HELP!!! Island legs look wrong - granite install Monday 8AM

14 years ago

Help! I just noticed that I think the legs on my island are installed wrong. Well, I am not sure if they are 'wrong', but different than what I thought. This island has been the total focal point of my kitchen and I feel sick. I don't know what to do. I thought that the legs would sit on the outside of the wooden pieces that connect them. In all the pictures I look at that is how they are. My island legs are inside of them - the wood pieces surround these beautiful legs.

The granite installers are coming at 8AM Monday AM and I don't know if there is time to fix this before they come. My contractor left yesterday - kinda showed me the island but we were focused on the floor so I didn't notice it then. He won't be back until Monday AM. The granite people will charge me $150 if they show up and we are not ready to install. What can be done? Is there some way that the legs can be taken off and the wood be cut to abutt the legs? Am I being too picky? Is this not a big deal?

Thanks so much

Here is a link that might be useful:

Comments (18)

footballmom
14 years ago
I think we need a more complete picture. The legs cut off before floor level.....
ebse
14 years ago
Well, first off I think your island is lovely. Second, pretty much anything can be fixed, its just a question of what you are willing to pay and how long you are willing to wait. I can't really picture how they would go outside though? Don't you need the legs to support the island top?

I do not think you are being picky! This is a huge investment of your hard earned money, and you should be happy! If it were me, I'd pay the 150 and have the contractor come back and fix it.
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I am with Pharaoh on this one. With the two big posts on the one end, it is impossible to get the same amount of overhang on all sides. So far we have just been talking about the two shorter ends and the overhang there not being equal. Of course they are not equal. The two posts extend out further than the rest of the perimeter of the island. Say, for grins, that you convince the granite company to remake the top. They make it so that the overhang above the posts is equal to the overhang above the apron on the other side of the island. Now look at the view of the corner like you posted alone, above. The lip extending over the short, end side of the island will now be longer than the lip over the post on the long side of the island! You would look at the corner, see the different overhangs on two sides of the same post and say it was wrong. What you saw when you looked at the island the first time was that the lip over the posts did not stick out as far as the lip over the side without the posts. You are right. This is true. It is true because the POSTS THEMSELVES create the asymmetry. Go stand at the end of the island with one post on each side in front of you. Measure the overhanging lip of granite above the apron that is between the posts. If that is the same amount of overhang that exists above the apron on the other three sides, the top was made correctly.
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Thanks for your responses. Mindimoo, your steel structure is awesome. No worry there. I wish I had researched this much better before having my kitchen demoed and ordering the granite. You both have some good points and good questions. My granite is 3 cm. It is black (Labrador Angola) which I am told is the strongest of all granite because it is much less porous than the lighter colors. The steel rods are threaded and they are imbedded in the bottom of the granite, covered by epoxy. So, water isn't an issue. There are 5 rods total. I don't know what it's called or what size it is. Looked like 1/4 to 1/2 inch. They say it's made for granite and the concept is similiar to what is done with concrete. One rod is in front of the cooktop cutout. One on either side of the cooktop extending to the 13" overhang, and two on a diagonal to each corner on the other end of the island which is where the 15" overhang is. These two probably don't meet the 2/3 to 1/3 rule. My original plan was to do something similar to the picture above in plywood. When I contacted my Lowe's cabinet installer to say I wanted to go back to Plan A he said it was overkill. He says he has demoed numerous kitchens where they had used the steel threaded rod and it is really difficult to break the granite. He was confident in their approach. I like and trust this guy but he is super busy so I hope he wasn't just telling me this because he didn't have time to help me prior to the install. Anyway, the granite was installed today. The fabricator gave me a written warranty that it won't crack as long as we don't sit or stand on it. I still have mixed feelings about the support. I still have the option of putting corbels on the end of the island although I wanted to avoid them because they are tough on the knees. But then again I wanted 15" there for the extra leg room since that is what many seemed to recommend on this forum. Also I could have L brackets on this end. There are doors on both sides of the island but the ends will just have panels (fake doors) which can be cut or notched for corbels or L brackets. I'm thrilled that the granite is finally in. I've been 2 1/2 months without a sink. I don't want to regret not researching this more than I did or rushing into things. If only I knew about this forum sooner. The feedback has really been great! Please let me know what you think. Thanks again!
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I review the plans of everyone working on my house. [...] My general contractor and the granite fabricator/installer will warrant their work, and like everything else going into my house, I want to double check, and I want them to justify their plans if they differ from what I have learned from Professor Google. We don't have their plans though, if that sketch was given to you as their plan for support, then you are in trouble and need to hire another professional. To evaluate their plan we need to know what system they plan to use to limit flex. Make a wall beyond the cabinets, or close in the ends. for additional support. I am not a huge fan of walls that dissect long pieces of granite unless the people building the walls really understand what they are doing. I think the post is a much better idea that accomplishes substantially the same thing as a wall. ----------------------------------- When we talk about supporting granite we are talking about one thing. Limiting the tensile pressures. Granite, just like concrete, has great compressive strength and rotten tensile strength, when granite flexes you get compressive force on the concave side and tensile force on the convex side. Moving from theory to reality in granite we really have to do three things, (1) limit flex, (2) limit movement and (3) avoid isolation. Many inexperienced people will address movement and flex while ignoring isolation and when that happens you get the result that Joseph posted above. If we look at the brackets that are often used for granite islands we can see that their real purpose isn't to stop movement but to avoid creating a fulcrum so that the entire sheet of granite moves together. http://www.countertopbracket.com/countertop-island-support-brackets-hidden-p/ib.htm I guarantee you that something heavy placed on that overhang will cause the countertop to tip slightly in that direction, but the brackets ensure that the movement is carried past the edge of the cabinets so that the entire piece moves rather than creating a fulcrum at the back of the cabinets that isolates the overhang from the cabinets. Too much movement must be avoided because then you get the shock of the cabinets moving which can be bad so walls in long islands may be necessary but when they are you must avoid isolating them. In other words, in Joseph's example above had the brackets been extended and tied into the cabinets in such a way that the entire piece was tied together or tied to the cabinets sufficiently that everything moved together, the break is unlikely to have occurred. Technically the brackets in Joseph's post above did exactly what they were designed to do. They eliminated breakage at the fulcrum...They just created a new fulcrum because their designer didn't understand the problem. From a physics stand point, a post is nothing but a very short wall. You can get substantially the same results from a post that you can from a wall, by adding cost. Essentially the white arrows would be a wall while the red arrows will be a post. So long as the post doesn't flex more than a wall (which it will compress less than a wall), mechanically you can achieve the same thing. However, you create more isolation points, all of the red arrows need to either have very little movement at all, or be tied together in such a way that they move together (note the arrows actually form a circle). Achieving no movement is much harder than tying them together in such a way that the limited movement extends through the area. A 2" tubular frame under the entire granite surface would absolutely be preferred, as that is the best way to carry movement to the entire counter. My original advocacy for plate was in opposition of L brackets rather than a tubular frame, to avoid isolation. I think you can achieve much the same result with a steel plate (a 36" steel plate is roughly equivalent to about 20 brackets) but I am not opposed to a tubular frame, especially if you are going as deep as 2". Anyway, this is just my 2 cents. In the end, to evaluate the solution that your contractor is using we need to know that.
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Stacey Collins
14 years ago
I think she means that the skirt pieces would abut the legs square tops, rather than overlap it... is that right?

have you called your contractor on his cell???

How badly is this going to bug you?

Were you clear with the builder, were there clear plans, drawings, etc? If there were, I think you should call him on his cell and ask him to fix it. If not.... ?????

How handy are you? If it were me, I might try to take it apart and put it togther myself, but only IF it were going to bug me a lot.

Good luck-let us know...
momto4kids
14 years ago
How far does your countertop overhang the legs? If you have quite a bit of overhang, you won't notice the skirt pieces as much. If you don't have much overhang, then yes, I see what you're saying.

If I thought it was something that would bug me down the line, I'd go ahead and fix it. Perhaps the contractor can be working on them while the granite folks are installing other pieces???
morton5
14 years ago
What kind of overhang are you having? Maybe the granite template was not designed for the legs to be outside the skirt. In which case, I doubt things can be changed now.

It does not look weird to me at all, but I can't say I've studied other islands as you have. In fact, if the granite is overhanging the skirt by just 3/4", it is how I would want it to look.
steff_1
14 years ago
You were expecting a mortise and tenon type of joinery on the legs. What you got is not nearly as nice and looks a bit amateurish. You would need to check your order or contract. If the legs were not ordered that way, the installer would likely need to take them to a shop to have them properly prepared.

Can you have the granite installers work on other parts of the kitchen until this is worked out or cancel the appointment?
michellemarie
14 years ago
Can you please post one of your pics that show the island legs the way you envisioned them?
Also, if this makes you sick, you are going to have to put the granite install off. Obviously, you have an idea in your mind how the island is supposed to look. A hundred people on this forum can tell you that the way the legs are installed now looks fine, but you won't be fine with it. If you have to talk yourself into liking something, it isn't worth it. It may cost some $$$ to remedy this install, but that's what happens in remodels. You save some here, you spend some more there. Good Luck. We have all felt the way you do about something in our kitchen renovation journey.
kiki9871
Original Author
14 years ago
Thank you all for your input. I know that it looks ok and most people would not notice that the skirt pieces do not would abut the legs square tops, rather overlap it. I have called the contractor on his cell telling him to call me back regarding a problem with the island that needs to be fixed prior to 8 AM monday. I haven't heard back from him. The schematics that I have and the discussions that we have had were about the skirt pieces abutting the legs. That being said, we have off put the granite install 4 times and hubby says no more. He thinks maybe we can do a temp fix before the granite and then more perm one after? I kinda want to fix it myself right now, but then I have no recourse and it is a custom made island. I am hoping that the contractor can fix it on Monday and have the granite guys work on other stuff.

Worse case - maybe we keep it? Does anyone think it looks weird? It did take me a day to notice...
Fori
14 years ago
Worse case? It's really not bad. Not even weird.

Hope you can get it the way you want, but if you didn't tell me it wasn't what you'd expected, I'd be asking "what the heck is wrong with it!?".
barb5
14 years ago
Is this more like how you imagined it would be?

{{!gwi}}
katiee511
14 years ago
I agree with morton5 - how was it templated? Which brings up another question...HOW did they template the island if it wasn't completly built? Are they legs just decorative and the top was already there?

I know my GC was rushing us to template even though our sink cabinet wasn't pulled forward yet for the bump out. We refused and accepted the delay so that the template could be done only after all cabinets were in their intended place. The GC said it would be no big difference since it was only being pulled straight forward. The fabricator refused to 'guess' at the template before cutting the stone.

Your GC and fabricator need to give you the details on the stone and exactly where each part needs to be to fit correctly AND as you expect. Good Luck!
ludy-2009
14 years ago
Call the granite people and leave a message. They will get it before they load on Monday. Postpone the granite people until you are certain and satisfied. Worst case, it will cost you a week, but it will be worth it.
pharaoh
14 years ago
Can you post a photo of the drawings for the kitchen that show the legs?
jan_jan
14 years ago
Maybe I'm weird but I think it looks fine. I would never notice in a million years and might not even pick it that way if I had a choice. If it is giong to bother you then make them fix it and wait on granite.
remodelfla
14 years ago
I wondering why the carpenter couldnt just re-cut the apron to abut the legs. It should not compromise the integrity of the island. Your floor looks yummy BTW... Travertine?
steff_1
14 years ago
The legs do not look okay, especially if it is not what you ordered. The standard installation is for the top block on the legs to make up the corner. Clearly the installer did not follow the drawing and you should not accept it. See link below.

If there is a problem with the granite installer, the contractor should deal with it.

Here is a link that might be useful: Island leg install details
tullerbruc
14 years ago
I just now found this thread and I hope everything has worked out for you ok. I've designed and built 100's of islands with 100% satisfied customers. The photo of your island is a bad design as far as the legs are concerned. The legs are one of the focal points of an island and putting them behind a valance makes the integrity of the leg look terrible, Some advice for all of you. Never use a GC to have anything to do with your kitchen but build the room. I've yet to meet a GC that was a kitchen designer and most of the ones I know want to go the cheapest route with "their" cabinet maker to make more profits off you. I work with GC's and they know to send the customer to me and leave the cabinetry and tops up to the client and myself. Be it noted that I still have to pay them a "finder's fee" for sending their client to me.
It seems to me there was some not good communication between all parties involved which there can be to many parties involved in a kitchen design and the build of the kitchen.
If possible please give us another photo of what your end results were and I think we all hope you got what you wanted.
brickeyee
14 years ago
"I wondering why the carpenter couldnt just re-cut the apron to abut the legs. It should not compromise the integrity of the island."

The leg-apron joint presently is probably a diagonal wood or metal plate and a fastener with a lag screw into the leg and a nut attaching to the diagonal under the island.

The same method could be used if the aprons are shortened and the diagonal plate moved.

What was ordered is going to decide who pays.

HELP!!! Island legs look wrong - granite install Monday 8AM

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footballmom

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HELP!!! Island legs look wrong - granite install Monday 8AM

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