Aliris...this might be lame of me to ask but did you mean Los Angeles - or Louisiana? I'm in So Cal and if you meant that, I'd love to know too!

Ferguson's in Santa Monica was the place I was trying to remember. I'd also look into out General Plumbing Supply in Brentwood.

Hi slush: sorry; Los Angeles.

And rococo: bingo plus. Ferguson's it is and drat but I didn't read this until getting home just now.

And since I know everyone is endlessly fascinated with the minutiae of my shopping neuroses, I will recount for you that:

I garnered a pinch-hitter for my morning responsibilities and took off along LA's notorious highways for a 40min drive to the SF Valley and a highly recommended showroom therein. Indeed I encountered miserable traffic but managed to dodge it, thereby coming in just under my self-imposed 40min radius of travel at a cool 39 minutes.

I walk into Universal Appliances, a warren of rather beautiously laid-out appliances and - a good sign - two people at least said hello. The place is scattered with sales wo/men. mostly clacking away on computers and chatting to one another but at least they looked up, better than my experience usually. Still, no offers of help. I am under no delusions that this is not something about me and my own body language; but I never get help in these places. There are customers in earnest consultation for hours with clean salesmen, but they none of them ever have time for me. When I happen, as a generality, ever to get and retain the attention of these people, always it is the case that someone else comes up, barges in and monopolizes the salesman who is supposed to be dealing with me. Very frustrating.

And no different this time. Eventually someone did bestir themselves and ask whether I had a question. I had, but it turns out he was a cabinet salesman and really didn't know anything about the faucet I was curious to see. He "tried to help" by going to their faucet person, but that person basically ignored him too, swishing away in catalogs. Evidently he was busy and/or helping with another customer, but no word of explanation was forthcoming, no apology for inattention or any of the above. Just rude ignoring of point-blank questions posed not even by me, but this other trying-to-help gentleman.

So frustrating. Plus, they didn't have any faucets really hooked up either and they didn't really have any of those semipro commercial-style blasters I'm interested in seeing. They did, however, have those KWC faucets and I can see, they really are a cut above and beyond. Quite qualitatively different.

I left, really, really miffed. 40 minutes travel, 35 minutes in the store, no help and a return-trip to negotiate. I was so frustrated I actually even phoned the KD to ask for suggestions. She, of course, was not there, but another at her store managed to obtain a recommendation: enter rococo from god-knows-where in this country, who also knew: Fergusons.

Now, I know where this place is and tried to go there some 15 years ago but they wouldn't let me in. Literally the place was locked and I was asked via buzzer whether I was a contractor and when I said no, they told me I needed to come back with my contractor, they wouldn't let me in without one. I was standing on the street. And I don't have a contractor; I guess, therefore, the answer is that I *am* a contractor, but I have no license or anything. I was so miffed I have never gone back; didn't really know I could.

That's not quite true, I did have some vague notion that things had changed there. I noticed they'd moved a few doors down and at one point they had a sign that said "open to the public" or some-such. I was still not particularly inclined to try the place. Elephants don't forget.

But I was desperate today. So frustrated for my wasted time and I had devoted this morning to physically seeing faucets so I thought, as I had after all asked, the least I could do was follow-through. I am glad that I did.

This place was fantastic. Who knew? First I would up in the contractor's part and the parts-guy I spoke with was terrific. Nice, plain, straight-forward, knowledgeable about what he knew; honest to say when he didn't. It was hugely helpful, and this wasn't even their showroom. It turns out they have a rather terrific showroom next door. There they have a long, long trough of a sink embedded in a counter with a long phalanx of kitchen sinks set up to spray in. Totally cool. Very, very helpful, very interesting, very informative, very nice. Working faucets; what a concept.

Moreover, while there were just two salesmen in the place they had employed a "greeter" - someone able to look stuff up in her computer if necessary, someone there to tell you what was going on - namely that there were just two salesmen, it was Saturday and busy but -- can I get you a glass of water while you're waiting? Wow; you cannot imagine how far, far, far, far that goes. What a perfect setup; I could look at the stuff, grab answers to specific questions, not have to deal with someone geared to just smile and sell who knows less than me, and even received a little interpersonal hospitality as well. Thank you Fergusons'. All is forgiven. Do they even know how diametrically opposite this is from my experience of several years ago? Could this possibly be the same store? So weird.

Whatever.

So ... for anyone from Los Angeles who comes to this thread in the future, allow me please to highly recommend Fergusons as a functional, comfortable showroom. It's on Broadway in SM; I think there's at least one other showroom in the notorious Robertson area that personally I would give a lot to never have to negotiate, but I suppose could possibly be worth it all the same - but I don't myself know anything about it. Best check the web.

One thing I learned from the parts-guy at Ferguson's is that they apparently manufacture or at least brand their own line of Chinese-made stuff. They stand by it unconditionally for its lifetime (or is that mine -- what does "lifetime" mean in this context, come to think of it???) and they oversee, supposedly, the construction of the goods.

I am guessing this is key, not the literal origin of manufacture, but the oversight of manufacture, wherever it might happen to have been made and/or constructed (in this day and age of parts outsourcing and nationalistic requirements that result in pieces being fitted together in countries quite separate from the origin of their manufacture, this matters as well).

I'm actually a little bit tired of the frankly racist suggestion that goods manufactured in China cannot be of high quality. I know of at least one such paradigm where the manufacture of high quality goods has been achieved in this poorer country, achieved through careful oversight: Boston pianos. They are made by Steinway, supposedly, in Chinese factories and I for one am utterly thrilled with that particular purchase. I know this is outside the scope of the TKO, but I purchased a Boston piano a few years ago that I think garnered me a fantastic instrument for an order of magnitude less cost than the name-brand. To me it feels clear that this cost-cutting measure, in these circumstances, resulted in a fantastic product for someone in my circumstances.

I don't see why the same can't be true of kitchen faucets. But I would appreciate knowing something of the oversight of their construction. I have been presuming that because Kraus is so highly beloved by its purchasers, that this might be just such an instance of reasonable quality. But I really don't know of course. Encountering a local place that purports to have setup just such an arrangement and will in-person stand by the goods; that seems like a fantastic opportunity.

As has been noted elsewhere, it's not as if Chinese workers aren't equally worthy of support and potentially trust. That's my view at least. Having the opportunity to benefit from a professionals' verification of the quality - that's a service I'd happily pay for.

I think I've rambled on long enough here. I extend my appreciation for the attention should you happen to have read this far. Hopefully those irritated by this monologue will have stopped reading long ago.

And perhaps those of you in rural places who rue the absence of alternatives for viewing consumer goods will have some insight into the irony of how difficult it is to view them when surrounded by stuff as well. It's a little like trying to take a drink from a waterfall. True, there's a lot of buying and a lot of stuff to be bought around here, but filtering out the noise for the helpful content is no mean feat. I've had a hard time of it. If you've a ton of money or time, perhaps, it could be easier; dunno. But frankly, I miss living where the choices are fewer.

Aliris, which part of LA are you in? (it's a big place...). I had good luck at HD Altmans on Beverly Blvd. in Beverly Hills. It's located upstairs over some other shops, but they have a really good selection and my salesman (Zed) was very helpful. I *think* they had active faucets, but it's been a while so I can't say for sure....

aliris you are droler than ever. Dr-O-le.

I'm the one who pointed out that Kraus might not be, or maybe is, a fine company to buy a faucet from.
Brass waterways have to be low-lead.
This is new.
It's not law, in China.
Kraus doesn't say if their faucets are low lead content, on their web site.

Cartridges have to have a ceramic disc.
Or, if not, you might like to know THAT.

Kraus doesn't say either on their web site.

Furthermore, they talk a lot about their sinks.
I've found that many sink manufacturers fancy themselves as faucet companies too.
They bring in anyone else's faucets and call it their own.
Many little companies do this.
Franke does this too; but it's a very large company.
I guess Franke people would take a lot of care to ensure the faucet meets quality and reputation.
Because it's such a big company with so much else at stake.
I just don't get that same feeling when I look at the Kraus information on their web site today.
When I call Franke, I ask where the faucet originally comes from. And they tell me.
If you like Kraus, buy from them.

--

Working faucets,with real water spraying through their aerators.
What a concept.

Your post was very good.

Hth

Slush's DW here. Thanks for sharing Aliris19. I enjoyed reading it. We are in Rancho Cucamonga (let the jokes began) so the thought of driving to Santa Monica with three little kids gives me anxiety. But after reading about your experience at Fergusons - I looked at their locations on their website, and lo and behold they say that there is one in Ontario (only 2.5 miles away from me). It says it's a showroom, but also says "(Satellite)" so I'm not sure what that means. I'll be calling them tomorrow with the hopes of being able to actually see and test out faucets there. Thanks again for sharing.

OT but since there are some So Cal TKO people here, I'd be so grateful for any suggestions in finding a good Slab Yard/Fabricator to work with that's closer to San Bernardino as opposed to Los Angeles. We are only 45 miles away but if you are from here - you know that usually means a 2 hour or more drive in stop and go traffic - which according to DH (who is originally from Boston) says if you drive more than an hour away back East, you're two states away and going on vacation.

Hi Burntfingers -- thanks. I have to confess: I am totally petrified of the Robertson area. It's a parking-thing and it's a can't-get-there-from-here thing. I'm in WLA and crows could fly back and forth to Hollywood on 6 round trips before I could drive there from here. I guess Robertson is a little shy of Hollywood, but [and this is worth typing in the html code for: Where Do You Park??? ? I admit I am completely intimidated by the retail stuff along that strip of street. I'm not really sure why; maybe it wouldn't be so bad. But it just looks to me as if they will lock the doors if they see you coming in sneakers. Just my defensive impression.

Anyway, I appreciate the suggestion and should I decide to grasp this inferiority-wackiness by the neck, I will start right there where you suggest. I agree it is ludicrous of me to be so close to all this ground-zero style and design and display and stay skulking in the shadows.

David - thanks for the reminder about low lead. I'm pretty sure it's code here so I should definitely check by phoning them.

What's a "cartridge" in this context? I've heard about the ceramic disk, I gather that's basically the diverter between spray and nozzle?

David -- if you don't mind my asking, are you a well-schooled homeowner or trained plumber/contractor? I can't quite tell if you've just a lot of personal experience or a lifetime of putting up with the TKO. Just curious.

Slush - that will be terrific if the Ontario showroom is well setup. I will be thrilled if my experience can be of any use to another.

If you're looking for slabs, there seem to be a few distinct clusters of yards. Anaheim is one; also up closer to the mountains, dunno what it's called -- not Alta Dena but around there; probably further west along the foothills, closer to you. That's another cluster. And then there's north San Fernando Valley, plus a few closer down into Van Nuys.

I think there are a few Big Boys, and then some smaller ones and then vast expanses of little guys. Depending on what you're looking for, with good sneakers I'm sure you can find good bargains. But I would not ever buy a slab without a fabricator to give their imprimatur.

I just had an interesting experience with one of the Big Boy yards in Anaheim. They had some Rainforest Green in large slabs that I wanted but I'd seen it and noted it had a significant 'non-conformity' (technically, not really, but not sure what language to use) - there was, basically, a big white stripe and I was pretty sure this signified a very different composition and probably hardness of material. But I hadn't quite thought through the meaning for my "application". But the fabricator sure did. Though they were perfectly willing to sell these slabs to us, it turns out there was a significant crack running right through that white stripe. I hadn't caught it, just the vague suspicion of it. I am awfully glad that guy came along to physically inspect the slabs before I was out the thousands for it. Because you know it is me who would be paying the "restocking fee" even if there's a middle man involved. At least, who wants to get into that fight? Way better to have halted the problem before it happened.

I'm really relieved about that and my take-home message is: I have hunches about stuff and it may or may not be true but it's (a) worth listening to and (b) worth getting someone who does know to weigh in.

So - I have hired a fabricator who I think is really good, but I haven't finished with him yet so the jury is still out. I'm happy to pass along his name. Please contact me offlist. He just installed a big job in a firehouse in Redlands I think it was, so he's obviously not averse to coming out your way. I think that's just the way it's done. Between moms hauling their kids around to soccer meets and contractors rolling to jobs, 80% of LA's traffic is covered.

As for slab yards, I can tell you some of the big guys. In Anaheim is Arizona Tile, for example (there are many others). They'll let you look, sort of, but won't give you a price; you need a fabricator.

Other big guys include MSI http://www.msistone.com/ /> I'm told they're Indian so apparently if it's Indian granite you're looking for they get a good pick of that (which I actually am looking for only - drat - they're out!). They have some of the coolest stone-tile "quartzite" stuff -- just really beautiful mosaics and - don't know the word for it, pre-fitted on a mesh backing. Backsplash-type stuff for the future. Really, really pretty IMO.

Then there's Bedrosian's - nice guys. http://www.bedrosians.com/

There's Marble Unlimited. I know of their Van Nuys showroom but whether they have a yard out your way I'm not sure. They are a good cross between retail and wholesale. They will take time with you, the end user but they have lots and lots and lots of very good stuff. A lot of "high end" stuff too, which doesn't frankly interest me except intellectually. But I found it a good place to start bootstrapping the process of figuring out what's out there. It's a big process.

Good luck! I'm happy to share the little I've picked up offlist.

if you drive more than an hour away back East, you're two states away and going on vacation .

Precisely! Sometimes I am just blown away by the traffic reports telling me of sig alerts (for those of you from away, that means the freeway is shut down), say at the El Toro "Y". That's as far away from me, practically, as the big town from where I grew up, at 2 hours away. They are telling me stories about traffic jams as far away as a trip so big we did it only a few times a year, on Very Special Occasions. Imagine being updated every 5 minutes on the traffic in Boston from northern New England? Absurd.

"faucet cartridge" in a search engine.

Evidently the cartridge faucet is one of four types: http://homerepair.about.com/od/plumbingrepair/ss/faucet_types.htm

Slush - I asked at Ferguson's this morning; evidently all the Ferguson's are independently owned, part of this unbrella company that is actually "a Wolseley Company". Evidently they're the Whole Foods of the plumbing world, having vertically integrated the market across the country, gobbling up small dealers and reps for many years now; I guess they're the biggest out there, supposedly. Funny, as I was not particularly even aware of them, due to the inhospitable interaction of many years prior.

I think it's well worth a phone call to inquire into the "satellite"-ness of the Ontario office. It's likely that's just a parts counter and not a show room. Hopefully this guess is wrong but I would definitely take a second to scout it out in advance. (sorry!)

FWIW I'm beginning to value increasingly more the sense that this is a selection that could critically depend on actual sight (as opposed to sight-unseen internet ordering). Even though it means hauling kids, it's possible this journey just might be valuable. If you can possibly stand it, I might opt for the upscale-est showroom you can find, attitudes, notwithstanding. They seem to have more to physically show, I think.

G'luck!

Aliris, Altmans' has parking behind their building. If you go, it might be a good idea to make an appointment. That way you'd be sure of a person to work with you, and of a parking space. I just dropped in, but I don't live far away.

The building is also pretty low key, doesn't shout SHOWROOM! from the street. I'd recommend doing a street-view Google search so you know what you're looking for. Here's a link that should show you the street view....it seems to default to the map, but if you click on the photo in the upper left it should switch.

Have fun!

Here is a link that might be useful: HD Altman's street view

hi slush DW...

As you now know we are neighbors...(What's so funny about the name Rancho Cucamonga??? Sounds perfectly okay to me..)

My GC uses a wonderful fabricator with 25 years experience. The fab met me at Arizona Tile in Ontario and did exactly what I asked for in terms of templating. Let me know if you want his number and I will call my GC who is right here in Upland.

KA:)

Burnt fingers - but if I go there, won't I then have to stop into Sweet Lady Jane's and get treated poorly (along with hundreds if not thousands of others) and then feel grumpy? It's sort of a ritual, no? It's been years since they've walked on me...

Here is a link that might be useful: amusing

Valley Girl, here. Ferguson's in Woodland Hills has a pretty showroom & knowledgeable consultants. I spent days looking at the TKO eye-candy there. You can find drool-worthy stone in showrooms all along Sherman Way, just west of the 170, but I found my slabs at Stoneville, Saticoy & Coldwater Cnyn.

Does anyone remember how Al Bundy LOVED his "Ferguson" toilet????(tee-hee)

Thanks for all the information Aliris19. I called the local Ferguson and unfortunately they are not a "showroom", but the nearest is in Riverside, which is not too far. It would definitely be worth the drive to be able to really test out the faucets. Thank you very much!

That is scary about that granite that had a crack. I'm glad you were able to avoid a huge hassle. We will definitely be taking a fabricator with us who is more knowledgeable then me. (My extent of stone knowledge is ...ohhh that one is pretty!)

Kitchenaddict - haha it just seems whenever I tell someone the city I live in (mostly people out of state) they think I'm joking, and usually bring up the episode of Bugs Bunny where they mention it. I'll be calling you today to hopefully look at your gorgeous granite. Thanks!

Hi slush DW..

I know the Bugs Bunny episode you are referring to! Such a classic...they don't make witty cartoons like that anymore...

Looking forward to your call..

KA:)

Sweet Lady Jane's? Boy, I haven't been there in...forever! Maybe... 15 years?? I found their cakes waaayy too sweet. So, no temptation for me!

burntfingers - In truth me neither. I just do remember the location as part of that place. When they were new their stuff, IMO, was good and the behavioral problems were less chronic. Just sort of an era past; part of a time when I rued more than now that "you can't get there from here".

Who is Al Bundy? Is this an egregious oversight considering Bundy is one of the major thoroughfares around here?

Al Bundy was the character played by Ed O'Neill in "Married with Children". Aquired taste, but the episode about his beloved "Ferguson- the king of bowls!" was classic potty humor IMO.

I'm not sure of the name origin of Bundy Dr., but Nicole Brown (Simpson) certainly made it infamous. I used to live very close & the congestion after the murders was intolerable. I still try to avoid travel on Bundy/Centinela as all costs.