Why does the bench have to be 16" deep? If you made it 18" deep you could line it up with the broom closet, and at least those two pieces could act as a unit.

Why isnt the broom closet 24" deep? Just to prevent the bench from being inset? There is nothing over top of it,so I am not sure this would be a problem, and the 24" depth is on the room side, while the 18" is toward the corner, so I don't think it will be alleviated by the shallower side anyway (*if its a problem and I don't know that it is).

Is there any reason not to make the broom closet and the pantry closet the same width (21 each or 18 each) or more than 3" different, I think the near miss of sizes might bug me or create an optical illusion effect, I would want them either the same or distinctly different in width.

Thanks---yes, bench could certainly be 18" with no trouble. Only shelves and hooks above it, and those can be sized to be whatever. On the widths, we had originally been trying to pick up every extra inch since space is tight on that wall, and I was a bit concerned about door conflicts between a deeper closet and the backdoor, but that could probably be sorted out. We needed 21" for the broom closet to fit our vacuum cleaner---but 24"d x 18"w should be comparable to 18"d x 21"w. I'll see if flipping them helps with the aesthetics---thanks!

I think you need to take a deep breath and get out your crayons. To me, the biggest problem is that the elevation doesn't show the bench or anything.

Is the bench something you already own? Something you're going to buy? Something you're going to have made?

I actually think the 16" is a good depth. That way it's recessed on both sides.

If you don't already have it, and if there's room in your budget for this, but consider having it made of cabinetry to match the rest of the kitchen, including a cabinet wood back on the wall. The base could have stiles but open panels as a place to stash shoes and boots, or else have a big drawer that pulls out. Also, do a bridge cabinet across the top, or a bracketed shelf with hooks under. Bright cushions would complete it nicely. In my mind's eye I see red and white wide stripes. All of that would be classic, functional, and tie the two cabinet sides together.

Have you considered making the broom closet 18" wide and 24" deep, running the bench across at 18" deep (baskets, drawers or shelves underneath) and put a shorter 12" deep cabinet above to create some continuity? Put the hooks below that.

You would have to decide how to run the crown at the top. I have a recessed cabinet in the center of my hutch and the 3" recess wasn't enough for a return, so the crown just runs straight across. The recessed part is an open bookshelf and it has a valance set inside the crown, so it almost looks like a double crown there.

A utility cabinet that size would actually be a bit larger than the 21x18. I'd be happy with 18, but mine is 12" wide. It works for us, but that is on a frameless cabinet. Wouldn't work with a frame or inset.

Posted and then read about the vacuum.

Thanks! So here's my (very, very bad!) version of crayon on this---basically, what we've been envisioning for this space. It does look a bit more workable with this added in, though I'm still having trouble getting my head around it. I hadn't thought about the cabinets above, though, so I'll explore that more....just not sure it's in the budget, at least for now. We do plan to have simple crown moulding and would paint it to match the white cabs, and I've been pushing for beadboard behind the mudroom area (which is what we found behind the built-in that was put there in the 1930s), though DH is not a fan of that plan. But it could be nice to tie it all together.

Well, I think you did a great job on the crayoning! Love the hat! If you find room in the budget for some cabinetry, I think you'll get the most visual bang for the buck to use it for the bench, even if it's a freestanding bench that matches the cabinets.

I love the color and the hat too. What is bothering me though is that you have dirty shoes and coats right next to the pantry and fridge. While I understand the desire for such a spot and near the door, I'm not sure I like it right on top of food storage and preparation and left open. I don't tend to be a kitchen prude, so I if it bothers me even a little, I question whether other folks would be really bothered by it. Just suggesting you consider the issue.

Can your pantry and utility be 72/30 tall so they line up with the cabinet above the fridge and other uppers?

I would like the beadboard back. I have it on my two open shelves.

Thanks! Yes, the cabinets actually do all line up in the specs but not in the perspective, for some reason. But it's a 69"/33" split on all three.

We have a pretty small space (and house) so we don't have too much flexibility on the mudroom adjacency issue, but I was hoping having the solid 24" deep wall with pantry and fridge opening the other direction would help divide the spaces. The other wall has windows that fill most of the space, so it was hard to figure out a good mudroom space over there (especially as we also want a kitchen table on that side somewhere).

What we actually have now is a 4" deep wall between the two rooms, so we could technically keep that, but it limits the placement of the cabinets and refrigerator. (In the plan, it lines up with the edge of the cooler closest to the eating area---it's currently two separate rooms with an arched doorway between.) We could lose the 4" somewhere in there, but we'd have to smush the fridge one direction and stick the pantry in the mudroom, in that case.

The last thing we could do is put the broom closet and pantry next to one another, and stick the bench all the way in the corner---but when I practiced doing this with our current setup, it seemed very awkward since our door opens into the kitchen and blocks that area when it's open. I imagined ending up with coats and bags on the table instead, having to close the door, and *then* putting everything away, which didn't seem like a great plan...but possibly I should reexamine it and see.

Thanks, as always!

Just going to say this - the coats and hooks will use up part of the depth. So the 18" deep becomes 8-10" of available seat. A child will be able to perch on the edge, but it won't be necessarily nice for an adult. You have chairs at the table within handy reach - so consider letting the bench behind the door go.

The same kind of comment about the coat hooks, an adult coat will cover over the kid level hooks. Maybe side by side instead of over and under. When the kids get a bit taller, you can move theirs up.

I think you're in california, but mittens, garden gloves, spare keys, phones and chargers, off season boots, umbrellas? Baskets for storage under the bench level? Where would a child's backpack go?

I had thought about a high cabinet too - off season gear or for more general storage. The mudroom is 42" wide, but mostly uses only the first 65" from the floor.

I know it might be an artifact of the drawing program, but consider NOT doing the double sided toekicks that go around the corner of the cabinets - it makes them look funny!

The other thing it might pay to remember is everyone has to come in, go by the mudroom and the last one in has to close the door before anyone can access the mudroom. Do not be surprised if it becomes common to use the table as the primary drop zone.

have you considered making the "mud room" into closed storage, instead of a bench and hooks? If you did the tall cabinets all across and made them the same depth, it would be nice looking visually and you could make whichever cab you wanted into the "coat closet", so you wouldn't have to worry about the door being open and not being able to use the space.

Personally, I think no matter where the bench area winds up, people are going to gravitate to the table area first. Just seems like there will be more room over there, especially if you have multiple people coming in at the same time.

There is no reason not to make the bench 24" deep if its flanked by 24" cabinets. That would allow for the depth of the coats.

I can understand wanting to have a spot to sit right inside the door, especially if you are one of those households that tries not to wear outside shoes indoors. I know a lot of people who will lean on the wall or whatever right inside the front door, even if there is a chair within 8 feet. The less they track in the house the better, even if its only a few feet.

The door swing against the bench area is the biggest thing pushing people towards the table since it blocks the door. It's a bigger budget item, but I was looking at that window and door and thinking French doors or a door by the window to create a similar feel -- faux French doors. LOL You could have the door swing the other way.

I was also thinking of doors to close it off when you weren't using the area -- sliders would allow you to keep it open when you need jackets or shoes to dry, but allow you to keep it closed if you have folks over for dinner. The measurements would need some tweaking or some customizing on the doors.

Are you a shoes off family? I think the mudroom will just add clutter to your beautiful kitchen. I have 2 kids and the present closet was always a mess - let alone out in the open.

For our new mudroom I'm taking Ikea tall cabinets and raising them off the floor about 15" or so. Underneath the cabinets each person will have a basket on wheels for their shoes. Once full, shoes go to their room. Coats and backpacks will be stored behind closed doors in the cabinets. I don't want to see that mess or clutter. You could do something similar. You have a chair with the table near by if someone needs to sit down. Most of my kids' shoes are slip ons anyways.

Thanks!

Yes, we're actually getting french doors priced for that space too, although expecting them to come in too high for the budget. (Unfortunately that project would necessarily be linked to significant re-stuccoing and a new deck to meet code, which would be lovely, but $$.) Would having the door swing to the breakfast area instead be awkward? We also have a screen door, so during the summer the main door is often left open, so we like having it mostly out of the way now, but certainly not wedded to it (and it's getting replaced one way or another as part of the remodel, so we could switch the swing).

DH would love doors to close the area off---this was a long debate---so I'll have to revisit that idea and see. I'm just worried that I won't be good about putting everything away if the hooks aren't right there. The other challenge in rainy seasons (~6 months of the year) is that this is where wet dogs, wet people, muddy boots, etc. all come into the house, so they need to be taken off or toweled down before they get into the main part of the kitchen. That was part of the appeal of shelves, since we could put towels there and grab them quickly.

The one thing we really, REALLY want to avoid is the table being the go-to spot for things, since that's what we have right now and it's rendered the table all but unusable. We have a built-in baking cabinet where the bench is right now, and do use it for garden tools, etc., as well. Trying to stop mixing uses like that, since it's a fairly regular occurrence to have flour (or worse, molasses!) on the coats (though in fairness, the order right now is door-baking counter-coat hooks-main kitchen, which is asking for it!)

I'll ask about the toe kicks, though I think in general the cabinets shown are very hypothetical, which does make it tricky to visualize.

The bench could be enclosed with doors to hide the shoes, if necessary. I still think the bench is better than tracking across the kitchen in dirty shoes, small as it is.

If a pile of shoes is going to lie in front of enclosed cabinets anyway, it makes more sense to have a bench to tuck them under out of the way, open or closed.

If the reality of the situation is that this corner acts as mudroom, you might as well make it functional: something that looks pretty but doesn't work--well that will be annoying.

In an ideal situation you could have a separate mudroom, and you don't have the space, so you might as well make the best of what you have. I know people who have removed the 3x5 vestibules in their row houses to open up the space and when they realize that it just dumps everyone right in the LR and there is a pile of shoes there...they wish they had the awkward vestibule back.

@palimpsest, the funny part is that we actually do have that perfect little vestibule at our front entrance---you come in off of the front porch and there's a built in bench with storage and a little alcove for coats right in front of you, with the living room off to one side and the dining room off to the other!

Fast forward 100 years, though, and there's no more streetcar down the street and no more produce and butcher shop half a block away, so we either bike or drive to get places, both of which mean we end up in the garage and come in through the backdoor. We have the original plans for the house, and it was supposed to be an open back laundry porch and a breakfast nook. In the 1930s they were combined and converted to a baking area and laundry room, and then finally the previous owner pulled the laundry out and made it a baking area and breakfast room again....but it was never quite intended as the main entrance! Ah, well.

This is expensive but...
a little overhang for the backdoor and the backdoor that swings out instead of swinging into the kitchen. Even if you don't do the overhang on the swinging out door may give you a bit more of function.

We have overhangs on all 3 of our doors. When we remodeled, that was a place where we were willing to spend the money. We live in Seattle, rain 6 months of the year. The shoes often stay out on the covered porch.

We actually do have a little overhang now (not huge, but covers the mini-porch there enough to leave things on it in the rain) so that might be a possibility---though I'd need to measure to see if we can clear the porch rail with an out-swing door.

The major hangup we hit (and the reason we ruled it out earlier) was that we also have a screen door (and like/use it), and right now the screen is out-swing and the door itself is in-swing, so I'm not sure how those would play together if the main door was out-swing too. Do you have a screen door on yours? If so, how did you handle that? Thanks!

(Never mind; I realized this isn't feasible on other fronts either, since we need the ability to have the main door open while the screen door is closed for dog containment and general not-obviously-openness given that our back entrance is visible from multiple yards, so that wouldn't be possible with an out-swing. Ah, well.)

Came up with something that might work (though I'm not sure it's something we can afford!) and wondered if this sounds feasible:

What if we were to put two pocket doors (like those on an entertainment cabinet, the kind that fold and slide into the sides---not sure what these are called?) around the mudroom area, and size this to match the pantry and broom closet (so 18-18-18-18 or 21-21-21-21)? When closed, these would form one consistent wall of cabinets, but when the mudroom doors were open---and they could stay open semi-permanently, somewhat like the swinging door---there would be an 18" deep bench and hooks inside rather than a true "cabinet"---so the doors would just be hiding that area.

Above, there would be upper cabinets consistent across the four panels that would be "real" cabinets.

A variation could keep the pantry cabinet at 24" deep, but push the doors and the broom closet back to 18" deep (so the bench would need to go back to 16" to clear the doors.)

Would this actually work? Would it make any sense or just look strange if so? Away from the computer with Illustrator so can't do a mockup right now....but it's obviously on the brain. :)

Thanks!

I'm thinking that wouldn't work -- tracks in or the the floor get full of dirt, its still behind the door and they doors could be become blocked if some youngish person crammed too much stuff on the hooks.

Possibly sliders from the top - maybe instead of have a cabinet based broom closet ? Build knock together 12-15 in space for brooms, 15-18" floor to ceiling junk storage shelves (perhaps use the lower cubbies with a per person laundry basket for individual junque), rest for coats, gloves, bench. I think it would mostly be out from behind the door at that point.

If the person's stuff ends up on the table, it gets dumped into their basket. Honestly, if their basket gets full, I'd dump it on their bed. Be so much easier than trying to be the enforcer.