Why would you call anyone an idiot in the first place?

Its a "friendly reminder" and these things are parceled out sometimes when a moderator feels that there is something contentious going on in a thread (or that went on in a thread). They are not applied consistently.

I don't recall your post and it's since been deleted, so this is a response to your questions above.

''Idiot'' and ''ass'' are rude. I don't know you, but I doubt you would use those terms in a face-to-face conversation with a casual acquaintance. I don't see why anyone would think s/he should be less courteous to someone in an internet conversation. There's a human being on the receiving end of those insults.

Name-calling rarely serves any useful purpose in furthering a discussion. One's point can be made in polite terms just as easily.

Most sites have some sort of user agreement, which specifies the terms by which the site can be used. If someone doesn't agree, s/he is free to go elsewhere.

Since your warning apparently appeared several days after your post, I would guess that someone reported you and it took several days for the GW administrators to check out the complaint.

If you or anyone want to engage in ''schoolyard name calling,'' then go to a schoolyard. Or don't. Most people don't want their children to learn such ill manners.

Just my opinions, which I hope were politely expressed. Anyone is free to disagree.

So much for the recent thread deploring snarky behavior.

Kellied,

I called him an idiot because I thought he was being an idiot.

It really was just that simple. I also thought he was giving someone dangerous advice that could actively hurt someone.

However, I'm not debating that people shouldn't call someone an idiot. I gladly admit that the best universe is the one where idiots can wander freely; Much like cattle on the range.

I am not defending my post. I'm just questioning the response to it.

As warmfridge said, someone reported it, then you got the warning, hence the delay in action. These forums are not actively moderated - last I knew, only one person in charge of thousands of daily posts. So they depend on the honor system and on user reports of bad behavior, spam, abuse, etc.

Warmfride,

I'm glad for your post. For reference, here is that thread:

http://ths.gardenweb.com/forums/load/kitchbath/msg051142392123.html?52

My insults happen near the bottom.

I absolutely agree with you that I was rude. Absolutely agree. In fact, in this case, I wasn't accidentally rude. It was absolutely deliberate.

You are right that I wouldn't call someone an idiot that I was having a conversation with but an arguement? Maybe.

So your thoughts are that any rudeness at all, no matter what level, would make their response acceptable? Isn't it pretty reasonable to expect a group of adults to be able to handle or respond to rudeness on their own?

After all, when someone offends someone here we often see groups of people playing defense. Did that happen here? No. I'm thinking that the community itself was pretty self policing in this case.

What do you think?

Morgne,

I think you got it right, truth is an absolute defense. Big Brother? What are you going to do?

Warmfridge: couldn't agree more!

Everyone will on occasion be annoyed by other posters. But everyone has different criteria for these assessments, too (it's neither here nor there, but I for instance do not find Poster X particularly irritating and found your response to him rude rather than a relief).

If we all vented our spleen at will, it would be quite an unpleasant place to visit. Nobody is asking posters to refrain from "defending themselves" as you put it, but because we're all articulate adults I assume we are all able to respond to what we perceive as unwarranted claims/undue negativity/irritating posts without resorting to name calling.

Moderation at GardenWeb is indeed a bit random and arbitrary. Then again, it's a free forum and we're not paying for fair and timely arbitration. Participation is granted on the basis of agreeing to certain terms of service.

Honestly, I'd recommend just chalking it up to experience and moving along. :-)

Here is a link that might be useful: GardenWeb terms of service

Circus Peanut,

I'm glad for your comment. I agree that at will spleen venting would be a problem. :)

This is where I get weirded out by it:

When did adults lose the ability to self arbitrate? Yes, it's true. Name calling is negative. We are told that from childhood and it's an accurate statement. And yet, adults DO call names. That's part of what we do when we are upset.

I think of it like a party. I get into an arguement with someone I barely know and he says I don't know what I'm talking about and I say well yah but your an idiot. Not a graceful moment I'm sure. But the people at the party roll their eyes and offer me another beer and a tour of the back porch and it's a foolish incident, soon forgotten. When the other guy goes back for more later I blow it off and don't respond to him.

The same party but instead of letting the situation defuse as adults imagine the police called in. Or maybe a better assessment, the HOA - Home Owners Association. I get a form letter from them several days later. They've heard I used a negative word and that's not allowed here in this neighborhood.

What?

I do get where you're coming from, Morgne -- but I think ultimately the answer to "when did adults lose the ability to self-arbitrate?" is "when they are guests in someone else's home."

This isn't our house. It belongs to GardenWeb, and as hosts they can set whatever rules they choose. One might have philosophical differences with those rules, but by participating we have all agreed to abide by them.

I think you cannot compare an on-line forum with a live party. The normal social norms are easily forgotten when you are a mostly anonymous poster who is not looking anyone in the eye. So, forums like this set much more conservative rules to remind people to be polite. All in all, a form letter gently reminding you of the house rules and telling you to contact them if there is a problem, is really not very bad. Hardly the same as calling the police. I'd actually liken it to offering you a beer and a tour of the back porch.

ditto what circus peanut just said.

Morgne: "I think of it like a party. I get into an arguement with someone I barely know and he says I don't know what I'm talking about and I say well yah but your an idiot."
If the party is at my house and you're drinking my wine and eating my food and then insult another one of my friends, I might ask you to leave or at least try to redirect you to another conversation in another room. So, the forum is someone else's house and the server space and "air time" and time spent moderating are the host's wine and food. We are the guests.

The great thing about a party, or a forum, is you can walk away (literally or virtually) from someone you consider an idiot. Or you can respond, but maybe think of a more creative and less judgemental way to frame your response, thus rising above the idiocy you perceive in others.

Unlike a party conversation, responses online live on forever. To steal a line from The Social Network, "The Internet is written in ink, not pencil." To me that means we want to play nice.

I agree with you, Circuspeanut. In fact, your answer is why I haven't and don't plan on arguing with GW about it. Because you're right. It's their house.

And as several others have pointed out someone here probably complained and then GW had to look at the post and verify a name was called, and then by their own rules of etc had to send an email telling me not to. It didn't have much to do with anything. Just following the rules.

I'm not upset I got the email. I'm really not. If that is how GW deals then it's how GW deals.

Your thought is that adults lose the ability to self-arbitrate "when they are guests in someone else's home". I think it's a good answer but I fear that we are ALWAYS in someone else's home. If we meet at the park must an official be called to keep us from coming to blows?

I dunno. Maybe there are no good answers to this. SIGH. I appreciate your sharing your perspective.

It seems like basically what's being said is that GW members appreciate GW stepping in for them to keep the other people on the forum in line for them.

It's interesting to hear. Thanks!

I'm curious if any insults set off moderators, or if maybe they have a tracker on swear words. Maybe @$$ set off an alarm. And while I don't condone name calling - surely there's always a better way to phrase things - I can see how one would resort to name calling to make a point in the case of safety.

''It seems like basically what's being said is that GW members appreciate GW stepping in for them to keep the other people on the forum in line for them.''

I don't know that they're saying the appreciate GW stepping in for them (though that may be the case), so much as they accept GW's right to do so.

if i got my panties all twisted into a wad and made the mistake of calling someone an idiot, along with other rude comments i wouldn't come back and cry foul for being called on it.

if other members choose to contact you privately to congratulate you for "speaking up" that's their business. contrary to what you may believe this doesn't justify bad form or grant you special permission to chastise other posters who you yourself have deemed inadequate.

i've been here for more years than i care to count and have never read the user agreement either. but i can guess i wouldn't be doing myself or anyone else any favors by behaving badly.

so to answer your question, no. i don't find it "weird" that you received an email from a moderator. but i do wonder why you ask.

itsallaboutthefood => nicely put.

FWIW (in the what's GW's plan dept.), I got called on the carpet for waxing on about the religiousness of Salvation Army. The topic was where do you give things away and I was trying to point out that they were a far cry from non-secular. GW nixed the comment as "political".

They've been tolerant of recent economic discussions, however.

Morgne - I'm sure it will annoy you to hear this (because (a) it's facile, (b) you know it already and (c) it's critical of you), but you will be more effective in transferring your annoyance and alarm at a potentially dangerous saying by staying away from controversial words. What happens is you swing focus on your language rather than the content of your words. Like it or not, you do hurt feelings with mean words, and you do offend some; others are just embarrassed and divert their eyes/attention. Still others are defensive and let nothing in - in the end it's just inefficient and counterproductive.

As well as unpleasant and impatient.

We all say stupid things some of the time, perhaps all of the time. Best to say nothing at all or if safety is really a concern, then zero in on that so as not to lose the message.

And let me please take this opportunity to assure you that I love reading your posts -- almost always! Fortunately I missed the "idiot" one; that would have bothered me. But in general, I personally think you sound very wise and knowledgeable and helpful. I hope you'll actually just turn this around and become even more wise and more helpful and more knowledgeable! Thank you for your participation.

I read this thread and have 2 main responses.

1. There should be no need to chastise adults for name calling, because as adults, we should refrain from name calling. Simple.

2. By reposting a link to that thread, you not only show no understanding that your calling names lessens people's respect for you, but you also show that you have not understood that doing so, in effect, calls the name all over again. You want people to trust your judgement on one hand but then show another lapse of judgement.

"''It seems like basically what's being said is that GW members appreciate GW stepping in for them to keep the other people on the forum in line for them.''

I don't know that they're saying the appreciate GW stepping in for them (though that may be the case), so much as they accept GW's right to do so."

Exactly. I should have rephrased your question, Morgne: adults lose their right to self-arbitrate when they demonstrate their inability to self-regulate. Name-calling is one of those instances.

It's not our burden as forum members to socialize one another - that's not why we're here. It's incumbent on each of us alone to recognize when our adult behavior has slipped. If someone can't achieve that, well, that's where moderation steps in.

1.
The first post, starting the thread, shows an attitude that
1.a.) does not repent or soften anything (unless we project that implicitly).
1.b.) derides Gardenweb's administration.
1.c.) wants to initiate discussion about an excerpt of the email received.
And there is more.

After 36 minutes, three responses have been posted.

2.
The next post from the OP, answering a rhetorical question, was used as an opening to show a little bad behavior all over again. ("ideally... idiots wander free" and once again "questioning" GW's response.) This could have been an opening to show a clearer new position, but instead it showed a will to maintain a hurtful side again.

3.
The next new post from the OP, answering a detailed post, was an opening to show bad behavior all over again. Here the victim was identified clearly, and a case was made for crowd justice instead of GW direction.

4.
The next new post from the OP, answering a detailed post, was an opening to bring up the analogy with someone being at a party. A defending argument for the approach adopted so far, not a change in any way.

Discussion about this analogy takes place. Three posts. About 30 minutes.

5.
The next new post from the OP summarizes.

--

The next three responses deal with the thread starter post and its attitude. The thread goes quiet overnight. One more post comes in this morning. Now, my post.

--

Socially, we all have to take direction when it is given.

--

It may be that the thread starter composes thoughts all too quickly. One clue is the title line containing spelling mistakes and a pun that is hard to decipher. Perhaps write out a difficult response in another software first. Then copy and paste.

--

I shall now state for the record that many GW readers now know a great deal more about the coolness of a ton of stone than they ever wanted to know.

--

Hth

Yawn.

I find it interesting that the OP is defending his/her right to criticize however s/he wishes, as impulsively as s/he wishes, but is unsettled to be on the receiving end of criticism and disagreeing opinions. Teenagers do that all the time.

The title line is bugging me, I can't help it. It's "pejorative". Spelling mistakes happen to everyone, no criticism intended.

Davidrol,
Sometimes the classiest thing one can do is just keep his mouth shut.

The spelling police missed that it is rightly spelt prerogative not perogative.
Captain Obvious says "Your welcome!"
I got that same friendly reminder about 3 years back when I commented that a Hot Topics forum whackjob had Borderline Personality Disorder. So sensitive!!!
Casey

Well, we're all sensitive to different things: *both* spelling mistakes bug me deeply! And truthfully, the GW hand-slap rankles, justified or no.

akchicago: yup. Got one of em teens myself: so maddeningly irrational! Drives you nuts. (it's basically impulsiveness; not taking the time to think through consequences, rational or otherwise).

Case in point...