Lol!! That is funny! Perfectly reasonable, what could he not understand?

Wow! I haven't posted here in years... I just lurk from time to time, but this one drew me out!
Thanks for posting this!!! I always do all of my own painting. I KNOW I can do a better, more detail oriented job than any "professional" painter I've seen. Now, I know there are good ones and even great ones [like Brushworks :)] out there, but I think they are rare.
Anyway, after reading the ugly, nasty responses of the other painters, it gives me a good reminder not to grow weak and hire one of them. Guess we see what some of them REALLY think of us! There are 2 paint stores that I will no longer patronize in my area, SW and Porter, because of their superior attitude toward homeowners and DIYers. The local BM guy, who is fabulous, says that it is because they cater to the professional, union painters and they see DIYers as "scabs"... they hate us.
Oh, and I see that we unreasonable, cheap, picky "B"s can't possibly have thought of multiple colors without a decorator? Sure. I bet she IS a member of this board. I hope she sees this and fires his butt!
Thanks for the heads-up (and for the vent... I guess I needed that!)

Janetta - I know, I couldn't believe she was thought of as a "B" because she picked so many paint colors.

Laurie

Not at all funny, imo. Such babies. Write up a quote for the work involved, like a man and a professional. If you don't want to work so 'hard' changing brushes, rollers, touching up (make me laugh), don't take the job. I really wish these contractors who don't like dealing with women or decor would just find other work. Personally, I don't want to deal with *them* and their bad attitudes and poor work ethics either.

The good ones are priceless.

"Man that pisses me off jus reading that. This is a prime example of the b....y homeowner benjamin moore lover righteous know it all nickel and dimin b....."

benjamin moore lover, that's an insult, right ?

That is rich. I often feel like the people I hire get pissed off when I do make it super easy for them. "Um, yes - I would like for the grout lines to be straight... I did not realize that I needed to specify that in advance."

Love what spring-meadow said "Write up a quote for the work involved, like a man and a professional." Perfect.

Ha, mitch, lol!

OK, I can see both sides here...

Those were some mighty gross generalizations from a group of supposed professionals and initially made me raise a brow, not to mention the hair on the back of my neck, both as a DYI-painter and one who has a strong preference in colors (as well as shades of white, gray and black) and sheens!

That said, you have to know that they most likely come across those kind of homeowners quite regularly. Those of us that hang on this board are quite out of the ordinary, not your run of the mill, DIY homeowner. Other than my mom and my sister and me, I only know one other person who would paint multiple samples on several walls of a room to decide wall color. Well, and you guys.

For the most part, I think the woman was being chastised, not because she chose 11 colors, but because she was not expecting to have to pay extra for the color changes and was playing one contractor against another.

For the most part, I think the woman was being chastised, not because she chose 11 colors, but because she was not expecting to have to pay extra for the color changes and was playing one contractor against another.

Agreed.

Wow, this caught my eye! Very interersting to see the comments from their perspective.

I had to go back and see what I had given our painters for our remodel. Turns out it was 11 colors! And this wasn't for the whole house (LR, old FR, one upstairs BR, and entire basement with BR and bath were unchanged.) So maybe I like colors! Also, we let DD and DS pick their own colors for their bedrooms and bathrooms, so those were of course different than my choices.

I had picked out all BM colors and requested the low-VOC line. First the painters pushed back and said they use Sherwin-Williams. (They did not tell me that BEFORE I picked out colors!) I had a friend with a great eye for color help me; it took us some time and no way was I going to pick all new colors. So I told them to just mix the colors I wanted in the SW line, but it had to be low VOC.

Then they moaned a bit about the number of colors because they have to switch rollers. I was like, OK, I'm paying for all the paint, and I'll go buy you a bunch of extra rollers! Who cares?! I finally told the GC look, this is what I want. These guys can do it or you can hire someone else. And oh by the way, maybe they should be grateful I'm paying more for low VOC and protecting their health a little!

So, I gave them this list in a table format, and I went into the rooms with 2 colors and put post its on the walls so they would know exactly what colors went where. I really tried to make it easy for them, and IMO I'm also pretty nice to work for -- I'll bring you lunch and snacks and whatever, and I understand the up charges... but don't expect me to paint my whole house builder's white!

My list... I guess it was more than what they expected and made me one of the "high maintenance" women in their view.

All trim, upstairs and down; AF-15; Steam
Dining room; 1447; Amethyst sky
Kitchen; 035; Baked clay
Family room; HC-45; Shaker Beige
Laundry area, laundry hall; HC-45; Shaker Beige
First floor powder room; HC-45; Shaker Beige
Upstairs hall; AF-60; Peau de soie
Master bedroom, east & west walls, ceiling; AF-60; Peau de soie
Master bedroom, north & south walls; AF-150; Cotswold
Master hallway; AF-60; Peau de soie
Sitting area, east, west walls, ceiling, door area; AF-60; Peau de soie
Sitting area, south wall (small), north wall; AF-150; Cotswold
Master bath, ceiling, north, south walls, cabinet wall; AF-60; Peau de soie
Master bath east wall (counter wall), west wall (doorway wall); AF-410; Lapland
Front/southwest bedroom (the one with WIC); 1339; Misted rose
Hall bath 2 (closer to master); 160; Soft marigold
Hall bath 3; 1069; Twilight gold
Northeast bedroom (faces backyard); 1146; Harvest bronze

I feel as tho I can speak to being high-maintenance. :)

Painters don't mind high-maintenance as long as it's organized and decisive and it's understood that high-maintenance comes with an appropriate price tag.

It's crazy indecisive chaos and cheapskate that costs every trade/professional involved time and therefore money - no one likes to work for free and everyone's time is valuable.

It's not the people who want 11 colors that are the problem. The problem clients are the ones who want 11 colors, three gloss levels, patch and prep (think new drywall) out the wazoo, and premium paints for the same price as the quote from the blo-n-go painter using the cheapest flat builder's beige cut with water taboot.

Wow...that was an interesting read...LOL

chicagoans - Do you remember what the charge was for each color change? Did you ever get the impression the painter thought you were a pain for choosing so many colors? I honestly never thought a contractor would be annoyed by it until I read this post. I remember when I had my entryway and bathroom tiled. I told the tile color that I wanted a particular grout color in the bathroom and a different one in the entryway. He gave me the strangest look. I guess most people just go with what the tile guy picks.

Laurie

For the most part, I think the woman was being chastised, not because she chose 11 colors, but because she was not expecting to have to pay extra for the color changes and was playing one contractor against another.

Agreed.

I feel as tho I can speak to being high-maintenance. :)

Painters don't mind high-maintenance as long as it's organized and decisive and it's understood that high-maintenance comes with an appropriate price tag.

It's crazy indecisive chaos and cheapskate that costs every trade/professional involved time and therefore money - no one likes to work for free and everyone's time is valuable.

It's not the people who want 11 colors that are the problem. The problem clients are the ones who want 11 colors, three gloss levels, patch and prep (think new drywall) out the wazoo, and premium paints for the same price as the quote from the blo-n-go painter using the cheapest flat builder's beige cut with water taboot.

Hey FC, and thanks for the props and yep, that's what I was getting at ;-) Reminiscent of another profession, eh? I'm an AD/GD by profession and IIRC that's in your background.

ITA with you funcolors. I think the OP isn't very experienced. If he was he'd have pointed out to her the extra labor involved in changing out brushes, rollers, and paint. Then I believe the client would have easily understood. It's HIS fault for not clarifying everything she wanted and how much extra time he'd have to spend on it.

I guess I lucked out with our painters. We had two sets of them, one for the walls, the other for the trim, bookshelves and cabinets.

Four different colors in all. As I explained what I want all I got was a "Yes ma'am." If any of them had the slightest question they'd always come to me first instead of assuming.

We were so impressed with their meticulous work we gave all of them a cash tip.

Now if they'd just come back and change the color of one of my rooms I'll be very happy! lol

I'm not a contract painter, but I do paint. And, I have been really lucky as far as customers go, but every once in a while I get a doozie! You would be very surprised by what people try to get for free. And, I don't mean "regular" people, I mean people who live in million dollar houses. I can't tell you how many times I've heard "well, couldn't you just..." Or, "while you're doing that, can you do..." One of the funniest one was while I was painting a 2-story bathroom, the client said to me (and I quote) "since you made those vents up there dirty, could you please clean them before you leave?". Good grief.

It's easy to rag on the contractors (I do it, too and I did get a chuckle out of that post), but as many have already pointed out, sometimes it does work both ways.

I've been a member of that site for a while!

From MY side of the (retail) desk, I get to chuckle at BOTH Painter & Homeowner sometimes!!

Some painters are VERY good...some....SUCK.
There are "prissy" Homeowners AND prissy painters.
Better painters realize there's more than one paint line...AND COLOR...out there, and that customers are getting more sophisticated.
Some HO's want everything for nothing, and don't realize what a professional job would look like...or cost!

Many HO's should specify in the contracts EXACTLY THE BRAND/SERIES OF PAINT TO BE USED. Many painters are notorious for matching the color in their preferred (and often cheaper...) line.
For example:
If I wanted an FPE color "Tulip Red" used on some doors, and they ended up getting it "matched" into SW A100 (which probably couldn't be done anyway...), I'd raise HOLY H#LL, because the matched paint isn't HALF the quality!
But, again, HO's may not even realize they're getting screwed in these instances...

Faron

msrose:

Sorry just saw your question. I don't know what they charged me for color changes. I'd love to go back to those conversations and ask exactly what the charge is and why. (OK, new roller, time to change roller, I get it. But is a new roller plus a few minutes to change it really worth $145?!) And for the painters who charge the fee for every color more than 3 colors... Doesn't that just encourage people to hire a few different painters, or the same painter but to do just a few rooms at once? It seems like it would be better to do the whole job at one job site at one time, even if you have to change a brush every now and then.

Another thing that caught my eye from the paint forum postings: premier painter's response said "you'll be left with 21 gallons of open paint." Who did he mean - the painter? No way should the painter keep the paint! The HO is paying for the paint and no doubt will need it someday for touch ups to knicks, dings, etc. Unless the painter will charge only for the paint that was used (yeah, right) or the HO specifically asks him to take it, he should leave the leftover paint there.

I'm still mad at the guys who painted our finished basement many years ago. They took all the paint with them, leaving me nothing for touch ups! What are they going to do with that paint? They even hated the (deep red) color I used in the guest room, so they probably just threw the leftover paint away.

It seems to me that any professional who works in custom homes (rather than tract subdivisions) would be used to special requests.

You are so right and I would love to hear a professional painter's explanation for why the color change costs so much.

Laurie

In most situations, it's a case of painters don't throw away their rollers and brushes like DIYers typically do. They wash them - and dry them - and that takes time - it's work - it's labor. If you want the extra customization of multiple colors, you need to pay for it. Also, need to provide a suitable place with running hot & cold water on-site.

Some painter's brushes are older than their children and valued equally (probably not really but seems that way). Washing the brushes aren't tasks most are willing to delegate even if they have someone to delegate to - rollers, maybe. It's not like they have a dozen favorite brushes they like to use either.

Every color in a scheme brings work with it. Starting at the paint store. It takes "X" amount of time and labor to get multiple gallons of 3 or 4 colors mixed and out of the store. Every additional color means additional time and effort spent at the paint store and schleppin' it around too. The more colors, the more margin for mixing errors, etc. So when you think about it, it's not just a matter of switching brushes and rollers.

Implementing a complex color palette in a space is another aspect of added work because more colors means more junctures where different colors meet and that translates to complicated cut-in work, straight lines, etc. And just about guaranteed confused homeowners to deal with who aren't sure where color is suppose to start and stop - tweaks in color placement and distribution are a given with a lot of colors. Again, more time and work that's not free.

When you break it down and take an honest look at all that's involved, up-charges for additional colors after 3 or 4 is fair. $50 - $150 per color past 3 or 4 is in the *reasonable* ballpark depending on location.

If you can figure out a more efficient way to deal with a multi-color color scheme, then DIY is always an option too.

Funcolors: thank you for the explanation. It's not obvious to many homeowners; for example, I was thinking that a roller costs less that $5 or so, so where does the rest of the cost come from? Not all painters are willing to explain these things (or maybe they assume everyone knows that kind of thing), and that's when both sides get frustrated.

There's a big difference between $50 and $150, if you're going to multiply it by several paint colors. I wonder if that's regional, or just based on the painter?

In this economy, I wonder if some of the pros will find themselves needing to provide more explanations and be more flexible. People still want what they want, but fewer are willing to just hand over their wallets without knowing the details of what they're paying for.

Since I do the painting myself I never realized what actual costs could be to paint. ItâÂÂs a business and I understand why it costs money and can understand the upcharges. IâÂÂm just glad I can paint myself and only have 8â ceilings.

I got a chuckle out of the OP. He just seemed totally baffled like he never saw anyone pick that many colors before. He just needed to give a better and more specific quote for the work. Of course the rude comments below werenâÂÂt helpful to anyone.

I kind of spoke on behalf on the contractor, now let me voice the other side.

Many painters aren't good business people for many reasons one of which is not articulating very well what they do. An unexpected skill in my job is translator. I translate to the painter what the homeowner is "really saying", I translate to the homeowner what the painter is "really doing".

Many painters quote by "feel". They just know how much all things paint stuff should cost. Done it long enough they know how long it's going to take, how much paint, difficulty i.e. moving and protecting furnishings, setting up ladders & scaffolds, etc. Itemizing all that with prices can be tough for someone who doesn't relish articulating the finer details of what they do to begin with.

And you do have a point that I wholeheartedly agree with, many of them just assume that we all see what they see in terms of scope of work. I know I most certainly did not. Took me a while to understand all the layers and how they contribute to the bottom line.

$50 - $150 can be attributed to region, what's considered "standard" for a specific market. East coast costs compared to on-the-border costs where I am in the southwest almost always differ greatly.

Second biggest factor in determining just how much a bunch o'color is gonna cost you is difficulty in execution. You're paying for skill, not just labor (like washing brushes) when it comes to execution. Where do the colors change - 8ft, 10ft, 22ft ceilings?, how many transitions, and the actual colors. Transitioning midtones room to room is a lot easier than incorporating several dark accent walls in a sea of light Latte-colored walls.

When I spec color, I'm totally aware of just how is it going to get done, how much is it going to cost and do we have that kind of time and money to work with. Sometimes I have no choice but to come up with less complicated options.

So it all depends. And that's why a range of $50 -$150 is a good benchmark to reference in broad, non specific discussions like this one.

I enjoyed reading this post. I can see how the painter would be annoyed at all the paint color changes when he wasn't expecting that many paint colors. Obviously, there was a disconnect there, but now that he has the paint list, he has an opportunity to clean up the understanding/communication. I don't know if the HO was necessarily trying to get something for free. It is entirely possible that she is just not familiar with what is expected/costs, etc. On the flip side of this painter feeling like the HO is being unreasonable, I have experienced many situations where the contractor/sub tries to nickel and dime you for things that should reasonably be included. For example, when our electrician installed all of our lights (wo/ asking me how high/low I wanted them hung), and I asked him to adjust all the heights, he wanted to charge me $100 per light to readjust the heights. There were many times when we felt like subs saw our house and sized us up and were trying to make a little "extra" for themselves. So, I guess it goes both ways. Subs/Contractors feel like HO at times are trying to get a bit extra, but Subs/Contractors are just as guilty as trying to get a bit "extra" for themselves at times. Of course, this isn't in all situations, but it happens, and I don't think it's uncommon either way.

I will no longer patronize in my area, SW and Porter, because of their superior attitude toward homeowners and DIYers.

I won't go to our SW either. They kind of make me laugh when they try to be superior...but the young guys working in the store aren't as experienced at painting as little ol' me, so I dished it back the last time I went in there. Here's how my very last trip to SW went:

Me: Hi, I'd like Duration semi-gloss in Alabaster.
SW: What are you painting?
Me: Just finishing a project I started with Duration semi-gloss in Alabaster.
SW: What is it?
Me: Some trim work.
SW: You should use ProClassic. It's better.
Me: I don't like ProClassic. I'd like Duration, please.

more fussing about why I need ProClassic

Me: Well, I can go over to my guy at Benjamin Moore and he can just match Alabaster for me if you don't want to mix the Duration for me.
SW: We can match their colors.
Me: I know. And they can match yours. So, I guess I don't have to come here again.

He mixed my paint and I never went there again. Brats!