YUP! She is delusional! She really, honestly does not see what the problems are. Like Love's SS's BM, she ACTUALLY thinks all of the problems have nothing to do with her, even though SHE causes them.

This woman is weird!

My guess is that she doesn't "own" responsibility for any of her son's problems & she just wants somebody to get her where she has to be (solve her problem).

Maybe she's not a really bright bulb, but maybe she's a narcissist;
those people are very destructive to other people's lives.

I wish you all the best.

Of course he does not have to drive her anywhere at all. She can get a taxi if she is afraid to drive. She is nuts, I wonder if she is on meds or maybe using something, seriously. DH NEVER has to drive her anywhere even to a hospital. TAXI, or public bus.

Ditto Ashley. The woman is delusional. She really reminds me of Ima's SD's BM.

Do you think she will even show for the class??? I mean, if your DH won't drive her, what WILL she do? ;)

Thanks! BM called herself last night (DH did not answer nor call back); she left an annoyed sounding voice mail just saying to call her. Poor SS; I cannot imagine what it is like for him because DH and I get all jittery and nervous when she calls; there is absolutely no telling what will be coming.

Sylvia, I looked up narcissism, and it sent a chill down my spine. "...the narcissist sees his children as extensions of his self with no real individual identity or rights....Narcissism also makes people envy the accomplishments of others; the success of others is perceived as stealing the narcissist's "rightful" rewards or possessions....has a sense of entitlement, i.e. unreasonable expectations of especially favorable treatment or automatic compliance with his or her expectations...lacks empathy, i.e. is unwilling to recognize or identify with the feelings and needs of others"

Maybe that's not what it is, but it definitely is the way she acts - and by all accounts, the behavior of a narcissist is incredibly damaging to children. Poor SS.

Urgh. BM called eight times, I think it was, yesterday, and relative called twice. DH did not answer nor respond; he'd already said No, quite definitely, once and felt that that was enough, and did not want to get drawn into some argument about why he should/could/would drive her; plus it wouldn't be fair to SS because they were out Christmas shopping. So, she finally just left a message saying that she would be here half an hour before class.

Well, she was, but DH and SS were not. They were up and gone to breakfast and then off to class; I was here because sick pet's meds are due right in the middle of the time frame. I was so hoping she'd see the car gone and just leave, but she came to the door and stood there crying (literally) at me. I was polite but told her I'm not involved in this, they were gone, and I can't help her if I wanted to (I have no idea where the place is other than the neighborhood it's in). She kept asking how she was supposed to get there, she didn't know the city (that's why they sent directions, I think) and what was she supposed to do?

I just kept thinking of my mom, who had married with the plan that she would be a housewife her whole life, and got dumped in a city we hadn't lived in but a year or two, states away from any family, with three young kids and no work experience - AND, during a brief gap in our state's alimony so she didn't get any (just CS). She worked three part-time jobs at the same time for a while, I remember, and we had a couple of years of food from the dented-can store and thrift store clothes. She did what she had to do, and she would have cut her arm off before she would have cried to my SM.

I'm going to call her (my moms) and tell her how much I love her and admire her, I think.

BM no-showed at class and is now automatically in contempt, and everything (mediation etc.) is pushed back in time. She sent DH a text telling him that she forgives him. DH said his class, at least, was actually thought-provoking and pretty good.

Off to do holiday stuff! Fa-la-la-la-la! I hope you all are more prepared for the holidays than I am this year; wonder if it's too late to convert and celebrate Christmas on January 6?

"She forgives him."

Narcissists, control freaks, & abusers all do this.

I hope you & your mom had a good visit, & enjoy your Christmas stuff!

just had a thought:
so often, narcissists, control freaks, & abusers are all the same person.

able bodied person should be able to locate places in unfamiliar areas, get address and google directions, or hire a cab and tell your driver directions, he will locate a place. Now of course if you truly do not want to go there, then of course pretend you are not able to. I am glad SS stays home for Christmas, by the way what is happening with older SS, does he still live at moms and if yes how does he cope?

"...the narcissist sees his children as extensions of his self with no real individual identity or rights....Narcissism also makes people envy the accomplishments of others; the success of others is perceived as stealing the narcissist's "rightful" rewards or possessions....has a sense of entitlement, i.e. unreasonable expectations of especially favorable treatment or automatic compliance with his or her expectations...lacks empathy, i.e. is unwilling to recognize or identify with the feelings and needs of others"

Yep, that shoe fits SD's BM. It also fits my DIL too.

It sounds very much like both of them to revert back to being nice when they think it will result in consequences being dropped. I mean, how can you let them throw me in jail when I am out shopping to get your grandson a present. I'm being nice, why can't YOU? That is their way of trying to turn it around on you to make YOU the bad guy for refusing their kindness or reasonable offer. "what? you won't give me a ride to the class & go shopping after? How can you do that to me? I'm just trying to be cooperative, isn't THAT what the class is all about? Isn't it better for our son to get along & do these things?" When all along they know you are going to say no. I don't even think they want you to say yes because when you say no, they look like the injured victim... after all, they were trying to be nice/get along, etc. What's YOUR problem?

I raised my kids for many years single handed, without child support, working multiple jobs.. sometimes without a car. When BM moved 3 hours away to be with her BF, the 1st weekend she was to take SD, she asked me to pack some of her clothes because she had boxed all SD's things up & put them in storage & it was too much to go digging through them. So, I packed a bag for her. Then she called to get directions to our house... she had been there several times & knew where it was. I told her to google it. She showed up ten minutes later. Now, I see she was trying to set me up to say no to the clothes or no to the address. She made a big deal of calling DH to tell him how awful I am for telling her to google it... "Why can't Ima just tell me? Is that too much to ask?" She's done that several times over the years. I totally agree that these women cause so much damage to the kids that must be subjected to them. If we knew then what we know now, DH says he would have demanded supervised or no visitation. BM has caused more harm (emotionally) to SD and we are clueless about how to get help for her. We've tried counselors.. SD would lie to the counselors or BM told the last one off & threatened him.

The only way to deal with mentally illed person like your H's xw is to set boundaries exactly like he did. NO means NO, and not repsonse to phone calls. Now she knows you all mean BUSINESS when you say something.

Congrats to your H for doing the right thing.

I had forgotten that the very last conversation between DH and BM, before all this, was the one where BM was screaming "You need to TELL your son there won't BE no f***ing Christmas here, there won't BE no f***ing Santa, because you take all my money, and you need to tell him that!" (Why, she already had told him that, except for the no Santa part - apparently that was being saved up as a special surprise for Christmas morning.)

Then suddenly it was all "Let's do this together because I need something" again.

Shakti, this is really hard for DH; it just goes completely against his nature to ignore someone who is requesting "help", so I am proud of him. But he's spent years where it's exactly like Ima said; every time he'd try to take any action she'd suddenly decide to play nice, and DH is not only the eternal optimist, but has been told over and over how parents need to work together, get over their differences, etc. etc. So he'd let whatever it was drop - and BM would, of course, immediately revert back to her old behaviors.

I honestly don't think she's really going to learn that No means No; it was not an enjoyable experience chatting with her Saturday. She was as astonished, dumbfounded and unprepared as I would have been if gravity suddenly stopped and I began floating off into space.

Parent Of One; SS18 is still bouncing back and forth between BM's and friends' - when things get unpleasant at BM's he just takes off. Good part is he refuses to get involved in silliness like the latest, but DH is very disappointed that he does not seem to be making any plans for the future at all. There's still hope, of course, but the longer he drifts along the path of least resistance the more difficult it will become to turn off, I think.

Thank you Sylvia - among other things, we went to see the Nutcracker. Now everyone is gone - I can put on the CD and dance around the house because I know that I will look just like the Sugar Plum Fairy - and as long as I stay away from mirrors I can pretend just that. :-)

Mattie, you do look just like the Sugar Plum Fairy ~ I can see you dancing and you are just as beautiful!!!

It's amazing to watch people continue to spin out of control once you step off the ride, isn't it?

What a psycho! You sound like a fairy to me. Your husband is good too. He doesn't let her cross boundaries and creates them as soon as they are needed. So many men would just bend over backward to avoid a fight.

Since she is fighting with him, though, I can see why is reluctant to appease her at all.

I wish you and your family a Merry X-mas. I pray your SS will be okay and make it through all this traumatic mess with a little sanity. Poor little guy:( This woman is SELFISH!

Merry Christmas, Mattie and family. (((HUGS))) I know how hard it is to disengage from the insanity, but I think you are doing a fabulous job. Seriously, keep focusing on your family unit and protecting SS and do NOT let BM destroy your holiday.