hurricane impact window comparisons (pgt versus es windows)
jaradoverturf
10 years ago
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Karateguy
10 years agolillianhofstader
10 years agoRelated Discussions
Impact Windows and Leakage (LONG)
Comments (7)While it is not the norm, the salesperson is 100% correct in that every window will leak under those conditions. Windows are not designed to be bowls in correct. I would encourage your husband to look up the criteria and testing of windows. It will make more sense after that. Here is something that I copied and kept from Oberon. It summarizes quite a few questions for you. In terms of which route to go, some might recommend impact windows and the storm shutters if you really want to protect the home. Some of the benefit of the impact windows is that you need not be home to "activate or pull down" the windows because they are always in place. Here is what Oberon say.... DP and Impact Window Discussion The DP rating of a window or door is based on laboratory pressure testing in pounds per square foot or psf. Air, water, structural is a three-part test that determines much about a window's overall performance. Air infiltration is the first phase, water penetration is next, and structural is the third part of the test. Windows are tested for air infiltration simulating a 25mph wind or a 1.56PSF pressure load - air infiltration is treated separately from both water infiltration and structural and it is independent of the design pressure of the unit. Said again - the air infiltration rate in a window is not based on the design pressure rating of the unit. Both water penetration and structural testing, on the other hand, are based on the window DP rating. Water infiltration is tested at 15% of the design pressure and structural is tested at 150% of DP rating. What this means is that a window with a DP30 is tested for water infiltration at 4.5psf (15% of 30psf) while a window with a DP40 is tested at 6psf (15% of 40). A window with a DP30 rating should be able to keep out rain when it�s driven by 42mph winds and a window with a DP40 should be able to keep out rain when driven by 49mph winds...so while water infiltration is DP related - and air infiltration is not - the nature of air and water infiltration is different. The structural rating of a window is as much about the glass as it is about the frame and sash system. In order to get a higher DP rating the window manufacturer has to consider the thickness and possible heat-strengthening (or tempering) of the glass as well as the use of higher-end hardware and good quality sealants in the frame and sash system. But, interestingly, there is nothing in the structural rating that specifically requires that the unit be air-tight. A window can leak air like a sieve and still achieve an excellent DP rating. Likewise a window that is sealed tightly can have a lower DP rating but excellent air infiltration numbers. Obviously there are also many units that have both excellent air infiltration numbers and a satisfactory DP rating (relating to both structural strength and water infiltration). Simply stated, the relationship between DP and windspeed is -- "the ratios of the design pressures in psf are the square of the ratios of the wind-speeds in mph". A window with a DP30 is rated to a pressure level equivalent to a 110mph windspeed, but it is tested (for structural) at a pressure equivalent to 164mph. A window with a DP40 is rated to a pressure level equivalent to a 127mph windspeed, but it is tested (for structural) at a pressure equivalent to 190mph. So what does the DP50 in the "hurricane resistant windows" actually mean? Not much really. Certainly a DP50 is acceptable in many circumstances, but "hurricane resistant windows" is pretty much meaningless in that the window isn't impact rated - meaning that in the event of a major storm you would still have to either use shutters or plywood to protect your home. Impact (or "hurricane") windows are made with laminated glass, upgraded hardware, upgraded frames and other components, and all sealed in place with some of the strongest silicone (or other) adhesives on the market. Virtually all the major window manufacturers have impact products available. Some perform extremely well, others barely get by. Laminated glass is simply two (or more) lites of glass bonded to a plastic interlayer for strength. Laminated glass is no stronger against breakage than is the glass it is made of. Let me say that again - laminated glass breaks as easily as the glass it is made of. I mention that because many folks have the mistaken impression that laminated glass / impact windows won�t easily break. They will break, but the glass adheres to the plastic interlayer and keeps the envelope of the home closed. There are four major food groups in the impact glass world (a few other ones as well) relating to the interlayers used to manufacture the laminates. First we have PVB or Polyvinyl Butyral. This is the stuff that is in the windshield of your car. It is relatively soft and very flexible, yet it is also tough and doesn�t tear easily. This is probably the most widely used product in the impact glass market since it does great when impacted. It stops whatever hits it and stretches to absorb the impact (such as a persons head in a car accident). PVB is a good product and is the choice for many manufacturers. The second interlayer type is a hybrid of PVB with a layer of PET film between the PVB layers. This is a very tough product and it performs very nicely. The third type of interlayer is called SGP or Sentry Glass Plus. This is quite a bit different from PVB in that it is very stiff and very tough. It is becoming something of the product of choice in some of the toughest applications (including some bullet and bomb resistance applications). It is also can be more than a bit more expensive than PVB and may be overkill for some residential applications � but I think it is ultimately the best product on the market at this date. SGP has become the product of choice for a number of the wood window manufacturers. Although vinyl folks don�t seem to be using it quite as much yet, SGP does seem to be growing in the vinyl market as well. I suspect that one reason SGP is a little behind in vinyl windows is because SGP�s rigidity tends to transfer the impact force to the frame of the window rather than absorbing the impact in the glass as does PVB. While the best vinyl windows can handle the force of an impact when using SGP as the laminate interlayer, not all vinyl windows are strong enough to take that force. As a rule, aluminum windows tend to be pretty strong and can generally use any of the mentioned interlayer laminates. The fourth product line is the resin laminates � where a liquid resin is poured between two lites of glass and allowed to cure. I see liquid resin laminate as the "mom and pop shop" of laminated glass � although some larger manufacturers do use it. For the manufacturer it is cheap, it is easy, and it is an acceptable "mom and pop shop" product. Impact rated windows - or to answer your question - Dade County Approved windows are tested to the same air, water, and structural testing that I mentioned earlier, but in addition they are required to twice successfully stop an 8', 9lb 2x4 that is fired at the window at 50fps. If the impact window is able to stop the 2x4 - without penetration of the glazing - then the unit is subjected to 9000 high and low pressure cycles at up to 100% of the DP rating. If the window manages to stop the two 2x4 impacts, and manages to successfully complete the 9000 pressure cycles, it still has to operate in order to successfully pass the entire testing sequence and get the Miami Dade Approval. There are several advantages to using impact glass rather than shutters � not having to travel for hours to protect your home if you happen to be away for some reason is certainly a huge one � but beyond that: First, and best (and restating), they are passive protection�you don't have to do a thing to protect your house if a storm is coming. If you are out-of-town, the house is protected. Second, (and re-restating) they are passive protection...not just from storms, but also from unfriendly people who might want to enter your home when you are not there. Imagine trying to break thru a window or door that has been designed and built to withstand winds of over 150mph and at the same time to withstand impacts from a 2x4 projectile that turns plywood into kindling. Burglars look elsewhere. Laminated glass, used in impact windows, blocks 99% of UV light from entering your home and also acts as a significant sound barrier as well. Homes that are near airports that are remodeled for soundproofing are retrofitted with laminated glass for that reason. But, those homes generally use a much thinner version than is used for impact resistance. Unfortunately, looting is sometimes a problem after a major storm, and again that passive protection that impact windows gives you will help keep your belongings in your home long after the storm. The folks who do the deed are going to look at the homes that don't have that sort of protection. Also, those folks who use shutters or plywood to protect their homes are going to be living in a windowless cave as long as they are in the house with the coverings in place. Folks with impact windows don't have to do that. From a cost versus value comparison, IF you are planning to replace your windows anyway and you are planning to go with higher-end windows, then replacing your existing windows with impact units is cost-competitive with getting impact shutters. If you are not planning to replace your windows - except to install impact units - then the cost of window replacement can be significantly more than the cost of installing shutters....See Morequestions about pgt and impact glass in fl
Comments (41)Greetings! I need some advise I lived in South Florida, and I am planning to install high impact sliding door (patio) that is on my master bedroom (HOT room). My master room is my HOT room in the house and receive DIRECT sun light all DAY (10 am to sunset) ! My main goal is to FIGHT the heat. I planning to buy a high impact sliding door with LOW-e 366 or 70XL. Measurements are: 108 by 81 I have couple of quotes but I am confused. Some companies are advising for PGT Windguard 770 series and other CGI Sentinel . Some companies are telling to NOT buy insulated glass (filled with argon) due to possibility of outside glass could break. My questions are: 1. Vinyl vs Aluminum frame. And really worth it 2. If I add tint to an low e-366 or 70XL glass would increase my SHGC factor 3. Insulation with argon gas, will leak? and How common this could happen 4. How easy the exterior glass (thin) of an insulation door fill with argon could break? Does PGT and CGI used stainless screws? 6. How I know that the door I bought has the low-e 336 or 70 glass I bought and not other lower version. Thank you in advance Thank you....See MoreCost difference impact vs nonimpact ?
Comments (48)@Ron. Once again you have missed the mark, Ron. The hurricane testing standards were developed to reduce property losses only with no regard as to human safety. The insurance companies said that if something wasn't done, insurance costs would skyrocket in Florida or not be available at all. So structural engineers and the window industry got together and the testing standards that we have today are the result - far from perfect but somewhat satisfactory to the insurance companies. They hoped that by stopping the pressurization of the structure they could stop the roof from being blown off and thus reduce the amount of total structure losses. That is why it doesn't matter that the window is destroyed by the large missile impact. As long as it stays within the window frame and stops air from entering the building, it is considered an acceptable product. The fact that it is sacrificial and will no longer function as a window makes no difference. You might be better off understanding the topic than trying to psychoanalyze me. As I said previously, I'm not here to promote my product but rather to educate and inform the reader that impact windows are not the safe, ideal form of hurricane protection that they may have been led to believe. @Pensacola You totally understand my point. Thank you. I'm going to let this thread die before someone has it devolve into name calling and personal attacks that achieve nothing and only give good, informative forums like this one a bad rap....See MoreImpact Window Pricing- Help Please
Comments (8)Thanks for your responses! I do not have a HOA so no issues there. The insurance credit will be the same so i am just wondering if I am missing something to justify the steep difference. I know PGT is US based and ESW is headquartered in Columbia so they save there on lower costs.. I dont want to over pay but want quality too so just want to make sure I am not missing anything....See MoreHU-253419646
3 years agomillworkman
3 years agoUneeda Home Improvement Co., Inc
last yearmillworkman
last yearEric Walters
13 days ago
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