Basement/crawlspace water and yard drainage issues

9 years ago

I'm having basement dampness issues along with drainage issues in my yard and I'm having some trouble coming up with a concurring opinion on the solution. Under normal conditions I do not get any flowing water in my basement. I bought a moisture detector and some of the cinder blocks read up to 24% moisture. Efflorescence is on a good bit of the walls. Dehumidifier runs 24/7. Under heavy rain the side yard can not keep up with the water and my 3 window wells fill up with water which then comes through the glass block. This is the only time I've had flowing water in the basement. There is an internal french drain system around the entire perimeter of the basement. Last time it rained heavy the sump pit was filling up and the pump was pumping the water out just fine. Adjacent to the basement is a crawlspace. I do get standing water in there.

The yard on the side of the house has a slight grade towards the foundation plus the neighbors yard is somewhat higher than mine so water seems to pool in the yard.

I have had 3 companies come out to look at my issues and I have been given 3 different opinions thus far.

Quote 1
Basement waterproofing company says that my internal system is inferior and needs to be replaced. They want to jackhammer up the floor and install new piping deeper than the current depth running to their new better pump. Their solution to the window wells is to add a drain in each one, drill a hole through the foundation, and run a 1/2" line which will connect to the new drain pipe. $1,000 for the window drains plus $11,000 for the rest.

Quote 2
Local contractor says he would do an external french drain system. Dig an approx 7' deep trench 2' wide, put drains at the footer, tar/vapor barrier the foundation wall, backfill with gravel, replace window wells. $3,000.

Quote 3
Local landscape company suggests putting in a swale with a french drain. They told me that even though the yard slope isn't away from the house, the grade is too high as is it covering the vents at the bottom of my vinyl siding. They want to lower the grade below the siding then slope it away from my house into the swale. Then slope it back up in the other direction, essentially creating a "V" shape next to my house. Put a french drain pipe in the bottom of the V and then also install 3 surface drains to remove the standing water that collects. Quote to be determined.

The big problem that the exterior solutions have run into is what to do with the water. I have basically no real slope on my land so the water won't run away naturally. The landscaper is contacting the city to see if we can tap into the storm sewer but that will require cutting the sidewalk and digging up the road. The local contractor also wants to do that but was hoping there was a line already there that he could tap into since my gutters drain underground but we're not sure where to. The landscaper says he won't tap into the line if it is there as it will be too much water for one 4" pipe, which I would tend to agree with. Also, the french drains would be 7 feet in the ground while the gutter line is only a few feet under so I'm not sure how he would deal with the elevation change.

Any suggestions on what to do would be greatly appreciated. Here's links to 3 pictures:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B_w-FJNZu2AaMnVRLXZHUjlLR1U/edit?usp=sharing

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B_w-FJNZu2AaVmJsdFBETWRCdE0/edit?usp=sharing

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B_w-FJNZu2AaanBpTzlFdzVqTG8/edit?usp=sharing

Comments (7)

snoonyb
9 years ago
last modified: 9 years ago
#3 with some modification for drainage.
mkesow
Original Author
9 years ago
last modified: 9 years ago
What modification?
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I don't know what the laws are where you are, but where I live you are not allowed to channel water to someone else's property. It must exit your own property to the street. I agree with Yardvaark. It sounds like you need to research where the city planners designed the water to go and find out why its not going there. Its not hard to find that info. The city should be able to give you the development plan for your subdivision. Our city worked with us to help us solve the problem we had. I was told that just after the subdivision was built some neighbors further up the hill from us had similar issues to you. The city had to come in and build a storm drain through at least 2 of the lots to solve the issue for them. If you were not having these issues before your neighbor built his pool and garage then it sounds like you need to bring the issue up and demand it be solved. If it had happened to us and the city and homeowner weren't helpful in solving the problem we'd be suing both of them for not addressing the issue of drainage and recouping the cost of having to pump all that water out. In my son's old neighborhood the one house on the corner that was the lowest and kept getting flooded year after year was finally purchased by the city, torn down and a small park sits there now. But it took a long time for that to happen. I don't know for a fact, but I suspect law suits were involved. - In the link below I show how we solved our problem. But we really didn't have much issue with neighbors' lots draining into ours it was that our lot wasn't graded correctly in the first place and the water had no outlet to exit our property. Good Luck and please report back what happens. Here is a link that might be useful: Back yard drainage
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You build it up at the house. You start at the house, as well as at the neighbors fence (in the sketch), and you make the area high where you don't want water. Low area will get, and keep, water. High area will throw water to the low area. So build it up, in both 'area 1' on my sketch, and right next to the house. Note that the lower, water area is now thrown both toward the street, and out toward the middle of the lawn. Next project: build up area 2, on my sketch, and right next to area 1 on the house: the water is now thrown even MORE toward the middle of the lawn, as well as more toward the street. Once you've got that under control, relax. Have a beer. Grow some grass. Do more next year. Perhaps next month. But that's enough for now, so you don't get overwhelmed, and don't get broke.
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Fortunately, I'm surrounded by a lot of stormwater engineers at work. Looks like either way, I'm going to need to talk to the county about tying into the stormwater drain in my front yard. Here is a scanned image of the backyard with new ideas on how to curtail the yard. Each red circle is an drop inlet for water (also where the river entering my yard starts) and the little black circle are river rocks to prevent erosion and filter other peoples' yard debris from slowing down water flow. Red arrows are slopes. The green line is likely going to be an 8" smooth storm water pipe (corrugated, would likely be too turbulent for the amount of flow I have). The green line going down would connect into the county storm water drain in the front of my house.
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Basement stairwells usually have a seperate drain to the sump as do each run of tile from the perimeter of the building. There is filter cloth which is used to line drainage systems of the type you describe. It was not always used. If the cloth was not used, silt from the backfill and years of soaking rain will infiltrate the stone surrounding the tile and eventually the tile itself. Settlement will also cause dips in the pipe itself which will cause some water to "belly UP". Some of this silt will serve to level out those bellies and allow the water to drain. So a little silt at these points is ok. Rather than throw the most dire probelms at you and try to scare you with the more complex and worse case scenarios, I'll stick with the simplest and most affordable action. I think this would apply to your situation for a couple of reasons. One, the house is 24 years old and if it were a "really bad" problem, you would be complaining of flooding, not slow water drainage. Two, I've seen the problem you describe many times and the easy fix has always worked, with the soil composition you've described. If you had clay soil, it would have been much more complex. In my experience, I think the drain tile from the walk out stairway to the pump has a 24 year buildup of silt in it. There are a number of ways to clear it. It will be a little time consuming (a few hours) but it is a DYI job and will be is as good as new when you're finished. Remove the drain screen and put a garden hose without a nozzel into the cellar drain and let water run into it at a rate it will readily drain (you will increase rate as you clear the silt). At the sump end, insert another garden hose with a nozzel into the pipe where the water drains from. The nozzel should be the single cylinder type and locked into the heavy spray position. Start inserting the hose further into the pipe, the further the better, while running the water at full pressure. Silt will start washing out. As the flow increase, increase the water pressure to the outside hose. If the outside hose can easily be inserted further into the drain, do it. Keep working it this way until the watre runs clear. This method will keep you from clogging the pipe with silt. I don't recommend you do this but, once complete, you could put a ping pong ball in one end and a shop vac at the other and the ball would pop right through. Now how did I know that?
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snoonyb
9 years ago
last modified: 9 years ago
Generally, good lot drainage can be achieved with 1 to 2% fall, instead of the french drain buried 7' in the ground.

So, not knowing the topography and without some photos provided, speculation, would be just that.
SparklingWater
9 years ago
last modified: 9 years ago
mkesow, no expert here, just another homeowner working on water drainage correction. Proposal one is not preferable to exterior water drainage correction. That leaves #2 and #3.

Regarding #2: "Quote 2
Local contractor says he would do an external french drain system. Dig an approx 7' deep trench 2' wide, put drains at the footer, tar/vapor barrier the foundation wall, backfill with gravel, replace window wells. $3,000."

If you go this route, a couple of points: tar is just damp proofing-different from water proofing applications. Also it does not expand to fill new cracks, nor does tar which inevitably will occur. It's recommended now to use an expansile wall surface product, with elastomeric properties. Elastomeric membranes are a polymer modified asphalt, formulated to remain pliable. Also, vapor barrier 6 ml, even 2 ply are considered minimum. heavy gauge polyethylene dimpled drainage may be better, and bentonite membrane best.
mkesow
Original Author
9 years ago
last modified: 9 years ago
Thank you for the replies. I posted links to 3 pictures in my initial post. I am definitely leaning towards option 3 but I have still yet to hear anything from the city about the storm sewers. Plus today I called the landscaper and he says they are no longer interested in my project. So I now have another company coming out Wednesday to look at it.
snoonyb
9 years ago
last modified: 9 years ago
I would , 1st, find out the elevations of the vents and the adjacent driveway. relative to the public walkway.

Next, grade the side yard to slope away from the house a min. of 3' wide and then slope back up to the neighbors driveway.

This creates a sort of "V" ditch, which also needs to slope to the street.

What strikes me as odd, is the description of the french drain, which sounds more in the realm of a percolation pit.

Which may be the solution, combined with the "V" ditch.
kirkhall
9 years ago
last modified: 9 years ago
When your sump pump runs now, where does it pump it to?

We had a similar issue and solved it with #2 above (but we didn't have grading issue of our lot--just our neighbor's). AND, importantly, the drain system that was put in is gravity drain to the storm sewer.

In our case, they didn't have to dig up the sidewalk. They were able to dig or otherwise go under it, and connect up with an existing street drain grate well.

Best of luck! I think #2 and #3 and/or a combination of the 2 will be your best option. But, first, you need to figure out where to send the water.

Basement/crawlspace water and yard drainage issues

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Basement/crawlspace water and yard drainage issues

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