Guess it all depends on the climate in your area and the temperament of your horses. Then do the best with what you have close by to keep costs down while making a safe and decent looking building. If you have the space and are building/modifying you can add a paddock area outside the stall (attached) so the horses can go outside also (sand is a good option for footing)which will make apple picking easier and work wonders in preventing the atmosphere for developing bad habits. Our horses have this and would rather stay outside than under roof. We feed inside for obvious reasons, but they spend 90% of their time outside regardless of the weather. Keep in mind that they are not kittens or parakeets and you aren't doing them any favors by shutting them off from the elements. A horse isn't going to freeze to death because it has a concrete block wall and a concrete floor or is in an unheated building. Electric fenceing is your best friend (just make sure you have a good/safe charger (don't overlook the solars). If a horse is cribbing or chewing the top of a divider, a strand of electric will work wonders. If your dirt floor doesn't drain the way you think it should and you can't afford to raise the whole thing etc, etc, dig a ditch and lay some flex pipe in some gravel, cover it and be happy. You can extend the ditch a few meters away from the building and end the pipe in a sump that you've dug, filled with rocks/gravel and covered in extreme conditions. And don't forget toys be it a ball hanging from the ceiling or a basketball on the floor (could mean the difference in a happy horse with a clear head or a wood chewing weaver/pacer). Don't overlook the importance of your compfort and convenience either (physical, mental, and financial) horses tend to loose their glamour and end up neglected with habits that make them all but worthless when the owner spends more time cleaning than enjoying and eats macoroni and cheese with a backache. My 2 cents. Enjoy, Dave

Tip on plaster bandage material. The cheapest I can usually find it is $6 per roll. So I went to my veterinarian and asked if they could order a box for me, and they did. It was about 2/3 the cost. You might also try a medical supply business in your town. They tend to be near a hospital sometimes. And WHY do you need a whole box, you ask? BECAUSE ONCE YOU USE IT, YOU FIND ALL KINDS OF THINGS YOU CAN DO WITH IT! Sue

Wow, lots of info. I have to agree with most of what people are saying. Underlay is intended for 'under' the liner, but it is a great tool for using chunks under large rocks to add more cushion and limit tears in the liner. I'd suggest pulling it out also, its just going to become an issue with vacuuming and maintenance. Plants, potted or not, will eventually work into the underlay and become a nightmare to maintain. There is no reason for it to be over everything, and quite a few reasons to get rid of it. As far as the white lines and logos on firestone liner, it all get a carpet of algae so it disappears anyway so don't let that be a reason to not pull it out. Obviously you can do what ever you want, but the work of yanking it out now will be a fraction of the problems it causes in the long run. Sorry if this is bad news to you, but you'll be glad you did pull it later. Also I'm from the no rock school also, and sand would be even worse. If this is a 'natural' pond that you are planning on doing nothing to, thats a completely different story. There are benefits to a lot of media on the bottom with different applications. But if you want a pretty 'water garden' I've never understood putting rocks on the bottom. Maintenance nightmare! Anaerobic, sulfur smelling, black gunk is all that will give you without massive filtration.

I've never had a weed problem with it either. I sort of sheet mulch. I just keep piling it on top as mulch. Plant in it, allowing some to fall in the hole with the plant. When planting seeds, I pull the mulch to the sides but there's so much of it it keeps piling up and the seedlings are growing in basically manure piled up from the last few years. At least, in places I've lived before thats what I've done. Still working on getting my soil right here. The two first gardens are looking better but I'm working with caliche which is just one step up from concrete. My horses eat alfalfa and I've never seen a weed in it.