This is what it says it is?
They don’t look the same? Are they what they said?

Hi. Did I mention prestige?
If I did I am sorry, with them not pulling permits before ordering or doing engineering plans for a non enclosed area of the house, etc. I did not want to post their name.
I will check if it was my mistake.

Ah it’s on the sticker.
That was not intentional.

"They don’t look the same? Are they what they said?"

I am not sure what your question is here either. Those are all CGI products and they are Impact Rated. The two door sill pics are they both sliding doors? Is one pic the active and one the inactive panel? Not sure of your question?

Thanks so much!
I may not know the right questions to ask.
I got concerned when the stickers were falling off, then the CGI sentential stickers on the sliders to the patio had been glued on some sliders and CGI had to razor it off 4 windows, none of the other stickers they removed were glued on. They removed them easily. So I ask why. The workers didn’t know the answer.
It says the warranty is voided if the windows and doors get razored. The worker had no choice but to razor them off when they cleaned the windows and doors, it was really glued on.
This was a huge purchase for us, in financially difficult times.
I just want what I paid for.
That’s it. I was given a catalog at the time and a really clear contract. That was in early February. If they have different Criteria now, that has nothing to do with my contract in early February.
When the stickers were coming off and I was collecting them for the inspector, The company just printed new stickers and put them on, not the originals.
It was like printing money in your basement.
I was asked by my husband to buy CGI impact windows and doors for it’s thicker glass and clarity, etc. They started the project by delivering a PGT window WINDOOR and tried to insist it was a CGI fixed window and it was the correct window. It said WINDOOR right in the center of the window and it was the wrong size.
It’s been a difficult time.
The city found other things, not me, leaving me to search for help.

So to your question,
The base of the 2 different rooms with the pictures above of two series 150 sliders look different, one has a huge silver ledge and the other has a white short trim piece.
They both have the same sticker.
I haven’t check the etching on the sliders yet.
It’s very hard to get great pictures.
Can anyone tell me why the two doors are different?
Thanks Teri

"Can anyone tell me why the two doors are different?"

Not really. Do you have the paperwork telling the model numbers? Are the doors exactly the same otherwise?

Thank you again
The paperwork doesn’t match either. Some of the sliders look the same, some don’t.

Does it give the model numbers for each door on the paperwork? Can you screen shot the door info on the paperwork and let us help you that way?

Yes, but the installers are showing me two different things as invoices, which makes it hard for a homeowner to know which one is correct. Both invoice styles say different things.
Things have been getting weird🎃

It says the warranty is voided if the windows and doors get razored

Worst case would be scratches on your glass from being cleaned with a razor blade. If you don't see any scratches when looking closing at the glass, then all is well and don't worry about warranty is voided. Using a razor blade does not harm any other components of the window and you should be fine warranty-wise.

They started the project by delivering a PGT window WINDOOR and tried to insist it was a CGI fixed window and it was the correct window. It said WINDOOR right in the center of the window and it was the wrong size.

Of all the things you have mentioned, this is the most concerning to me. This mistake wouldn't fill me with confidence that the installation company has their stuff together and under control.

...the stickers were falling off, then the CGI sentential stickers on the sliders to the patio had been glued on some sliders and CGI had to razor it off 4 windows, none of the other stickers they removed were glued on. They removed them easily. So I ask why. The workers didn’t know the answer.

There are a few different reasons why some stickers would peel right off and others would be more difficult to remove, and almost all of those reasons would be innocuous; but combined with the other things that you have mentioned I totally understand why you have questions about that issue as well. You mention them printing new NFRC stickers, did they print new NFRC stickers on site while you watched them??

From all that you have said, I am not seeing a CGI issue here, but the installation company definitely needs to supply some answers to your legitimate concerns sooner rather than later. I am not suggesting that they are trying to cheat you in any way, but I am more than curious about how well they control their incoming and outgoing inventory to ensure that their customers get what they ordered.

I don’t know where the stickers came from. I do have cameras and can try and look.
I found them in the lawn.
I taped the sticker on the mirror for them and the inspector because it was obvious where they fell off.
There were windows and doors without stickers, then a new sticker would be on the window or door when it was put up. Such as, the front doors. I took pictures.
There were marks where they had taken two or three stickers off the windows and doors.
I asked the only workers who were there and they said I don’t know. I have gotten a lot of I don’t know answers, which is why I am here asking for help.
A couple of the windows etching says Cardinal Ocala according to one of the experts on this site. I have not taken a photo yet of every window or door, but they look all the same. My vision and camera ability is limited.
CGI, I thought made it’s own glass.
That is their name to fame, their extra thick glass and clarity. CGI has a stronger frame than PGT. PGT runs separate from CGI and PGT puts in Cardinal Ocala glass.
I love the internet. This is from both of their sites and others.
I don’t know who to get to check out my windows and doors.
Do you or anyone know an expert I can just hire?
I am not an expert, but nothing matches. I am sort of on my own here.
These are other stickers, my 20 year old polka window stickers didn’t look like this up north!
Thanks Teri

Yes, I do not think CGI or PGT have anything to do with this.

Oh everyone, that black on my sill, that has to be replaced.
This is an 80’s house, the tub sills and toilet were black. 🤣Then the previous owners had them painted white ( I didn’t question why they had a black toilet) I didn’t know until later, when it all started to chip. I do plan to replace them.

This is the installed front door with a new magical sticker.

This is the front door before installation

Sticker on a mirror. Wrong windows or door right?

On the before installation picture of the front door, there was a CGI sentential sticker at the top
A rectangle sticker which looks like it’s in the same place.
Then below a square sticker that said Cardinal. At the time, I didn’t know what these meant.
Thanks to the help here, I am getting a great education.
I was checking delivery, at least 4 windows were not my windows by just measurements. They took the wrong windows away. So, I knew I did not have all of my windows from the beginning.
Having moved many times, I know how to check delivery.
They refused to allow me to check if they were my windows. So I checked as best as I could later.
They wanted me to just count what was delivered.
As in, count to 33, windows or doors. That seemed off to me so I checked as best as I could noticing that one window was the right height but was not a wider commercial window and said WINDOOR not CGI.
They were stacked all on top of each other, this made checking most of the windows very difficult.

Ah the sticker on the mirror is a series 238

I believe I sent a picture of the wrong window. A series 238 was found in the yard.
I just need to find the series 238.
But some of the door stickers removed, I don’t know why.
Are all the sticker supposed to be left on?

Good morning Teri,

I have read your posts several times and not entirely sure of everything that you asked lets see what we can do.....and this is going to be long.

They refused to allow me to check if they were my windows. So I checked as best as I could later.

I certainly understand why the installers wouldn't want the homeowner to handle the windows prior to install since at that point whatever happens is the responsibility of the installers, I am curious how one of the regular installers who post here would handle such a request since this isn't something that I have ever dealt with directly...thoughts on this guys???

I was checking delivery, at least 4 windows were not my windows by just measurements. They took the wrong windows away.

To me this is a really big red flag (clearly it is to you as well), even more so if they are rearranging or even changing NFRC labels.

They were stacked all on top of each other, this made checking most of the windows very difficult.

Define stacked all on top of each other? Do you mean they were laid flat and stacked that way or they were vertical against a wall and stacked back to front?

A couple of the windows etching says Cardinal Ocala according to one of the experts on this site. I have not taken a photo yet of every window or door, but they look all the same.

That would be me and the three pictures that you posted all had logo/etching that if you know how to read the information tells you that the glass came from Cardinal's Ocala plant. If you would like I can tell you what everything in the logo means, but this reply is going to be too long even without that information so I am not going to post it here.

That is their name to fame, their extra thick glass and clarity. CGI has a stronger frame than PGT. PGT runs separate from CGI and PGT puts in Cardinal Ocala glass.

Although there are a number of different companies manufacturing laminated glass in Florida, if asked I would estimate that something close to 70% of all residential and light architectural/commercial impact glass in Florida comes from either PGT or Cardinal. With PGT responsible for their own window glass and Cardinal supplying many of the larger and smaller companies, including some owned by PGT, including CGI.

Laminated glass is used in impact applications, but there is no specific certification for the glass that is used in those windows and doors. Certification is based on the entire window system and not specifically on the glass. This means that the glass used in impact windows is more or less generic to that application, i.e. with some specific exceptions as long as the glass is manufactured correctly using the right materials and processes it can go into anyone's windows. The laminator (Cardinal in this case) supplies dozens of different customer's with what is essentially the same glass no matter who is receiving it.

"Same glass" meaning laminated...and yes there are literally hundreds of possible combinations of laminated glass with different thicknesses and different interlayers and so on available, with each of them maybe requiring different information in the logo/etching. So imagine if each one also requires specific customer information as well.

Without exaggeration that could mean hundreds of different logo's to choose from for the laminated glass manufacturer. And again this in no way affects whether or not you are receiving the correct windows, only that the glass etching may not really be the best way to proceed .

Although there is no specific certification for so-called hurricane glass, there are very specific certifications for safety glass, and laminated glass does meet the requirements for safety glazing certification. In fact, the majority of the information in the logo's that you posted is specific to safety glazing and nothing to do with the glass's suitability tp be used in a "hurricane impact" application. Additional information in the etching is there to indicate that this particular glass is appropriate for use in an impact application.

From a glass manufacturers perspective, it's much more efficient to use the identical generic etching for multiple customers, but many window companies want their own etching on the glass as well for obvious reasons. Typically this is done by either adding a second etching in a different location on the same lite that already has the safety logo, or else the company logo would be on the second lite of a dual pane or IG unit. This was what I was thinking when I mentioned in an earlier post that its very rare to see company info as part of the primary safety logo, and that was a total brain-fart on my part. Honestly not sure what I was thinking when I wrote that.

Clearly it is entirely possible to have the company and safety information in the same logo especially when the windows are monolithic (single lite and not dual pane) such as yours are. Cardinal and not CGI applies that logo and why some have CGI in the etching and some don't would be a question to ask CGI since they would dictate how and where that logo was applied.

Unfortunately while you are asking for a picture of a CGI Sentinel etching, and while at least some of your windows do have CGI on the glass, I strongly suspect that a logo with Sentinel listed in the information doesn't exist.

But some of the door stickers removed, I don’t know why.
Are all the sticker supposed to be left on?

Definite maybe depending on who you ask (inspectors or other "experts") or what you read.

I don’t know who to get to check out my windows and doors.
Do you or anyone know an expert I can just hire?

What part of Florida is home?'

Have you talked with CGI directly?

So I realized my question was bad. Here are three pictures.
The first two are of the only casement windows installed in my home. The third is of a casement sticker I found floating in the backyard and saved for the inspector and installers. I have all three, only two windows were installed.
Question one, can they just print a sticker and put a new sticker on any window or door?
Question two is why can they take some sticker off and only leave one on for the inspector?There were three different stickers on each of these casement window when they were delivered.
Thanks Teri
Sorry I had a hard weekend,
I was in the emergency room, still trying to deal with construction.
That might have been a mistake!🤣

Oberon476
I know my questions are bad.
I am about to fly to chicago for major surgery. I am in a lot of pain. The company has a stop work order with the city.
So that should give us some time.
We are in palm beach county. Is there any way of hiring you?
Maybe you could meet up with my husband and go through the windows and sliders and document things.
Then when I get out of the hospital, I will know rather than guess what I have and if it’s correct.
Teri

Teri,

Your questions are fine, just a bit hard to follow on some of them.

Can you send me a private message and we can discuss,

Oberon476
Thanks I don’t know how to do that and I’m going away for surgery (bad back)
I asked my husband to login
To help me.
He writes better also😂
I do my best but when I am in pain well, I get a lot of hmmmm
I don’t quite understand your question.
🤣😆🎃👻
It’s definitely me, not you🤣🤣
I try. When I get back hopefully the pain will be gone.

Teri,

I messaged you.

Hi Im new to this post -Oberon476 you seem to know a lot about windows and any help or info I can get from you or anyone on this post will be greatly appreciated. I am trying to decide between PGT Winguard and CGI Sentinel and very confused as to which is considered a better product (or at least a better product for me) Lots of confusing information out there by everyone including contractors so not sure which way to go. Quality and esthetics are both very important to me. Im in south florida on a canal just off the intracoastal. The front faces north and the back south. Current windows are the old awning style windows. I will be replacing seven windows. Most will be horizontal rollers with colonial grids in front of house. No grids on back facing water. Back window will be a large 25/50/25. There will also be two casement windows for baths (rain style glass being my preference). I’m opting for bronze tint (no LowE) My top priorities are no distortion or fogging, solid/strong frame, excellent locking system and symetry (some seem to have what appears to be one side slightly smaller than the other in the horizontal roller style and this will not do for me. They must be symmetrical or it will make me crazy lol). Im also trying to figure out if aluminum or vynil is better. Should I do 5/16 or 7/16 (does one have more distortion than the other)? Also what is the difference (pros/cons)of annhealed and laminated? Do either or both cause distortion? Which is most esthetically pleasing PGT or CGI? Which has better warranties and quicker to resolve any problems that may evolve? HELP ME!!!! lol my head is spinning!

Hi Marta,

First, aesthetics are more of a personal consideration and I would strongly suggest that you visit a dealer who handles the two windows that you are interested in and try them out. Look them over and see which one looks better to you and which one feels better to you.

I believe that CGI is generally looked at as being a bit higher-end window than PGT (although PGT owns CGI), but I can't say one way or the other because I haven't had much personal contact with either.

For a very basic aesthetic comparison:

PPG Winguard aluminum vs vinyl

I’m opting for bronze tint (no LowE)

What is your reason for preferring bronze tint rather than LowE? By any measure, LowE glass outperforms tinted glass, so curious why your preference.

My top priorities are no distortion or fogging, I will address this concern below

solid/strong frame, excellent locking system and symetry (some seem to have what appears to be one side slightly smaller than the other in the horizontal roller style and this will not do for me. They must be symmetrical or it will make me crazy lol). Im also trying to figure out if aluminum or vynil is better.

Aluminum probably fits my impression of your requirements better than vinyl, which is not a knock on vinyl in any way, simply my personal impression of what you are describing.

Should I do 5/16 or 7/16 (does one have more distortion than the other)?

I get the impression from your post that you have talked with contractors about windows, but have you met with any actual window professionals? If so what have you discussed?

By 5/16" or 7/16" you are specifically addressing the thickness of the laminated or impact lite and not an IG unit. Have you been told that this is an option? Or told this is what someone is trying to sell to you?

Also what is the difference (pros/cons)of annhealed and laminated?

Do either or both cause distortion? Which is most esthetically pleasing PGT or CGI?

This next reply is going to be long and somewhat technical.....sorry about that, but your questions aren't as simple to answer as they sound without more explanation.

Window glass can be annealed, heat-strengthened, tempered, or laminated. Impact windows always use laminated glass, but the glass used in the laminated glass make-up can be annealed, heat-strengthened, or tempered. And I know that doesn't do a thing to answer your question, so I will clarify.

Plain ordinary everyday window glass is annealed. Annealing is a process that cools the molten glass very slowly as it's being manufactured. Annealing releases stress and makes the glass easy to work with.

Annealed glass can then be fabricated into heat-strengthened, tempered, and/or laminated, or far more commonly it's simply used as is in many different glass configurations including most windows, but NEVER in any safety glass applications. Because annealed glass breaks into the sharp, dangerous shards that we are all familiar with, it cannot be used in any application where broken glass is going to be a danger to people.

Annealed glass should never be distorted.

To heat-strengthen glass it's heated close to softening point and then cooled relatively quickly (faster than annealed glass but slower than tempered glass) to introduce stresses in the glass. These stresses make the glass about twice as strong as annealed and result in a glass break pattern (when broken) that is somewhat safer than annealed, but still potentially dangerous. Glass is heat-strengthened specifically to make it stronger but it is not considered to be a safety glazing product.

Like heat-strengthened, tempered glass is heated to short of melting point but then cooled very quickly to lock stresses into the glass, specifically the outer surface is locked in compression and the inner core in tension. This results in glass that is twice as strong as heat-strengthened and four times as strong as annealed that can be used as a safety glazing because when it breaks it breaks into the tiny pellets that we are also all familiar with. Although the tiny pellets can potentially result in minor cuts if handled incorrectly, it's not going to seriously injure or even kill someone like can happen with annealed glass.

Because of the nature of the product, all tempered glass as a certain level of distortion. The potential for readily noticeable distortion increases with size and decreases with thicker glass. Also glass distortion is going to be more apparent when looking at the glass from an angle rather than straight on.

Laminated glass is two or more lites (sheets) of glass that are bonded to a plastic interlayer using heat and pressure. Laminated glass can be manufactured using annealed, heat-strengthened, or tempered glass. Annealed laminated glass can theoretically show distortion but generally if it happens and it's really noticeable that's the fault of the manufacture and not the product. That would be a glass flaw in my book.

Heat-strengthened and even more so tempered laminated glass on the other hand can be virtually distortion-free or it can be very distorted usually depending on the level of distortion in the original tempered or heat-strengthened glass; primarily because of nonparallel surfaces being bonded together. But most often it looks pretty good.

All that said, I am not trying to scare you because most laminated glass is relatively distortion-free, but I also don't want to paint a rosy picture because there is a potential (if slight) for at least some distortion in large part based on the skill of the laminator. And I am specifically talking about when looking straight on or close to it. When viewed as an angle, distortion in heat treated or laminated glass is a definite possibility because of the nature of the products.

Based on your preferences, PGT laminates most of their own glass while CGI uses Cardinal laminated glass. They are both very experienced and skilled laminators that do pay attention to the fine details, which is obviously best case; and not to say it can't happen, but I would be very comfortable with either.

I probably went a lot deeper than I should have so please ask about anything that I left hanging or that is still confusing.

I just hope that I haven't caused your head to spin faster!

Oneron476 - Lol yes it is spinning faster but i appreciate and like to have all details so thank you! From the pics you sent i can see i dont want vinyl - looks bulkier and has that uneven ( non-symmetrical) look. In my quest to make my decision I have been amazed at how little a lot of the companies selling products know or are willing to tell you. I have only contacted those that are top rated. Many have given contradictory information and that’s what has me confused. I dont know who to believe. I had initially decided on CGI and decided on a top rated company that someone here had also mentioned but when i went to see the windows they had a very small display and the window looked cheap - i dont know if it was an old model but it looked cheap. i went to a different company that had a lot more displays and it looked totally different. It looked very similar to that of PGT. What i didnt like was the locking mechanism. It looked flimsy or better said not secure enough where PGT has the double locks. In respect to the 5/16 vs 7/16, I was referring to the thickness of the glass. I dont know what an IG unit is lol. Should I? Most have said 5/16 is sufficient but my feeling is that thicker is better and thus leaning towards 7/16 but am concerned because someone somwhere said the thicker the more likely there is to be distortion. Someone also said that PGT heat strenghthens their glass which causes distortion. So, as I said, I’m totally confused! I do not want LowE because I do not like the greenish color. It would look awful with my home style and color. I just truly want to buy a good product that offers security and is esthetically pleasing to the eye without noticeable distortion when you look out from inside or look at house from the outside. Also want a company that has a good warranty and easily handles any problems should they arise. I want to weigh pros and cons of PGT and CGI- what pros and cons do you know of between the two? Im going this week to a different company that a friend used to speak with someone. I really wanted to use the top rated company but i did not leave there with a good feeling. Something just seemed off and i was surprised at their display or lack thereof and their lack of knowledge. Also felt uncomfortable about the CGI product they presented. It left me feeling that maybe all the reviews were from friends and family - lol. Are there any particular questions I should ask theother company when I go next week?

Hi Marta,

In respect to the 5/16 vs 7/16, I was referring to the thickness of the glass and most have said 5/16 is sufficient but my feeling is that thicker is better and thus leaning towards 7/16 but am concerned because someone somwhere said the thicker the more likely there is to be distortion.

The glass thickness 5/16 vs 7/16 is specific to laminated glass in this case and as mentioned previously laminated glass is two lites separated and bonded to a plastic interlayer, most often PVB or polyvinyl butyral, but there are other interlayers available as well.

PVB interlayer thickness for impact-rated windows is typically 2.28mm or .090", but again there are other options. Glass thickness can range from 3/32" to 1/4" and up. Specific to your question, the 5/16" is two lites of 1/8" glass plus interlayer, and the 7/16" is two lites of 3/16" glass plus interlayer.

If both products are made using annealed glass there should be very little to no distortion when looking directly at the glass. There should be no difference in optics/potential for distortion due to using different glass thicknesses. Per impact penetration performance, once again there is no significant difference between the two thicknesses.

Someone also said that PGT heat strenghthens their glass which causes distortion.

The primary advantage with the thicker make is structural strength. In that case thicker is better. Structural strength is concerned with wind loading, but also thicker glass is a bit less likely to break if it's hit with an errant baseball, for example. Once again keep in mind that breakage due to impact is not the same as penetration due to impact where there is no significant advantage with using thicker glass.

Heat-strengthening glass is used to improve the structural strength of glass. As I mentioned previously heat-strengthening results in glass that is twice as strong as regular annealed, so it's not uncommon for companies to heat-strengthen their glass to improve the design pressure rating.

I know that PGT uses a lot of heat strengthened glass in their impact products, but I don't know specific details of how much and where it's used.

Heat strengthened glass should look flat with little or no distortion. You as a consumer should not be able to see the difference between heat-strengthened and annealed in most cases, but laminating heat-strengthened glass can result in some distortion because you are looking at two sheets of glass bonded together with the potential for non-parallel surfaces which could result in visible distortion. How acceptable/unacceptable is totally subjective and what's barely noticeable and perfectly fine for one person might be objectionable for someone else.

Because visible distortion is so subjective, it doesn't have an industry-wide specification so it may not be covered by warranty if a customer doesn't like it. If that's a concern, ask about it, but don't be surprised if you are told it's not covered.

However I do know of, and have been involved with, situations where windows were replaced due to unacceptable distortion. No good company wants a customer bad mouthing them to friends and family because the company is being unreasonable and is refusing to act on a justified customer concern. On the other hand I am also aware of, and have been involved with, situations where it was the customer and not the company that was being unreasonable and the windows were not replaced (at least not at window company expense). It happens both ways.

I dont know what an IG unit is lol. Should I?

IGU or Insulating Glass Unit is the fancy name for dual pane glass. The vast majority of impact windows are dual pane or IGU, one pane is the laminated glass (which is a bit confusing since the laminated glass is actually two panes), and the other lite is monolithic.

The monolithic lite can be annealed, heat-strengthened, or tempered. Often when a customer is concerned about distortion, it's a tempered monolithic lite and not the impact lite that's at fault.

Although as mentioned, dual pane impact windows are far more common, it is still possible to find single pane impact windows in south Florida. What are you being told about dual pane versus single pane?

I do not want LowE because I do not like the greenish color. It would look awful with my home style and color.

LowE coatings significantly outperform tinted glass in keeping your home more comfortable, particularly for west facing windows, and not all LowE coatings are green. There are other options that I will discuss later.

Ok, PGT owns CGI, owns Eco, owns installer Prestige, who else did PGT buy up?

Who else is out there selling great quality impact windows?

I had pgt windows installed a couple weeks ago finally since ordering in May. The sliders were installed with this lip approx 2” up from the floor. I wasn’t told this was going to be there. It’s kind of a tripping hazard and I’d like to know your opinion as to other options. Installers told me it was necessary for code.

@stormyrunner - Pull on it. Slight even wiggle. It may be silicone'd in. It (the splash guard) should come loose. Clean up the frame and put a 90-degree aluminum angle from Home Depot (or something like it) with silicone to cover the tile cut and give it a clean finish. The aluminum angle is a clean silver color that matches the bottom of the PGT frame. Like this, for example, ALUMINUM ANGLE SAMPLE EDGE FINISH Keep in mind, this piece is needed for inspection so if you have not had an inspection from the city, do not remove this until after.

Thank you for that info!!
I’ll do what you’ve suggested- after these awful floors are removed - and the inspection is completed…(One slider was ordered/fulfilled incorrectly so hoping I don’t have to wait 5 months for it because we have to wait for that window to be installed before we can have the inspection!!)

@oberon476,

Where do you work? Very informative posts.

Thanks, and I am retired but used to work in the industry.

I have done occasional consulting for my former employer.

Does anyone know who makes CGI’s glass?

Cardinal

Thanks🤗

you're welcome!

Im back! not sure if anyone is still commenting on here but oberon476 was very helpful a few months ago and if you are still checking this would love some more input - had a lot of things happen in the last few months and had to put off windows but will be signing contract this week. I have decided on 7/16 glass because i believe thicker to be better all around. I also believe you said thickness reducess distortion please confirm if this is generally the case. If I go with 7/16 then CGI is out as they only do 5/16. I had decided on PGT but someone else mentioned Marvin as a high quality window. supposedly thicker framing and 7/16 standard glass. Do you have any thoughts on this? Also, Im assuming framing is thicker on 7/16 glass than 5/16 regardless of manufacturer. is this assumption correct? If glass is 1/8 thicker i would assume the frame would have to be 1/8 thicker. Is this correct? Any info is greatly appreciated.

In most products glass size does not change framing thickness. I personally don't feel the value of 7/16 over 5/16. The glass stop is usually different

WB Marta,

First a clarification - 5/16 and 7/16 refer to laminated glass which is two lites bonded either side of a plastic interlayer, those thicknesses are not the actual thickness of individual glass lites.

5/16" laminated glass consists of two 1/8" lites and 7/16" laminated has two 3/16" lites so that the 1/8" difference is really 1/16" x 2.

Different glass thickness does not mean different frame thickness, it doesn't even affect the width of the reglet or glazing channel in the sash. Because the vast majority of glass that goes into the sash is going to be a dual pane package that will be the same width (or depth depending who you are talking to), even when different glass thicknesses are used by changing the width of the spacer between the two lites, the overall IG width doesn't change.

In other words, if window company xyz has an overall glazing channel of 1" for their dual pane units, then that's what the IG unit has to fill. Depending on the window company the tolerance for the IGU width might be as little as 1/64".

Available options might be two 1/8" lites with 3/4" space between, or could be one 1/18" plus one 1/4" with a 5/8" width spacer/airspace. Or if they were manufacturing an impact window with 5/16" laminated and 1/8" mono glass then they would use a 9/16" spacer to once again come out at 1", and so on.

In your case Marta, you are being told 5/16 and 7/16 but are they selling a single laminated lite in a frame or are they going to be IG (dual pane) units? Either option is available in Florida, but IG is more common.

This part is a bit more complicated.....

The advantage of thicker laminated glass in an impact window has to do with wind resistance and potentially the DP rating. Simply thicker glass generally has higher load tolerance (wind and otherwise) than thinner glass, but thinner glass that has been heat strengthened or tempered has a higher wind loading tolerance than does non-heat treated (annealed) glass even when the annealed glass is thicker than the heat treated glass. Need to raise the DP of a given window? Temper the glass and it immediately goes up.

What all that means is that if the 1/8" glass in the 5/16" laminated has been heat treated and the 3/16" glass in the 7/16" has not, then the thinner 5/16" heat treated laminated glass has substantially higher resistance to wind pressure and low level impacts than the non-heat treated 7/16" laminated product. However note low level impact resistance. There is no appreciable difference between 5/16 and 71/6 laminated glass when subjected to the 2x4 hurricane impact test requirement. Heat treating glass might protect from an errant baseball but the 2x4 doesn't even notice the difference, heat treated or not.

The downside to heat treating is that it can introduce distortion in the glass, distortion that may even be unnoticeable in a single lite of glass can become quite noticeable when two lites are laminated together. I am not saying it WILL be distorted, far from it, just saying that the possibility is potentially greater. And most (but not all) distortion when it does occur is very mild and only visible at acute angles to the glass, often even affected by lighting conditions to see it.

Marta as you move forward the first things that you need to find out are,

a) monolithic lami or IG unit in the windows

b) is the glass heat treated, either heat strengthened or tempered

c) if an IG or dual pane, is the non-laminated (also called sacrificial) lite heat treated

d) if monolithic lami what LowE coatings, if any, are used in the construction

And all else being equal, monolithic can be okay and IG can be okay. Depending on location and application eat treated can be a good option, but non-heat treated might be just as effective. Coatings are a necessity, mono or IG, that one isn't negotiable.

Wow—I can’t believe I jumped into this discussion, caught up on all the posts just now/today and y’all are back at it today. Martaotero76 is just about to take the plunge. I live near and hang with contractors galore where I live in Pompano Beach. When they buy for themselves, they buy CGI and PGT. I’m in the midst of making the same decisions on a remodel. I was looking at ESWindows out of Colombia and I’m fairly certain I’ve ruled them out; although now I can’t decide between CGI and PGT. PGT purchased CGI, but CGI’s products are still as they were prior to the purchase (to my knowledge). My input is simply this: You can buy the best windows or doors in the world agonizing over every detail, but if your installer is without skill, you won’t be happy with the end result. I wish I knew how to send a private message, I would say more, but I can’t remember how to do it.

A good friend of mine who lives in Homestead had impact windows installed throughout her entire home. The installers were literally THE WORST. They ordered wrong sizes, they had leaks, delays, it was a nightmare for her. The job was almost A YEAR before it was completed to the city’s and the homeowner’s satisfaction and the permit was closed.

MartaOtero76–Make sure you choose an installer you’ve vetted/seen their work in multiple homes so you’re confident you’re giving yourself the best shot at a quality install and your job is done right the first time.

I’m also interested in which manufacturer makes an impact Low-E with light grey instead of that hideous reflective green tone. No me gusta the green. The previous owners of our home purchased and installed the green colored Low-E sliders. This home also has plain clear impact windows. I can attest to the Low-E fending off more heat; however, if you put a shade over the window or door to avoid direct sunlight, you don’t need the Low-E because the shade does the job; no?

GM, I would like to add that I had CGI Sparta laminated 5/16 installed a few weeks ago. these are the worst windows ever if you're looking for noise reduction. they do absolutely nothing for noise reduction. I called CGI and was advised that Sparta is not tested for noise reduction and they have to insulated for any sort of noise reduction. Now, I am stuck with these awful windows.

C Cruz—thank you for the information. So many things to consider when choosing windows and doors and everything else. I’m sorry you’re not happy with your end result. ;(

@oberon476.. thank you for the information. Your thoughts on Mr. Glass quality. I am in South Florida. I understand from the vendor that they are Miami-Dade county approved (supposedly the highest rating in So. FL) and the 2nd largest publicly traded Cat5 door. I have PGT in my home. This would be for a single door in a condo. Any light you can share on Mr. Glass would be great. Thanks in advanced.

Daisy Garcia,

I am not really familiar with Mr. Glass (and I really dislike their logo btw), but in wandering their website they do have their product approval on the website to review, so I did.

Minuses are the stupid logo, that they are not listed on NFRC, and that they use aluminum box spacers in their IG units. I would also like to know where they get their glass since the video tour showed no evidence that they do any glass fabrication, but that is simply curiosity.

Pluses are that they offer both Trosifol and Saflex PVB as well as SentryGlas (SG or SGP) interlayers in their laminated glass.

The product approval indicates that they use Dow 795 and Dow 995 for glazing their impact units (my personal recommendations).

They have tested to MDCA standard at +80/-100 psf - that's huge.

In my opinion the pluses far outweigh the minuses, which were really not particularly important in any case.

That said, I know nothing about their warranty, customer service, quality or durability of their framing materials, or door hardware. Not knowing where their glass comes from, I can't comment on the potential quality, or lack of, of their glass, so I can't make any comments to those areas or any other intangibles.

On their video tour, I did notice a Schuco window in a frame (likely s demonstrator since they apparently offer Schuco), and I did see several glass racks that might be from Cardinal, but not certain, and others that were not.

Cintia Cruz,

Typically laminated glass offers a noticeable improvement over regular glass when it comes to blocking outside noise, the major exception being if the interlayer used was SentryGlas which is the strongest interlayer for impact but does nothing to block sound.

I don't know if the Sparta has an SG option or not, but if you can post a picture of the logo I can tell you what interlayer you have in your impact glass.

Terese V

if you put a shade over the window or door to avoid direct sunlight, you don’t need the Low-E because the shade does the job; no?

Any time you block the sunlight from hitting the glass directly you will have a definite improvement in controlling the temperature, but LowE coatings will still provide even more improvement, particularly if any glass is facing west.

Dual silver-layer coatings tend to be much more neutral color than triple layer (green), but they don't have the same level of protection that triple silver-layer coatings offer, but still much better than clear glass.

Depending on manufacturer if you want a more neutral / less visible coating then ask for something with a visible GLASS transmittance of around 72%. These are often referred to as LowE 2 coatings. Three most common that are (IMO) best for what you want are Cardinal's LoE-272, Vitro's Solarban 60, or Guardian's Climagard 70/36.

What coating ultimately depends on where the window company gets their glass.