"I flat told him...and you wonder why we don't ever see results or change in her. No consequences."

I think is the center of your problem. Hubby needs to stand firm, he sounds like a total softie....I can relate, my DH is the same way, not just with SS but my DD, too. He always threatens, rarely follows through...and the kids know it! My DD is a people-pleaser, she *generally* does what she is supposed to, and I handle most of her issues, anyway, but w/SS and his behavioral issues, DH's parenting (IMO) is really detrimental. SS is a tester--he is always the kid that just HAS to do it one more time to see if you really mean what you say, has to have the last word, etc. So when he knows his dad doesn't mean business, it just makes for a lot of trouble.

Maybe it's a guy thing?

I don't know, but if I were you, I would disengage as much as possible and let your DH deal with his daughter.

"I flat told him...and you wonder why we don't ever see results or change in her. No consequences."

I think is the center of your problem. Hubby needs to stand firm, he sounds like a total softie....I can relate, my DH is the same way, not just with SS but my DD, too. He always threatens, rarely follows through...and the kids know it! My DD is a people-pleaser, she *generally* does what she is supposed to, and I handle most of her issues, anyway, but w/SS and his behavioral issues, DH's parenting (IMO) is really detrimental. SS is a tester--he is always the kid that just HAS to do it one more time to see if you really mean what you say, has to have the last word, etc. So when he knows his dad doesn't mean business, it just makes for a lot of trouble.

Maybe it's a guy thing?

I don't know, but if I were you, I would disengage as much as possible and let your DH deal with his daughter.

See it only took me four years to wise up ... to figure out no matter what I say to him about his kids ... he is just going to let them $hit on him because its easier than parenting them .... its the easy way out ...

Its all petty stuff but piled together its a mountain ...

I have given up trying to change the way their parents react to their children but when they are nasty to me they are told ... you cannot/will not talk to me like that ... talk to father and mother like that but I will not tolerate it ... since you cannot be punished I will punish myself and I head off to bed ... no dishes no dinner no laundry ... they are on their own as if I weren't here. When they start beating each other up I give one warning if I hear another punch or scream I will be calling the police and let them deal with you.

I do have control over a few things ... cable tv, internet, food. So piss me off enough and those things are taken away ... by food I mean me making dinner there is stuff for them to make for dinner just too lazy to do it ....

It works for me not saying it will work for anyone else ...it gives me a sense of control.

Your husband is the issue. He's the enabler and he does not follow through hard core.
Its not all men but most are guilty and put the full square blame of the divorce on their shoulders...so they harbour the guilt and do nto wnat their kids to hate them but punishing them..etc..etc...
My dh still has his guilt and will always have it BUT, he's a tough love kinda parenting which he learned from his mother and he does and will defend me tooth and nail against his kids. Though because we stand by each other for the little things the kids do respect me. I know they dont live here and i'm sure it would have been different if given a 24/7 basis...but my dh still stands by my side. I honestly realized that last week when he caught his daughter ina lie and her mother caught her at the same time. She got it from both sides......i feel bad for her but she deserved what she got.
sorry...blabbing...
Wildthing...stop caring all together if she reads in the bathroom...her loss if she begins to fail school, let her father deal with it. Completely disengage and begin to form walls about her. You've cared for her for so many years, now that she doesn't respect, drop her and leave her dad deal with her.
I think every once in a while go down to the room, if its a complete pig sty start taking things away from her. Has your dh done that? taken things away , a reward system of some type?
When my sd got out of line a while back and talked back he sent her to her room, no tv, no internet for the entire week stay and he didn't pick her up for a while until she apologized for her behaviour. And he waited for that apology. He didn't care that it took 2 months. In the end, he got the apology and she was very careful not to behave like that...we'll see how long it lasts.

I know she should do her chores, but she has to lock herself in the bathroom to read?????? Do you punish her by not letting her read? I loved for my boys to read and used to let them leave the light on 30 minutes longer if they read.

Many teens are not easy. I would suggest to DH that you guys regroup and decide what is/is not important. My suggestion -- her room can be a pigsty but close the door. As to chores, sit down all 3 and let everyone have input on diviying up. My daughter took over some things I absolutely hated (cleaning up lawn furniture).

I agree with reading -- that is something important. Also, dad should be meeting with her guidance counselor before school starts to map out a plan. If she is college material, but just not working, she may need an eval. At times she sounds depressed to me. If not college material, she needs a plan to learn a trade.

Good luck.

Sounds somewhat like DD was at times, her room had to be closed at all times so bad it was. And she read and read like there is no tomorrow. All this reading paid off eventually so I think it is great thing that your SD reads so much. I don't know why she hides though, she should be able to read in the open.

What are SD's plans? Is she moving out after high school?

DD21 lives away from home and cleans her room just fine, it is not spotless but it is way more organized and she does dishes and takes care of chores (I guess there is no mommy to do any of that LOL). So maybe SD will grow up and be responsible?

In terms of punishment I would take away TV no problem, TV show is not important, too bad dad doesn't follow with it.

thanks for the posts.

yes, we let her read. Our main rule is chores before anything. She can read all freakin day or night if she wants but her chores better be done first. So she has no sane reason for hiding out and reading in the bathroom. In fact, that was all she did today. Finished those damn books. So now she has nothing again.
BTW, reading is only something she just recently got into, as in not even a year ago. We "made" her read when she was in trouble for this or that and she hated it.

Totally agree with pseudomom's idea that it is all petty stuff but piled all together it is a mountain.

She already did the hide in the bathroom and read till you are doing crappy in school thing.

She won't be going to college. No clue what her plans for after high school are. Keep working fast food I guess. If I am to disengage it isn't my problem.

We don't expect her room to be spotless...she is a teen afterall. But we do expect dresser drawers to be closed, the dirty laundry off the floor so you can see it, garbage where it belongs, and a decent bathroom, ie, nothing growing in the toilet etc.

We have already taken tv away. She only watches certain things anyway. Because tv was a huge thing for her. All important. Her mom is the same way...don't jump all over me for saying the truth. Her mom and her used to sit and watch tv all day long. That was it.

Yes, I agree her dad is too soft on her. He feels like he has to save her from turning out like her mom or like her brother.

I just discovered something today. Has to do with her issue with relationships.
you all know how I have been saying that she won't call her friends etc and make any plans with them or invite them over etc.
Well since she got in trouble, she decided that it is time to call her friends. Wants to go do something with them....knowing the answer will have to be no.
Had no problem calling them today. Although she should not have even been on the phone...she gets real content it seems when she is "grounded".

So it looks like she gets to tell friends "sorry, dad says I can't I am in trouble" so she looks like she is "trying" to do things, and she gets off scott free without feeling like she is hurting the "friendship". this isn't the first time she has done this. total sabotage. She always did like the victim role.
The girl is so afraid of any kind of relationship. A definite issue that needs to be of more focus in counseling i think.

I keep saying it is so hard to "give consequences" to this girl. Because we have taken things away. Or we don't give or offer them...like a cell phone...she has one, but she can't use it. She pulls crap like she did with the friend thing, so she won't have to say no to "friends". So that way it is like it is the parents fault.
She is content if we leave her with just reading. Which makes the hiding in the bathroom thing all the more bizarre.
I tell you ladies....I can't begin to explain the strange things this child does or even begin to wonder the why's of it all, other than she is seriously disturbed.
Some of it I recognize. Not in a good way either. Because of being around kids like that in the psych. center where I used to work.
That stuff is the really manipulative things, that if you were not aware of it might even seem some what normal. She can still manipulate her dad very well. It used to be all it took was her tears to flow...but I finally got her dad to see that was just an act with her...so she hasn't pulled that for a long while. She is moving on to bigger and more sneaky things.
It is nerve wracking for me. Just disengaging doesn't quite take care of all that goes on here.

she needs psych. evaluation. something is not right.

Yeah, tell me about it lol.
We had a psych eval done on her brother years ago. His behaviors manifested at an early age. Hers seemed to come about as puberty hit. Which I figured would be the case. She kinda sat back and watched with her brother.
His dx were a range, depended on which doctor you used lol. Schools wanted him on meds cuz they were certain it was ADHD. He was on meds with his mother for awhile, didn't do anything.
He had a Attachment disorder dx, and conduct disorder.
I think if he went in for help for anything now, he would most likely be dx with bipolar.
Probably where the sd is at too. They were raised by the same mother in the same circumstances, so it wouldn't be a terrible surprise.

Her thing lately is not listening. Then just flat ignoring me. She found out her dad went to bed early last night and she stayed up until 2am. I told her to go to bed three times. Today, her dad said she could be on the computer for 30 minutes. He went back to work. Yeah, that was 3 hours ago. she is still on the computer.
What do ya do if you are disengaging? I don't want to get into it. She knows it, so she is just milking it for all its worth. Then he only takes the computer away for like two days.

I wish she was at her moms for the summer. Except they are not talking. Yuck! The tangled B.S. I have to put up with.

My Sd used to do that. milk it forall its worth on teh computer whenher dad would say 30 min....
So i put a password on it and told my dh, if your daughter doesn't listen and get off when she is suppose to, i will change the password and leave for the weekend and both of you will not have the computer.
so its up to you to enforce it or in the end i will by shuttin gthe computer indefinitely.
It worked.
but your sd has to be psych eval....i think she has some disorder....
Why isn't she speaking with her mom???

WT,

I am confused, if you are disengaging, why are you bugging SD to go to bed? If you are disengagine, just let her stay up.

"What do ya do if you are disengaging? I don't want to get into it. She knows it,"

Just ignore her. I know it's tough, but if she is up late using the computer and Dad is asleep....just do your own thing. A part of her might want to get a reaction from you so don't give her one. If she wants to stay up till all hours of the night and DH isn't awake to deal with it, let her. Then if she has activities/chores/etc. the next morning, let her deal with the consequences of staying up too late and being tired. The more you push, the worse you are going to feel and the more she is going to rebel.

Why isn't she speaking with her mom???

Because her mom read sd "I feel" letter and let her whole family read it and everyone on her mom's side of the family was angry about it and felt like she was just "attacking" her mom. They thought we made her do it, but it was something her counselor had her do. So her sd, said that her mom would call her in like a month, but that was months ago. ::::shrugs:::: It is just a huge long messed up story.

KKny: I did just let her stay up in the end. The other kids were up, and i told everyone to go to bed. She stayed up. I didn't push it past when the last kid went to bed.

Then if she has activities/chores/etc. the next morning, let her deal with the consequences of staying up too late and being tired.

Oooh, but she sleeps till past noon, cuz dad leaves for work first thing in the morning. I don't push that either.

That is why I am here venting. This is the crap I have to deal with everyday, and I try not to get to overly involved in it all, because essentially it is not my problem. But when her behavior starts affecting the other kids it becomes my problem.

You don't vacuum as soon as hubby leaves for work ... my vacuum has a mind of its own, always bangs the doors of children's bedroom who have a) kept me up all night or b) woke me up when they got home at 3 am.

I also "jam" to my favorite music in the morning.

Sometimes my candles (eeks) if I burn too many set off the fire alarms .... hate when that happens.

Its not disengaging but it gets the point across you keep me up I get you up ...

she sleeps till noon?/...lol, i get up at the crack of dawn to do household chores. i think pseudo mom and i are on teh right track. Do you daily things and its just so sad and too bad that she didn't get to bed on time.
yes boilign something in the morning should set that fire alarm off:)

p.s Had my cousins wife sleeping over and she sounds like your sd...sleeps in till noon and you have to nag her to do somthing. She had a fight with her hubby and wanted to crash at our place. WAs that a mistaaaaaaake! i can't believe how lazy she was...not wonder my cousin was at his whits ends......

LOL, psudo and maria. I usually will send her little sister downstairs several times to do things lol. She isn't a quiet child by any means.