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Schuler vs Kraftmaid cabinets

mama2cats
11 years ago

Hello,

I have learned a lot from perusing this forum for the last 10 years I have owned this house, and I am finally ready to embark on my kitchen remodel (of the budget variety). I have whittled my cabinet choices down to Kraftmaid and Schuler. I have read both good and bad on the net, they both look fine in person, and Kraftmaid is cheaper. I don't want to base my opinion solely on price, as Schuler does fit within my budget, albeit at the higher end. So I would be interested if there are any reasons why I should not go with Kraftmaid over Schuler. Thanks for any and all opinions!

Molly

Comments (43)

  • tmy_jax
    11 years ago

    Molly, the link below is a previous thread regarding KM vs Schuler.

    My boss did a kitchen & bar with KM and they turned out beautifully. He had some typical issues with cabinets, either damaged or staining issues. All replacement pieces were handled very quickly by KM, without any questions.

    I am leaning toward Schuler based on some of the finishes I prefer. And I seem to recall reading here on GW that Schuler offers more flexible customization (albeit pricey)for cabinet sizes that aren't quite "standard".

    HTH and I'm looking forward to reading the feedback you get from others.

    Here is a link that might be useful: Previous KM vs Schule thread

  • jerryp
    11 years ago

    I just went through the process of planning kitchen remodel. I considered Schuler, Diamond and to a lesser extent Kraftmaid. We eventually chose a custom product but I would have been comfortable with either Schuler or Diamond.

    I am no expert on cabinets, but sentiment I got from Internet searches, this forum, and talking with KD reps in stores, the ranking would be Schuler, Diamond and then Kraftmaid. I visited about 6 Lowes stores looking at cabinet displays, mainly because each store has limited amount of Schuler on display. I asked reps in each store how they ranked them and Schuler was always considered best. The main reason cited was a better finish.

    To be fair, I did not always ask their opinion of Kraftmaid, but when I did, it was considered less than the other two.

    I finally went with a custom product because they offered a better cabinet at a lower price. I was surprised at that and you may or may not have the same experience in your location. But you may want to check that out before making a final decision.

    Best wishes in your remodel.

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  • mama2cats
    Original Author
    11 years ago

    Thanks to both of you for your info. I did not find that previous KM vs Schuler thread in my search so thank you very much tmy jax. I had pretty much decided on Schuler until I heard about this big Kraftmaid Sale. But I don't want to base my decision just on that so doing further research!

    Molly

  • tmy_jax
    11 years ago

    Molly-
    Schuler cabinets are the same as Medallion so you might check to see if there's a local dealer that could also provide a quote... never hurts to see if they have different promote pricing in effect
    - tmy

  • mama2cats
    Original Author
    11 years ago

    That is how I found Schuler in the first place :) I had fallen in love with some Medallion cabinets at a local cabinet store but they were more than my budget allowed.
    Then I read here that Schuler is the lower priced version of Medallion so I started investigating those. I got a preliminary quote on the Schuler but the kitchen person at Lowe's also recommended Kraftmaid (she is more familiar with them than with Schuler) and she told me about this huge Kraftmaid sale going on so I got started looking in that direction. But I think my heart is still with Medallion/Schuler. Time will tell!

    Molly

  • AboutToGetDusty
    11 years ago

    My Schuler order is in boxes in my garage (we're in the middle of demolition!) I considered all three mentioned above, and went with Schuler based on finish. Putting the three together, the Schuler to me looked a lot finer. Good luck!

  • jerzeegirl
    11 years ago

    I used Schuler cabinets in my previous kitchen and just loved them. I don't think they are a lower priced version of Medallion - I think they are Medallion cabinets, re-branded for Lowes. The shipping boxes actually had Medallion stamped on them. If you look at both web sites you will see that they are the same cabinets with different names. There are different levels of Schuler and they will customize sizes if you need them. We got "best" level with the ends finished to look like the cabinets themselves (not just a door stuck on) and they were really furniture quality. I miss that kitchen!

    I don't have an opinion about KM because I never used them.

  • senator13
    11 years ago

    We have Schuler in our bathrooms. Overall, I think they are good. Some of the faces are a little crooked, or they don't have the same margins all around, but it isn't dramatic.

  • cakelly1226
    11 years ago

    Have you looked at Diamond? Ours is a budget redo and our cabs were affordable but beautiful. We got our cabs from an independent dealer who has his own Diamond level, so they are two levels above what they offer at HD (3/4 plywood construction, all self close drawers and drawer insets in bottom cabs, solid wood drawer fronts and door surrounds with veneer inserts) but we love them. Great customer service and we were able to change out two drawer fronts that had questionable knots in the wood without an issue.

  • okpokesfan
    11 years ago

    We put Km in a bathroom remodel 9 years ago and a kitchen remodel 3 years ago. I have had no problems with either of them (and we are not necessarily easy on cabinets).

    Good luck!

  • rhumbob
    8 years ago

    My understanding is that Medallion offers three lines - platinum, gold, and silver. The Schuler cabinets seem to most closely correspond to the gold line. We checked out the Schuler cabinets at Lowes and they seem to be a great cabinet. We will either go that way (Schuler/Medallion) or Crystal.

  • dmcpuck
    8 years ago

    I used Schuler cabinets in my kitchen and bathrooms in my second home in Wisconsin, they turned out beautiful. I have soft-close drawers and pull-outs with soft close which also work great. I have full extension drawers that operate perfectly. There was many options Schuler had to chose from to make a kitchen or bathroom very high-end. I have been looking for custom cabinets for my primary home and can't seem to find anything as nice so, I am going to use Home depot for my primary home in Illinois as well. I felt the service from home-depot was very good and the installer was great.

  • Lori Guercio
    6 years ago
    last modified: 6 years ago

    Hi does anyone have Schuler raised panel white icing cabinets ...trying to find out if they appear too white I am looking for a soft white

  • Michael Williamson
    6 years ago

    We are in the process of purchasing Schuler cabinets with a white icing finish. While this is the lightest or whitest of the Schuler whites, it is NOT stark white by any means. We are fully convinced this is the white to go with considering most classic look, best flexibility with complimentary wall paint colors, etc. To soften it up, we are using pane glass fronts on some of the cabinetry. This gives some additional depth, architectural interest and is inherently darker in the window area which softens the overall look of the wall of cabinets. Good Luck! We just had final measurements confirmed and order today or tomorrow....6-8 weeks from install we think.

  • mariacc2
    6 years ago

    Hi! We have white icing raised panel from Schuler ... Please be advised, as we found out after the fact, that Schuler painted cabinets are framed in maple and the center panels are engineered wood! Engineered wood is not very durable with regard to water... Kitchens and bathrooms are wet places!!!

  • AboutToGetDusty
    6 years ago

    mariacc2, it depends which style panel you go with. When I ordered my Schuler White Icing cabs, I made sure to pick a solid wood door. Some door styles are solid wood, and some are not.

  • mariacc2
    6 years ago

    We thought our cabinet doors/drawer fronts were solid wood too! (I ordered the style called Princeton in painted maple) We have this style in our kitchen (painted in the color divinity and in the bathroom with the color white icing. I found out six years after they were installed that they are not solid maple doors.

    ... Last week, water spilled on the sink cabinet panel and it caused "blistering." After this happened I examined my other doors and panels carefully and noticed it on others as well. The "blisters" are about the size of a pea.

    I emailed and then called Schuler right away and they told me that their painted door panels are engineered wood. Only the frames are solid maple. I was not happy... to say the least. My Lowes rep is helping me thank God!. They were perfect for about 5 years. This past year, I noticed some light brown lines on the raised panel. And now, moisture is causing swelling underneath the paint layer.


  • mariacc2
    6 years ago

    Do check with your Lowes rep. If you look at the Schuler website... it says "solid wood," but Schuler uses MDF and considers that "solid wood." I have called and emailed. This is what they use for their painted cabinet center panels.

  • avocadogirl
    6 years ago

    I wonder if people are if being confused with veneer flat panel doors and reverse raised panel doors. Typically reverse raised doors will give you solid wood doors. You can double check in the description of the sample door, it's usually next to the overlay description.

  • mariacc2
    6 years ago

    You should really call Schuler. They will tell you the truth about their painted doors.

    All their painted doors have MDF as their center panel. Even if it says "solid wood." Schuler considers MDF to be solid wood. They admitted this to me on the phone.

    Some of the reps at Lowes don't even know that the "solid wood" description means the only "real" wood present in the door is the frame. The rest is MDF. Please do yourselves a favor and call the manufacturer. This is another case of "buyer beware."

    This is a great article on MDF being used by so many manufacturers ... https://www.joshuakennon.com/why-i-avoid-mdf-and-furniture-built-with-mdf-and-think-you-should-too/


  • _sophiewheeler
    6 years ago
    last modified: 6 years ago

    All GOOD cabinet manufacturers use MDF because it's stable and smooth to paint. The idiot ''real wood'' snobs want absolute paint perfection and no cracks, which never happens with real wood. Solid wood doors will all crack at the joins when covered in paint. You can't have it both ways.

    MDF panels is used in every single quality manufacturer's painted cabinets, and as MDO, on the cases. And that article is ignorant BS full of half truths.

  • mariacc2
    6 years ago

    MDF is easier on the crafter, not the consumer.

    Let your dog pee on MDF baseboard trim... It will swell up like a balloon and explode through the paint. I saw this in a house in Texas. Bad dog but cheap contractor!

    I have solid real wood furniture of my grandmother's that has never blistered or acts the way MDF does. Real and Natural are always better and enduring.

    MDF is also filled with all kinds of toxins. MDF is only used because it's cheap... not because it's better.

    I've learned the hard way... never again... always know for sure what you're paying for.This is what is in your cabinet if the panels are MDF ... I've seen this at high end outlets... furniture with a chipped corner and MDF oozing out.

    ... nothing made of MDF is enduring - that's for sure!

  • PRO
    The Kitchen Place
    6 years ago
    last modified: 6 years ago

    If you want real wood with a painted finish...like granny's wood furniture...it will look vintage too...with splits and joint separation...even new out of the box. It's the nature of the beast. MDF is more stable. Even my high end line, Plain & Fancy, uses some MDF in their painted cabinetry. This IS NOT particle board....and there are different grades of MDF. With some cabinet lines (mostly custom) you can request all real wood, no MDF, if that's what's important to you.

  • _sophiewheeler
    6 years ago
    last modified: 6 years ago

    So, all of my collectible vintage furniture from the 60's that is veneer over old fashioned particle board, not even MDF, and is holding up just fine, thank you, all of that is ''inferior''? LOL? Did you even see the post the other day showing how plywood actually fares worse when exposed to moisture? Let me find that picture for you.

    Plywood vs Furniture Board · More Info

    You also don't seem to understand CARB II certifications, nor the actual VOCs that are and are not emitted by various wood products.

    Educate yourself. Beliefs should be based on knowledge, not ignorance and lies.

  • mariacc2
    6 years ago

    The particle board of the 60's doesn't even compare to what is manufactured today. If the seam of today's laminated countertops is near any moisture on a regular basis, for example in a kitchen where people actually cook, it will swell. My father's former house was built in the 60's and the laminated countertop was original until he moved out a few years ago. It was solid as a rock until the new owners updated. This all depends upon the integrity of the manufacturer.

    I have educated myself about this. CARB II was put into place to reduce formaldehyde emissions caused by the resins used for these products. It's still there - only at a "federally acceptable level."

    I will never believe that MDF is better than natural wood. My daughter lives in a home built in the late 1800's. All the trim is original and stunning. No swelling, blistering or exploding paint.

    I have veneered antiques as well. Many fine antiques have veneer over solid real wood. Particle board is the "hamburger" of the furniture industry. It's dirt cheap compared to fine wood, and gets the job done.

    The history of hamburger btw and what was, and still is, federally acceptable in the meat industry is also disturbing. So CARB II gets about the same level of respect from me.

    No more insults... I'm done ...

    I was here to find out if other people knew that their painted "solid wood" cabinet doors were actually made of sawdust and glue and only framed in maple. We were never told this and there is not one word mentioned by the manufacturer - none that the consumer actually gets to see -- We were led to believe, due to the way the cabinets are marketed, that they are solid maple doors.

    Have a nice weekend.

  • AboutToGetDusty
    6 years ago

    All I know is my Schuler "white icing" shaker cabinets held up beautifully, and they were used constantly for five years! I used all sorts of cleaning products on them too at one time or another, and the finish was indestructable. I was impressed.

  • PRO
    The Kitchen Place
    6 years ago
    last modified: 6 years ago

    mariacc, I grew up in the kitchen business. My dad and uncle made laminate cabinets and countertops in the 1960s. I recall plywood was used as a substrate back then. Also, the laminate from Formica was thicker. That is why the early laminate tops seem to last FOREVER! They were also more scratch resistant back then. I have a friend with 1950s black laminate tops with white specs. You'd think it was brand new...not a scratch! So, obviously there has been some cheapening of the laminate. I heard once through a distributor that it was due to EPA regulations.

    I just did a search and found this:

    "The countertops are Formica—I know it’s Formica brand because the sample chip still hangs from a nail in the basement—that’s glued to a plywood substrate, not to particleboard as would be done today. (The trouble with particleboard is that if water gets in through a joint in the laminate, the particleboard swells and ruins the counter. Particleboard is a dumb substrate for laminate countertops, and it often ends the top’s useful life decades before the laminate wears out. But I digress.)"

    I'm assuming that with the thinner laminate today, a smoother substrate is required....so that is why plywood is no longer used. And better adhesion too...so less delamination.

    For full article, click here:Finehomebuilding: Durability-matters-lessons-from-a-1960s-ranch

    But back to the mdf/maple center panel debate: How often will you get standing water in the middle of a door? If a client wants a solid wood center panel with paint, I will sell it to them, but make sure it's documented that I recommended the MDF and that they know what to expect with a solid maple painted cabinet door.

    As I was getting ready for work this morning, I took notice of my 1925 interior doors. The previous owner remuddled the gorgeous craftsman style and painted all the trim and doors in the house. The doors have center panels that are telegraphed and have expansion joints and separated paint (sometimes a bit jagged looking) in many areas. It's old and 'patina-ed' so it's not that noticeable. You put that on a new kitchen? Well, you get my point...

  • mariacc2
    6 years ago

    Thank you, The Kitchen Place, for your informational reply. I understand what you are trying to explain about MDF cabinet doors. However, I just feel it is disingenuous for a cabinet company to sell a cabinet as "solid wood" when in reality it is mostly particle board and MDF. My daughter's mother-in-law's kitchen cabinets were made by a carpenter. They are solid maple and are beautiful. Someday, she may want to refinish them... but at least this can be done with real wood. MDF cannot be refinished in the same way.

    I raised three children and entertained lots of family in my old kitchen which had solid oak cabinets. Some of them are still in use in another area of the house - the doors are perfect. (I would have kept them in the kitchen, but the interior boxes were made cheaply). I found out recently that my 6 year old kitchen cabinets, are made with MDF center panels. They did not start showing this blistering until this spring. If you had asked me a year ago, I would have said they are wonderful.

    It seems that if there's is any entry point for moisture, even a pin-sized weakness in the finish, it will expand the MDF and blister the paint. It may be just a consequence of getting raised panels. The find ridge around an MDF raised panel is not durable. Our children are grown and out of the house... so this kitchen has been primarily very gently used by just two people. I don't think that 5 years is a long enough test on durability. It could be that 6 years is the life span of an MDF base cabinet door!


  • PRO
    Brynne Hempel, Allied ASID
    6 years ago

    As a designer, I will weigh in on the MDF discussion as well. There is one other reason to use MDF center panels other than the ease of finishing those center panels. The other reason for doing this is to prevent the "halo effect" created when a solid wood center panel contracts and gets smaller when there is low humidity in the air. The halo effect is the halo of an unpainted area of the panel due to the panel being a different (larger) size at the time of its finishing. MDF is more stable in environments with fluctuating humidity and thus is more likely to provide the longest lasting stable paint finish.

    Finally, as said in previous posts..there are varying grades of MDF and cheap particleboard is NOT what is used in any quality cabinet door. The densities of these two materials and thus how susceptible they are to water damage is very different.

  • PRO
    Roman
    6 years ago

    As Brynne has stated above, the stability of the center panel in painted doors is essential for the durability of any painted 5 piece door or drawer front; not just for its halo prevention characteristics but also for the integrity of the wood frame surrounding it. The architecture of any door is such that even when using rubberized spacers in the door frames rabbet, solid wood panels floating in them can cause the frame joints to separate creating hairline fractures in mitered corners and even scarph joints. To minimize this problem the MDF panel is in use by a huge number of cabinetry companies in the US and around the world. For those that follow individuals like Norm Abrahms of "This Old House" this issue of hairline fractures in painted doors and wood expansion in general has been addressed and written about in their magazine.

    The MDF center panel is not a sign of poor quality but rather a thoughtfully engineered solution to an age old problem. There are no miracle products in the market and solid wood is not always the answer. Should you be of the mindset that furniture in the 17th, 18th, and 19th century was "better" because it was "solid wood" you may be disappointed on both counts. Enjoy your Schuler cabinetry it is a worthy investment.

  • mariacc2
    6 years ago

    Roman and Brynne, if this is all true -- what you have written about MDF -- then why isn't it pridefully listed as a component of the cabinets? My sample door panel only stated "maple." There was no mention of MDF. I'm just wondering why it's such a big secret.


  • _sophiewheeler
    6 years ago

    It’s not a secret. It’s in every spec book that exists. It’s on the lips of every good KD who explains why your panel won’t warp and expose a halo of unpainted wood like a solid wood panel will do. It’s all very well detailed. Not a secret at all.

    Just one pic from their brochure. Easily accessible.

    Halo effect of a solid wood panel Shrinking in the low humidity of winter and exposing unfinished wood st the edges of the panel. What you don’t get with MDF.

  • tbg1269
    6 years ago

    I have been building furniture as a hobby for 30 years. This halo effect is very real and true but the proper way to prevent this from occurring is to finish or paint the panel prior to assembly. Also upon assembly one should pin the panel at the center of the panel (top and bottom) to the frame so that the panel moves equally on both sides. I always do this and never ever get a halo or unfinished wood showing. I try to ask these questions at Lowes but it is really a question for the manufacturer.

    I might also add that, in my opinion, solid wood construction when done properly is far superior to any kind of manufactured wood. There are proper techniques that need to be followed when working with solid wood. And when done so will generally outperform and last manufactured wood. There are exceptions.

    For door construction I prefer frame and panel but it will cost more.



  • Arizona Owner
    5 years ago

    We have Schuler in our kitchen and Kraftmaid in our bathrooms. I do NOT recommend Schuler cabinets. We spent a lot of money on the cherry wood and they look beautiful when installed but after just a few years, the finish doesn't hold up. The finish has completely worn off all over the place but mainly around the handles and near the floor. Meanwhile, the cheaper Kraftmaid cabinets are in perfect condition...they look as good as the day we installed them. I regret getting Schuler...I thought I did my homework and that I would love them but what a disaster.

    To Schuler's credit, they contacted me when they saw the horrific cabinet photos I posted to their Facebook page and they replaced some of the worst worn-out fronts and gave me a touch up kit but neither solution has last long...the replacements are already showing their wear. I expected more from expensive cabinets.

  • HU-933289734
    4 years ago

    We recently placed an order for custom Schuler cabinets with Lowes. A rather pricey purchase to finish out our basement with quality products. After about six weeks we finally received our cabinets. Unfortunately, the stain is completely wrong. They look nothing like what the Schuler catalog advertised nor the store display. We have $40k cabinets sitting in our garage that are not even close to what we ordered. The Lowes associate attempted to say that the stain changes over time.... And that the store display has likely darkened. However, the store display (which we made our choice from) is an exact replica of the cabinets in the Schuler catalog. A meeting with the Schuler rep has been arranged. I’ll follow-up on how this is handled.


  • PRO
    The Cook's Kitchen
    4 years ago

    Cherry does darken and richen over time. It’s normal for newly built cabinets to be lighter and have less depth.




  • Aglitter
    4 years ago

    Cherry will darken a lot in the first 6 months after installation due to oxidization of the wood. In fact, cherry is such a beautiful natural wood that develops richness with age that it's generally advised among high-end woodworkers to not stain it at all. If you do end up getting these cabinets redone, be aware that a darker stain could end up looking twice as dark once you have had the cabinets in your basement for a while, and you might not like it at all in time due to its becoming too dark. Perhaps negotiate a discount with the Schuler rep and proceed with installation?

  • live_wire_oak
    4 years ago
    last modified: 4 years ago

    This is yet another reason to not buy from a box store. A standard conversation from any showroom is how cherry darkens over time, and to expect the delivered cabinets to be lighter than older cabinets on display. Just opening a cabinet door to see the side that’s been in the dark vs the outside in the light should be part of any consumer’s education. Among the 1000 other details that should be communicated about cabinets that will now be a surprise. Like don’t clean them with dish tags or water.


    No one gives discounts for normal wood behavior. Additional front end research outside the box store box would have prevented the unfounded disappointment over normal wood behavior.

  • HU-933289734
    4 years ago

    These cabinets are maple not cherry and also this is not a matter of stain color. We picked a stained cabinet and instead received a natural cabinet with only clear coat. This was confirmed by the Schuler rep. This was an issue with the Lowes cabinet designer choosing the wrong stain color(or in this case, no stain at all). Unfortunately, even if we could live with the color difference, the antique finish that we paid 4 grand to have done is absolutely terrible. I could have given my 6 year old a stain pen and gotten better results.

  • PRO
    Panache designs
    2 years ago

    We also purchased Schuler cabinets we are devestated at the horrible product the main problem is you pay 100% up front at Lowes then then the cabinets arrive with issues then you have zero leverage we spent $50k

    and our cabinets are damaged and not matching in color what can we do NOTHING no return phone calls we ordered in november received in february and still today june 2 we are not complete in our kitchen Please save yourself the aggrivation and go with a real cabinet store where you put 50% down and until the job is complete

    to pay the rest We are in a nightmare

    im so sad and frustrated

  • Aglitter
    2 years ago

    @Panache designs I'm so sorry to hear of your problems. It's almost a relief to me personally to hear stories like yours since I was so close to wanting to go with Schuler. I had read a few reviews similar to yours concerning delivery or product issues that scared me away, but to be honest, all of the lower-priced cabinetry lines have similar reviews. It's very, very common to see defective products delivered that customers have difficulty getting warranty service on. Keep at it, and hopefully someday soon you will get recourse. You might even consider filing a claim legally against the company if it comes to that. You have to go up into very high-cost cabinetry like Plato Woodworking, William Ohs, or Jay Rambo before you see 100% satisfaction guaranteed in both quality and longevity. You probably got a lot of linear footage of cabinetry for $50K from Schuler, and that same amount of cabinetry would have been more than double and possibly triple or quadruple in most of those lines I mentioned above.

  • PRO
    Panache designs
    2 years ago

    Yes cost wasnt our concern at first we have a cabin in a rural area and we wanted nice and easy what we got was a sham if i could give advise it is worth it to go with a company that doesnt require 100 percent at time if purchase better to ho with specialized cabinet company then lowes once they have all the money you cant get the problems fixed and the install complete we paid for expensive crown buildup and crown molding and base molding - but cant even get installer back although he was paid in full because of lowes policy to pay in full at time of purchase we will be purchasing a miter saw and utubing tutorials a real nightmare