An afterthought, if you have any sound issues outside (highways, airports, major roads, near train tracks, etc) the all ultrex is Not a good solution in the area of sound dampening, it rather excels as a sound repeater through low vibrations because it is a hollow single chamber (think guitar or banjo body, or underground cave). The material is very hard, sound enters it and reverberates in the hollow. Most Vinyl windows out perform fiberglass if they are multi chambered. My expression for that to ab client with sound attenuation issues in noisy areas is "no bueno".

Ultrex, Fibrex and vinyl are all so close in STC and OITC numbers with same glass packages. Comparing a guitar to a window does not seem to make sense perhaps even absurd, you come up with this on your own?

Isn't this the exact opposite logic of why triple pane glass doesn't really do much for sound attenuation despite the greater mass of the third pane of glass? And why an older window with a halfway decent storm may actually perform reasonably well? I agree with toddster, sounds absurd.

Along these lines, if I am concerned about noise from a nearby highway should I look into this?

http://www.marvin.com/news-media/integrity-offers-expanded-sound-abatement-options-for-better-living-2

Yes. Offset glazing works well here.

Okay great, thanks!

And yet for the first 13 years Integrity would not publish or release the STC/OITC numbers on the window. Yes, they made improvements but it's still in the mid 20s without offset glazing.

You guys can give all the advice, but can you back it with test reports. I can show you a cheap single chamber vinyl window test in the upper 20s on STC, 1/8" glass, but a thicker multi chamber extrusion with an STC 34

Final thoughts and I will leave you all to your discussion board. All windows are not equal and their are so many things to consider. Do your homework, ask for a corner sample and look at the makeup. They all have strength and weaknesses, tradeoffs.

Fiberex and vinyl will distort and deform at approx 140 degrees. This is only a matter of a windshield reflection of sun on siding or windows and they melt like the plastic they are in

Aluminum is not as thermally efficient, but will last a lifetime.

fiberglass is both of these things, but limited in offering, expensive to produce, and do not have the screw holding ability like aluminum. They are held together iwith corner keys and silicone. As long as the finish is maintained, the fiberglass will last.

My guess is Marvin did not have them tested or saw no need to publish there STC ratings during that time period. I would also guess that STC rating did not Change by more than 1 over all the years.

all numbers I listed are from manufacture websites, very easy to back up.

would like to know what double hung vinyl window has an STC rating of 34.

Fibrex deforms closer to 220 not 140.

Do your home work so you do not need to be corrected ,try to speak in full truths, quit making things up and maybe read what you said before submitting.

Most say they that vinyl siding can start to distort at 160, but that is going to depend on thickness and color. Vinyl windows are much thicker and perhaps a bit higher temp would be needed to do the same thing. Keep in mind most Windows use vinyl glazing beads and other vinylparts

"Fiberex and vinyl will distort and deform at approx 140 degrees."

Coastal, where did *Fiberex* enter the discussion? Andersen's 100 does not use Fiberex.

I love that we have a fibrex guy and a fiberglass guy here both spewing propaganda and calling each other out for it. Hilarious.

"Fiberex"...? This thread is getting a bit backed up so perhaps some laxative is in order.

For the record, the Andersen 100 does use fibrex. From their website:

Our budget-friendly series is engineered with Fibrex® composite material
for durability, sustainability and energy-efficiency. It's twice as
strong as vinyl and provides low-maintenance exteriors with clean
corners for a refined look.

I know they use Fibrex, I've been an Andersen service tech for 15 years now. But it is irritating when someone pretends to know so much about a subject without knowing how it's spelled...

Hello everyone. Thanks for all the info. I'm still highly confused.

So here is my project.

Log cabin. Window holes have not been cut yet as I can adapt to my window product when selected.

house is located in northern Wyoming at 8200 altitude. So from every sales person I talk to the only similar sales talk is Low E and breather tubes. Easy enough.

Ill ne doing 80 percent of the project in casements and 4 window flankers double hung around 2 pictures.

I have done extensive reading and visits to showrooms.

Im down to the following.

the marvin integrity this thread started about

pella impervia or 35o series vinyl

milgard ultra

I'd love an all black frame but can live with less aesthetics for a better window with less possibilities of issues because of my location and replacement or warranty work. Any help in narrowing down a tad more would be appreciated.

P. S. A contractor had offered up the Andersen 100 as a budget option however I'm concerned about performance as mentioned here related to my climate location with drastic temp changes and harsh weather.

The 100 has just as good performance numbers as the Integrity or very close if not better.

The 100 has a single hung not a double hung. I am not fond of there single hung but the casement I do like very much. All my comments are made upon technical data available to me and visual observations only since I have no direct experience with either. I am not sure what air infiltration numbers are in the Marvins, very difficult information to track down.

We did the 100s. No regrets. This photo is from our supplier.

South Camano Andersen Window Job · More Info

Is that your home...? Wowsers. What a beauty if so.

No, hehe. You've seen mine. I just thought I would use that one instead.

Here's ours: new landscaping coming this fall...

Ah yes. Yours is stunning as well and I am sure I said that previously. I don't usually tend toward the contemporary home design side of the spectrum, but done beautifully is done beautifully regardless of style. Yours certainly fits the descriptor.

Well done and stunning home. I am sure you like coming home to that.

Thank you. You're the most well mannered guy on the Internet, WoW, and I mean that sincerely!

Hi everyone,

We bought a 150 year old Victorian/Colonial Revival home in MA, and did all of the necessary interior renovation work before we moved in, however, we did not touch most of the windows which were original to the house (wood interior rope and pulley double hung sash with aluminum storm windows on the outside). Now each major room of my house has two large curved windows with the original curved glass which is very pretty (and may have some historical value some day), however, the windows can be drafty and let in/out a lot of air so my gas heating bill is pretty high (my local utility sends me a report every few months and we use 85-90% more gas than our neighbors). As a result (and the fact that I do not love the look of the metal storm windows from the outside), I have started to look at window replacement options and have met with both Andersen Renewal and the Pella fiberglass and not only the quotes are pretty high (about 60K for the whole house for RBA--36k for the Pella fiberglass) but they would replace my nice curved glass with straight glass (the wood moulding would stay curved though) and I am not sure if this is a good thing to do for either the look or the value of my home. Also, RBA got me a bit scared of the Pella fiberglass as they said the product was toxic with formaldehyde (I have little kids) and that it would corrode and need paint maintenance and that the gas in the Pella windows tended to leak overtime and this was not covered by their warranty.

Recently someone spoke to me also of the option of restoring the old windows but I am concerned about the old glass still not being energy efficient. I was wondering if maybe there is a way that I could replace the storm windows with something that is very energy efficient and could compensate for leaving the old curved glass? Also, if changing the windows is the better option, what product do you recommend (I was reading this thread and there are so many options it is a bit overwhelming) as any particular vendor or contractor in the MA area? Any ideas or recommendations would be greatly appreciated!

Not uncommon for a competitor to tell you that the other guys window is "toxic". Ask the RBA salesperson what the actual make up of their window is. Unless they tell you that it is 70% vinyl resins...they are fibbing.

There are manufacturers that can make a curved glass window. Rest assured, you are going to pay a premium.

Restoration is an option as is an interior storm window. What kind of shape is the wood in?

Thanks Windows on Washington. The wood seems to be in good condition. Before we moved we had them sanded and painted white (they had a dark cherry stain before). I have heard that the curved glass windows are crazy expensive, so I would prefer to restore them if possible. I have not heard of interior storm windows. What kind do you recommend and how much do they tend to cost?

Cost is tough to put a number on in different markets. In terms of interior storms, Allied makes one as do Quanta Panel. I have used the Quanta panel and they have a great air infiltration number as well as a Low-e option. PM me if you need a contact over there.

After reading through all the comments posted on this thread since Aug. 2012, seems that buying windows is a far more daunting task then buying a car...and that's not fun! Boy what have I got myself into. Anyway I need new windows, along with other things, but the original 1968 s hung alum windows must go. Live in Knoxville TN and have been looking at the Marvin Ultrex. I'm not terribly concerned about the "mud truck look" as I am about performance and durability...and of course price. But I've just begun this journey and I'm not looking for a Porsche but a Honda if I can use that analogy - besides my wife and I both drive Hondas. So any advise on manufacturers to consider - not interested in Andersen, have read too many warranty issues to want to tempt that one but would consider vinyl and I don't want to maintain paint...pain in the arse for sure. Suggestions would be appreciated.

For performance and durability, you really can't beat vinyl. They do come in just about any color you want as well.

I'm now more confused than before after reading this thread. So, I'll ask for specific advice if anyone has thoughts... We're building a new home at the beach in Southern California. The design is warm, modern, bohemian with a lot of clerestory windows, skylights and large accordion doors to bring the outside in. We're concerned with clean lines, maintenance and energy efficiency (our temps are mild, 50 to 85 degrees year round). We'd like everything to be black (inside and outside), but I also love the warmth of wood in the interior (dark stain?). Our architect specified "Marvin Dual Glazed Wood Exterior Clad". I assume this is the "Integrity" style everyone is talking about? Our door and window budget came in exceedingly high with the Marvin. So I started looking at Sierra Pacific. But we're also considering other brands that no one has mentioned here: Loewen, Fleetwood, Jeldwen, Milgard. Is there an at-a-glance comparison (and ranking of quality/price) that anyone can recommend? Or any thoughts for a cost-effective option for a Cali new build with a lot of glass?

By that description, its most likely that you were quoted the Ultimate line. The Integrity is its own "brand within a brand", and is a fiberglass product with optional interior wood veneer. The Ultimate is Marvin's wood clad offering. That being said, you should be able to see significant savings by dropping to the Integrity. Loewen is another high end option, I'd be surprised if it was more affordable than Integrity. I'd personally stay away from anything by Jeldwen, Milgard is a solid window in fiberglass, and I don't know much about Fleetwood.

There is alot of useful information in this thread. I thought reading through everything would have helped but I'm even more confused now.

I'm doing a full renovation of my home here in NYC and am looking for a replacement window. What is the difference between replacement and new construction window??

Lastly, I am on a bit of a budget and looking to get the bang for your buck windows. I've narrowed it down to the Andersen 100 series or the Pella 250/350 series. Which would be the best to go with in the northeast? Thank you all!

A nailing flange, jamb extensions, and installation requirements (to the first question).

Of that comparison, most would say the Andersen is the better unit.

WoW, thanks for your reply! Certainly helps sway my decision a bit.

Something important to note, I'm comparing the 100 series single hung with the pella 250 double hung. Does this change your thoughts? I'm reading that the single hung 100 series is side loaded with pocket sills which is no good?

The pella 250 series has foam insulated sills with the option of triple pane.

I don’t care for either , but with the a gun to my head I’d go 100.

Agree with toddinm. Those are not features that you want with the 100, but the 250 is just worse.

Okay, great thanks for the heads up everybody! Would the 350 series be any better than the 250 series? How does that compare with the 100 series?

I'm currently looking at big box stores and these seem to be the "best" given my budget.

The disdain is mainly anything Pella in general.

Ok understood. I will be going with the andersen 100 series.

Just out of curiosity, is Pella's foam insulated sills any advantage over traditional pocket sills? How does andersen's 100 series get rid of water?

If I'm not mistaken, all of the windows that you are looking at have pocket sills which will channel some water through the frame and is not desirable. It is not recommended. It's an outdated design IMO. Its used to save cost most times as they will use the same extrusion as the side jamb for the sill, and in some cases the header as well. It can help with DP and air infiltration, however its kind of lazy engineering IMO. Many windows get BETTER ratings in those areas with a sloped sill because they have superior engineering. If I can offer any advice, I'd say take another step in the research that you are doing and find some better options that are available to you. That will mean getting out of the box stores as well, and not worrying about whether the window manufacturer is a household name.

I think your good, i prefer the 100 over the All Ultrex myself.

+1. The all Ultrex is hard to look at.

Hi WonW, Toddinmn and other Pros, can you please suggest a website that consumer can compare all the specifications of existing different frame materials and brands? it is hard for us to figure out from your talk and reading articles.

I am looking for technically good windows to replace with. thank you.

I like houzz.com

My daughter has purchased a new home with 50 year old double hung windows that need to be replaced. It is a colonial home in Massachusetts several miles from the coast. She is trying to decide between the Anderson 400 series and the Marvin Integrity. She wants to stay with the same traditional 6 over 6 white double hung windows. Any thoughts on which is better - the Marvin Integrity, or the Anderson 400 Series?

I had marvin integrity in my old home, mostly casements and was happy with them. They were bronze exterior.

My personal experience has been much better with the Integrity (therefore it would be my choice), but the Andersen product gets pretty good performance ratings and is generally well regarded. Not sure that you would necessarily go wrong with either... I'd add that you may get more/better feedback with a new post as this one is a bit long in the tooth.

Thanks, I will submit a new post.

This thread hurts my head