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Electrical Wiring

3-way wiring problem

16 years ago

In trying to correct a polarity problem in my garage's 110 VAC circuitry I've gone astray and can't seem to noodle my way out.

Between my house power and garage is a buried 14-3 cable w grd. Two 3-way switches (one in the house and one in the garage control on/off lighting. (Quite simple so far.) But in the garage there is also a constantly-on receptacle circuit, fed thru the same 14-3 cable. Previously this worked OK, but now I can't reconstruct a working diagram, (nor can I Google one that doesn't require a 4-wire cable).

If I use the red and black wires as "legs" between the 3-ways, there is no pole in the garage that is constantly "hot".

Seems to me I'm either unaware of something basic or the previous wirer did something illicit (perhaps accounting for my polarity problem).

I'd sure be grateful if someone could lead me out of the wilderness.

Comments (7)

normel
16 years ago
It was probably wired as a "Carter System" where only three wires are used and the 3-way switches alternate the hot and neutral legs. This has been illegal since the 30's.
spencer_electrician
16 years ago
The only diagram that does what you want is an ancient, unsafe way to make what you want happen. It involves alternating hot and neutral on the red wire and sending hot and neutral on the black and white. The diagram is now just for educational, trick question type scenarios.

You can either have a broken 3 way type set up. Send switched hot via the red wire from the house, bring the red to a switch in the garage. If Someone turns off the switch in the house, the light will not be able to be turned on by the switch in the garage.

You could also have a real 3 way set up by going to the smart home website and getting two of the insteon toggle relay switches. The one in the house only needs a hot and neutral. The one in the garage has the light on the load and also needs hot and neutral. They send signals down the line telling each other to turn off or on.
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fa_f3_20
16 years ago
I was going to suggest that you could tie the outlet to the hot that goes to the fixture. That way, you could have a proper 3-way circuit that meets code; the compromise is that the outlet only works when the light is on. But Spencer's idea is better.
fa_f3_20
16 years ago
P.S.: I had never heard of the "Carter system" before. Thanks for an entertaining bit of reading. Here's a Web article that exactly addresses the OP's situation.

Here is a link that might be useful: 3-Way Circuits, Right and Wrong
rjoh878646
16 years ago
I had that system feeding the light in the breezeway of the previous house I owned. House was built in 1947. I asked an electrician at work how it was wired and he drew it out and promptly destroyed it. I ended up rewiring the breezeway as I was in the process of rewiring the house.
dlcooper52
Original Author
16 years ago
Thanks all, for clearing this up. I found a "Carter" diagram and it now all makes perfect sense.

I started into this because of getting a shock, and it's clear how that can happen with this (1947) wiring arrangement.

I may try Spencer's wireless relay suggestion. Leviton has a 2 switch kit for under $30. However, fa_f3_20's suggestion of tying lighting in with outlets is a scheme I hadn't thought of and would save $ and effort at small sacrifice.

Again, thanks all. Knew I could could on the goodness of some friendly strangers.
joefixit2
16 years ago
Wire it up hot all the time and put a motion sensor on the light.

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