LOVE!!!! YAY you're back!! I just logged on to post a new thread and was so excited to see you are back. I hope you had a fun time with the kids and DH and your family! I hope the weather in Michigan is much nicer than this 105 crap we are experiencing. I can't even begin to take the kids outside as it is red ozone days every friggin' day! And I might sweat and that would seriously kill me.

Enough chit chat already - damn!!! Absolutely it's time to go back to court. This is ridiculous! 2 in the morning? What in the world is BM doing texting at 2 almost 3AM!???

This poor kid is going to have serious anxiety. Sounds like he already does. Sounds kind of like he is scared of mom too. Scared of her reaction to him living life. This is NOT what the courts intended reasonable to mean AT ALL!! Remind me, is SS in therapy?
Might be a good idea. At least he can hear from a third party that none of this is HIS fault NOR is it his responsibility to care for, calm, appease his mother and her anxiety and her ridiculous 'worries'.

I mean ... It's ok for mom to 'worry'. I worry constantly. I don't act on it. I'm worried right now and both my kids are tucked in their beds sound asleep. I know I'll check on them 3 times before I retire to bed tonight, just cuz... But seriously!! At some point she has to STOP putting her anxiety off on her child. It's not even about her relationship or her future with SS at this point. Who cares If SS wakes up one day and says my mom is nuts!! He needs protection now from the health issues he is sure to develop over the stress that he is burdened with. This child could develop an ulcer or might start losing sleep over this. His grades could suffer. His social relationships could suffer. I could go on and on. This is so unhealthy. How can she not see??

How is she not a miserable wreck from reacting with all this anger and madness!? (well she is obviously). I'm so angered by reading what she has done to SS. I'm angered at her attempts to deminish the relationship between your Dh and HIS daughter. Your SS and his sister. Her venom is so nasty and hostile and it reaches everyone all the way to your own father.

I'm so so sorry that she was able to put herself in the middle of your family vacation. This is all jealousy. She doesn't want her son to do anything that doesn't involve her and can't seem to even function outside of his presence. Her need for his constant reminder of loyalty to her is disgusting and sick!

I cant imagine that by turning the phone off during the day and only allowing 1 call a night is in contempt (I can't believe I am saying this) maybe even a morning phone call. If this is a prepaid phone, how can you document the phone calls? Obviously you have the text messages she sent to Dh. I cannot imagine a judge not seeing her texts to Dh saying he is fat, you are ugly and your daughter is whatever it was she called her as harassment and grounds for an immediate re-evaluation of not only the phone issue but custody all together. Seriously. Why is SHE not in therapy?? SS is going to have to see a therapist so that he will be able to turn the phone off and enjoy his day without backlash from mom later on. He will get it but he needs help in how to deal with it. The anger your Dh got from SS is ONLY geared at Dh because he can't direct it to anyone else AnD he is scared. Scared of what his mom will do. I would be terrified that she would do something to harm herself because she becomes so anxious over not hearing from SS. I would be worried that she would retaliate in a violent way. She seems to be a leaky faucet and that pipe is about to explode.

Big hugs Love! Glad your back. I hope your SS is ok and I hope you had a great vacation considering ....

((hugs)) It's just my opinion but I think your DH should ask for full custody with supervised visitation. I actually got a sickening feeling as I read your post. I can only try to imagine the stress SS is under, let alone your entire family. Save those texts & take that crazy lady to court. Any court that sees the things she says would be crazy to not agree that it's damaging that poor child! Until she deals with her issues, be it jealousy or mental illness... that sort of behavior will escalate & long term, it will cause irreparable damage to SS. If your DH doesn't step up to protect his son, he will be to blame as much as BM. She is his mother & they should have a relationship but not at the expense of SS. It's your DH's job to protect his child because he is the rational/reasonable one.

I am with imamommy on this. In regards to full custody. Time to act.

i also wonder if DH saves those texmessages and if they qualify as harassment, her comments about you and DD? and her constant demands of SS's attention? Phone call every minute? Is your DH saving phone calls, messages, texts, times etc? Time to call his attorney.

OT question, not to jeopardize our anonymity (don't have to answer) were you in UP?

I just thought of something...

Your DH might need to start teaching SS to be more assertive (not to be nasty to his mother but say it how it is), and he might need to be in therapy ASAP, possibly therapist could help with strategies how to deal with a crazy parent. I would not be able to harass DD even if I wanted to, she was never too obedient.

I understand it could backfire though, he could tell mom "my dad said this or that",. then maybe if a neutral party, therapist, woudl teach SS. was therapy ever discussed?

Answering questions:

SS is in counseling but neither DH nor I have been that impressed with this guy. He is the one who suggested BM and I have a session together.

In fairness to him, I know BM has presented herself quite differently---as though she at one point had a drinking problem but it's all in the past. I know for a fact she told the counselor she *slapped me.* And SS corrected her (DH was in the session, too) and said "punched, Mom."

He brought up that horrible night on the trip. He told his dad (the night BM was all in a tizzy about loading mins on the phone) that every time his mom gets mad, he worries that she is going to do that again. :-( Of course, the times it's been brought up in counseling sessions, according to DH, BM just gets incredibly defensive and says it's in the past, she can't do anything to change it. She harps A LOT on the fact that I am *unforgiving* and won't be around her.

GEE. Ya think? I won't be around her because she is mentally unstable, has proven herself to be violent AND because so much of her animosity/jealousy is directed at me. She has this odd complex about DH. I can't put my finger on it. I do NOT think she wants to be with him, but it's almost like she is territorial over him.

They dated off and on for 6 yrs, and didn't have SS until the end of that time period. Most of their relationship was when they were both in their early twenties. BM was 25 when SS was born, and then they broke up when he was 10 months old. I didn't meet DH until right around the time SS turned 2.

Anyway, right from the start, BM would always say things about me not knowing him like she did, about how SHE had a connection to DH I never would b/c they had been together soooo long, yada yada. It was strange.

As the years have gone on, well, now---I've been with DH longer than she was. NOT that it matters but I guess somehow in her eyes it does. And, really, DH is now 35. He's a TOTALLY different person than he was with BM. Obviously. (He was 27 when I met him.)

Anyway, we've been married for 3 years, have lived together for...gosh...5 yrs, I think.

But BM still hangs on to the fact that *we don't have biological child together.* Somehow she feels that elevates her position over me. I guess???? That, I think, is why she now leaps all over this issue with DH being DD's father.

It's so sick and twisted, it really is.

But whatever. It's not even about that--it's about how her behavior affects SS.

I don't know---the last time we went to court (2 yrs ago) was right after the drunk/punching incident. The GAL came down heavily on our side but, honestly, was largely unbothered by the nasty emails we printed out.

He basically shrugged and said to ignore it. I know it's weird but the courts--at least in our experience---pretty mcuh take me and DD out of the equation. They focus solely on BM, DH and SS. I understand that to a certain extent I wholly agree with you all that her behavior shows a strong degree of mental instability.

DH and I want to take SS to a family counselor we know. This guy is GREAT. He's super practical/level headed and I really think, if BM would somehow agree to go, he could MAYBE reach her.

BM does love SS---no doubt. And if somehow someone could show her the way her behavior is DAMAGING him, she MIGHT lay off. She's so sick that I really think she misconstrues HER dependency on him as LOVE. And vice versa. She thinks if SS is crying/missing her, then he must LOVE her so much. I think in her head she almost HAS to believe he cannot function without her.

On the trip up, the kids were journaling and he wrote in his journal something about being SO excited to go on a family vacation and all the things we were going to do. And how pumped he was.

And then---later he told DH he had to tear that page out about the "family vacation" because it would hurt his mom's feelings for her to read that. :-( UGHHHHH. He feels SO responsible for HER and HER emotions.

I think court may be the only way to resolve the constant calls/harrassment. BUT---I think if SS is going to be totally free of BM's clutches, SHE needs to change. All we can do is give SS the tools to deal with it. And hope as he grows/matures, it will get easier for him. :-( It sucks. It's so hard to see this damage being done and just feel helpless.

As we were driving home, SS talked to BM and he was telling her all the things he had gotten: t shirt, new water shoes, a stuffed animal, a new movie, etc. And she was talking so loud, DH and I in the front seat heard her say clear as day, "Guess what? I have a surprise for you at home."

She is just soooo jealous/dismissive of anything positive he has to say. It's little things like that ALL THE TIME that do damage. Over and over. A death by a thousand cuts, if you will.

As far as documenting the calls on a prepaid phone---no idea. The phone is GONE. DH had agreed to let SS use it on the trip but he is not allowing it to be used at our house now that we're back. We have the landline that is strictly for BM/SS and DH's cell, as well. That is more than sufficient in DH's opinion and I would hope a court would agree!

I think before we take any legal steps, DH is going to see about getting SS and maybe even BM into see the family counselor we know.

I think the issue with the counselor SS sees NOW is that HE seems to focus more on the split family issue. Like SS's issues are all because he goes back/forth and because his parents aren't together. In reality, that has VERY little to do with anything.

SS was not even ONE when they broke up. DD and I have been around since he was TWO. He's always split time 50-50 w his parents. This is all he's known.

His issues are because of his mom's drinking and her emotional/mental problems. And, in the past, I think, because DH did not do a good job of disengaging.

He is MUCH better now but still...

I just think the focus of counseling needs to be more on BM's relationship with SS as opposed to "Oh, things are hard because you come from a broken home."

KWIM?

Oh, and this is a great kicker. Forgot to mention this. After BM missed her baby sooooo sooooo much and could'nt live without him---LOL, DH was supposed to drop him off at his mom's around 7 pm last night, right? Well, as we were driving home she texted DH and said she wanted to go out last night and could we just keep him and could DH drop him off around noon today?

Love it. Love it. Love it. The concerned mom who cannot function without her child is all fine and good when SHE can go out.

Please understand---it was NO prob for us to have him, heck, we would have him all the time if we could. I just thought it was SO ironic that after pitching a fit pretty much the whole time (and in the days leading up to the trip) about how it was too long, she misses SS too much, yada yada-----then when we're HOME, she has plans! LOL.

Parent---we were not in UP, not that far north. We were very close to Traverse City. ;-)

it is nice that you had a good time in MI :)

BM is nuts, if she truly wanted you to forgive why would she insist on calling you and DD names? What a weirdo. She is just crazy, I also wonder if she is happy in her marriage, otherwise why is she focusing on her past relationship with DH?

"I know it's weird but the courts--at least in our experience---pretty much take me and DD out of the equation. They focus solely on BM, DH and SS. I understand that to a certain extent I wholly agree with you all that her behavior shows a strong degree of mental instability."

Two years ago, her behavior may not have been affecting SS as much as it is NOW. The fact that it has progressed and she is still doing the same things, but SS is more involved in her anger/jealousy toward you... as evidenced by his fits of fear over what BM will do next, show that it is IMPERATIVE that something be done. The matter NEEDS to be brought to the court... and in the context of how BM is involving SS by forcing the phone on your trip... then the texts that were sent to yours or DH's phones, and how upset SS got over all of it. BM has placed SS smack in the middle by forcing the phone issue & when DH tries to comply with her request for communication.. it turns into a free for all where BM can attack you & DH. If your DH waits, it will settle and the court may not take it seriously if it's brought up later. If it's not serious enough to bring up NOW, then the court may dismiss it later. I mean, if it's so important that you need intervention, you should run, not walk, to the nearest court.

Nobody likes to go to court... it costs a lot of time & money. But, it's one thing to document minor things for a later date. This is NOT a minor thing. She used the child to inject herself into your trip, causing emotional harm to the child. Having him put his father on the phone & yelling at the father was done directly in the child's presence. She could have just as easily finished talking to her son & dialed DH's phone to yell at him if that's what she was going to do. But, she involved SS by making that call to his phone.

Personally, if I were your DH... the phone might have been allowed to be brought but it would have been turned off & put in the glove box during the ENTIRE trip. SS is entitled to have communication with his mother. He is not required to be harassed & mentally abused by her, which is what she is doing. And I would have let BM take me to court so I can explain to the court just how off the wall she is. It would give me the chance to say "Your honor, we were on vacation. Every time BM calls SS, he becomes an emotional mess... tears, anxiety, worry about his mom, etc. and can't enjoy the trip. Of course if he wants to call her, I would absolutely allow it. But he should not be subjected to her repeated calls, wanting to know what he's doing every minute of the day and then being made to feel bad or guilty because she misses him & he's having a good time without her."

DH called back and tried to reason wirh her.....Why??? Do you really want this to stop, or not? When you have a high conflict person, there is NO other option than NO Contact, LOW contact..Block the text, block the phone, dont return calls, why continue to feed this??? Let HER take you back to court when you dont comply with HER demands, why is the onus on YOU??? One call a day...NO communication... My DH has been to court to stop crazy emails, it was a one time deal..He never responded to any emails, in court told judge, it STOPPED....No judge is going to force you to communicate with someone who is affecting your piece of mind and sanity..Get grades electronically, call only if health emergency..I just dont get why this is allowed to continue..If you cant co parent, then dont...DH managed the last 9 years with no contact whatsoever, worked very well for him with a crazed lunatic that just had to be told in no uncertain terms I WILL NOT ALLOW THIS TO CONTINUE...I m sorry, but what are you waiting for????? A mental breakdown?

I so agree with dotz. Sorry but dad continues engaging BM and allowing this to happen. Block everything with the exception of one daily phone call for SS, he can call mom once a day at night from dad's phone. She can yell and scream as much as she wants. Everything is off and her number is blocked.

I also agree with ima that all of this needs to be brought to DH's lawyer ASAP not later. And no, SS should not be allowed endless phone conversations and texts with mom.

"I think before we take any legal steps, DH is going to see about getting SS and maybe even BM into see the family counselor we know. "

I disagree with this, first of all finding family counselors for BM is not DH's job, it is going to be him again engaging BM and mingling with her. Why is he even considering getting therapy for BM? Frankly if my ex attempted to get ME a family counselor, I'd have issues with that.

Now SS absolutely needs to see a good therapist BUT this is nothing to do with anything else. DH has to make a phone call to his lawyer, he also needs to inform BM that her texts and emails will go to spam folder due to offensive nature of them and he will be hanging up the phone if she becomes offensive.

If my ex said anything offensive about me, my family, my SO or his children, texts, emails and calls would be blocked and the only time we would communicate in writing would be pick up/drop off or medical emergency. Certainly I would not be talking to him. DD would call him once a day from my phone. That's it. Sorry, BM continues insulting you and your family because DH continues allowing it.

When we first met, BM was making harassing phone calls and angry all capital emails (not about me, she did mention me once in awhile but not in offensive terms). SO never called her back, if he accidentally picked up and she started harassing statements, he hung up. If it was medical emergency (which sometimes it was since YSD lived with him), he emailed briefly, if her replies were of harassing nature, he never replied to anything. She even sent snail mail once because he refused to reply to anything else, I remember that letter, also offensive nature, he did not reply to it either. Eventually she stopped any contact due to his lack of participation.

In your situation DH needs to stop all contacts first but then immediately make a phone call to his lawyer like tomorrow.

"Sorry, BM continues insulting you and your family because DH continues allowing it."

You are totally right. And so is Dotz. And Ima.

All of you are right!

I for one would absolutely be THRILLED if DH would nix all communication between him and BM. Save for MEDICAL emergencies, there is simply NOTHING that cannot be handled via email.

I've tried. He does well for awhile and then lapses back into friendly. I shouldn't say *friendly* because he's certainly ten times better than before.

BUT for awhile there he was NOT taking ANY calls from her AT ALL. And it was great. Then little by little he started answering this and that and now, I'd say he talks by phone to her two or three times a week.

All over piddly nothing. And when BM's fine, it's fine. Annoying to me but fine. But it gives HER that constant line of communication. It gives her a sense of connection to DH. It gives her an in into our family.

UGH. I am going to remind DH of HOW important the distance is for our family.

Parent, as for counseling, I didn't mean FOR BM herself. But the way SS's counseling is set up now, he goes by himself sometimes and sometimes with just BM and sometimes just DH and sometimes all three. I just meant if we could get him seeing this particular family therapist, I assume BM would have *some* sessions with SS.

I didn't mean SHE would see him on an individual basis.

Thanks for all your input and advice.

Oh I see. My bad. I misunderstood that DH wants to get BM into counseling. LOL She clearly does need a lot of therapy though as well as meds, double dose LOL

I hope DH talks to his attorney about all this phone commotion.

So frustrating. SO FRUSTRATING.

That's about all I have to say about that.

(paging DH.... paging DH.... please stand up and be a man)

Dotz said: "Let HER take you back to court when you dont comply with HER demands, why is the onus on YOU???"

This is SOOOOOOOO true! I hadn't even thought this way about your situation, Love, or mine. I think if you approach DH this way, he would understand a lot better.

Of course SS will be in the fallout...that's a given, whether you (collectively, of course) comply with her demands or not. Even if you (collectively) did everything she wanted you to, and you even left DH and gave your DD a new daddy, like she said to, she would never be happy and would still continue to put SS in the fallout of her insecurities. The root of this is jealousy and no matter what you do, she will find something to be jealous of.

SD's BM is the same way. When DH and I split up 4 years ago, BM told DH that she hoped we got back together because she "never had a problem" with me. DH thought this was great! We got back together in August, and by September, she was actively trying to ruin things. She told SD that DH would rather watch DS's football games than SD's activities just to get SD to spill the conversation I had with her about lying (which had nothing hto do with BM at all). She also deliberately ruined a trip SD and I had planned to go to the movies by announcing (about 2 hours after DH told her that I was taking SD to the movies) SHE was going to the movies and needed to choose between going with her and me. About a year later, after SD moved away, she came back for Christmas and DH had an important meeting with the State about his job (not scheduled by DH). So while he had his meeting (just a few hours), I took SD and DS to the amusement park. BM got angry and said that DH shouldn't have gone to that meeting because when SD is there, she is supposed to be spending time with him and not me.

It's just jealousy...plain and simple, which means nothing will ever be right or ok unless it helps them out or is on their terms.

I also agree with Dotz. Allow 1-2 calls per day....maybe in the morning and at bedtime. Don't answer the phone for her other than those 2 times....do not respond to texts...don't respond to e-mails, etc. I would think that two calls per day are more than reasonable and she can take you back to court to complain they are not enough. I can not imagine a judge ordering that your ss keep a phone at his side for umpteen calls per day so he can give his mom a play by play of his day. Not only is it disruptive to your dh's time with him, but it is emotionally draining to the child!!!

Love, I'm so sorry about this. I was meaning to comment but I'm so ticked off at your DH that I've not been able to think of anything particularly helpful. Lots of good advice here though, and I will send my support as well.

"The problem is, DH is thinking it may be time/necessary to go back to court to modify this phone issue. It's becoming a serious problem. And it seems to both of us that BM's behavior is escalating once again. "

Are you kidding! That's not a *problem* -- it's GREAT! Great that DH is realizing that BM's actions have gotten way out of control and that they're damaging to SS. And GREAT that he's willing to take the necessary steps to fix the problem.

THANK HIM!

"DH called back and tried to reason wirh her.....Why??? Do you really want this to stop, or not? When you have a high conflict person, there is NO other option than NO Contact, LOW contact..Block the text, block the phone, dont return calls, why continue to feed this??? Let HER take you back to court when you dont comply with HER demands, why is the onus on YOU???"

My earlier comments were written before reading this from Dotz -- BRILLIANT! She's absolutely right. 100% BM is the one with the problem...

If you want to be super-reasonable, he could say "SS will be available for phone calls each day between 9:00 and 10:30 a.m. and 6:00 and 9:00 p.m. Other than those times, the phone will be shut off."

If you keep a call journal, documenting a completed call in the a.m. and another in the p.m., she'll seem even more like a nutcase for screaming about how it's not enough...

"If you want to be super-reasonable, he could say "SS will be available for phone calls each day between 9:00 and 10:30 a.m. and 6:00 and 9:00 p.m. Other than those times, the phone will be shut off."

If you keep a call journal, documenting a completed call in the a.m. and another in the p.m., she'll seem even more like a nutcase for screaming about how it's not enough..."

If you are really lucky, BM might decide to push the boundaries even more in her control quest, and to not call during those times but continue trying to call during random times she chooses. "I want the right to talk to my child and interrupt whatever he is doing at any given time that is entirely convenient to my schedule du jour" will probably not go over well.

I'm so sorry Love. As you know we have the same issue with SD and her mom. We've taken the phone away for the past few visits and although it works better, the entire time SD has this worried look on her face because she doesn't have her phone.

Also, the texts, the texted pictures "isn't my little sister so cute, aw she misses me...." blah blah blah so that we can't ever have a moment that's not infected with BM.

I'm not saying that SD can't talk about her little sister, or her BM or her other family... just that the constant intrusion makes such conversations ongoing. Which is tiresome. For me. And for DH because he really has to hold his tongue.

I kinda get Love's being a tad scared though of what trying to put a stop to the calls might end up doing...sending BM right over the very edge she's currently dangling off of.

This is not a rational stable lady. If a court tells her to knock it the &ell off, I can't assume this particular BM is just going to think 'oh, ok, my bad, sorry judge, sorry Mr Love/Love'. Instead I'd fear she'll go into compete and total panic (both with fear and anger).

I'd feel better if Love's family had a RO on this BM pre going to court and setting her off. And I think if BM is told she's wrong about being able to have assess via the phone whenever and how ever often she wants while child is at opposite home, she might just might do something really wild or even hold good and her threat to hide the child. Yeah, I get that seems extreme but this BM and her irrational over the top behavior scares me.

Maybe not, I don't know this lady nor know what is actually going on in her head, but anybody who runs out at 2am to fill a phone card in shear panic she can't reach her kid who is perfectly safe sound and sleeping and she is well aware of the fact is not somebody I'd want to assume will think a court order means jack.

"Maybe not, I don't know this lady nor know what is actually going on in her head, but anybody who runs out at 2am to fill a phone card in shear panic she can't reach her kid who is perfectly safe sound and sleeping and she is well aware of the fact is not somebody I'd want to assume will think a court order means jack."

I know. I feel the same way. She demonstrated in the past when I did have the RO that she didn't respect it. Even though her two violations were not of a violent or threatening nature, they were STILL contact with me. By definintion of the order, ANY contact was prohibited. So her "kindly" gesture of sending me an apology card was unwanted/illegal. Likewise, when she came onto our front porch to drop off a present for SS, that was also a direct violation. The order clearly stated she could not so much as set foot in our DRIVEWAY.

Anyway, I am concerned about how she's going to react to whatever happens.

At this point, DH is inclined to not go to court and to, like some have said on here, let BM take HIM to court if he doesn't comply with her crazy demands. I tend to agree. While the idea of being HEARD in court is very appealing, the thought of another long winded process with not much changing is not at ALL appealing.

I don't know. DH did email his attorney a list of concerns and a breakdown of what happened on our trip, so we're waiting to see what she thinks we should do.

Sigh. Life is just too short for this! I wish BM could somehow get that. I mean here she is, she's had SS since Sunday morning and DH hasn't bothered her, bugged her, harrassed her. He lets her have HER time with SS and things are calm. I just wish she could do the same. It would be easier and better for everyone: SS, DH, BM, me, DD, everyone involved!

It might be a good idea to wait UNTIL she decides to take him to court but dad should document all phone calls and keep the phone off the rest of the day, let her get mad

"I mean here she is, she's had SS since Sunday morning and DH hasn't bothered her, bugged her, harrassed her. He lets her have HER time with SS and things are calm."

Things may be calm in your house because there is no interaction with her, but my gut feeling is that she may be telling SS how daddy doesn't love/care about him because he doesn't even bother to call. Based on the things she's said to your DH, I get the impression she would do that. She wants her connection with SS to be exclusive & more important. She thinks it's normal the way she shows SS how much she "loves" him by calling & reminding him of it all the time. She may interpret DH not calling constantly as a lack of daddy loving SS... that is a disturbing thought I had. I would hope she wouldn't do/say those things.

Anyway, if your DH is going to wait until she takes him to court, then until then he should set the boundaries in his home & stick to them. If he bends over to all of BM's ridiculous requests & allows BM to continue to interject herself in your home/rules/routines/life... then there is no reason for BM to ever take him back to court & he (&you) need to resign yourselves to the fact that BM is in charge of everything. If he is worried about being the one in violation of the court order, then HE needs to bring it back to the Judge to get clarification of what the boundaries are so y'all can live in peace.

I don't get that BM is going to ever have an epiphany and say "Oh.. this isn't good for my DS, so I will behave myself." Nope. That's not gonna happen... she thinks she is right & nobody.. not DH.. not the Judge... not even her best friend or mother is going to convince her she is wrong. But, the court may intervene to protect SS from it & limit her contact if they knew all the details. If the court hears all the details & still doesn't see a reason to limit BM's involvement, then your DH has done all he can to protect his son.

Earlier when I said that DH should let BM take him to court, it wasn't meant to say drop the issue until BM makes the first move, because she may never & you may never have peace. It was meant as in: DH needs to stand up to BM & do what's in SS's best interests and if BM has a problem with it, then BM can file to go back to court & explain to the court why she thinks what she wants is more important than what DH thinks is best for SS.

"DH needs to stand up to BM & do what's in SS's best interests and if BM has a problem with it, then BM can file to go back to court & explain to the court why she thinks what she wants is more important than what DH thinks is best for SS."

100% agree Ima! You are so right. DH NEEDS to stand firm with BM and set the rules in our home and NOT give in. He is allowing BM to emotionally abuse SS even while he's in our home. It needs to stop.

I totally agree. Thanks for putting it so plainly and clearly. You said that very well!

Quoting Imma: She used the child to inject herself into your trip, causing emotional harm to the child. Having him put his father on the phone & yelling at the father was done directly in the child's presence. She could have just as easily finished talking to her son & dialed DH's phone to yell at him if that's what she was going to do. But, she involved SS by making that call to his phone.

Our court order specifically states we cannot do this.
It says: all communication regarding child and situations involving child related to but not limited to, discipling of child, issues regarding discipling child, child support and/or payment of child support, requests for change in possession schedule, and all other discussions including those of adult content shall not take place in front of/presence of, in hearing range or at a distance in which a child could perceive body language as that of a negative stance, shall not take place at any time. All such verbal communication shall be done between bioparents only on each Tuesday beginning at 830pm and ending no later than 9pm using a monotone and/or a tone used in order to conduct a business transaction. All verbal communication shall be followed up by email communication by custodial parent no later than 24 hours after verbal communication has taken place. Communication regarding these issues shall never take place in person or in the presence of significant others or third parties except court appointed therapist, Dr. Crazy Lady. Any party found in contempt of this order is subject to a fine of no more than $600 and is punishable by no more than 6 months jail time.

Good idea huh?

WOW myfampg... I LIKE that order!

wow, love's DH needs to have such order in his CO

It took 5 years to get it ... But I got it.
There is also a paragraph that says
Basically parents will not use disparaging comments regarding the child or the child's family. Parents will not allow anyone in the child's presence to use disparaging comments regarding the child and/or the child's family.

It is really ridiculous that some people have to have such orders put in to place but it's for a reason... We also have another one that says, neither parent will interfere with the other parents possession time except in an emergency. This wasn't really necessary for our situation but it might be for Love. We went in there with Tons of different ideas to make court orders up and we ended up walking out with more than half of them in our order.

That is an awesome order, Mattie!

And ditto myfampg--it is so sad that some people require such basic common sense stuff to be court ordered. But...if it's needed, it's needed.

I would love it if DH's order were like that! I something like that kind of goes back to the whole *parallel parenting* notion. And I am not sure BM would follow an order, anyway. She is so volatile and emotionally unstable that I think she'd still continue to fly off her rocker; but it would be so great to have it in writing so that if she were to violate it, there would be consequences for her actions.

Ima did you really use the word "ya'll"? LOL! I thought Californians strongly opposed that word (or at least that's what my California family says). I love it!

Love - I agree with Ima about not "dropping" it. She really did articulate the sentiment of Dotz' comment.

I totally understand the phone thing. SD's BM is VERY intrusive. So much so that DH has not had more than an hour alone with his daughter in over a year. And we think she listens in on SD's phone conversations, too. It's really sad and I don't see it letting up soon. But that is mainly because DH didn't fight for his place in SD's life. Even though he saw her all the time when she was young, he allowed BM to be the disciplinarian and boss of everything concerning SD, so she became SD's only "parent" and gave "fatherhood" to SF. DH never wanted to be the bad guy with SD, therefore, he gets little to no consideration now that she is a teen. IMO she never wants to p*ss off BM, or anyone she has to deal with on a daily basis, by "choosing" DH over them (could be a phone call or a visit).

Your DH has to keep fighting right now because it WILL make a difference when he is a teenager as to who he gives first consideration to. Remember the squeaky wheel gets the grease, and SS's BM is definitely the squeaky wheel here.