No, I am fine with cold, merely civil, etc. What I am not ok with is cruel - yelling at them in public (or even private), and trying to prevent their father from seeing them.

Mrsmaddog,

In TOSs case, her children's SM apparently actively or passively encourages dad to have minimal contact with her children. Apparently children are noisy,etc. What a shock. SM enables Dad to minimize child support.

In my case, Xs SO was TOW. I suspect many women date a man whose marriage is dead (people admit to it on this board - to me unbeleivable, this marriage dead so lets jump in the hay).

I dont think the mom is always at fault. I think sometimes SM is so controlling "my way or the highway" that she forces confrontation.

mrsmaddog: Well put! I have said that so many times about my SS's biomom -- she should be thanking God that I am here to take care of her son and be the mother than she isn't/can't/doesn't want to be! And it is funny because in the beginning she wasn't sure what her position was -- first, she complained if I didn't do stuff, then she started complaining because I was doing stuff! One of our problems is that she sits back and waits for things to happen (I call her a pinball....bouncing around letting life happen upon her!)....but I am a planner and a "do-er" I cannot afford to sit back and wait until she decides to make a decision....we have busy lives and need to remain in control of those things we can control. Not to mention that kids need structure.

As for TOS, if you genuinely think that cold, merely civil is an acceptable way for your children to be treated by the Stepmom, then you have clearly put your own needs before your children's needs.

To KKNY: what you perceive as the SM being controlling may be the SM refusing to allow the biomom to roll over on us like we are simply spectators in the life of their children. This is especially true for those SM's who have full-time custody of their Stepkids (as I do). My belief is that if it happens in my house, or effects me, my time, my money, than I damn well better have a say....

Well, from the first two responses here (and being defensive at that), we can all see who feels the shoe fits.... LMAO

TOS, your response is heartwarming. Next time my step daughter is crying her eyes out because her mom has lied to her again, perhaps I should bring her a tissue (in a cold, civil way) and walk away instead of holding her and comforting her. She can cry by herself until her dad gets home.... how cold are you??? I sure wouldn't want one of my children treated that way by ANYONE.

and KKNY, it is 'my way' in my house. It's not BM's way in my house like she wants it to be. Too bad. When a BM lets dad run her house, she can run his.

Jersey, And what you percieve as you should have say over, I say the DAD should have say over.

Ima, That was Dads SO atittude too. He got tired of fighting, so his resolution is he doesnt see DD in his house, and has put house in trust to go to DD at age 25. He thinks that was a fair resolution.

TOS-
Yes, would you also appreciate a cold, merely civil teacher, if that teacher treated all the other students warmly, affectionately, and kindly, but not your child because he or she is "different?" Would your child not have to still obey the rules and do his or her homework (chores)just because he is "different?" Would you or have you ever, automatically believed your child's version of events, without even attempting to discover the truth, especially if the last teacher told you your "angel" didn't want to obey, or do his work? This is what stepmoms, who are not cruel, who are not cold nor merely civil, deal with. Why? Because if YOU say that SM should just be a moving, breathing piece of furniture in your Ex's house when his "angel" visits, your CHILD will feel that way, too.
I am not advocating that any stepmom yells at a child in public, nor any biomom for that matter! But, MOM- if the only way YOU can control your kids is by screaming at or hitting them, how dare you judge a SM who tries and tries other ways, and is rebuffed over and over, until they reach a breaking point, and oooops, yells at your kid.
Gosh, Ladies I must be getting old, because when I was a kid, the neighbors down the street had more right to discipline OPKs, than women married to the OPKs fathers do NOW.
I am also talking about the insistence that it is a slap in the face to say my/our child to an obviously new acquaintance, or stranger- as in:
"Oh, is that your daughter over there,maam?"
"NO, mister she's my STEPdaughter" ...Now that IS cold.
After all, I do not NEED to state My Daughter So & So to people who already know us, do I? People just love to get on this one issue and wave it like a banner!
kkny-
I did mention that in the situation of TOW (or TOM?)I can understand some of this venom. How long do we carry on this bitterness and anger? My DH lived two houses away from his EX/TOM/kids so he could see the kids everyday! Not for long, no. They weren't even divorced yet. He paid the rent on the TWO houses, plus some. I would have taken the kids, and let the two cheaters starve, be evicted, whatever. He couldn't do it because he loves the kids. Even when he had custody for a while, he tried to keep it civil, for the kids. Was he angry or bitter- YES. Did he feel that excused him to act like an a$$? NO.
I don't think the MOM is always at fault, nor the SM. Much of the problem is the Dad expecting the SM to take charge, and not doing his job as a parent. (How many of these guys were 'fun dad', even during the first marriage?)
I will also bravely say the unthinkable: Some of this IS the kids' fault. Let me tell you why I say that. I have two BKs.They live with me and DH .They try to pull the same tricks on my DH as all these EOW kids try to pull on their SMs. I say try, because I won't let them. I do have compassion for children in blended families, just as I do kids with disabilities, cancer, or any other problem. Mine got a little slack, for a little while, as they adjusted to much more than a new stepdad/siblings: lots of new family, schools, house, rules, church, and schedules.His kids still get excuses, and the only major change for them was 3 new people to visit in the summer and a stepmom who abhors violence.Since they are allowed to hurt each other and anyone else at BMs house it seems I am "controlling" for not allowing it in ours.Let's keep giving them excuses, then someday they can tell it to a jury.

It's easy to say dad gave up... when I say it's 'my' house, it's really 'our' house and we make the rules together. BM wants to tell us how to do things with HER daughter in OUR house, it's not happening. If your ex chooses to not see his daughter in his house because he can't come to an agreement with his GF or he won't impose their rules on his daughter when she comes over, that's his choice. Just as it's TOS's ex's choice to not see his children. A real man (and a loving father) would not let a woman come between him and his children if he really wanted t see them. If you think a house is a fair exchange for a relationship with her father, I feel sorry for your daughter.

KKNY: Agreed, Dad should have a say over.....and his opinion counts as much as mine and vice versa. But you can't act like I'm some bystander while biomom and Dad make up all the rules, plans, etc. around the kids who are essentially under my jurisdiction 98% of the time.

Keep in mind, this also means that I "get to" cook meals, go food shopping, do carpool, make sure he has what he needs for school, sports, etc., etc. In my house, it is run by me and my husband -- not the biomom.

Ima, he sees her as much as he would, just not as his house. And when you say "my house" in front of a child, they hear it.

What about rules for Dads SO? Like not telling my child that I had an affair (a complete falsehood).

And I dont act like Dads SO is a complete bystander. She is much worse.

It's sad when a dad will stay with someone that treats their children like that and they don't stand up to them. The dad is choosing the GF/wife over their relationship with their kid.

But, the truth is, you have no right or say in what goes on in his house. If he allows his SO to talk to his daughter that way or make his child feel uncomfortable there, then it's DADS problem and DAD needs to deal with it, not you. Dad makes the rules for his SO by accepting her behavior so if she tells your child you had an affair (whether it's true or not) and he allows it, then he is the one allowing his child to be harmed by those statements. If my husband said things to my kids that I didn't think were appropriate, then I have an obligation to set him straight and make sure he doesn't talk that way to my kids. If he refuses to respect my wishes when it comes to my kids, then I have the option to send him packing.

I think that marriage comes first because a strong marriage is a good foundation for the family, but if the partners don't agree on appropriate or inappropriate behavior (including those types of comments), then the marriage is not strong and they are not a team with the same objective. Then it becomes an issue of protecting the kids from harm, which I think your daughter's father has an obligation to do but has chosen to keep the GF and see his daughter outside the home, which is unfortunate.

I think the marriage first is a good idea if people use it in a selfless way to provide for entire family. But some people use it is in a selfish way. That is not good.

As to him chosing GF, I actually think he chose HIMSELF first. As I said, he sees DD as much as he would, just not in his house. He takes DD to all family dinners, leaves SO home. I dont think it is so much protecting her from harm, but from annoyance. It has gotten to point no one takes SO seriously.

Well Maddog, not all BMs are like that...
My BF's ex started off quite rude to me... Then it downgraded to not being downright rude, but still being subtly rude... Then it downgraded again to mostly just ignoring me... But then things started looking up, so now she's mostly quite nice to me, and seems pretty cool with that I'm around.
However, she did inform (and I do mean inform) my BF that he'd "better not f--- that up, because A__'s really nuts about her" I'm not sure if I should be happy about that because she's finally come around to that I exist, or annoyed that she said it how she did. I've settled on a little of each ;)
She doesn't usually try to tell us how things should be at our place, but she is often selfish about scheduling, saying "You're taking him tomorrow!" instead of asking if it's OK to change the plan.

And on a little side note... I was awfully crabby last weekend (lots of stress lately, long story) and A__ was having a very bad day for his ADHD. Anyhow, I snipped at A__ at one point. BF suggested that I go read my book for a bit to get away from A__ before I blew my top at him for how he was acting. On days that BF is having a hard time dealing with A__, I try to get A__ out of his hair - so it goes both ways.

Well, your ex chose himself, my husbands ex chose herself. Not much difference to me. They didn't choose what's best for their kids and it doesn't matter if they are mom or dad. As a stepmom, I try to fill in the gap for their daughter but I know she prefers her mom. Much of my resentment of her mom comes from knowing how much it hurts her child and she disregards that. I'm sure there are stepmoms out there that are not nice, just ask Serenity. But, I think there are more stepmoms and potential stepmoms that walk into it hoping for the best and are blindsided by the problems that are common to stepfamlies... usually emotionally charged situations that in an intact family would be nothing.

If the one parent could kiss the kids goodbye on when they go to their other house and hug them hello when they get back and when they talk about what they did over there, they are told 'that's nice', whether they agree with it or not. (of course if it's a safety issue, then the adults should talk about that later in private) That would be best for the kids. To be able to spend time with the other parent without having to worry that one parent is going to be upset that they did this or that or so and so said this or that.

It would bother me if my son's stepmom told him terrible things about me, but the truth is that my son knows me well. He knows it's not true. IF his dad lets his stepmom say things, then he is there, then he is choosing to let her harm his child. I can't control what they do. If it affects my son's relationship with his dad, then it's up to him to deal with it. Not me. and you are right, nobody is going to take her seriously. My son's stepmom once told my son that I was a drunk. Well, he knows I don't drink at all. I mean, maybe a margarita with dinner or champagne at a wedding, but I don't even have an occasional glass of wine or beer. She looks like a fool for saying that. Then it makes everything else she says look suspect. In all honesty, I didn't want to know what she told my son. I didn't want to react to it, like a mother would. I knew it wasn't true. Now, if anyone hit him or said nasty things to him about him (that hurts his self esteem), then it might be something I would want to know if his father isn't taking care of it. But, the father is supposed to have the role of protecting their child in their home. I did question a bruise on my son's leg in the shape of a hand when he was six. He said dad spanked him, CPS and the police said 'don't let it happen again' (to dad) and that was the end of it. Did I worry? Sure. Can I control what they did in their home? Nope. So, I focused on my relationship with my son while he was with me.

ceph-
I think you are a great example of how good SM's can be.
The only thing I question is the end of your reply:
"BF suggested that I go read my book for a bit to get away from A__ before I blew my top at him for how he was acting."
Um, BF sent YOU for a time out, instead of his CHILD? Well, we all have rough days, and ADHD, stress, whatever makes it harder, but BF should be disciplining his child, BEFORE you snip, or blow your top. I rarely have to say one word to my SC about (really) bad behavior when DH is home, it is when I am responsible for them that the problems occur. I often give myself a time out, just to save what's left of my sanity!;-)

Haha, no I did need a "time out" - I was at the end of my rope!
My BF was trying to keep A__ under control, but he was a complete nightmare that day. When A__ has bad days they're BAD DAYS and it doesn't seem to matter what you do, A__ is going to continue to have a bad day.
Consider the following five minute bit of our day:
When I snipped at A__, it was right after he had gone upstairs (where he is not allowed to go, because it's not our part of the house) while BF was outside with the BBQ and he lied to us both (telling BF he was going inside and me he was going outside). Then once I got him out of upstairs, and I asked him to please put his glass in the sink, he put it in the bathroom sink "because you didn't say it had to be the kitchen sink" (think dripping with attitude and sarcasm, not honestly got confused)... Then I took him outside so that BF could take another term supervising this nightmare of a day, and he wanted to shovel snow off the deck. I showed him that he could only go with the grain of the wood so he didn't gouge it and he told me "So what? I don't care if it gets gouged, it's not my deck."
That's when I got pretty short with him, and BF suggested that I go read for a bit... And BF talked with him about attitude and respect of property.
Oh, and A__ has to apologize to the upstairs people this weekend for going up there and for being rude to them. (We didn't find out what he did while he was up there until after he was gone back to GM's)

I knew it was going to be a rough ride:
While I was on the way to our wedding, with 2SDs and 2BC in my car, my SD14 got irate that I didn't have time to stop for a Pepsi. Her remark?
"It's just a stupid wedding..."
*******************
Where's the exit?!
JK!

Mrsmaddog..LOLOLOL Just a stupid wedding!!!! Heres 2 for you..Met SS no 1 first time, right in front of me said to his dad ...Mom says shes going to take all your money and not let us come to your funeral!!!!!! SS no 2....At a somber funeral luncheon(his close family member) for all to hear... LOUDLY...Mom wants to buy that CD LETS BE US AGAIN!!!! LOLOLOL