You say you would have thought everyone would have wanted the family to blend. Well, let me remind you, you had a choice as to becoming part of the family, the stepchildren did not. I think you are overreacting and to step back and just accept the situation. I think when people stop trying to force relationships -- and accept that your boys are the half brothers -- everyone should focus on productive relationships and trying to pretend that there arent different relationships.

I won't step back if I feel my children would be hurt. Who was forcing a relationship? I'm saying I don't like the term "2nd family". I have never forced a relationship on anyone. I can tell you if I asked skids to remove themselves so we could take a family picture...there would have been hell to pay.

I keep hearing mixed messages. You said you havent tried to force a relationship, but you wont step back if you think your boys will be hurt. I think there is an inconsistency there. You dislike them, yet want the family to blend. They dont.

Would you have been upset if DH had referred to the boys as the children with his second wife?

Sorry KKNY. The things I wrote after the p.s. have nothing to do with the post. I shouldn't have assumed that people would know or remember the previous post that I wrote.
But as for the part that makes sense in the beginning. No, I don't care if my husband calls me his 10th wife. I'm just concerned for my little boys when they get older. Maybe it's just another reason I give myself to not have them involved in my life anymore. I'm not sure.

KKNY...Why dont the STEPKIDS STEP BACK AS THEY ARE ONLY THE HALF SISTERS TO MISTIS FAMILY !!!!!WHY did you diminish the boys as half brothers , the SD s are in the same boat....Talk about your bias showing...Quit picking on this poor girl..She does NOT need to be on the defensive with you

Because OP seems to be worried about the boys, not the girls (and as a mother, I would expect that).

Thank you Dotz. I really like this forum but it does seem like Stepmoms have to defend & sacrifice themselves alot. Maybe we should be called "SteponMoms". It appears that a stepmom is synonomous with "horrible, whiny, greedy,etc.". Thank you again!!

I don't think small children will worry about stuff like this unless the parents make an issue of it. If they question it, just explain he was married before and had children, so this is his second marriage and second family.

I wouldn't make an issue of it, but how would you feel if at 10 you were asked to step out of a family picture? I wouldn't have asked skids to remove themselves while we take a family photo. That would have been horrible of me. Would you? Maybe that is acceptable, fill me in. Maybe I worried too much about skids feelings. Biological children weren't asked anymore than stepchildren to enter into blended families either. So why shouldn't they be treated with just as much sensitivity as skids?

Misti,

I assume that the boys have plenty of time with dad when the girls arent around and can do pictures then. And I assume boys understand the girls dont get to live with both parents and my guess is they will understand more than you give them credit for.

Your love for your boys is very strong. My guess is your DH sees it too and (possibly subconsciously) is trying to compensate for the girls when they are there.

and PS I see a lot of SMs stepping on moms here.

Hi Misti,

I agree, hearing your husband refer to your family as the second family would be unbearable for me. I do think that is uncalled for.

However, the only thing I see with the pictures is that maybe the girls want a picture of just them with their father. It may not be intended as hurtful at all. I don't know, but I'm assuming they don't live with you guys.

It would be kind of like saying don't take pictures of your husband and the boys unless the SD's are around? See what I am saying?

Yeah...you're right the girls are here during the summer. I took many pictures of them with their Dad. It didn't really bother me when they asked for us not to be in the photos, but I thought how would that make the boys feel down the road. Like how do you handle weddings or grandchildren w/o hurting someone's feelings by asking them to not be in the family photo? I don't care about me. I could care less if I ever am in another photo(I've really put on the pounds) with them but it makes me concerned for the boys. I wouldn't care if they had professional photos solo or anything like that but when the boys are standing there & asking them to get out of the picture...seems kind of sad. I'm not worried strongly about this but just curious how do others handle this. I wouldn't make it an issue with them but would try & prevent an uncomfortable situation for my boys.

lol. I am a stepmom, but I have noticed something weird about most of the other stepmoms on this forum.

Why is it that virtually EVERY stepmom on here starts out her story by saying.....her new husbands ex was the one that wanted the divorce and left him for the other man.

I know women file for divorce more often than men do, mostly because women get strategic advantage for custody and support issues by filing first. But I really cant believe that that many women, all those ex wives "left husband for the other man"

Its statistically rare for a woman to leave her husband for another man. I am sure there are some, but I am also sure they seem to be over represented here.

I wonder how many husbands blame their ex wives for leaving for the other man out of anger or pique at having been left, or to excuse their own behaviour in causing a woman to seek divorce. I wonder how many husbands who are being divorced by their wives ASSume that any man their stbx dates was fooling around during the marriage. ANd how many new wives swallow the story because they want to believe their husband is innocent of wrong doing.

It does take two to have a bad marriage, and women dont usually leave men who are treating them right.

I think it's wrong to ask someone in a family to step out of a family picture. It could have been decided early that there would be different groupings, thus an opportunity to get one of the girls with dad. When we took our Christmas portraits last year, we took several with all of us, then one of each child individually, then me & my kids and him & his daughter. We also took one of me & DH, and a couple with just kids. It was fine. Nobody got hurt feelings. But Misti is right to have the concern that in the future, the 1st family will boot the 2nd family out of special occasion photos. It's rude and the girls should be told that it's rude. They aren't little children, they are almost grown (at the very least, they are old enough to understand etiquette) If you want to prevent that uncomfortable situation in the future, whenever there is a chance that photos will be taken, it should be discussed prior. When my husband and I got married, we were taking our wedding photos and when we got done, a few family members asked to have their pictures taken too. There's no reason why the photographer can't take a few more shots. At least ours didn't charge extra, but the portraits that the family members took, they had to pay extra for.

and I wouldn't like to be referred to the second family. I think if my husband called me his second family, I would call his first family, his 'practice' family. J/K

I have also noticed a disproportionate percentage of SMs here are married to Dads with custody. I chalk it up to those are the SMs carrying a heavier burden and needing to vent. And it may be a relationship between the mom leaving dad for TOM and dad ending up with custody. But I wish they wouldnt set forth general rules that dont make sense for SMs not married to dads with custody (real, physical custody). IMHO.

I'm not going to get into anything except photos:
I am a stepdaughter and am also on my way to being a stepmom.
When we have family photos or events that photos are being taken at, we do a lot of combinations and permutations.
We do:
- Absolutely everyone who is present and even remotely related by blood or marriage (I'm talking step-second-cousins-once-removed remote)
- Just parents/children/grandchildren who are related by blood (ie: my dad, my brother and his kids)
- Just the "families" (ie: my brother, his wife, and their kids)
- Just the siblings (ie: me, my two brothers and my sister)
- Just that generation (ie: my N&Ns and my stepN&Ns)
- Just that biologically related generation (ie: my N&Ns without my stepN&Ns)
- Just the gender (ie: my grandma, my SM, my sister, me, my stepsisters, my nieces)

You name it, we do the combo. Everyone is in and out of a million different photos so that everyone gets the photo they want and everyone feels included in it but we also retain our own familial identities without forcing the stepfamily.

When I graduated from my bachelor's, I had photos done with my dad and SM, as well as just me and my dad. When I get married, I will do the same. I love my SM, we are fairly close and I want photos with her because consider her a part of my family... but she's not my parent and I want some photos of just me and my dad too.

When I am with my BF and his son and we are taking photos, I take some of just my BF and A__, as well as some of the three of us together. Now that A__ and I are closer, I suspect we'll be taking some of just me and A__ too.

Hi--

I agree on both counts: "2nd family" NOT good terminology b/c the goal is to be one *blended* family, and kicking away two little kids who are practically begging to be in a family photo is not kind or necessary. And in a blended family situation the overtones of exclusion can be an especially loaded issue, at any age. The only conceivably acceptable excuse for so blatantly excluding a kid like that is that it was the very last picture on the very last bar of battery juice at the wedding (or other extremely important day) of one of the SDs and there had already been shots that included everyone. But generally, it's just so easy to snap an xtra pic or two for the sake of inclusion and self-esteem for the little kids. (Or for the older kids if the situation had been reversed.) I know it can get to be a complicated situation when some of the SK's live with you full-time and others don't, but it does seem like the simplest solution to this dilemma is more pix. Any and all groupings that are possible so that symbolically everyone knows they are both part of a cohesive family network that spans different generations/across the miles, etc. AND are special and important as individuals, each and every one. That there are times one kid will want to be alone with one parent and times that the girls will just want to be "the girls" together with their mom and the boys be "the boys" with their dad and times where everyone wants to be together with everyone. That everyone is allowed to have different relationships with everyone else in the family. All that would be necessary to say to the boys is this, in a light-hearted way: "Allright, allright you two little hams... you can be in this one... but we ALSO want a pic of just the girls, and other different groupings."

As for an alternative to the "2nd family" phrasing, howbout if DH simply says "my sons", since it happens to be neatly divided by gender as to which kids are from his 1st or 2nd marriages.

While it is true that the first family existed and the step parent enters into that second marriage with that full knowledge. The children from the first marriage didn't ask to be put in the step family situation and the new step parent should not feel slighted when the children of the first family want pictures of themselves with only their parent. However, the children of the second marriage equally did not ask to be born into a step family situation and they should not be treated like they are second best at any time. In my opinion, they are in the same boat and just because the children from the second marriage weren't born to the first wife, they are still the siblings of the first children. Therefore, to ask them to step out of a family picture is completely out of line. If the children from the first marriage want to arrange for dad to go take pictures with them alone, that's fine but if they are there as a group, it's just plain rude to exclude their siblings.

and there's no reason that several shots can't be taken as Ceph suggested. That's the best way to handle these situations.

Kathline, women who post here deal with problems with SKs or BMs or both. Many of these problems are related to BMs with ridicilous or inappropriate behavior. Women who do not have any problems with SKs and BMs do not post here. So this is not a fair representation of stepfamilies or BMs.

Many of these BMs are clearly messed up. The fact that they were cheating and left often unexptedly both their DHs and their kids goes hand to hand wiht their ridicilous behavior aftre the divorce. Women who leave marriage in a more dignified manner usually do not cause trouble to SMs of their children. So nobody would be posting about them.

I am a BM but nobody posts anything about me because I cause no problem to neither my kid nor my X nor SM.

I agree that it takes both people. MY BF's X did leave for TOM and moved in with him right away but she had few affairs prior to that (confessed and also there was evidence). BF always admitted that he did many things wrong and made many mistakes and didn't always knew how to meet her emotional needs. On top of evrything she was diagnosed manic depressive. But his problem is not that she left, but that's she cheated and packed when no one was there and didn't even told their children. It takes both but there are nicer way to leave. I didn't want to be married to my X either but I didn;'t cheat and didn't run away when he wasn't home.

As about CP fathers. I think those who have CP husbands post more often because they are more involved with SKs. Those who only see their SKs once a month don't deal with issues so they don't post here.

Ima,

The problem I see is that if the children of the second wife life with Dad and the children of the first dont, there are not really opportunities that many opportunities for pictures with just Dad. OP doesnt say much other than the children of the first marriage wanted some pictures with just Dad. I think she should have said, sure we'll do some pictures later with just you and Dad and some with everyone. And if she doesnt make a big deal of it, I doubt the boys will.

As to children of first and second wife being siblings, I beleive they are half-siblings. How they treat each other is up to them. My experience is that where parents dont force a relationship there is a much better chance for a good relationship later in life. And I beleieve that is true in divorced and non-divorced families.

This is from the original post KKNY
"I had taken plenty of pictures of them & DH, but they really pointed it out that their family is separate. They didn't want me & our sons in the photos."
I had taken many, about 20, with the girls & just their Dad. I showed them as I took them as I was going to make them a "Summers Memories" book. When they pointed it out is when it seemed odd, that they wanted to make an issue of it. I could care less if the boys aren't around them & they want photos alone w/ their Dad. I have actually encouraged them to go get professional ones, but they, DH too, are too lazy to go down and do it. I have said because they don't see each other except during the summer professional ones should be done. I don't force a relationship on anyone. My boys are

I don't call DD's brother "half-brother". neither does she. he is her brother. he calls DD "my sister", X talks to his son about her as his "sister". Etc. "half- siblings" sounds just plain bad.

I wouldnt expect anyone to call them halfs, I would expect them to call them by name or etc. This was in response to Imas comment that they are siblings. I think a lot will go into the equation of how they regard each other, including age differences where thy live, etc.

"I think a lot will go into the equation of how they regard each other, including age differences where thy live, etc."

I agree. Age difference is a huge factor (even in intact families), however, depending upon how often the children are together would define how they bond with one another (full-time versus every other weekend or less).

My son calls his half brother (from his step mom) 'little brother'.

All my kids are half siblings to each other and NEVER once in their life have they ever referred to each other as 'half'.

and my kids all have half siblings with their step mom's and at this point, they don't have a relationship but still don't use the word half.

Is it just me or does it seem that the terms used are insulting? Were they created to actually describe relationships or separate the superior & inferior?

I am over 20 years older than my youngest half sibling. Now, I don't go around saying 'half-sibling.' However, when it does come up in conversation, most people give me strange looks. I usually say, he is my brother from my fathers second marriage.

Now, my brother who is truly a step brother, I have never had to define or give a label because he is only 5 years younger than me. He is just brother.

I think people in general like labels, anyway.

age difference and geographical location have nothing to do with being siblings. what is that to do with anything? You might not be as close but you are siblings nonetheless. DD is 12 years older than her brother and they live in different countries, she sees him about 4 times a year, but she is on the phone with him every few weeks. They might never be as close as me and my brother who lives two blocks away and is only a year younger, but it doesn't make them less brother and sister.

And kkny do you mean by calling them by names? When you introduce your siblings you inevitably say: please met my brother. Or you say please met J. or A. or V. without saying he is your brother? And if people who do not know us that much see DD's brother's picture in my house and ask me who is that I say: DD's brother. I don't just say this is A.

I don't think it is insulting, but I think terms: half-brother or half-sister emphasizes the fact that they only share one parent instead of emphasizing the fact that they are brothers and sisters to each other.

My family is one of those families where that is just not going to work.

When we are introduced as a family, there are always looks. If there wasn't an explanation, people are left sitting there wondering did my stepmom have me when she was 10?

I think it is up to each individual relationship and how everyone feels about it.

I guess I'm alone in thinking it doesn't always NEED to emphasized. Like I said, my kids are all half siblings and they all have half siblings that aren't mine. Nobody refers to it, even in describing it. My son might say 'I have a little brother at my dad's' but when I hear a child introducing a half sibling, 'this is my half brother', it's usually because the parent's have emphasized it to their child. (especially if the child is younger) If the child is older or grown, they are more likely to decide on their own how they refer to a new sibling, such as your daughter. But if you corrected her every time she said 'my little brother' by reminding her that he's her half brother, eventually she would just call him 'my half brother' to make you happy. That's what I think is wrong. I don't think most kids care, I think it's the parents that emphasize it because they want the world to know THAT other child is only half related to theirs. I agree, that in some situations such as Nivea, if there is an age difference that would raise eyebrows, then maybe the explanation is needed. But I still don't think it's such a big deal. When my kids were on a cruise with me, my son (18 at the time) got on an elevator and a couple thought we were a couple. I had him very young and when we are out shopping, many people mistake us for a couple. He's 21 now and it's understandable that if I'm mistaken for a girlfriend, he'll say "that's my mom".

Nope, Ima... I agree with you!
I don't think that full/half/step matters too much... The fact is that they're siblings of some sort and why worry about the semantics to other people. YOU know who's who in your family.

People who you might actually care if they know the real "who's who" of your family probably already know... Or will ask if they don't.
Do I care if my friend's great-uncle knows that my stepsister is my stepsister, or is it just simpler to say she's my sister?
My brother and I look nothing alike, but his daughter looks just like him, only with my colouring. Whenever we're out, people assume we're a couple and she's our daughter. We correct people who may ever see us again, but does it matter if the woman at the admission counter at the pool thinks we're married? Nope, not at all.

Nivea's right though, it's all about how each individual feels about the situation, and where their comfort zone is.
(My middle stepsister would FLIP if any of us called her our sister, but the other two are perfectly fine with it. I've always called my dad and stepmom "my parents", but my oldest brother said "my dad and stepmom" for at least five years)

I think .... If they grow up in the same house ... half is not something that is defined ... they are just siblings.

I have had to tell my SD quite a bit recently that her sister is just her sister... not her "half-sister" even though she is ... because of the way she is saying it.

SD9 has recently started saying is "my half-sister home" what do you mean half? she is a whole person or do you mean is half of her home? ... like just her legs? or just her head?

She refers to my son by his name not "is my SB home?" I am trying to understand why all of a sudden (in the past month or so) she is using "my half-sister".

I would guess that someone has pointed it out to her. It could also be that kids at school use that term when referring to their own families and she has decided to use it as well. I think it would be odd for a kid to start using that wording on their own.

That's what I was thinking too ... just not sure who is mentioning it... really don't care ... just trying to make a point with her that she is her sister not a "half" a person.

My guess is ....SD9 kept saying my sister this my sister that and someone "corrected" her by saying half-sister.

Like I said its not what she is saying its how she is saying it... I left my brush in my half sisters car, (on the phone with a friend) I am going out with my half sister today.

sounds to me here that the teenage stepkids have theproblem and are not forgiving sm here. I'm glad dad opened his eyes.
As for forcing...lol....well no one forced the parents here to divorce. Good ole Biomom left for ANOTHER MAN! GREAT example for her mature daughters. It shows soooo much in how they behalf. That must spew hate and insults about another human being. WOW... they have so much respect for another adult eh?;) Guess their mother teaches them loads of respect, honesty and loyalty when someone takes their vows in front of God.
Misty, your sons are their blood brothers, half or full and they must accept it. If they dont, the door is open. No one wants to be aroudn a sour puss and they are teenagers learning to become adults. If they choose this path , let them make their decision and let them make themselves excluded. You did not exclude them , they decided that for themselves.
No one is forcing anything on anyone. Cause is you say oh poor girls were force into stepfamily well DiDO FOR MOM TOO that has the other man!!! how do they treat him???? better or worse since he had an affair with their mother.?
When they come over pictures are of the entire family ...ENTIRE! and if they dont want it , the door is there.
My SD and SS are included in pics . We have pics together and we have pics apart...They see them all aruond the house. Their mother tried to instigate this GARBAGE idea of separate and i sat all down. I said ' what happens at your mothers house stays there. Her rules , her ideas, her beliefs STay at her house' how she wants her house run is her business BUt here we are a unit. We communicate if we don't like something. There will be times we will do things together and other times we wont. But that is life. Dont be hurt. Its not done on purpose. You are all brothers and sisters, You are all human and everyone here under this roof must be treated with respect , honesty. This is family...not animals.
Blended families are rough from many standpoints. No one forces anything. You fall in love and make the best of this world. ITs hard as it is in a non blended family why would you confuse the kids in this manner. ? All the kids are important...first second third..who cares!

imamommy you missed my point. i said exactly the same thing as you did: it does not need to be emphasized that kids don't share the same parents. both I and DD call her brother: brother. And X and his family call DD: sister. And that's how DD and her brother call each other. No halves.

kkny calls them "half-siblings" but I disagreed and epxlained why. specifically because I don't think one needs to emphasize who are the parents.

Organicmaria,
Yes, it's always been to keep things separate in the eyes of the BM. Her parents were divorced & they never saw one another & the wife her Dad has, she hates. They seem like good people, her SM being the principal of a school & kind when going to school functions of step grandkids. They call her by her first name & I think she has been with the grandfather for 20 years now so all of the skids life. I also know they raised one of the other stepgrandkids. I think the skids missed out on a good grandma & good sm. I only call them stepgrandkids here for clarification. I would have never referred to them that way otherwise.

My great-grandmother and grandmother were both divorced and had children from each of their marriages, so our family "tree" has some twists and turns that go way back.

I recently made application for membership in a lineage-based society. In doing so, I had to prove my lineage and provide documentation. It was interesting.

As I went through the application process, it was documented that my Dad's sister was really his half-sister and thus, she was my half-aunt. And that her daughters were really my first half-cousins. And that my aunt's daughters were really half-sisters because they had different fathers.

It was also documented that the man I called "great-grandfather" when I was a child, was actually my great-grandmother's second husband. He wasn't related to me.

In our family, we never discussed or thought about any of this. We were a family and we loved one another.

I think it depends on how people choose to look at family members. They can be precise and view one another from the genetic standpoint of their degree of relatedness. Or they can just be family and go by what they feel in their hearts.

My dad is actually my step father. He and my mother married when I was 10. I have never been close to my father and have seen him maybe 20 times in my life - he lives quite far away. To his credit he did come to meet mom's new husband and make sure he was "okay." A few years later he agreed to let my stepfather adopt me.

Fast forward to my wedding day. My father, his wife and step-son all flew to be there. But my DAD was the one to walk me down the isle and dance with me to Celine Dion's song "Because You Loved Me." I would have never thought to have it any other way.

Our granddaughter couldn't choose between her father and her dad so she walked down the isle alone.