This may be a silly question, but why aren't you just buying Ikea's farmhouse sink, with the cabinet that's made to fit it??

Carla in Sac

With RTA cabs like IKEA, DIY is the best way to go. Hire subcontractors for flooring, electrical and plumbing. Do the cabs yourself with so much help available on ikeafans. You will save $$$ :)

Hi Carla, not a silly question it's just that I really want an undermount sink and IKEA's is a surface mounted sink. I guess I could be swayed to that, it's also cheaper, but just harder to maintain.

Caligirl --

I totally understand your angst over the IKEA debate with your contractor. Our contractor (who we'd used before and like) was instrumental in our choice of IKEA cabs BUT yesterday the carpenter who is actually installing the cabs mouthed off about how he wouldn't put IKEA in his house and he wouldn't build cabinets with particle board (and by the way why did we have such a big house anyway?). I kind of freaked out. And then last night I realized that he had basically ignored all the info I and the contractor had given him about the IKEA installation and had gone his own way, thus making it impossible to install the IKEA doors and drawers. Oy!!

All is resolved today and the installation is proceeding. So far so good. And I'm just determined not to engage that particular carpenter in any more conversation than is necessary.

Re your sink question: I'm sure you've posted to IKEAFans but if not you definitely should. Last night, as we struggled to put together one of the last boxes (which as it turns out was missing a part), I posted a desperate query and got 4 or 5 immediate and helpful responses.

Remember your GC works for you, not the other way. It is his job to give you his opinion, but once a decision is made, it is his job to have it completed. It sounds like you have done your research and have come to a good decision based on your likes and budget. Go for it and gently remind the GC you are paying the bill. Best of Luck!

So I love the fact that after I argue with him and my GC is brow-beating me about how if he had his custom cab guy, he'd have "received shop drawings showing EXACTLY where the microwave outlet should go", blah blah blah, he FINALLY gives up and says "fine, I give up" and THEN he hands me my $61,000 progress bill! Unbelievable.

Anyway, thanks sw in austin, I have done the IKEA fans thing but it's hard for me to navigate. I sent the photos and directions about modifications for a Shaw sink to my IKEA installer and luckily IKEA is all this guy does. He build furniture as well as installing kitchens, so he's my guy and I won't have to listen to some angry carpenter like you endured. I do have to get one custom cab done though because of my odd angled wall, so maybe I'll just find an independent guy.

caligirl, if you need a custom cab to work with IKEA doors, check out Scherr's cabinets. They do a lot of custom work to coordinate with IKEA so they know where all of the hole spacing is and everything. I have only read good things about them here at GW.

Nicole

Here is a link that might be useful: scherr's cabinets

Thanks Nicole for the suggestion about Scherr's. I'm actually using their doors and I'm considering them for the custom cab, but it's a really odd shape and size. I'm worried I'll mess up the dimensions or whatever. They also said that custom cabs are at least a 12 week lead right now (whereas the doors are only 10 working days). I thought maybe some local shop could come out and tackle it more easily.

Thanks again though, it's a good idea.

Hi Caligirl,

I'm in a very similar situation. My contractor was all gung ho when I was going to have custom cabinets installed but when things changed (namely $$) and we had to do IKEA - there was a definite shift in attitude. We are also going to do the Shaw's sink modification and a few others as well. Our cabs are put together (except the three that require the mods) and are waiting for my "less than thrilled with IKEA" contractor to do his thing.

I wish I could give you specific info on how long it takes to do the mod but I haven't done it yet myself. I have my own theory on how it would work but not practical experience.

I'm not sure where you are in the process but my kitchen is being demo'd at the end of June. If I get to the sink cab mod before you do - I'll let you know how it goes.

Anyway,here's my sketch of how I think the whole thing should work. We'll see what my contractor thinks about it all when the time comes:

Thanks tantadoodles, and now I know where you got your handle!

So hey, I like your sketch, but let me tell you what I learned on IKEAfans about this mod. Somebody posted that they'd done a whole mod, put supports inside the cab, installed the sink and then BAM! Two of the adjustable legs completely EXPLODED. For that reason, I'm thinking we should do a solid two by four framed support under the cabinet and not use the adjustable legs for the sink base at all. It adds to the hassle factor, but who wants an exploding aluminum leg to worry about?

Good luck with your cranky contractor. I'm just looking forward to my beautiful kitchen being done and poking mine really hard in the rib and saying "I told you so!" Mark my words, these dolts will be telling their next clients how great IKEA is and "OH I can save you so much money on your kitchen!"

Another silly question - if your budget is tight and you want Ikea cabs, why do you have a GC at all? Even if you can't install them yourself, every Ikea has local installers that specialize in their cabs that they can recommend.

Somebody posted that they'd done a whole mod, put supports inside the cab, installed the sink and then BAM! Two of the adjustable legs completely EXPLODED

Hey caligirl! I think you're talking about me! When I saw this post I was going to ask you if you had seen my post about how to modify for a farm sink on ikeafans. Other than those legs, we haven't had any problems and we LOVE our sink! We also used Scherr's doors.

Here is a link that might be useful: Pictorial Tutorial on modifying IKEA sink base

jenswren, your counter is beautiful. Is that just waterlox, or did you stain it, too?

jenswren, I love your counter. I mean it, I think I am actually IN LOVE with your counter!

Yeah, Jenswren, me too. I want to make my counter harmonize with my stained "old yellow piney" floors, and it looks like yours would. Is that beech counter or ?

Sorry, Caligirl, I forgot you in seeing that counter. I don't have any information for the sink but wanted to say I think you'll actually have fun, or at least satisfaction, in putting your kitchen in. It's like a not-too-hard construction toy, only you're not watching TV while you put it together on the coffee table while you do it (actually, come to think of it, you probably could be for most of it).

Jenswren -- I also am dying to know about that counter. I was just discussing the IKEA butcherblock counter that we will use in the one area that the slab of soapstone won't cover and I'd love for it to look like yours. And Rosie, we also have "old yellow piney" floors that we're looking to harmonize with.

Also, Jenswren -- do you have more pics of your IKEA cabs with Scherr's doors? I'd love to see them.

Thanks.

Oh and I meant to add that our contractor built 2x4 framed supports under all our IKEA cabs (installation is currently underway). His reasoning was that the kicks they can install on the frame will look better than the kicks IKEA provides that snap on to the legs -- also the frame is sturdier all around. I'm sure it took longer but they got all the cabs installed and leveled in our -- admittedly smallish, 14x10 or so, 21 liner feet of base cabs -- kitchen in a day and a half or so (including uppers).

I don't know how much faster it would have been if they'd used IKEA legs and, since the carpenters are more familiar with the box frame than the IKEA sysstem, there was no learning curve (they did use the IKEA system for hanging the wall cabs).

Well, thanks everyone - although you were supposed to look at the SINK... ;-)

The counters are solid wood, Pronomen beech. No stain. We had originally put them in as temporary counters, while saving $ for soapstone, but we really love them and have decided to keep them as they are. After we first installed them, we did the mineral oil thing for a few months, but it was just too much upkeep and the counters never really looked the way I wanted them to.

So we decided to do Waterlox, and I just love the counters now. They are smooth and easy to clean - water beads right up, and they don't stain like they did with just the oil. We put on 3 coats of the Waterlox Original sealer and finish. You don't want the marine finish - it's way too shiny and thick!

This is an old photo, and unfortunately I don't have any newer ones with me at this house (I'm in MN right now). I'll be going back to NJ in a few weeks, and I want to take some new updated pics then (with doors!). BTW, caligirl, the Scherr's doors are great too - you'll be pleased.

Here is a link that might be useful: Waterlox Original Sealer and Finish

Jenswrens -- Thanks for the info about the counters. I'm glad to see how good the Pronomen beech looks (we need to use that because of the thickness, which matches the adjacent soapstone).

Also could you tell me what the style/wood/finish of your Scherr's doors is?

Not trying to hijack this thread - really.

Our doors are the #400 style, with M edge, in paint-grade poplar, painted (by Scherr's) in off-white, which they say is equivalent to Sherwin Williams "Dover White."

I just glanced through this thread and didn't see what first jumped out at me, so I'll mention it. Your gc talks about HIS cabinet maker. Sounds to me like he gets a kick-back, so of course he wants you to use HIS guy!

'His' cabinet maker may very well be the cabinetmaker who made the cabinets for the GC's personal home.

There is a good chance that cabinetmakers find as many jobs for GC's as GC's find for cabinetmakers, if not more because the person who builds cabinetry should be one of the most skilled people who find their way to a job site and whose work is the art in the frame, so to speak.

Ikea cabs are a budget decision. However, a contractor who is trying to steer a client into choosing a custom kitchen made by a local crafts person using materials superior to particle board and detailing beyond cookie cutter cabinetry is not giving bad advice. And, one should expect that tradespeople who know the characteristics of building products are going to sneer at particle board whilst they see local jobs being outsourced to foreign countries.

Jenswrens, I LOVE your counters too! AND your sink! And yes, you must be the exploding legs person on IKEAfans I was mentioning earlier. I did in fact forward your modifications directions to my IKEA installer and so I'm hoping it helps because he hasn't done an undermount farmhouse style sink yet (perhaps I should charge him for the "training materials" lol).

I mean I REALLY love your counters! Dammit, am I going to have to change my mind AGAIN?

And about the GC thing, this is a MAJOR addition and remodel, not just a kitchen otherwise yes, I'd just have done it myself. Since the original plans called for a custom kitchen, the budget very nearly includes this but since we've gone over budget in every other area, I'm trying to save on the kitchen. My GC is "steering" me not because of kickbacks but because he's a prima-donna and just hates doing anything in a way that's different from how he's always done it. He's also a perfectionist and he hates things not being perfect. I like that his work is very good, but he does drive me nuts with his fixation on certain things that are fine with me (and I AM the client and it IS my money!). That's why I got the IKEA installer guy, because I know I can't do it myself (no time, skills or patience) and I'm sick of hearing my GC complain about it.

For what it's worth, we had the same situation in that we originally costed based on custom cabinets, and then decided we needed to cut back the budget substantially. The first thing to change was the cabinets. The GC was initially very reluctant, but my DH basically sat him down, told him this was what we'd decided, and if he felt it would be beneath him, or not good for his professional reputation, we would quite understand if he wanted to refuse the job.

He confirmed that he did want to do the job (and I do know he's not short of work) and would accept what we wanted to do. He's worked on the house before, and we know him pretty well by now. He raised his concerns with me only once more, but I didn't get into it much: just reminded him that this was what we wanted, that I appreciated him raising his concerns, but based on my experience in the UK, this was what I'd chosen.
Since then, we've worked together closely on all the ordering including all the trim pieces necessary, and so on, and it's been smooth going.

Incidentally, for those that don't know, all the cabinets for the US market are manufactured in the US, but in accordance with German environmental standards, which are the highest in the world. And there's a 25 year warranty. Particle board is pretty much the norm across Europe and my friends are very surprised at the reluctance of US builders to use something so tried and tested.

Thanks Sara, I forgot that was my OTHER reason for going with IKEA; the higher indoor air quality standards for their adhesives and finishes.

I'm glad you were able to get things to work out with your GC. It really should come down to what the client wants and making sure that the long term relationship is preserved. Pity my guy doesn't quite get that!

I agree Ci lantro. I honestly wouldn't call a GC who is a perfectionist and therefore someone who strongly believes custom cabinets will be better than standard Ikea ones a prima donna. To me, he is trying to help prevent his client from buyer's remorse. I understand everyone has to live within their budget - but caligirl - you said this is part of an much larger renovation, so while Ikea cabinets save some money over custom, in the overall scheme of the big project the difference is not that great. This the way I read it is your GC in his mind is looking out for your best interest with his input / advice

berryberry, perhaps you misunderstood. I definitely appreciate my contractor's professional experience and advice and yet once we've had the IKEA versus custom cab conversation four or five or SIX times, and I've listened patiently and then made a decision, I would expect my contractor to offer me the same respect and accept this decision and help me implement it.

This is also not the first issue like this. He also hates that we're keeping the original chimney and fireplace rather than demolishing and building them new. We've had that conversation also about six times. I LIKE the old fireplace! Similar conversation with my old wood floors. He wanted them all torn out for new ones, but hey, he's not paying for them and yah they'd look great but I don't have money to tear out flooring so that he can feel good with the finished product. ANOTHER conversation about wood siding versus (OUR choice) of Hardiboard siding. Okay, he doesn't like hardiboard, WE DO, that was another six or so conversations, one of which included the phrase "Well, I (the Contractor) have to put MY NAME on this project" suggesting of course that we as the clients are hurting his reputation by insisting on Hardiboard siding on OUR home.

If that doesn't sound like a prima donna I don't know what else to say.

ok, well if you have had the conversation 6 times, then I understand your frustration. I guess I would be as well at that point

Sounds like he wants to steer you into products that he can make more $$ on.

Furniture Today
Feb 12, 2007

Starting mid-year, Sauder will manufacture Ikea's Akurum kitchen frames and its Rationell kitchen shelves over a three-year period. The frames and shelves are currently made in Eastern Europe....

So, at least some parts of Ikea cabinets are beginning to be mfg'd in the US.

For those not familar w/ Sauder Woodworking, Sauder makes a lot of low end, mass marketer furniture for home offices.

Here is a link that might be useful: Sauder to make Ikea kitchen cabinet components

"Sauder makes a lot of low end, mass marketer furniture for home offices."

ci_lantro, I believe Sauder's agreement with Ikea requires them to make the Akurum cabinets to Ikea's and the German low emissions standards.

caligirl -- Are you in So. Cal? If so, I would be interested to know how you found your Ikea installer (and what you thought of his work when it's done). We're in OC and considering using ikea.

Hey sarschlos, I'm actually in Norcal and found my IKEA installer on IKEAfans. He has a website so I could see his work and came recommended by a few IKEAfans people. I think there was a SoCal installer there too, if you go check IKEAfans and search you'll probably find them. I think that since IKEA is basically a DIY for anyone kind of product, what I'm getting is someone who's done these a lot, can knock them out pretty quickly, knows the pitfalls and perhaps some secrets and is handy, which I'm not. I'm sure there are people doing the same thing in SoCal since there is so much IKEA being bought down there and lots of people doing home renovation work. I'll let you know how mine goes too.

I'm happy about the plant in Danville, though. Funny, right after I read about it here, I happened to glance at washingtonpost.com, and they've got an article about the Danville factory, too. Great news for that town.