At our house, the fact that we eat more fresh produce when we grow it is priceless. Definitely an excellent ROI, in wall street terms, and ROH (return on health.) The physical labor involved and the increased intake of "good for you" combined with the fact that we didn't and won't spray any kind of stuff on all of that food is an exponential benefit. Not all of the seeds we buy will end up yielding something to eat. But even when you add the cost of seeds you buy that produce nothing to eat, there has always been a financial gain in overall money saved at the grocery store. Critters of various types end up killing some plants or ruining some produce, but if I start sprayin stuff, there goes the money I was going to save. If I'm going to eat produce that's been sprayed, it's probably better if it's been done professionally and not by me, clueless about 'cides. So it makes more sense to me to save the trouble of all of the extra mosquito bites I would get doing it, the cost of the spray, and the need to become educated about using 'cides which I am growing produce to avoid. I think it's better to let the birds eat the bugs they can find, attract beneficials (that don't end up getting 'cided also) to handle the bad guys better next time. When the failed plants are put in the compost pile, they make a last contribution to the food chain. Growing food that you would have otherwise paid for is a no-brainer to me. One is already paying for the space, makes a lot more sense to get something of value from it than to have just more grass that costs more money to mow. Veggies don't have to be grown in ugly rows, or huge dedicated squares and rectangles. If you mix them in with flowers, it just looks like more leaves. It's also easier and so much more yummy to pick tomatoes, cukes, zukes, etc... off of a chain link fence than to weed-wack the fence all summer. Veggies just blend into the landscape, except corn. Monocultures are also more vulnerable to pests and diseases, so spreading your produce - tomatoes especially - throughout the yard instead of all in a row can make the difference of even getting something vs. nothing. This is also (insert number of spread-out plants) times more likely to attract beneficials who look for pests on certain plants. Like the clich� about putting all of your eggs in one basket. If you get one bell pepper from a bought plant, you're probably already ahead financially. Same with a pack of cantaloupe or watermelon seeds. And what kid wouldn't prefer to grow a pumpkin ($1 for seeds) over buying one (starting at $5.) Cha-ching. Lettuce and spinach was really great this year! We're not real into salad, but we ended up eating some lettuce almost every day since all I had to do was go outside and pick exactly the amount we wanted. Often when I buy lettuce or spinach, most of it goes bad. I've never understood why they only sell such big bags of spinach, or a whole head of...

Tom, "John, are you using the white bags? I'd be concerned about the dyes and chemicals in the other colors.... " Good point. Heres what they (Greenbag Inc) say... "Is made from non-toxic, non-corrosive materials and safe color-fast dyes". I'm interested in these for several reasons, drainage, cooling and cost. I know they drain well, I don't think you could ever fill one with a garden hose. The upside down tomato bag I tried last spring stayed cool and it was black. The ones from Publix are a buck and I hear W mart's are cheaper. So I'll give it a try. john

I also try to buy local and organic where possible. This summer has been wonderful. 90% of are veggies and 75% of our meat is from the OSU Farmer's Market or food coop. Just wish the winter produce was as abundant, but a little at a time I am learning how to perserve what we like. Mostly freezing due to time constraints (if only a job wasn't necessary;) Most of the vendor's at the farmer's market welcome visitor's to there farm's and will answer questions about pesticide, antibiotic, etc. use. More and more are organically certified. I question some who use "no pesticides"- what about herbicides? Might not hurt me, but don't like the side effects to other plants. So I try to buy local and organic, then local and near organic, local and conventionally grown, then the grocery store. If something is conventionally grown, why not buy it fresh locally instead of one week old from the grocery store. Of course, it has taken a few years to get to this point, but the more familiar I get with the local sources the easier it is. For those who don't want to join the coop, consider that the coop website has information that will allow you to contact most of the producers. Many give information on how animals are raised or if produce is raised organically. So you can find someone near you in the state and where they sell their products. Many people sell from their farm's or at farmer's markets closer to them. Other's might have their products in a local grocery store like Crescent Market or The Earth in OKC. It is a great resource- especially for those like me who isn't always organized for a once a month order and delivery! BTW- the newest OKGazette just came out today. The issue is dedicated to articles about local food. Paraphasing pedmond "BTW, I'm not a producer for the co-op or any other producer for the farmer's markets, I just like the fact that it provides an alternative to store bought products and the fact that my money stays in Oklahoma to help other Oklahomans." This is a topic I feel very passionate about, so I am glad to see so many of my gardenweb friends talking about it.

Thanks for your gracious comments, "holiday-ers!" Yes, that bittersweet lady was quite a character! ...and I will think of her each time I use this wreath...I hope it dries & keeps for me...glad you enjoyed her story, too! luvs...yes, it is fun to decorate more for the seasons...enjoying this forum so much. OA...I can't remember the name of the dried stuff with the hydrangeas..darn, I needed to write it down. Bought it at the Farmers' Market that DH & I sell at. Thought it was quite beautiful...could be hung, too. The candleholder is from one of the home decorating parties probably 35+ yrs ago...I have loved the look of wrought iron or matte black metal finish for yrs. Can you believe I have 2 of these candleholders that used to hang on dining room wall with black chain draped from one side to the other...and in-between were 3 ceramic "Musketeers!" Must find that pic to share! I made the muskies at ceramics class in the early 70's. ladypat...yes, I bought "plants" ...male & female...& the non-invasive kind...so we shall see, uh? Thanks for info. Thanks nana, frou, lynne, party, punk, karen, jay...passed on compliments to DH, too...appreciated! Hope the bittersweet will come to those who love it! Jeanne S. jane...now on the lookout for a white plate or platter for white dishes on porch top shelf...I knew it needed height...but my turkey platter was too big! Thanks for the suggestion...more shopping ahead! tee hee frou...pic on ledge in the "bat frame" is about 30+ y-o...our kids! A fav pic of mine.