"Average" is utterly irrelevant.

At that age (I was once!) I would be very interested in learning about whether or not the equipment works and whether or not he even likes sex and whether or not he has a clue about how things work in that department. In my own experience I have been astonished to encounter the degrees of sexual ineptitude and indifference that I have. Sexual compatibility and/or competence is a factor I want to learn about at the earliest possible moment.

1st date is fine. 3rd date is fine. 100th date is fine. Depends on the people. Depends on YOU.

I would be concerned only that as he's never married, it's likely he never will, and do you want to get intimate with someone without a 'future'? Do you want to commit your emotions to the next level (I'll presume here...) if you might just end up feeling bad later on that things go nowhere.

I am from the old school - I figure if a gentleman hangs around you, as a friend, for quite awhile, without sex, then he's interested enough for a relationship. I take the 'wait-and-see', no-hurry route.

I have been without sex for four years (my husband had cancer and died 3 1/2 years ago), and am in no hurry to be anything other than friends with a gentleman.

I have a very dear friend, whom I met a year ago at church. He's never been married, either. He agrees with me that one should develop the foundation for a real relationship, not just 'go for it'.

If it never progresses beyond the 'dear friend' stage, that's ok, too. I'm not willing to have sex with someone a couple of times, then find out he's not right for me. I think any real relationship starts with getting to know the other person.

Ok - I get that sex is at any time is fine for those who are comfortable with it. I am interested in having sex with someone who wants me for what is in my head and heart than what is...well, you know where! I can offer someone more than a hormonal release.

For many/most??? women, sex is part of the package - the deepening feelings you have for someone, the mannerisms that are so appealing, the commonalities you have with each other, the things and feelings you have shared with each other...all that stuff. How can I possibly truly enjoy sex and give freely if I don't know things about him that make him special and that he accepts me for what I am (as far as we know each other by that time.) At least that is the way it is for me.

Ah, the journey we call life.

I'm going to stop right here and ask what you mean by "sex". Am I mistaken in assuming there has been some preliminary activity already or are you talking about zero-to-100 in one night?

Don't get the late forties thing without marriage either. Do you know how close he's come? Does he talk about his relationship history?

And, about the "prude" thing.....did he say that to you? Can you say about how that approach/refusal went? Kinda wondering how you came to ask the question.

Asolo, my dear, I was wondering the same as you - we need more information that just the general question the op asked.

Sure folks - First date was a lunch with a hug good-by, 2nd was dinner and ended with a kiss, and let me tell you it was not just a peck; third was dinner and a glass of wine at his place which not surprisingly got a bit more intimate, but no clothing removed or "adjusted". There hasn't been a 4th yet.

Of course my body wants it, but my head wants more of an emotional connection before the intimate thing goes too far. I came up with the "prude" thing! I should mention that I am more religious than he is.

I am leaning towards giving it a few more chances but am not confident about a long term relationship: so far, I don't feel that he is interested enough in me or my life, my likes etc. Regarding not being married before, he did say there had been a couple of special people, but hasn't elaborated. I think I should ask if I am interested in continuing. It is still a bit early.

Any other questions/thoughts?

My doctor once gave me some good advice when I was 35 and mentioned the dating game sure has change. Years ago it was out to dinner then he would make his move, now it seems to be be a good girl then he'll take you to dinner. The doctor said, "do only what you can live with tomorrow."

I always said no because I was so determined that no man was going to take advantage of me. I needed to know if he would date me without sex.

Exactly vala55. I want a man who will spend time with and money on me without expecting sex. So you all know I am fair, I will spend money (and time) on him too. I want him to want my head, my sense of humor, all those things that make us special before I share my special parts with him. I am not being a tease - there is much more to me than my you know whats. :)

Vala, your doctor was spot-on. It amazes me that people will give up their most prized possession without a second thought - a healthy body - just to be 'loved'.

People wouldn't give up their money with such ease, and you can always get more of that, but our bodies, of which we only get one, will be given away easily, over and over. It just confounds me!

I worked in a book store once and the manager picked up a trucker that was passing through town. She took him into her home, a total stranger with her two young boys in the house. She came strutting through the store the next morning bragging about having a boyfriend. When she call his number it was a bar. She put herself in danger and her boys. No sense at all.

I'm sorry. Sex is part of the whole. Learning about the other person's views of it are part of it. Learning of the other person's capabilities are part of it. Everybody's ideas about these things is different. Discovering the differences and similarities is part of the dance. And we learn along the way, don't we?

No one is going to dance with me until I know him well. LOL

yo, vala55.....that's rather the topic, isn't it? How "well" is well enough in your opinion? How many dates is enough, do you think? Is there a sequence of activities and times that should be adhered to?

Not giving you grief. Actually wondering, like OP, if there is some sort of consensus out there.

No set time. I want to know if a man wants me or sex and you can't tell that in just a few dates. My husband and I dated for 6 months before we had sex. We were married for 33 years before he died and we couldn't have sex for about the last 8 years. He was still loyal to me because he loved me. What if you date 12 men during your single years, have sex with all of them???? Not me. I have seen a lot of women make mistakes during my adult live and I swore I would not make the same. For one thing I would never live with a man without marriage, the woman is the loser in that scenario. I would not move into his house and be the one evicted when it was over. I would never marry someone and have separate bank accounts.

I'm sure you've heard or can easily imagine the male counterpoint to your story so no need to begin.

I suppose that's why it's so often termed "the eternal struggle."

OP wasn't talking about marriage/living together or any of that....just how soon is too soon.

Apparently what she's seeking isn't going to be coming from either of us.

I know she wasn't talking about that. My first reply was about being comfortable with what you are doing. I told what I was comfortable with. If she or you are comfortable with what you do that is what is important.

I am not sure what you meant by the first line of your reply to my reply.

The "counterpoint" I was referring to is the stereotype where man treats woman with respect and all appropriate decorum throughout courtship and then, when the moment for intimacy finally arrives, he learns she doesn't care for any of it, thinks its icky, and has no intention of changing anything. Literature throughout the ages, for example, is filled with descriptions of disastrous wedding nights following the most promising of courtships.

The typical societal scenario is to encourage the man not worry because "all of that will come naturally." Trouble is, many times it doesn't. Many times it isn't there to begin with and cannot/will not develop. That's not criticism, just observation and acknowledgement of the differences among people.

In any event, I don't these things should be hidden for too long. For myself, I want to know about these characteristics in the woman I'm interested in sometime during the normal course our acquaintance and development of the relationship. I want to know if she's interested and responsive sexually. I want to know if her ideas and desires are complimentary to my own in that regard. IMHO sexual compatibility is too basic to be assumed. Should be explored along the way. What that point would be depends on the people involved. No magic schedule.

asolo (and all) - I don't believe in a magic schedule, I think having sex before you know certain things about each other is premature - for me at least. Like the basics: likes & dislikes and such. Then some of the deeper things like their views on social issues, do they really like and get along with their parents and siblings. I want to know if this person is emotionally healthy, if they think it is ok to go around squishing bugs just because they feel like it, or dismissing the less fortunate on this earth. How would they define "less fortunate" and does it matter how they became less fortunate? Emotional Intelligence stuff.

I have been out of the dating scene for 20 years and had a dysfunctional marriage, so I have to figure out how to do the dating dance all over. I am sure I am not alone in my journey.

On the other hand, I don't want to get too old, dry and wrinkly before I meet someone who really trips my trigger - if you know what I mean. I have lots of life left in me!!!

At your ages, there is no "dating dance" anymore. There's just you and him. You get to decide for yourself and he gets to decide for himself. If he's a jerk, move on. However, if things are looking good and you're "running the rules" on tradition or "principal" he'll see what's going on quickly enough...and lose interest.

You seem to be wondering what the rules of the game are. I'm telling you there isn't any game any more. If I detected that in you, I'd be gone. If you think he's playing, you need to be gone, too. Really stupid at this age. Among mature people, there's no need and no time for this, IMHO. Have your discussions, by all means. Your spark will be in there or it won't.

I don't think I said I waited until marriage. It doesn't matter a great deal to me now because I wouldn't marry again or have sex. Also I went to visit my husband's family for Thanksgiving and wow it sure reminded me why I like being alone. LOL

"It doesn't matter a great deal to me now because I wouldn't marry again or have sex."

That's fine, although it does make you exceptional. All I'm suggesting is to make sure it's fine with whatever male friends you may have who may indicate that they're interested in more. Most will assume there will be more in due course. They will regard sexual responsiveness as part of the whole. Something to be expected and mutually enjoyable as the relationship develops. They will be disappointed to learn it's not part of the package....especially if they've spent significant time with you in search of a deepening relationship and only learn about your prohibitions at some late date.

Like women, men of maturity have typically been jerked around enough times to know they don't like it. If/when they sense it may be occurring again, they tend to not waste any more time with it. They've got all the friends they need. If they're spending significant time with you, they're looking for more.

Aslo, lets settle this once and for all. I have been married for 48 years of my adult life. I do not intend to marry, have sex or date, I've been there done that and I like my freedom. Sex is no longer in the picture even if I wanted it. If you read on the KT you will have seen the reason for this, it's called Lichen Sclerosis.

Had no idea I was approaching the "settling" of anything. Just sticking to the topic. Your rage is very much misplaced! Your post is nuts.

You are really off base there. I am not angry.

Activity in this thread is more than three months old, but I just read it (thought this site had been closed).

All I can say is, Asolo: What a refreshing breath of reality!

and

Daisy: It has been several months now since your question. Can you let us know what has happened since then?

From a guy's point of view.........we meet a nice woman and think, "She might be the one". The hormones may be racing and we want nothing more than to get into the bedroom. But there is another part of us is saying, "I hope she won't, because if she does I'm going think she's too loose and won't respect her".
Guess as I've gotten older I realize or accept that everyone has a history. On a 3rd or 4th date sex might be appropriate. I get discouraged when a woman seems to know too much in the bedroom. Then I began to think, "This woman has really been around." hard to respect that type of woman (or man). Don't know of any man or woman who wants a high-mileage used car. We know it's going to be used, we just hope to get one that hasn't been around the block too many times;-)

Hi coolvt: I really appreciate your candid remarks.

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