vista, vista, vista,

It doesn't stop. Does it? Some sc have no heart. You would think that you would be automatically invited to participate in these dinners. But no. I bet if it was just up to DH, all of you would be there together as a family, but since it is probably his children who have insisted on wanting him there and there alone, he would never tell you this not to hurt your feelings and because he doesn't want you to upset at his children.

Give it up vista. Let him/them be. Let him go with his children. Concentrate on your boys and on yourself. While they are out, have fun with your boys and take care of yourself.

AT one point, we stepmom's just have to give up. If it isn't in regards to a restaurant invitation, eventually it will be about something else and no matter how nice you are, how kind you are to DH's daughter or son, you will find more often than not, that you are hurt by these people.

Be good to yourself and your little boys.

Keep posting.

I really think Dad should be allowed time with just stepchildren. Did I misread this -- are we just talking about one dinner a week? As to the rent, yes that should be discussed, but I dont think it has to be at a dinner.

fleurs: I think you're right...sad, but right!

kkny: Not sure what the plan is. I asked them over for an informal Sunday dinner - DH put it out there, and came back w/ 'they miss our midweek dinners'. OK, I see your pov, but right now, w/ us in financial binds (our court date was pushed back a month against the ins. co.) we cannot even afford for he and I to go to a nice dinner and I'm betting the bf is w/ them. If he is, do you have a problem w/ it? I'm looking for your honest answer - not going to get mad. He is their father and I realize a little one on one time is needed, but if the bf's there, doesn't that go against what they want? And, now, am I looking at my DH having to take the three of them out to a fine dining restaurant weekly after they turned their noses up at my offer to come over and hang out????

BTW, I wanted to see a movie Sat. night and asked DH if he thought the girls would watch the boys for 2 hours - even in the afternoon. "No can do" of course, so I had to ask my parents. After seeing the teenaged babysitters in action at my June party and my Jan. memorial dinner for my g-father, I am not comfortable leaving them w/ my kids - too immature, not attentive enough at all.

D

I actually think it is good for bf to understand that there is a dad in SDs life. If he cant afford it, he should suggest what he can afford.

I actually think it is good for bf to understand that there is a dad in SDs life. If he cant afford it, he should suggest what he can afford.

We are not a stepfamily, so I realize our situation is different.

But one day a week my husband has breakfast out with just our daughter, and another morning a week he has breakfast out with just our son. My kids treasure that time with just dad, alone.

If an expensive restaurant is not in the budget, my husband just tells the kids that it's breakfast at McDonald's or Chick-Fil-A that week, and they're fine with that.

Perhaps your stepkids could do both - one night a week breakfast with Dad, one afternoon a week a meal with the entire family.

Good luck!

KKNY: I don't understand what you're saying about the BF. You think it's nice that the girls will have the bf there but not me on a weekly basis? Or, that he (and I) need to respect that they are important to one another independent of us??

Daisy: I'm all for a little one on one w/ dad - something our little boys crave. Dad's too exhausted most of the time and our boys are young 3,5,7. I've asked DH to take one boy on his afternoon golfing - just to the range, where DH likes to unwind, and the next week take the other one, then the third. Doesn't happen. I'm afraid I'm going to get a little protective of the little ones if Dad can manage to have a fine dining meal weekly w/ his adult kids but not take the little ones for a little alone time!

Sadly, I may be just holding onto past resentments w/ respect to the SDs. No one taxed their dad's time, money, and energy when they were young children the way they have in recent years. And, my Skids don't slum it, lol. It'll be a fine dining experience or nothing, knowing them. DH will NEVER admit to any financial restraints to them - we have to be the Rockefeller's...yeah, I have issues w/ DH, too.

Dana

IF the SD's boyfriend is going to dinner, then I'd be miffed and would second guess SDs' motives behind requesting the private "family" dinner. I give my DH and SS plenty of alone time but just as you are in a financial bind, so would it appear that my husband and I are as well. Fancy dinners, movies, or expensive outings are a luxury that I feel need to be earned, and I go without those things to put food on our table as I'm sure you do as well to ensure the wellness of your family. So if my DH said he and SS were going out to dinner w/o me be/c the boy needed alone time, I'd put the binders on that simply because we all need to eat and financial matters are of my concern as well, especially since I work to support us all.

I know you think there's a time and a place to give up or in, but on this one, I might keep poking and prodding especially since they owe you rent money.

I'd tell DH that since rent is owed by the end of the second week, if it's paid, then he and the SDs can go to dinner the third Wed. of each month with $50 to cover the entire bill. Take $50 for you and your boys and go somewhere yourselves to eat that night. Sounds fair to me. And I'm sure he would want to be fair to you and your boys, right!?!?

My adult stepkids do the same thing. They exclude me from invitations whenever they can. I know it hurts and when I as a stepmom always try to include the stepkids in all invitations.

DH is so very wonderful and aways trys to include me. I have never ever hurt his children and he knows that. DH knows how much I have given and scacraficed for his kids without expecting anything in return, but, mutual respect. Also, DH knows when his kids are alone with him they always ask for something material that DH cannot afford. The kids rarely ask for large money items when I am present. I think DH sometimes feel like he is only cared about from his children for his money or material items and not for him as a father or person. The kids also bring up their bio mom more often to DH when I am not present. Things like you (DH) and mom should be friends, mom knows she made a mistake by having an affair and leaving you (DH), etc. Dh has admitted he does not like when the adult kids bring up their mother and when we have discussed why the kids bring up their mother for no reason Dh says it makes him uncomfortable that they do that. I think DH wants me there when they are around so they do not ask for unnecessary money related items or bring up unneccessary things about his X.

Dana,
You made a "LOL" comment that the kids didn't want you there because they wanted to ask Dad to pay for their cars. That isn't funny in my situation because that is what my stepkids have done to my DH many times.
However, my DH wants me around with his children. He knows how I am a caring, giving, loving person and deserve to be included in this family of his. He loves all of us and wants us all together. I too want the same thing, however, his adult kids keep demonstrating they don't want the same as we do. It makes it so very hard on their father and myself. My DH feels that they need to be good to me and include me because I do that for them and have never hurt them.

So Dana I totally know how you feel being left out. I talk with my husband alot and he with me about the adult kids. We try to understand how we each feel. We know all we can do is keep trying to make it work. DH feels since I am part of him that the kids should include me and invite me to get togethers.

Is your husband with you on this or does he too want to be alone with the kids? It is good the kids have some alone time with their Dad, but if this once a week dinner is important to you, have two dinners a week. One where dad goes with the kids alone (dad and just the kids). Then one with all of you together.

Hi Dana,

I can understand why your feelings are hurt. I would feel a bit hurt as well, especially since you extended a very nice invitation to everyone.

On the other hand, I can also understand why his children may wish to continue their tradition of dinners with Dad once a week. But if the daughter's bf attends the dinners, my opinion on the "tradition" aspect would definitely change.

What caught my attention more than the dinners without you, and I may be reading between the lines, (sorry) is that your husband seems to be avoiding a discussion with you about the rental house.

Are the kids currently living in the rental house? Did you and your DH agree on rent to charge, etc?. Has he had any conversation with them about this at all?

What concerns me is his apparent avoidance of the topic. I think you have every right to know what discussions have taken place, agreements made, etc.

Best wishes,
June

I am a little confused as to why one set of his children "deserve" alone time with him, but the others do not. And, why one set of children are "entitled" to a nice dinner out once a week, but your kids can sit at home. I know the 3 and possibly the 5 year old maybe would be too restless for your DH to handle at a restraunt, but I am quite certain a 7 year old would enjoy a dinner out with dad and older kids. I really don't see a problem with dad spending time with the kids one on one occasionally, but every Wed. night is a bit much in my opinion. Particularly because you are fine with having the "crew" over once a week to visit with dad. I think your DH needs to come to the realization that he has 3 small children at home that require a great deal of time and energy, you work, you have a strained financial situation, and guess what...he doesn't get to take a night off once a week and go hang with his grown kids while you take care of the little ones. That is just not fair. Unless he is willing to let you go out one night a week while he handles the home responsibilities. He needs to let his kids know that he would love to see them and spend time with them, but he has smaller children at home and right now he can't commit to a weekly dinner out, but he would love to have them over on Sunday afternoon for a BBQ so he can see them and catch up on the week. Or if they continue to insist on the weekly dinner, he needs to tell them that Dana really has to step up on the night we have this dinner and take care of the little ones by herself. In exchange for our weekly dinner, I am going to need to take Dana out to give her a break. I expect you guys to help me out by watching your siblings so I can take Dana out. I think that is a fair exchange.

Yes, they moved in a couple of weeks ago. They paid the first month's rent. The deal was "first and 1/2 of last". They did improve the place - cleaned it up (of course, I'm about to clean up the stye OSD left here) from the old renter who had a cleaning service, but had turned off the water, so it wasn't as clean as it should have been...and their mother, shockingly, gave them two new sinks and toilets for the two bathrooms.

I agree that I'm out of the loop. The house is 100% mine and DH has never shown any interest in dealing w/ it til his kids moved in. Our therapist is opposed to any conversations w/ them behind my back and she's holding him accountable to keep me in the loop. So far, nada.

In light of the improvements, I'm not pressing the issue about the 1/2 last month's rent.

Dh just called and said that YSD wants him to contact a patient of his who owns a bar - wants to work there. I guess she's trying the beach v-ball circuit so she can't work a job in her field til that's out of her system. I'm not against that, just seems that none of them can ever seek employment via normal routes. Oh, I guess that isn't fair as many kids ask Dad if he has contacts. The girls are decent employees, I think, unlike the son. Lord help me if he shows up on my doorstep in two weeks...

D

For awhile when we were still together, my H and I took turns taking one of the kids out to dinner each week - no place fancy, usually, but a sit down restaurant as opposed to McD's. The kids (and we) loved it. I think it is a great idea for him to go out to dinner with them, but I think a reasonably priced family restaurant would be a better idea. I also think it is important for the boys to have one on one time with their dad - even the 2 year old. My H used to take one of the younger kids grocery shopping, and they thought that was great.

1. I think the issue of the rent v. the dinners should be seperate issue.

2. I think many parents help children obtain jobs. I do, my X does. If DH feels he cant recommend her, that would be a different issue.

3. I still think a dinner with girls and BF is fine. You and the boys have dh the rest of the week. Cant you give up one night. This is a night to focus on them.

I think that if his children want a dinner alone with Dad, I wouldn't be against that. But if SD's BF is invited to attend a dinner or dinners and Dana is not, I would be quite upset with everyone for being excluded.

It would be more than rude to exclude Dana and invite a mere BF, especially when Dana owns the house the stepkids live in and she has generously offered to host get-together dinners for everyone.

The point is that his "first kids" get a whole night alone with him each week while the rest of the kids never get alone time with him. I don't think that is right. I also don't think it is right to differentiate between kids. The 7 year old is old enough to join them (if they have to have an occasional dinner to discuss an adult issue..I can see excluding a younger child), but otherwise the 7 year old should be able to go and it would be a great opportunity for him to bond with his older siblings. And, I still think every week is a bit much when Dana is offering her home weekly for get togethers. I can see a dad/daughter night once a month or so, but I feel a dad with a working wife and 3 young children at home should not be away having a fine dining night once a week when he can't afford to even take his wife out occasionally.

Thanks, June. I concur. Either the girls want Dad alone or they do not - but want him w/o me. They are two very different things.

Lafevem: Can I print your post and give it to DH? Beautifully written and scripted better than I ever could have!

TOS: You are right - DH used to take the youngest grocery shopping while I taught CCD and the other two attended. It was nice. Right now, I'm trying to get DH to take our oldest golfing, primarily, so that they can have that time together w/o the distraction of the other two - just to the public driving range. I suggested it a couple of weeks back but it has fallen on deaf ears, except to take all of us to the range on the weekends, which is great, but not the goal of the one on one w/ Dad. The group outing consists of all three boys hitting the ball, DH and I watching, preventing injuries, lol. Then, I hit some when one of the younger ones tire...then I take all three to putt or for drinks while DH gets some real hitting in. No complaints, just want him to have the alone time w/ the boys individually. I think DH and the oldest need to bond. The oldest is my defender and is wise beyond his years as far as who does the lion's share of chores, lol. I have to defend Dad to him (can be tough), saying (which is true) that Daddy works more than me at the office and deals w/ the stuff I can't stand (taxes, payroll, etc.) Still, I don't want my DH not having a strong bond w/ him, then later buying him cars to bond w/ him as he did w/ his grown son years ago. That bond lasts about a day...

KK: I'd love to HAVE one night off/week. As it is, DH has Wed. afternoons completely to himself. He's supposed to take over the kids from my mother, but it doesn't happen. When I'm off work, T/Th, I'm w/ the kids w/o fail. OK, we're under a bit of stress w/ the pending lawsuit, so he's often wrapped up in that paperwork on his time off, but he still has a few hours to do as he pleases w/o anyone else near him. I guess I want to know when my time off is. I've had this "Wed. night" issue for years, leaving me to hold down the fort. It's not a big deal, but during the school year, it will be tough trying to put all three to sleep at once at a reasonable hour - before, the kids weren't in 'real' school, so bedtime could slide a bit. I've created a less than ideal scenario of laying w/ the boys til they nod off, and I can't lay w/ three. As it is, I lay w/ the middle one, arm is outstretched to hold the oldest's hand, etc. Add the three y.o. and I'm sunk!

I guess I have to wait and see what happens tomorrow night. I guess I'm just a little hurt that I extended an invitation and always have to these kids. The bottom line is, they're just never going to consider me anything but an outsider. I suppose after all I've done, I hoped for something more, that's all. I may be making a mountain out of a mole hill. I'm hormonal at the moment and things may not be so touchy in a few days. However, I told my mother I'd lay low about this til the therapist next week. She said, "Can you do that?" I said, "Do what?" And she said, "Not mention this til next WEEK?" LOL.

D

Hi Dana,

I'm sorry that you are going through this. How are these girls? Maybe they should grow up and realize that you don't get daddy time every week once you are an adult. Don't get me wrong, i am an adult and I spend time with my dad, but I sure don't expect him to take me to fancy dinners every week. In fact, I make a point to try to do nice things for him, when it is convenient for him (not every week). Have the girls been taking dinner with him on Weds. or are they suddenly wanting this to start again b/c they don't want to have dinner with the whole family on Sundays? It sounds like they are manipulating the situation and I think your husband is absolutely wrong for not standing up for you. I too have small children and a tight budget and I would be very upset if my husband dumped me for a fun night out with people who don't want to be around me. If I were you I'd tell him that he needs to start a rotation and each week he can take a different kid/skid to golf with him. If he wants time alone with them, then he should have time with all the kids and no one should get special treatment.

I know that you have mentioned this before, but according to your religion, your marriage takes priority over all other relationships, including those with children, and I agree with that. DH needs to put your needs first and his kids will probably be mad, but they need begin to understand and respect marriage. I can understand why that might be hard for them based on what has happened to their bio parents marriage, but all marriages are important and they should be respected. DH should care about losing the love and respect of you and his sons, not just the love and respect of his daughters.

Thanks, ekcs. I always enjoy your perspective on these issues.

As for the history, you know OSD just moved out a few weeks ago. Ten days prior, YSD and her BF moved into town and were also w/ us. I was pretty much cooking for the crowd for those 10 days and cooked all but about 2 nights for OSD for the 8 mos. she was living w/ us. She cooked once each of the first two weeks. Now, I didn't cook EVERY Sat. night, but all weeknights, maybe a few we got take-out, and I don't recall a Sun. night when I haven't cooked in recent history. During the time OSD lived here, she and her father had a few private dinners, nothing objectionable, really, or I'd have probably mentioned it. During the school year, as much as I'd love to have a night off, I wouldn't take that break if offered and leave the bedtime shuffle to DH. It's tough w/ three and they all want mommy. DH has stepped up minorly since we saw the marriage counselor - mostly so he can say he's following her lead, lol, I think. He's usually better in the nights right before a session and she's out of town this week, so he's a little slack!

I'm really not sure of their motives. I never got an answer about my Sunday offer but I feel it wasn't well-received or DH would have said so. They haven't shown up lately for dinner - have a couple of times unannounced since moving out, but I stopped jumping up to serve them last time, so maybe they weren't pleased or something??? I just couldn't keep leaving the table, trying to prepare something when I didn't expect anyone.

I'll see what happens tomorrow. I like your rotation idea a lot...

Dana

I would love to have one night off also. Since my X told me that he wanted me (and DD) out (about 3 years ago), I have had no nights off, except one long weekend and two 5 day periods (which did not include weekends). Everything else is on me.

If I were an adult stepdaughter, I would love having Daddy take me out to an expensive dinner once a week. Heck, what normal sane adult wouldn't like that? Again, if I were a twenty-something young adult, I probably wouldn't much care for a 'family barbecue' with three little boys running around and Daddy's much younger wife hostessing. It's a completely different social dynamic -- not posh restaurant, but bustling (loud, messy, unruly) young family...

Totally nothing personal, Dana but just the social dynamics of reality to a twenty-something. Free gourmet meal? Great! Little kids? Not so great. It's simple selfishness -- or perhaps, self-interest.

How to handle it? Well, I can see how your DH might enjoy an adult evening out with his adult kids in a nice restaurant -- again, who wouldn't? But the financial and logistical realities have to be considered. It's totally NOT fair for him to be spending your (plural your) limited resources on luxury evenings out for himself and his older kids, while shortchanging you and his younger kids in his time, attention, and yes, financial resources. Also, if he's every tried to put all three little ones to bed on time by himself, he knows what's involved and that it's not easy.

I can see how he'd probably be embarassed to admit to his girls that his financial situation is strained, but it's the honest truth that he can't afford to do this. If he were to say to them that he'd love to see them weekly, but can only swing the fancy restaurants once a month -- and why didn't they cook him dinner the other weeks -- What do you think would happen? (Once they stop gagging, that is...) Would the problem go away then?

Hi, Dana

This is painful, but this has nothing to do with
a private meeting to discuss something with Dad.

This is about SD wanting to spend time with Dad, and BF, and not you, and not the boys.

This is ironically NOT PERSONAL. They would exclude any woman that DH married, not specifically you. They would reject and exclude any new children of their father, not just yours.

These are issues that were present long before you came on the scene. It is not about you. You have no control over how your SD were raised. You have no responsibility for how your SD have turned out...that was the responsibility of your DH and his ex.

Your DH indulges them, and HE WILL NEVER CHANGE.
But he has many good qualities and when the family unit is you, your DH, and your sons, you have a nice family.

When it involves your DH and your step-kids, the rules are totally different, and the rules will never change.

There are two families...your husband and your step-kids, and your husband, you, and your children.

You would like to blend them, but you can't do it.

Quit fretting, and quit beating your head against the wall.
This will never change, at least not by you, and not any time soon.

Don't force this thing. Let it go. Stop considering
yourself part of that family. You are not.

Your husband wants you. He wants your boys. That is where he is loved and appreciated for himself, and not for his money. He knows that. He knows that he has to buy your SK love, and that's why he does it. It is pitiful, but
he is willing to accept that. He is worthy of respect, which he gets from you.

If he wanted his first family, he would not have left them.
If the dynamics of his first family were working, they would still be together, and they are not.

But the same dysfunctional scripts that he has played for years are still in effect, and they are not going to change.

Don't get into that habit of doing too much for SK, and then resenting them when they don't appreciate it or exclude you. That is their job. That is what they do best.
It won't change. Let it go, and send your best wishes with
DH, and just be glad you don't have to put up with all that stress.

One last thing: Don't expect them to babysit.
It's not safe, and they don't expect to repay you for your
favors, and they certainly don't want to help you in any way. Their only responsibility is to love your husband in exchange for goodies. And everyone knows it. Let it go.
Don't fuss at hubby, just find something else to do on Wednesday nights. I know it is not fair and not equal,
but hubbie doesn't have to buy your love and respect. That's why he doesn't do it.

Sweeby, you crack me up! Love that gagging part...priceless! And, so true. I think I'm the only person in her right mind who was unmarried and childless who CHOSE to sacrifice her life to raise someone else's children, meaning my DNephews. But, I wouldn't change a minute of what I did back then - and I was raised differently. You are correct, these girls are self-centered and will be that way for a very long time.

Southern: I thought about you and your situation which truly is the mountain while I ponder this little mole hill. I think you summed it up nicely.

I had to chuckle a little to myself. You know, I've semi-complained about the OSD living here and DH saying how she'd help w/ the boys, etc. and how she watched two of them one afternoon while we golfed a few months ago and on another occasion, watched the younger two for the overlap between DH and oldest son coming back from a party while I had to leave a little before to serve at church. Well, those are the only two times she has been alone w/ the kids since living here - and never all three at once. To be honest, I BANK on her never offering or refusing if DH puts the question out there. I mean, it would have been nice to run to the store w/o three little ones for a change...but the bottom line is: I don't really want her to babysit or her sister. Even Sat, when DH and I wanted to see the Bourne movie, I told my mother that the girls wouldn't stay w/ the kids and she jumped up, "No! I don't want them w/ our babies!" LOL. Mom's a little horrified at the thought, to be honest. I mean, they're really nice girls and if you met them, you couldn't help but like them. But, they are very self-centered and if the cell phones go off, so do their minds....so it's just better to do what we do til the kids are older. Plus the favoritism OSD shows for the younger two is intolerable to me and my mother.

I once had my first babysitting job while in middle school. It was my math teacher's son. My friend was going to spend the night w/ me so I told my parents I'd take her w/ me to babysit. My mom said, "Call Mrs. B and make sure that's OK w/ her." I didn't get it, thought mom was being overly cautious, but she was right - Mrs. B did mind, thanked me for asking, but would not allow it. I didn't understand, did the job, etc. Fast forward to my being in labor w/ #2. DH came to the hospital and I asked where our son was - "With my daughters..." was the answer. Later, I learned he was w/ them, and their friends. I wasn't happy. I think there's danger in numbers. Everyone thinks someone else is watching and it ends up where no one else is watching, etc. Here, the majority of drownings occur at group events. I've seen it w/ the beach parties by my house and I loathe those parties - the adults start gabbing and I'm watching the water ALONE! GRRRR. I'm getting off topic, but the bottom line is that I trust my mother and myself - period. God Bless her - she's amazing. And, DH, well, you're right - Lord knows he can't buy my love and respect at the moment...but even if he could, he wouldn't have to. Gotta love that!

KKNY: Sorry if you're feeling the strain of no days off. My hat is definitely off to the single moms of the world out there. My problem is more of having three aged seven and under and all that that entails. I'm sure your DD is a bit of a help to you at this stage? Mine have fleeting moments of wanting to help mommy, but they're young, priceless, touching and exhausting all at the same time. When I lay at night w/ the boys, esp. during the summer, at first I'm a little irked at DH, thinking I'm so put out and will have to 'waste' all this time getting the boys to sleep, then finish my household work, etc. But, after we say our prayers, we get into these great little talks...ahh, some of the things they say just make my day...the love, the wonder, the awe they have. I wish I could bottle it all up for future use...then I think, "Daddy is really the one put out and not by us - he's missing this and doesn't even know he's missing it...." Nowadays, he's doing a little better in this dept and will comment on something cute that was said and I once replied, "You have NO idea what you're missing...I may gripe at my work load, but that's just something I'd never give up for more than a night here and there..."

So, KKNY, I think your DH is the one missing out. Sure, you're exhausted and raising a teenaged girl alone is tough...but at the end of the road, he may end up alone and lonely. I don't think your DD would hesitate to prevent that from happening to you - after all, you've been there for her - nothing was more important - yeah, you had to work, but if there was really an issue, I think DD knows she outranks the almighty dollar. We all make our own beds.

I often wonder if my DH had nothing to monetarily give, how much his kids would be around. I truly do wonder - much like the book "The Giving Tree". The middle one (OSD) was the only one sincerely concerned when he was in ICU last year. The son didn't return my calls or those from DH's family in PA. YSD said, "Thank you for calling!" as if I'd just given her the weather report.

D

When DD was little we had nannys 6 days a week, so I could work 4 days (in a job he deemed prestigous), and entertain dads clients. He never changed a diaper, never stayed up with DD. What kills me is she complains that I went to work when she was little (X diddnt really give me a choice), but his GF stays hom.

It seems to be that so many divorced men are driven by guilt (even if they are not the ones who left their spouses). Being driven by guilt they can't say "no" to their children even if it hurts their new life partners. Or they simply avoid the situation so their children from first marriage don't get hurt.

My ex can't say "no" to our daughter. Not like she demands much, but if she only gives a hint that she wants to go to a concert or anything what i find unreasonbale her dad gives it to her right away. Or he comes up with the idea that she should not work while in college (never mind to ask my opinion). Certainly driven by guilt. My ex never consults with his wife in regards to our daughter-paying for college or any very major expenses. I bet my ex-husband's wife is not too excited.
My bf can't say "no" to his grown kids too. Life evolves around them. He always feels guilty, and he is not the one who left their mother.

I am not sure why men do it, but every divorced man i ever knew was driven by guilt and went over the board keeping children from first marriage satisfied.

So true, finedreams. Did you have an affair w/ the tennis coach? LOL, 'cause I think I married your X!

I also believe my DH has lots of times when he's emotionally unavailable which later leads to more guilt. Sometimes I can rationalize the reason, other times I think he's selfish.

His unwinding consists of engrossing himself in a sporting event. It's baseball season and the Yankees are on every day just about. Today, the boys asked him to do something and he said, "In a minute - I'm helping mommy clean up the kitchen." I was pleased, but soon realized he had good intentions, but wasn't willing to miss a pitch (though you can see the tv from the kitchen at most angles.) Soon enough, I was done and he strolled in and said - "I'll finish. Go take a nice bath." Irked, I said, "Finish what? Sorry, I guess the game just didn't give you a moment to actually get to the helping me stage..."

Anyway, I hope our boys love sports - really, I do. DH's grown son is gay and hates sports. I swear, they never bonded and the only way DH knew how to please this kid was w/ gifts and the gifts got larger and larger and larger - beyond our resources as evidenced by the lexus sitting in the driveway that we now can't get rid of.

My point is, my DH did try to be part of SS's interests at least for as long as we've been married, but maybe not before, so the guilt is worse. And, the whole gay issue has it's own little bag of worms assoc. w/ it.

For me, I'm not afraid to discipline my kids and have them think they hate me for a minute - I know I've put in my time and that they do love me for me and will love me again in a minute, lol. Maybe if you don't put in your time, you are really afraid that they won't love you if you have to play the heavy????

Did your X have to work through college and resent it? Part of my DH's issues are that he was dirt poor growing up, no tv, no car, etc. I think those past demons haunt him into making the worse decisions for his adult kids and even w/ our kids. I'm the one who has to say, "Don't reward their poor behavior w/ a new toy!" It's his answer. I also say, "You don't have to go to the toy store - go in the back yard, find some frogs, lizards and caterpillars and they're as happy as can be!"

D

I personally am of the 1% of people in the USA who still have parents who are married (35yrs). And I know that I enjoy alone time with my dad as well as alone time with my mom. We do different thing...my dad and I have lunch at the golf course, my mom and I go shopping and have salads at applebee's.

So I wouldn't sweat the dinners with dad. And you'll have to forgive me, because I don't know the particulars of your situation, but if you have step-daughters and daughters, maybe you do something fun will all the girls. If you have step-daughters and sons, find something that involves all of them. Invite them to games, swimming, whatever. I love my little sister more than life itself, but my little brother and I have a different kind of relationship. That kid walks on water, in my eyes! My sister and I have so much more fun, but my brother is capable of everything! Relationships differ according to gender.

I would never sacrifice my personal life for that of my stepkids. They understand that if Dad can't take me on a date, they don't get a date. They get dinner at home. A BBQ, home-cooked meal, tuna sandwiches at the park...whatever.

Your marriage needs to be your first priority. If DH goes out to an expensive dinner and you're eating mac'n'cheese...I'm gonna be ticked off. Children, step or not, should not dictate the level of your commitment. I have no doubt you'll tell me you're committed to your family and the best thing you can do for your family is to make your marriage the top priority.

What you and your husband will teach your children about marriage will be so much more impactful if they see the two of you working with each other...rather than dad doting on kids and you stuck at home. That gives them control they are simply not entitled to.

You are a family!

Hi Dana,

I wasn't going to jump into this topic, but it seems there's a bit of an all-or-nothing attitude going on here.

As a daughter, I can totally understand why the girls want to spend one-on-one time with their father. When my dad married my stepmother, my time alone with him came to a screeching halt. Seriously. In the first five years of their marriage, I spent only 20 minutes alone with my dad. All the other times, few and far between that they were, were spent with my stepmother and him. All while she glared daggers at me. lol

That said, I think your SDs are totally milking this thing. A compromise seems to be in order. Why not suggest to your husband that he continue the dinners with his daughters ... say ... every other week. On alternate weeks, they're invited for dinner with their younger siblings. I know he probably won't go for it, but you need to at least put it on the table. And I don't get the need for expensive restaurants. Time spent together is just as valuable over a Big Mac as it is over beef wellington.

Your SDs don't realize how lucky they are to have you as their SM instead of some of the winners the rest of us have to deal with. You're making an effort at including them in family life, giving them a place to live, etc.

Extend the invitation to family dinners and see if your husband won't cut back on both type of restaurant and number of meals. If he refuses to even broach the subject, I'm sad to say you might have to just let it go.

Men ... sometimes they can be so nonconfrontational. lol ... good luck, Dana.

Ever since my husband and I married 4 1/2 years ago, I have tried to encourage him to do things alone with his adult daughters. He has always insisted that I go or he wouldn't.

I'm pretty sure my adult SD's might echo what Lily just wrote that in the first five years of marriage, they only got to see their father alone for 20 minutes because that would be a pretty accurate statement.

Lily's SM may have been the one who insisted she be at every gathering, but I felt in my situation that it was causing bad feelings with SD's. But DH kept pushing and insisting I be there or he wouldn't go.

I think my DH felt that if he kept putting me in front of them, that they would grow to love me and accept me. The youngest SD and I get along fine, but I don't think the oldest will ever love or accept me.

I recently told DH that he NEEDS to spend alone time with each one. A couple of Saturdays ago, he spent the entire day with youngest. I'm sure it was one of the happiest days of her life. She adores her Dad. She likes me, but she loves her Dad. I don't need to be there all the time.

As for the oldest, when she decides to return her Dad's calls, he will try to spend some time alone with her, if she wishes.

I need alone time, too! I figure that when he spends time with youngest and possibly oldest daughter, I will have some time to myself to write, etc.

I also think that when I do attend family functions going forward, SD's will hopefully feel better because I'm not in their face constantly and they have had their Dad to themselves.

Vista... Not that you can afford it but...

What is hubbys busy day at work?? .. Ok thats your family night. Or on tuedays start going out with hubby and the boys everyweek on that day. Go for a few weeks in a row then have something you have to do on that night and have him take the boys on his own ... they need time with daddy too. They look forward to it have the boys get gussied up for the family night make a big deal out of it. Let him be the bad guy when he doesn't want to take them. Let him disappoint them then shove it in his face. If it were your "other" kids you would do it no matter what the excuse.

Let him have his time with his older children ... do you really want to be with them anyway? But as he is walking out the door remind him of a few unpaid bills that need to be taken care of in the next couple of days. So when he is paying the bill for dinner maybe he will recall how he could have better spent the money.

How would he respond if you told him your mother can't do wednesday afternoons anymore and since its his afternoon off he has to relieve her?

"Let him have his time with his older children ... do you really want to be with them anyway?"

That's so true.

It hurts, but that's the truth of it.

I saw a book at the book store last week, that I have not read, but it's called "what would Jackie do?".

Now before everyone thinks that I'm being sacreligious,
when I'm not sure how to handle myself in a dignified manner, I think, "what would Jackie Kennedy do in this situation?"

I think that Jackie Kennedy would say "who cares" and do something fun with Caroline and John-John, or maybe have a Calgon moment, or have a play date with the kids and some girl-friends. But I don't think she would waste her time with step-kids who did not appreciate her.

I wouldn't waste my time on ANYONE who didn't appreciate it!!

So true, Cawfe. You are my hero.

KK: I know your main issue w/ your situation is the working one, while the gf just sits around, pretending to be jump starting something from the house. I don't know of anyone who could live w/ that w/o a little 'punch to the stomach' feeling on a regular basis. Still, I think they're both missing out on a great young lady in your DD. Really, it's sad - the dad lost his DD and the gf will never have her due to the way she entered the picture. Their loss.

Annabel: My parents are also together - 51 yrs! I probably do sacrifice my marriage a little for our children, but they're still very young and needy. I have only boys - look for my new book, "Boy Crazy" lol. We appear wealthy to the unaided eye, lol. We hope to be comfortable again. Right now, I'm sinking in debt - maxed out on credit cards and they're killing me w/ the int. rates 'cause I'm in a bind. If we get our settlement (fire 4/05) we'll be OK again, but we have a lot to repay as we borrowed from Peter to pay Paul these past few years...

Lily: Actually, I suggested to DH that he take the girls out on Friday nights. I'm just too exhausted after a long week - and Fridays can be tough at the office, so I'm not up for much but a quick dinner and renting a movie w/ the boys. But...they don't want to give up their weeekends, lol, or so I believe. A weekend night wouldn't irk me as much since I can be more slack about bedtimes for the kids. And, I never said a word on DH's Wed. nights w/ his kids when we married. That was his visitation and I never went - used the time for alone time w/ my dear nephews, so it all worked out. Even in college and they wanted the tradition to continue, I stayed home w/ our young 1, 2, or 3 and let them have their fun - again, it was either for the summer 3 months or a few weeks over Christmas. Your father and sm, I'm guessing, had no young kids at home to tend to. This will not be an issue for me tonight or next week. But, during the school year, it will be very hard for me, unless DH is home by 7:30. We start the bedtime routine at that time and it's lights off at 8. If I have the 3rd little one running around - the plan will go out the window! Not sure what to do at that point. I know I created a tough situation w/ the bedtime/laying w/ the kids business, but I'm not sure what else to at this stage. I see it's getting a little easier on some nights - they don't need me quite as much, but I'm not comfortable letting the 3 y.o. run the house wild while I am behind closed doors w/ the older two. Of course, if DH could take the girls out at 8:30, that would be OK, but he won't want that as he goes to bed early, etc.

Frankly, I wouldn't be surprised if the bf joins them all tonight, but in the future, it's just the OSD. YSD and bf will probably like the alone time and fine other things to do. Besides, OSD loves to get all dressed up for Dad - remember, she's the one who wants to be the wife. And, w/ the way he treats her, she'll probably not have much of a chance to be anyone else's wife - they won't compare to Dad and won't come running in the middle of the night if she needs a glass of water...I hope her living alone can help the situation - time will tell.

D

lol Dana, no I did not have an affair with my tennis coach, I don't play tennis hahaha Too funny.

But yes divorced men all sound similar. I wonder why women are not driven by guilt? I never felt any guilt over divorcing and raised my daughter based on common sense not guilt.

Yes both my ex and I struggled financially in young age so now he believes children should not be denied anything. It is nice in a way but he goes overboard. When our daughter decided to go to unreasonably expensive college while she was offered bunch of money and had scholaships to go to a less desirable school. I said you are not going to expensive college, you'll go where they offer you money. Neither me nor your dad will pay. Well, behind my back my ex decided to pay her full tuition and living cost (unreasonable, and he does not even make that much, has a wife and a young son from second marriage). Decision was made: nobody asked neither me nor his second wife. i bet you she can feel it on her pocket. It is her money too. Well, he was saving on our daughter's education for a long time but why pay for expensive school when there are other options? Because he cannot say "no".

I watch how my bf's ex-wife says "no" to their kids, no problem. And she had affairs and left her husband and yet no guilt driven behavior. he however acts ridiclous with his daughters. The first time now he said "no" to his daughter in regards to buying a car. Oh that was a big scandal. Daddy said "no". lol

My parents have been together 35 years so I guess that is why I am struggling with this spending time alone thing while mom sits home. If my dad and I started going out once a week to a nice dinner while my mom sat at home and ate rice a roni, she would have a huge problem with that. She would be like "I don't think so missy". If dad is taking you out, I am going too...lol. I know it is different because you aren't the bm of these girls, but I still think every week is a bit much.

June: You just reminded me of those early days. My DH, too, would often try to shove us all together, thinking we'd see in one another what he sees in each of us, and that we couldn't help but bond and genuinely love one another. I don't think his plan worked, lol. How could it? The BM lied about me being the reason they didn't work it all out. I wouldn't be accepting of TOW, either. Later, when she 'fessed up, too many hurts had occurred - it was several years later, sadly.

Cawfe: You're right in that I don't want to go where I'm not wanted. I don't want to be w/o my boys, who definitely not wanted, either. If I have to ask my parents to stay w/ the kids, I'd MUCH prefer to use it for a nice dinner out w/ DH alone or another movie as other than Sat, it's been YEARS since we've seen a non-kids flick.

And, DH is supposed to relieve mom on Wed. afternoons, but it has yet to happen. I think I'm telling her to go for PT on Wed. afternoons for her shoulder...

If I ever tried to stick Dh w/ something for the kids, he'd just miserably fail. Even now, he's supposed to be helping w/ the nighttime routine per counselor. Some nights he's OK, some I do it alone, but if he's tired and I'm not done w/ the older two, he just plops the 3 y.o. in our bed and goes to sleep. Well, that's NOT really doing the bedtime routine, you know? Or his other stunt is letting them stay up really late watching a movie in bed til they fall asleep from exhaustion...grrrr! I could never trust him to do this routine during school!

Southern: I, too, was a fan of Jackie's. Ironically, I believe she and Christina had a very strained relationship. I felt for both sides and I was just a kid back then! But, regardless, Jackie handled herself w/ class - no doubt about that...and no one can criticize one's grace under pressure, right?

Oh well, the 'date' is hours away. OSD must be so excited - probably having a pedicure over her lunch hour...

Thanks for all the support and advice! I just needed to bat this thing around - will post more when I know what transpires tonight.

Oh, and I'm thinking of bagging up all the junk in her room w/ the laptop and handed it to DH as he heads out to get them tonight. She never came to clean up - I know you're all shocked beyond belief, lol. Oh, yeah, Jackie might not be this tacky - but I have a feeling if Christina had wanted anything she left behind, it'd be in the land fill by now....lol.

Dana

Hi, again

I am not shocked about boxing up her stuff.

I think you should make a nice little basket out of it
with a bow on it.

I know exactly how you feel. My SK's have only not included me once - and that was right before our wedding to discuss Mom and Dad getting back together, money and having no part of our wedding. The SK's now phone their Dad on his cell phone (all day) - DH gets annoyed but never says anything. I also feel that the SK's are always asking for money and/or outrageous gifts - these are adults and time to start standing on their own 2 feet. Guilt ????
I do voice my concerns to DH that we are only enabling their actions and not helping them make the right choices - my SS (20) still lives at his gf's parents does not pay rent and never has any money. He phones DH only when he needs something.
I truly hope everything turns out for you.

I could have written your post, exactly (except my SS is involved w/ and living off a guy) - cell phone call to Dad only, outrageous gifts always expected as well as day to day living expenses...

Hang in there,
Dana

southernsummer's statement,"If he wanted his first family, he would not have left them," really bothered me. Wasn't Dana's H's exW responsible for the divorce? Although I am sure the statement is true in some instances, I don't think one can generalize that most men, even the ones having affairs, leave their children because they don't want them anymore.

lafevem: Had missed your comment before but it brought a smile to my face as my parents sometimes call me "Missy." LOL. And, it's entirely different if mom were to say, "I'm beat - why don't you (to your dad) take our DD out to dinner tonight..." Or, "I'm going over a friend's house, maybe the two of you could keep each other company..." But, "We want our Dad and NOT you, so sit home every Wed. after working all day, feed the boys, bathe them, read to them, then get them all to bed on time....and we'll see you later!" just rubs me wrong, lol. Every so often, it's understandable. Guess I'm going to back off altogether.
But, if you saw my follow up post, dinner was called off as OSD had a meeting at work.

TOS: Come on, Southern did not say he didn't want the other family anymore. More like, "If THAT was so great, he'd never have left..." But, it wasn't great because he married a woman he didn't love - word is she trapped him. It takes two, but we all know too many men don't view a roll in the hay as a lifelong commitment. So, he did the right thing or she said she'd abort. Years later, she starts sleeping w/ the tennis coach. I'd say that's not so great...I'd have left, too. And, Southern said there are TWO very different families and two different dynamics. Can't argue w/ that at all. History has shown that when it comes to my skids, DH MUST feel he has to BUY their love. I never want him to feel that way about me or our boys. I can't entirely blame the skids - their mother told them EARLY on in the divorce, "Get whatever you can from your dad. It's us against him..." How sad is that? I know this as we had a longtime employee who was friendly w/ her - I think I mentioned it before, but the poor woman quit working for us and severed ties w/ the X due to the strain the X put on her...

D

I think southernsummer's comment was pretty clear. I just hope that no father or stepmother would actually say that to his children.

Dana...lol...my mom used to always call me Missy when she was getting on to me. Now she calls my DD "little missy". She even got my son calling her that so now the baby is "little missy". My dad calls every morning to check on her (my DS is 7 and he spends almost every night with them in the summer, so they only have to call and check on the baby..lol), and he always says...Just doing my morning check on little missy. Have you fed her, changed her diaper, and given her a bottle. He is just kidding of course, but I think he sometimes thinks I am still a child and he needs to call and remind me to feed my baby. Drives my DH crazy because he fails to see the humor in it. Teasing is just part of our family dynamic, and DH gets a little thin skinned about it sometimes.

LOL about that! It's OK, I understand. I come from a long line of worriers and stalkers, lol. If I fail to call home after leaving my parent's house (a 10 min. drive tops), my mother will drive over to our place to be sure the boys and me weren't kidnapped, lol. I say, "Mom, if we're abducted, just look a block away, 'cause you know everyone who isn't family would throw us out of the car after driving one block w/ us!"

I think it's great that you're so close. My parents are my best friends and I can tell them anything. DH drives me nuts because he won't answer the house phone (skids call only on his cell), figuring it's not for him if it rings. Sometimes, it's my parents, and if they don't get an answer, they come stalking me! I get a little peeved w/ DH, though, and say it's far easier to say that I'm putting the boys to sleep rather than to have them driving over....

D