I'd take it for granted that grandparents are hearing one side of the story & that they believe it 100%.

but confronting them on it would amount to calling their daughter a liar, & that would just back them into a corner that they'd have to defend.

I'd let hubs communicate with them that, regrettably, our plans have been made, so sorry,can't change, wish we'd known, feel really bad about it, even went through the kids' emails & cell phone calls, nothing there, can't imagine what happened, etc.

We really would like them to stop e-mailing and calling the kids to defend the bm, just talk to the kids about other things. It confuses and upsets them when they know what is going on, but then have the grandparents passing along their bm's latest excuses/lies like they should believe them. We would like the relationship with the grandparents not to revolve around them trying to stick up for her to the kids. Be grandparents and enjoy the grandkids---millions of other things they could talk about instead of bm. We just do not know how to word that nicely. What do we say---please keep in touch with the kids but please leave their relationship with their bm to them and bm?

sorry, I misheard what you was a'sayin'.

Maybe hubs could talk with them about the difference between kid stuff & adult stuff & tell them that the kids are hearing way too much that needs to remain in the adult realm.

If they still don't get it, he can be a little firmer, saying that, really, he simply cannot have the children put into the middle of things;
regarding visits & vacations & emails & whatnot, grandparents are to contact him & only him to get things set up;
they simply cannot propose plans to the children;
surely they realize how much effort & coordination it takes to arrange these things & the children are too disappointed when the plans the grandparents propose can't be implemented.

& they really must not discuss other adult things;
the children are too young to be dragged into grown-up matters.

Have you asked your SD if SHE wants to go now, or if she wants to follow through with the plans that her dad and you have made. If she wants to go, you should probably let her.

If she doesnt go, maybe there is a chance bm will get annoyed and file for standard visitation in court, and then your husband can file for child support. Or maybe grandparents will push mom into taking it to court.

The best thing to do would be a court order defining support and visitation issues, since there has been a) no support given at all voluntarily, and b) visitation issues in the past.

Your husband knows his former inlaws best.. He can decide whether it would be worthwhile to mention anything to the grandparents, or if its a waste of time. You have to realize, the grandparents are going to believe their own daughter regardless of what your husband tells them. They will merely believe you and your husband are hiding emails, not answering phones, etc. Its a he said, she said.

It would be GREAT if someone would finally take this mess to court and get a judgement, instead of everyone just doing what they please.

Well court costs money. If we take it to court we should have a lawyer. Lawyers need retainer fees. If we do get child support it will be a small amount and will not amount to our lawyer fees anytime in the near future.

As for visitation we are reasonable and always have been. Maybe we have even been too reasonable and accommodating in the past.

They should have schedules summer visitation before summer began. We are not bending and even discussing making plans this late in the summer. We are not talking about a week long trip in driving distance. We are talking about flying across the country, which would require a few week stay to make the money worth it (as said by the grandparents). There are only a few weeks of summer left and we have 2 long weekend family get-aways planned and booked. We are not changing our plans because they all could not get their act together to plan something in advance.

If you had been through what we have been through with the bm and planning visits you would not want to bend either. When she lived in state she was a nightmare. She would either plan visitation and do a no show no call. Later we would hear excuses of how she worked overtime (though we called her work when she did not show and were told she was off for the day). Or she would show up pounding on our door at 6 or 7am to wake us all up on some random day demanding to take the kids without calling at least the night before to make arrangements. She could care less if we had plans with the kids already, she felt the world revolved around her and what she wanted. She even took the kids out of state once and said she would be back one day and then she did not show up until more than a whole day later. We had no way to get a hold of her and she did not bother to call. So we just sat worrying that something happened until we called her job and they said she called off. Funny how she managed to call work but did not bother to call us.

My dh always caved and gave her what she wanted--he would say that it was for the kids. Well we are way past caving to her every whim. Last summer she made visitation plans pretty late and my dh told her to make them earlier next time. So now she waits till way later and they all think we should just accommodate? Perhaps when he** freezes over!

We just want them to take a step back and realize that defending their daughter to her kids may not be the best idea when she really is not telling them the truth about situations and then it makes the kids feel guilty.

And they said that her mom also e-mailed her about visiting this summer a while ago and she never responded, that is why her siblings are not visiting there this summer--

Kathline is right, your husband probably is the best judge of whether talking to them would be beneficial or not, but based on the situation you just described, I wouldn't hold out much hope. Even if what BM tells them was absolutely 100% true, what kind of grandparents would blame the **child** for not arranging visitation? Wouldn't it make more sense (again, if BM were telling the truth) to blame you and DH?

Quirk,

I think that when the grandparents mentioned the whole visitation thing they were just trying to defend their daughter by saying what she had told them. I am hoping they did not realize that they were in turn blaming a child for her and her siblings not being able to visit their mom.

We were hoping if my dh talked to them that they would see how their grandchildren are hurting when they make comments like that and it would keep them from doing so in the future.

My dh says he may call tomorrow just to try to discuss the situation and explain the kids feelings and why at this point summer visitation out there is not going to work. He is also going to let them know dates the kids will be available for a whole week or week and a half if the grandparents want to make the trip out here. Because the grandparents have friends that live near us it may be more reasonable for them two to fly out here and stay with their friends and see the kids then pay for 3 kids round-trip plus an adult flying each time to escort them.

And before bashing us on the kids not flying without an adult I would like to point out all the scary things that have happened recently in the air. Just the other day a man walked out of an airplane bathroom naked and tried to open the emergency exit on the plane. If our 3 would have been on that flight alone who would have calmed them down after seeing something like that? I guarantee all 3 of them would have been freaking out.

I wasn't bashing you, not at all. I was saying IF the grandparents believed mom had tried to arrange visitation, wouldn't it make more sense --from their perspective-- to blame you than the child. You and your husband being the adults who would actually be the ones to work with mom to arrange visitation, if she had contacted you. Not that *I* am blaming, or that I think anyone should blame, just that if the grandparents felt there is blame to be placed for someone not working with mom to make it happen, it's not reasonable (and certainly not kind and loving and protective as most normal people might expect from a grandparent) to lay that blame on the child. sorry if that wasn't clear.

((I was bashing, admittedly, just directed towards grandparents, not you-- no matter how much they believe their daughter, or want to stand up for her, I just see no justification for laying that kind of responsibility on a child))

I understood what you were saying Quirk. I meant that I knew some people would bash us for expecting the kids to fly with an adult instead of alone.

oh. duh. yeah, probably so...

And I do agree that matters of visitation should be between adults! Visitation should be arranged and set before even bringing it to the childrens attention so they do not get let down.

Even with my bioson I have issues with this. His dad has mentioned things to him that they should go do on days that are not his visitation before he discusses it with me. If his dad comes to me and discusses these arrangements and we have nothing going on I do not mind accommodating them and letting him have extra visitation--I am all for it. But if we did have plans it is unfair because then it may ruin our plans because my son decides he wants to go with his dad. Then my son sees me as the bad guy if I don't let him go with his dad. And it becomes a frustrating situation when it should not be.

I'm floored that grandparents would lay a guilt trip on a grandchild because their daughter is a crappy mom.
I'm so baffled that I have no advice to offer.

Well my dh did send the grandparents an e-mail about the whole situation. Told them the kids love them and love to hear from them, but dh does not want the calls/e-mails to be about bm. Told them how it has affected the kids not hearing from bm and how their e-mail hurt sd's feelings. He also said that bm is not living up to her responsibilities at all: emotionally, financially, and of course not physically since she moved so far away to be with her bf. And it was mentioned that bm said she would call on a certain day and that day had passed without a call-another let down for the kids.

No response from grandparents yet, but bm did mysteriously call about 2 days after the e-mail was sent. I think they probably see some of the things their dd is doing in a bad light now, but too embarassed to know what to reply to dh.

And that is fine. He got the situation heard and obviously they talked to their dd. So I would say the e-mail had its benefits.

Now if we send a weekly e-mail maybe they will remind their daughter to call her kids...just kidding!