At our house, the fact that we eat more fresh produce when we grow it is priceless. Definitely an excellent ROI, in wall street terms, and ROH (return on health.) The physical labor involved and the increased intake of "good for you" combined with the fact that we didn't and won't spray any kind of stuff on all of that food is an exponential benefit. Not all of the seeds we buy will end up yielding something to eat. But even when you add the cost of seeds you buy that produce nothing to eat, there has always been a financial gain in overall money saved at the grocery store. Critters of various types end up killing some plants or ruining some produce, but if I start sprayin stuff, there goes the money I was going to save. If I'm going to eat produce that's been sprayed, it's probably better if it's been done professionally and not by me, clueless about 'cides. So it makes more sense to me to save the trouble of all of the extra mosquito bites I would get doing it, the cost of the spray, and the need to become educated about using 'cides which I am growing produce to avoid. I think it's better to let the birds eat the bugs they can find, attract beneficials (that don't end up getting 'cided also) to handle the bad guys better next time. When the failed plants are put in the compost pile, they make a last contribution to the food chain. Growing food that you would have otherwise paid for is a no-brainer to me. One is already paying for the space, makes a lot more sense to get something of value from it than to have just more grass that costs more money to mow. Veggies don't have to be grown in ugly rows, or huge dedicated squares and rectangles. If you mix them in with flowers, it just looks like more leaves. It's also easier and so much more yummy to pick tomatoes, cukes, zukes, etc... off of a chain link fence than to weed-wack the fence all summer. Veggies just blend into the landscape, except corn. Monocultures are also more vulnerable to pests and diseases, so spreading your produce - tomatoes especially - throughout the yard instead of all in a row can make the difference of even getting something vs. nothing. This is also (insert number of spread-out plants) times more likely to attract beneficials who look for pests on certain plants. Like the clich� about putting all of your eggs in one basket. If you get one bell pepper from a bought plant, you're probably already ahead financially. Same with a pack of cantaloupe or watermelon seeds. And what kid wouldn't prefer to grow a pumpkin ($1 for seeds) over buying one (starting at $5.) Cha-ching. Lettuce and spinach was really great this year! We're not real into salad, but we ended up eating some lettuce almost every day since all I had to do was go outside and pick exactly the amount we wanted. Often when I buy lettuce or spinach, most of it goes bad. I've never understood why they only sell such big bags of spinach, or a whole head of...

Tom, "John, are you using the white bags? I'd be concerned about the dyes and chemicals in the other colors.... " Good point. Heres what they (Greenbag Inc) say... "Is made from non-toxic, non-corrosive materials and safe color-fast dyes". I'm interested in these for several reasons, drainage, cooling and cost. I know they drain well, I don't think you could ever fill one with a garden hose. The upside down tomato bag I tried last spring stayed cool and it was black. The ones from Publix are a buck and I hear W mart's are cheaper. So I'll give it a try. john

Gardening in south central WI, zone 4b, very cool and wet until mid August this year. Four weeks of "summer" and I was picking a bushel of tomatoes a week for those four quick weeks. Italian Heirloom - Pink beef steak type. Very prolific, some fruits in excess of two pounds. Excellent fresh eating and the only tomato my mother will can. Excellent fruit to jucie ratio. Good disease resistance, only some early blight but as of last night's hard frost vines were still green and leafy. Helen's German - I got this seed from a local heirloom garden where inspite of absolutely brutal growing conditions it produced amazing fruit. In my more pampered conditions it is a stellar plant. Medium to large pink / red fruits, my absolute favorite eating tomato, fresh or preserved. Good disease resistance, some early blight. Crnkovic Yugoslavian - another beefsteak type, though more average sized fruits, excellent flavor, though slightly lower yeilds. This plant is tough, hot, dry, cold wet, over the years it has thrived through them all, and keeps producing superior fruit. Berkely Tye Die - This was a new one for me. A green tomato shot through with red and yellow. Average to good flavor, but I had a terrible time with shoulder cracking and then almost imediate rot. I'll grow it again, only because the conditions were so odd this year. Low to average yeailds on an extreemly vigorous plant. Jet Star - a hybrid, but producing a more typical grocery store type fruit. Excellent for slicing and good flavor. This one excelled in storage qualities, keeping twice as long as any of the other varieties, and maintaining texture and flavor. This goes on my must plant list. Amish Paste - disappointing this year where it is usually very good. I did not save any seed this year but will buy fresh seed next spring. I have only a small backyard plot that also has to grow a lot of other things for my family, so I am able to only grow three plants of each variety. But, as I said, yeilds this year were prety impressive. Garden and culture has been totally organic for about 15 years. I am also looking for recommendations for a yellow / orange and a green when ripe variety for next year. Thanks in advance! Steve

heather_on - your husband and I would make quite the pair at the grocery store checking dates. It seems that many of the same customers seem to frequent the larger chains at the same time and I have been asked to check for later dates for a few others as I am already bent over or on my knees reaching for the back. Picking out apples is also a thrill. Heck, I even check the expiry date on my beloved little bottles of Coca-Cola (I don't like flat Coke). These days with perishables travelling from the main plant to central distribution to general distribution for X store and then to X's various locations and then of course sitting in the aisles while staff often (sad to say) go to lunch - well that can really affect the best before date - as in a product has often turned by the next day, even though dated 2 weeks in advance. I carry ice packs in the car - in a cooler and only shop on the way home. We do not eat much in the way of canned or packaged goods so I have to be very careful - especially with meat, milk, eggs and my husband's yogourt. Actually at a well known Ontario food store I saw yogourt and eggs on the shelf dated best before Feb. 1 - and this was in late April. I have returned chicken breasts (free from) dated 1 1/2 weeks in advance that were bad day one. I only buy meat from a butcher now. I need organic milk - and I prefer Organic Meadow or Harmony. If I wanted to buy Neilson, Natrel or PC Organics (double UHTd) I would - so I go elsewhere for it. Then there is a small fruit and vegetable store where they will chop up a squash or melon for you - as you wait - at no cost. I will not buy bagged salads since I have found that despite the date the leaves are often "wet" - and I do know something about how they are kept "fresher". I avoid any foods made in China (this is hard since often the product comes from China (or one of its "affiliates") but is packaged in Canada in something larger than the product itself. Then there is Mexico. Certainly products grown in Ontario can be contaminated but I do try. In Canada we do not have all of the coupons that Americans have and we pay a fortune for dairy, meat, eggs and butter (good thing I don't buy butter - husband almost fainted in shock when I presented him with a free pound of butter given to me by Sobeys based on my purchases). I do go through a lot of olive oil - too much, truthfully.