I'm curious why you don't want a lazy susan? I find mind a FAR better use of space than my previous blind corner cabinet. I keep all my small appliances on mine, and it keeps them so easily accessible. It sounds like you have plenty of small appliances yourself, so in my opinion, it would be a perfect solution for you.

OK, other than that, I think your basic layout is a good one--very similar to my own, so I find it easy to like :). I would make a few minor changes, though.

I'd scoot the stove over a few inches toward the corner to make it more protected from the traffic. You could accomplish this either by making the flanking uppers symmetrical (21" on each side) or by making them asymmetrical but opposite (24" on the left and 18" on the right), and adjust the base cabinets accordingly.

You don't indicate the width of the long aisle, but it looks about the same as the one at the stove end. I like tighter aisles myself, but this may be too tight in front of the refrigerator. It's nice to be able to have the door wide open and still have room to maneuver. We have a side by side and about 42" in front of it, and it works fine. If you have a single door refrigerator, you may want the aisle even wider than that. You could solve this in at least two ways: simply move the island over to make the aisle wider or flip the pantry and refrigerator. I prefer the former, because I like having counter and uppers for glassware immediately next to the fridge.

I would make the island bigger. The length is pretty good, but you could easily make it wider. My kitchen is slightly narrower than yours (14'9") and I have an 18"-deep pantry cabinet on the other side of the island and I still managed to make it 40" wide. You could go as wide as 48" or 50" and give yourself more cabinets under your overhang for storage of seldom-used kitchen items, kid supplies, or whatever. In your house, it sounds like the added storage space would be a huge bonus. Given your lifestyle, I think you would love having a huge island to spread out a buffet for parties or kids' projects or whatever.

You may want to consider a different placement for your microwave. If you haven't had an OTR unit before, you may not like it. The venting systems tend to be inefficient and most people find they take up too much of the cook's head room. It also prevents anyone from getting to the micro while you're at the stove. As your kids get older, this could be a real issue. There are lots and lots of creative placements of microwaves on this forum. You might want to do a search to see if one of the other options appeals to you.

Finally, you might consider swapping your stove with your fridge. That's how mine are arranged in my very similar space, and I really like it that way. I had thought I might regret having the fridge farther from the eating area, but we haven't even noticed it as an issue. I much prefer having the long side of the island accessible from the stove. It dramatically expands the prep zone, which is always a good thing. I never have an issue with people walking behind me to get to the refrigerator, because it's just more natural to use the open aisle on the other side of the island when someone is at the stove or prepping at the island. I like being able to take something directly out of the oven and placing it on the table without a hike. If I'm cooking on the stovetop, I can take my pan to the table and scrape scrambled eggs or stirfry or whatever directly onto plates, again without a hike.

I love your idea of a "mud corner", especially since that space would likely be a natural magnet for kid clutter anyway. Giving a more planned space could keep the clutter under control and the space looking nice.

You have a terrific project planned, and you are sure to get loads of enjoyment out of this expansion!

That south wall would be a perfect place to build in some great busy-place storage while at the same time creating an architectural feature to dress up the view in that direction.

I'm imagining your windows up nice and high, attractively spaced, with storage built in below them wall to wall. It could be as deep as you feel you need or have the space for. The top would function as display space. Storage could be all closed, with the benefit of additional insulation in winter, or include some open display or work space. The end by the door could have short-person-height storage to hide all that stuff that piles up where kids come and go or include a bench. Or you could do a pair of built-in seats or one in the middle (with toy storage under and bookcases facing into it for snuggling up?), etc, etc.

I had almost exactly the same comments/questions as Holligator, with the exception of swapping the fridge and stove, which I hadn't considered. If you use the patio a lot for entertaining and having the fridge handy to that could be helpful, it's an idea well worth considering. The concerns I shared were scooting the stove a bit to the right, the corner cabinet configuration with the blind corner combined with the tiny 12" cabinet instead of a lazy susan, and the aisle width between sink run and island. You are fortunate to have the big doorway on the seating side of the island, so have room to move it away a bit.

One other issue I wonder about is if a 30" fridge will meet your needs, and if you might want to at least make it possible to replace that fridge in the future (or for future owners) with a 36" fridge. Maybe put in some fillers or narrow storage that can be easily removed at that time, if desired.

I completely agree with holligater on the blind cabinet, believe me I have one & it stinks. I always try to design kitchens around that. & you have plenty of room to do a corner cabinet. It doesn't have to be a lazy susan, allthough those are a lot nicer than they used to be, but they also have just open "easy reach" cabinets. Then you could put a 12" tray base next to your 30" drawers. I also like the suggestion to even up the sizes around the stove. Giving you more space to the left of the stove.
I'd also give yourself more room around the island, at least 42" opening the range, dishwasher & frig, you would want room to move behind open doors. Plus with 3 small children, they tend to like to run circles around things. The more space there the better!
You mentioned needing space for brooms, mops,... is there room for a new closet in the really big new hallway or is there another solution for that that I don't see ?
Good Luck, sounds like a great project, wish I could do something like that.

Have you considered recessing the refrigerator into the wall? It is a simple handyman type task. you just cut away the wall and remove the stud, reframing with king and jack studs like you were framing in a door just wide enough for your fridge to slide into. The extra 3 3/4 inches gives it a more built-in look. Also post your layout in the kitchens forums over at IKEA Fans for some additional feedback from people like me who obsess over IKEA kitchen layouts. Lots of good tips.

Good luck. I looks lovely so far.

Congratulations on an exciting expansion and especially for the wonderful approach you're taking toward it!

Could you move the opening to the LR down a few feet? Then build a pantry cab in that NW corner. Move the frig down toward the end of the sink run, scoot the sink over, move the range down as stated, and enlarge the island moving it back some as well.

How exciting to be planning for all that new space!

I really like what you've done so far. I think your idea for a mud space is a good one. When the kids get to be school age, it will be great to have a space to store the things they'll need on the way out the door. I wonder if you could make the door the the garden at least part glass so you could do without the window next to it? That would allow you the full length and height of wall for hooks for coats, shelves, etc. Also, the mudspace can also be a convenient place for charging cell phones and the like, which I only mention so you can plan adequate electrical outlets for the area.

I second the idea of widening the island so you can fit 6 full sized base cabinets under there, and scooting the two stools around to the dining space end of the island. It seems like those cabinets would be a good place to store your often used small appliances. If you could work electric into the island, you wouldn't have to haul them all over the kitchen.

And I know you are not focusing on this right now, but I am practically drooling over all the storage options for your old kitchen. (Ideally, I think I would have half or more of my house be storage!) If you don't do a bathroom, that's a good place for a small utility closet for your mops and buckets. And/or you could do a butler's pantry type arrangement with a small sink for hand-washing and drinking water and an under-counter fridge for kids drinks and snacks.

Oooooor, you could move the pantry to that side of the kitchen and recess it into the north end of the old kitchen so the door is flush with the rest of the wall. You'd have a lot more options for pantry dimensions that way, and the fridge would then be at the end of its run, so if you decide you need a bigger one someday, you could easily accommodate it.

It really is going to be a lovely space. Enjoy!

OK, this is exactly why I turned to all of you in the first place! You've given me tons to think about and I can't wait to park DH in front of the computer for him to read it, too.

I think I've come around to the lazy susan (I had images of scrounging around for canned goods on a turntable). But now I see how it would be a great spot for small appliances. Love the idea of wall to wall storage in the dining room, too.

I had that same thought as rhome about the 30" fridge, too. Leaving room somehow for a future 36" fridge would be smart.

I'm concerned about the dining area, though. If you have some wall to wall storage there, even if it's only a foot or so deep, then your dining table and chairs get pushed that much closer to the island.

You've got your door to the garage right there,...is that a high-traffic lane between that door and the door to the LR? It appears that's the path from the garage to the rest of the house. So you're basically pushing the table further into the traffic zone...enlarging the island a lot and moving the stools to the south end of the island could cause a squeeze, too.

I love your ideas and cawila's for your old kitchen space. If you can put up a drawing of that space and your planned new kitchen space together, I'll bet the layout gurus here (I'm not among them!) could come up with some great ideas on how best to use that space for storage, messages, etc.

I think your style choices sound really great. It will be fun to watch your project take shape -- you sound energized!

Peace
How exciting for you and your family -

I echo Holligators comment about the OTR micro - you have a great spot for your range that offers easy access to properly vent straight out the exterior wall there - you won't regret making that change.

Also, the proposed mud area - in the dinning area - I would see if you can't reconfigure something there. I have a tiny mud area by our back door outside the kitchen - it is separate - I think having the mud area in the kitchen would not serve you well. It will always be looking messy - you will have a lovely new kitchen but staring at shoes/coats/hats/gloves & the likes not to mention the dirt that will trapse in with it. The proposed space looks too small & you would need a more bullet proof flooring in that area as well - wood flooring will be looking tired there in no time. Given that you haven't broken ground I would see if you can get a bump out for mud area or reconfig the dinning area.

Is that a window to the left of the hutch?
do you have a spot for pull out trash

I see lots of new windows - how do the relate to your existing?

Looking good -

Is the breakfast room below a "bumped out" space compared to the rest of the house? (I see a window at the lower left and lower right.) If so, then I think a "mental reorganization" of how you use the space might be in order.

I see using a large "farmhouse table" in the center of the kitchen rather than an island and a seating area. It can serve as island and breakfast seating, especially if you have an additional dining space for "formal" dining. I'd put floor to ceiling shallow pantries on the west wall, and make the south wall end just beyond the fridge. I'd keep the same footprint of the house though, and make most of the "breakfast area" into a porch or patio area with french doors all along the whole wall, creating a "wall of windows" with that southern exposure and light. Where you have the doorway to the garage, I'd create a small mud area for dropping jackets and shoes (with an internal window into the home to keep the light flowing) One big bonus to this idea is that a porch space won't be heated and cooled space, so the remodel would be cheaper. Although---a "wall of french doors" might eat up that $$ difference! LOL!

Just some outside the box thoughts on how to get around the redundancy of island seating and breakfast seating but still manage to use the space more advantageously.

No wonder I couldn't find any pictures of OTC microwaves in the cabinet magazines...You've convinced me to put it elsewhere, perhaps the island.
So, can we buy an inexpensive range hood and hide it behind a decorative cabinet? Will that work with painted cabinets? ie, it won't make the upper cabinets all sticky and icky?

No wonder I couldn't find any pictures of OTR microwaves in the cabinet magazines...You've convinced me to put it elsewhere, perhaps the island.

So, how do range hood cabinets work with painted cabinets? ie, it won't make the upper cabinets all sticky and icky? Is it possible to purchase an inexpensive range hood and hide it underneath the decorative cabinet? Or is it more cost effective to just splurge for the SS hood and forgo the cabinets?

Peace
I've posted a link to under cab range hoods - It depends on what range you are trying to vent - size, btu's - try to see one live in a showroom before choosing. If your range stays on an exterior wall you can go straight out - which is the optimal install method - I would venture to say that you would want one with at least 500 CFM's (w/o knowing what range you have)

With the right hood & install - no the surrounding cabs should no get icky

gl

So we can take a look at the big picture, I used our floor plan that the appraiser gave us and made a few notes on it. The red ink indicates where the new addition will be; the blue ink shows where our current kitchen is.

We will almost surely put a pantry or storage closet where the fridge currently is. I originally was thinking that the wall where the sink currently is would make an awesome desk/message center. But being that we're a family of 5 with 1 bathroom, I'm lobbying for a 1/2 bath in that spot. (This all depends upon whether we dig out a full basement and plumb one in there....a whole other post).

I also need to start a post about how to negotiate this with your spouse! :) We've said that we need a "jump ball" arrow like in basketball when the 2 sides are fighting for the ball. I say this because if it were entirely up to me I might lay things out differently, and I would DEFINITELY get myself some french doors to the patio, among other things...

Oh, and take a look at the stove wall -- It's load bearing, but we're thinking of taking it down so we would essentially have an opening from the living room all the way to the back of the house. That blue box with the lines in it is the chimney, so that ain't coming down!

Structurally, it's always cheaper to extend a gable than it is to take down a load bearing wall and extend a home in that direction. It appears that the 13' width across the front might be a gabled roofline that extends front to back with the sunroom being a shed roof all the way across the back? If so, then just extending the gable in that direction would be more cost effective. Also, additions that extend as gables from a main structure are less costly than are ones that extend from a corner of a home. You're dealing with mucho expensive structural supports to add on the addition the way you've got it laid out. The least costly solution of course is to merely repurpose the sunroom without adding any space. I'm not knocking your ideas, I'm just trying to give you a perspective of potential cost savers that will still allow you to have a more functional space. I'm not against spending 80K on just the structural elements of a design, if that will be the ultimate best money spent, but I think that you can spend your money more wisely by designing something with a different footprint. That will mean more money for actual kitchen goodies!

Oak, I'm listening!
Here's a couple pictures of the exterior - front view and back porch view:

{{gwi:1843361}}

You can probably see the back better. I've left the structural stuff to DH, but I know it's in the plan to build a new gable West to East. (So from this view you would be looking at a triangle - sorry for the not so technical talk!) :)

Peace, I don't have much time this a.m. (Saturday is our busy day, and I don't have any rendering software at home--to keep the job and home a bit separate.) but I have to say, that's a much busier roofline than your line drawing would lead me to suspect! And, it's surprising that the gables run N-S rather than E-W. That's why advice from an experienced contractor on the scene is so much better than an anonymous internet person!

But, having suggested that you think out of the box, my first suggestion to you would be to try to live within the current plan without any expansion. That's always the cheapest, and it's the best investment for resale since additions won't "pay you back" unless you plan on living there for 10 years or longer. The chimney and the stairs really eliminate much of the potential openness between the family room and the living room. But, if you eliminate that wall all the way to the chimney, and use the sunroom space, I can see turning your current kitchen into a very efficient galley style arrangement that will still be as open as possible to the living room. Keep the sink in the same location (always a LOT cheaper!) or scootch it down towards the family room a bit, and just run that run of cabinets all the way along that new wall between the patio and family room. THe range would go on that wall between the sink and a full sized glass door (single "french" door") between the kitchen and patio. Put a pantry where you show the fridge, and put the fridge on the new "mudroom" wall (and maybe laundry?). That is, make a wall extend east from the stairwell through the porch (right about where the post is in the rear shot, I'd imagine) to create the other wall of the "galley" where you create a "snack zone" with a microwave (and maybe a beverage sink?) for all of those snackers coming in from outside. The new small "mudroom" would give a place for coats and boots and flotsam to drop before it hit the kitchen.

You wouldn't have to change any of your footprint, and you'd get a very efficient kitchen that would be as open to the living room as structurally possible, with minimal structural issues to be solved. No, it doesn't give you an island, or seating in a kitchen, but it will literally probably be a minimum of 50K less of a project, which if you plan on moving in less than 5 years, might make these changes be more in the realm of being able to be recouped.

Like I said, Saturday is my busy day at the showroom, so I probably won't be able to check back in until Sunday to see your response to my radical rethinking. And, I'm probably making a few assumptions about you that may not be entirely correct, such as this being more of a first or second home for you (I noticed the young kids toys.) rather than a home for a mature family. If this is a home from which you will never move, then the dollar amount "invested" in remodeling is less of an issue, as you will get years of enjoyment out of creating a larger and more functional space to live in. You might post your current home's layout with a request for other input about creating the optimum kitchen from what exists and you'll get a LOT more input from some very talented forumistas with a more specific appeal to a layout challenge.

And, to address the dining issue--the gable for the dining room would lend itself to being extended several more feet without too much money put into it. That would give you a more substantial dedicated dining space and probably would be doable for under 5K.

"If this is a home from which you will never move, then the dollar amount "invested" in remodeling is less of an issue, as you will get years of enjoyment out of creating a larger and more functional space to live in."

Oak I really appreciate the out of the box thinking. And you are right to assume we are on a tight budget, so what I'm about to say may sound crazy, but stick with me. We've got a couple things going in our favor: our house is worth way more than we paid for it and we were able to cash out on a refinance, and still retain a lot of equity in case we ever need to sell. We live in an urban neighborhood just a stones throw from downtown where home prices have remained steady or risen, even in this economy. While most people would have sold it and applied the equity to moving to a bigger house we've decided to stay put. We couldn't afford a bigger house in this neighborhood. We would *gasp!* have to move to the suburbs! We love our neighborhood, our schools, the easy commute to work, etc. We are definitely in the minority for making a decision like this, but we feel over time we won't regret it. We can build a nice addition and still recoup 90% of what we put into it, plus get years of enjoyment. We're not big risk takers, so all things considered it's still a safe decision.

The other thing in our favor is that we're blessed with skilled family/friend connections that will help us do an old fashioned barn raising along the way. All this being said, we are still in the very early stages, so I'm going to give a lot of consideration to what you've said. The punching out the existing DR has crossed our minds, too. One thing I'm wondering about, when you say to expand into the sunroom - wouldn't we still have to demolish the patio roof, rip out the concrete, put in a crawl space, etc? Or were you thinking that we should just build on the existing concrete?

OK, baby needs a nap so I better sign off!

If your neighborhood is as strong as you say and continues to be so, you may recoup -- but it looks like you still have a 2 BR, 1 bath house. That starts looking more and more like a tear-down in that kind of neighborhood, and you aren't changing any or that. I suspect you can't really increase the value of that house that much without adding a bedroom and bathroom. You may sell for what you paid for it plus most of what you will put into it for the remodel, but not the cost of the remodel over what it would be worth without the remodel. When you talk about recouping, there is a difference between getting your costs out of a house and adding to the value. If you can get $50K (or whatever figure) more for your house now than you paid for it and you spend $40K more adding on, but the house is still only worth $50 more than you paid for it, you aren't really "recouping" when you sell. You cover your costs, but you lost your equity.

Looking at the house layout, have you considered closing in the entry way, maybe adding a small gable to give a covered doorway and adding that space to the living room. I'm thinking that if you reorient the living room and dining room, you may even relocate the kitchen, switching the DR nd kitchen. I haven't really played with it to see how it works, but I do agree that you have some less expensive options.

How long do you think a family of 5 can be happy in a 2 BR one bath house? As my kids have gotten older, I can't imagine the 4 of us with one bathroom on a daily basis. If you really love the area and want to stay there, I'd think about putting more money into a couple of bedrooms and a bathroom (maybe closing in that back porch) and less into a kitchen. Even if you have some equity cash out and can do a lot of this with friends and family, I think that might be a smarter money move -- create a house that can live on for a long time.

Just my thoughts -- you've got to make the choice that is right for you.

This is such a helpful conversation to have. Believe me, it's one we've had many tomes before, too. One thing to note is that we have 2 more bedrooms, a laundry room, family room, and a shower in the basement, plus a relatively easy option to plumb in a toilet and sink down there. Absolutely, we do need another bath. The GC we talked to already suggested that we also dig out a basement under the addition, in which case we would add another bedroom and bath. We'll see -- that's the thing we're worried about breaking our budget, although it's 1/3 of the cost of building a second story. Even if we don't dig all the way down we'll still have a ton more room for storage in the crawl space. We also have a 2 1/2 stall garage with a loft in it.

We've looked into bumping out the living room and adding a porch option, but it may not be allowed with the code for the rest of the houses on the block (something about how they all need to be on the same uniform plane).

The house is actually bigger than it seems, although not by American standards. I know that conventional wisdom says not to sink too much money into a house like this, but there are also unquantifiable things at work here, too, like staying put to raise your family and to make memories. To not have to pick up and move. To be rooted in this community. To raise our kids in a diverse neighborhood in a bilingual school. To make the conscious decision to live with fewer things. We may lose a some equity but then again the kitchen in its current setup would be a serious drawback for most buyers. That is, if we were planning on selling any time soon, which we're not. If we could easily rearrange the existing floorplan we would, but it's always robbing Peter to pay Paul. That's why the addition of a few hundred square feet as a kitchen-heart-of-the-home might be just what our family needs. But feel free to keep talking me out of this! :) For sure it will come down to what we can do with the money we have, so I'm all ears if there are more ideas.

we had been planning a major remodel/expansion of a home we used to use as a rental. It's half the size of my current home. The neighborhood isn't as "glamorous" but the yard is to die for. We changed our minds and decided to work within our exisiting footprint saving about 70-80K. Now... we are in a completely different stage of life as all kids are on their way to being grown and on their own. We are going to remove one bearing wall to open up the space and reconfigure some interior non load bearing walls. Since this is DIY, I expect the entire thing... new floors for the entire home, new kitchen everything, EVERYTHING in the home will be gutted and changed to cost about 30K. I encourage you to look at enclosing your front entry and back porch. Make your kitchen larger and add a bed and bath and family room out back where the porch is. Move your kitchen and DR into the current LR and DR area. You'd walk into a little landing and the DR would be in front of you and the kitchen to your right. If you didn't have enough room off the porch for BR/bath/LR you could put another bath backed onto the current bath where you show the kitchen and change the entrance into the exisiting bath. I wish I had better drawing capabilities but if you want to see what I mean, I'll try my best to do a rough rendering in powerpoint. Gosh I hope that made sense... I know what i mean in my head.

OK, if you have 2 more BRs then I agree with adding at least another bath -- maybe a half bath if you can. (we don't have basements here -- I don't expect BRs underground! LOL) That also means you can grow in this house more than a 2 BR house -- I just couldn't see you finishing the addition and being happy with 2 BRs.

If you can stay and grow in a house, then the differences in what you had in equity and what you put into an addition and what you could lose in the future if you don't update get more and more blurred. When you add in what you get in use and enjoyment over the years, then the pendulum swings more toward what makes sense for now -- as long as it's within reason and you can do it without putting yourself at risk. We did something similar, but for us it was taking the kitchen to the studs, replacing cabinets and moving some of the water lines, gas and power. We also upgraded appliances above what most of our neighbors have and took our cabinets all the way to the ceiling. But we don't plan to move anywhere any time in the near future and we did it pretty reasonably. By the time we do sell, some of those who only put in granite and new appliances may be having to put more money in their kitchens and ours will still be good -- who knows?

I don't 'know enough about construction to talk about the gabels and load bearing walls, but I will look at your drawing some more later and see if I can come up with a way to use the existing space. I agree -- if you post a challenge, you will get input from some great idea people. It seems the more eyes and pencil to look at something, the quicker you can knock around a lot of ideas and concerns and try options.

Oh, definitely put in the basement under the addition if you do an addition! You can't do it later. Add a nice scapewell egress window well to make it seem like you are above ground, and then you can have another bedroom (by code) there for your 3rd child, or an office, or a guest bedroom. Sounds like you are in this house to stay so adding that basement now will be appreciated in the future.