This link may get you started. http://www.cyberhymnal.org/htm/b/h/bhymnotr.htm
I am glad we have leaders who still take a stand for the Truth and uphold it. Praise God....

Here is a link that might be useful: http://www.cyberhymnal.org/htm/b/h/bhymnotr.htm

Just as the title implies, it is a hymn. We sing it in church and I also think it is a beautiful song. Do I think it should be sung in school? No. Do I think it should be pushed on people who do not believe in the Triune God? No. But all the same it is a beautiful song and I enjoy hearing it and singing it.

What exactly are you getting at? Or are you just trying to cause trouble?

I am expressing my sincere belief that we need to teach spiritual matters in school because many homes are not giving their children what they need. I believe you can do that on a historical manner and in many ways. We are a nation still "under God".
God has blessed this nation because I believe we have had many who stood firm in their belief in God and were not afraid to express their beliefs.
This is one example of what I am saying.
I am not advocating pushing a religion on anyone but I belief they should be knowledgeable so they can choose to serve God intead of Satan.
There are two forces good and evil. Love or hate. I am trying to get you to see the difference and choose the good.

AKBoy,
I have to disagree with you here. Yes, we are doing a poor job of teaching spiritual (moral?) matters in the home these days. But should the school system (be it public or private) take over this teaching? Nooooooooooooooooooooo.

Even if we did start teaching it in schools, if it is not upheld in the home, nothing is gained.

And this is something that should be done in the family. I believe in giving children direction and showing them the paths we have taken. Children without guidance end up boats without rudders, when real life takes over. Even if they choose a different path than their parents when they grow up, at least the guidance given during their upbringing will give them the tools they need to make the right choices for themselves.

Otherwise, you'll end up with a lot more heaven's gate cult leaders, more than willing to be the rudders the parents were not, to guide the young adults into oblivion.

I just know the schools were able to do a better job at this in the l950-1980's than they are allowed to today because many of the freedoms have been removed from the school. I know many disagree with me on this but that is okay. When you lower the standards in society you are only going to ever reach that level except to rise above it on an individual basis.
I am with Judge Moore from Alabama all the way. We just need more like him ....

I am a dedicated Christian. I take pride in that. But many people came to this country for Freedom of Religion. They came here because they could openly practice their religion of choice without being persicuted for it. If we push our Christian songs on their children in school aren't we pushing our religious beliefs on their children and violating their rights?

I agree that moralality is a problem in our schools. Many children lack respect and just good old fasioned manners. I know because I have taught in school systems. But I don't think you teach manners and moral judgement by simpley pushing your religion on someone else like you have done here. You can speak much more through your actions than words. If kids see you respecting them, using only respectful words toward them, and demenstrating a morally right aditude toward all, they will honor that. You can do all of this without saying "in the name of Christ", even if your actions show a Christian attitude.

And I think that you are taking for granted that Christians are the only people with morals. I think that is wrong. There are many people who do not believe in Christ who are still morally rightous people who respect others and treat them with kindness and dignity.

I am a little confused AKboy. If your children are grown then why do you spend so much time on a forum ment for people with children in the school systems who are dealing with issues of educating their children? Didn't you already do that?

MEMA_WI,
Sorry you are taking anything personal. I will agree with you actions speak louder than words. It seems though Christianity is what is being pushed around, not on anyone, but being shoved out. What is wrong with teaching about all religions and of people of different faiths? America was founded on Christian principles. How can you deny that? Why not continue to uphold them for that reason if not for the real reason and that being for personal salvation of the soul and to the glory of God.
I am a concern Christian citizen of America and this is an open forum not just for parents with school age children. I happen to have children teaching and I have grandchildren.
Have a good day in the Lord.

Most of the founding fathers were deists, not christians. So I don't really see how we were founded on christian principles. Plus the salvery and genocide things...

This may be of benefit to you. Please read.

Here is a link that might be useful: http://www.christianparents.com/lrconst.htm#top1

I just know the schools were able to do a better job at this in the l950-1980's than they are allowed to today because many of the freedoms have been removed from the school. I know many disagree with me on this but that is okay. When you lower the standards in society you are only going to ever reach that level except to rise above it on an individual basis.

The schools were able to do a better job in the years you specified because they wern't expected to RAISE children. It was the parents job to send their children to school ready to learn. In the mid 1970's women's lib hit, moms went to work in droves & a whole lot of "Mom's job" fell onto the schools. A lot of people are rethinking this mind set & the highest occupational category for women with bachelor's degrees is "homemaker."

I think it would probably cause great troubles to try to teach "about all religions and of people of different faiths" within the school system. Let us say we are going to teach about the top 10 religions of either the world or the country. And this will take place during social studies class.

The first problem you will run into is that Christianity will only take 10% of the class time towards this, while 90% of the class time will be on other religions. You might be able to give Christianity 20% if you compare/contrast Catholic and Protestant traditions. This would likely anger quite a lot of people.

The second problem is to decide what thing in social studies do you take out of the curriculum so that you can now insert world faiths? If you are going to add in something, you have to take something out. Granted, you could take time out of science so that you could increase your time in social studies, but this is still a problem.

The problem centers in the home and the problem is solved in the home. Like I have said before and I will say it again, our churches, schools and communities are no better than the individuals who make them up. There are all kinds in most communities, just more of one kind than the other which makes for better or worse areas.
I am thankful for the area which I live, because we do not have the problems as some do. We are able to work on the the problems we do have as a group. We have an excellent school system. Our school board is made up of God fearing, Bible believing, honest, working men and women. We have excellent administrators, dedicated, well trained, and experienced teachers. I would rate our school system as one of the best in the nation and in the world. Over the years some of the best citizens of the United States have gotten their foundations established at our school and in this area.
We as a community take pride in our community, county, state, and country. We had an GREAT turn out for our own famous singer and entertainer at the celebration of our Independence. We are thankful for our country and for those who stand above the crowd who have given so much for the freedoms we still enjoy and for those who are still in the trenches fighting to reclaim those we have seemed to let slide by the wayside.
Keep up the faith and continue the fight for what is Right. I am thankful for the faithful who still believe in God and uphold and practice His teachings. In Him you will find Victory and Refuge.

Duckie,
Here are some examples how some have learned and I learned from them. Thanks...

Here is a link that might be useful: http://www.montana.edu/webquest/socialstudies/grades6to12/ueland/

I enjoyed reading this I hope you do. Another one who stood above the crowd and stood firm in her belief... A Founding Mother.....

Here is a link that might be useful: http://cpcug.org/user/billb/hutch.html#top

Garden boy:

I have been on vaction so I haven't been active lately. As you know I am Jewish. I really resent being constantly told that Christianity should be taught in schools, etc. People should be Christian so that they can be moral, etc. Do you honestly believe that you MUST be Christian to have an idea of what is right and wrong (which is what morality is). Morality is NOT religion and being religious does NOT make you a moral person.

You ask "What is wrong with teaching about all religions and of people of different faiths?"

NOTHING. But teaching ABOUT religion is NOT the same as teaching religion. When I went to Hebrew school as a child (teen years) we visited Protestant and Catholic churches and were taught ABOUT the beliefs of others. But we were NOT taught that those beliefs were the only true way to live. We respected the beliefs of others and in return we earned their respect. It seems that somewhere between then (1980 or so) and now the spirit of respect between many Christians and other religions has been replaced by a "my way or the highway" mentality and that is a great shame. It puts a distance between people that does not need to be there.

I loved learning ABOUT other religions and I believe the priests and ministers and rabbis involved loved talking to the young people as well. But while teaching ABOUT religion in classrooms is an interesting proposition teaching religion in classrooms should be absolutely taboo in public schools.

Our country was NOT founded on Christian principles. It was founded as a place where ALL PEOPLE COULD WORSHIP IN THE WAY THEY CHOOSE (or not), WITHOUT GOVERNMENTAL INTERFERENCE. Public schools are run by the government. Therefore, the public schools need to protect the rights of ALL CHILDREN to be free of religion in their classrooms. Athiests, Jews, Moslems, Christians, EVERYONE.

Mommabear

Mommabear,
What are your views on "The Battle Hymn of the Republic"? Or do you want to share them here?

The further we get from history maybe the closer we become the way it was. We still have hate, envy, malice, and strife and on the other hand we still have love, kindness, joy, peace, brotherhood and cooperation. We just have to choose which we want and go for it. I choose the democratic way. (but the majority is not always right.)

I do no think this song belongs in school unless it is presented as part of a history lesson. The song is historically significant and should be presented in the correct context in school. Again, teaching ABOUT the song and its history is fine. But teaching the song as religion is a different story. It is not appropriate in school. How you present religious material in school is extremely important.

The majority is NOT always right and our great country allows even the least popluar minority to be free of religious interference in school. That means freedom FROM the religion of the majority.

Mommabear

That's why the good ol' USA was established as a Republic, not a Democracy. Fine line of distinction, but Republic does not actually mean 'majority rules', per se, which is a good thing, and I'm glad our forefathers were aware of the distinction.

REPUBLIC:
1 a (1) : a government having a chief of state who is not a monarch and who in modern times is usually a president (2) : a political unit (as a nation) having such a form of government b (1) : a government in which supreme power resides in a body of citizens entitled to vote and is exercised by elected officers and representatives responsible to them and governing according to law (2) : a political unit (as a nation) having such a form of government c : a usually specified republican government of a political unit
2 : a body of persons freely engaged in a specified activity
3 : a constituent political and territorial unit of the former nations of Czechoslovakia, the U.S.S.R., or Yugoslavia

DEMOCRACY:
1 a : government by the people; especially : rule of the majority b : a government in which the supreme power is vested in the people and exercised by them directly or indirectly through a system of representation usually involving periodically held free elections
2 : a political unit that has a democratic government
3 capitalized : the principles and policies of the Democratic party in the U.S.
4 : the common people especially when constituting the source of political authority
5 : the absence of hereditary or arbitrary class distinctions or privileges

I would like to be fair to the authors and remind you of this beautiful song and what it means to me. I had the opportunity to sing it when I was in public school.. I still have the opportunity to sing along now in church. It is part of America's rich heritage.
We never thought of imposing this on anyone as a religion. We just enjoyed studying about our God and country.
The following link may be of benefit.

Here is a link that might be useful: http://www.gigglecam.com/livejournal/attack/website/americathebeautiful.html

"Our school board is made up of God fearing, Bible believing, honest, working men and women."

Arkansasgardenboy, I live in Queens, NY--if they were to teach religion in MY school district, the religion they would teach would be HINDUISM--a pagan belief that is anathema to me. A few subway stops over, they'd teach Judaism. Go a few blocks the other direction, and they'd preach Islam.

Therefore I do not want ANYWHERE in my nation for there to be a precedent that will allow these other beliefs to influence the teachings in my child's classroom.

I assume they feel the same way. As they should.

You really live in a sheltered area in terms of cultural exposure and especially exposure to the other faiths.

TREKaren, the U.S. is a republic AND a democracy (or don't you believe we have "periodic free elections"?) It is normally referred to as a democratic republic.

Talley Sue,
Could be the reason we are still referred to living on the buckle of the Bible belt. No pun intended......Could be the reason we still are able to pray at public events. Doesn't Congress still have prayer before their sessions?

God is going to judge all nations. Here is link you will find the first prayer in congress.

Here is a link that might be useful: http://www.geocities.com/CapitolHill/6627/x1conpryr.html

Check it out. We still have hope in America through the grace of God.

Here is a link that might be useful: http;//www.gohotsprings.com/cheslow

I'm not sure I understand why our children couldn't be taught about ALL religions in classrooms, as part of history. I don't think that public schools address AT ALL the Creation theory, they focus on the Evolution theory, and young children are probably pretty confused. My son and I were talking about God, and Adam and Eve, and his question to me was, "If Adam and Eve were the first people on earth, then when were the dinosaurs here??" I guess it falls into personal beliefs, but I think that BASIC religion education could definately be included in schools without a problem IF PARENTS WERE WILLING TO COORPORATE and realize that their children could benefit from understanding or at least being introduced to other forms of worship. How do we explain what's happened in the middle east to our kids? Wasn't their war all about religion??? How can we expect kids to understand that on a very basic level if they can't at least learn that there are different religions? I think that I am rambling because I am up too late!!:)

That is a song for religous war, hardly fit for young school children. There is no "glory" in war, just death and suffering borne mostly by women and children.

Gardenboy is simply pumping his version of religion under the guise of school issues.

Look what happened to the Catholics when they mixed church and school... pedophile heaven!

If you are going to sing about the "glory" of war then perhaps you should also sing about the glory of Death and the glory of Hell which follows war (according to the Bible).

just sick...

michael

Hi Mike,
I believe we should be caring the gospel into all parts of the world, if people think that is wrong, they are mistaken.
I am impressed by the Christian children who take a stand and uphold Christ in their lives. They have a great impact in helping other children and adults.
Why do we have so many problems in this world? Why can't we be a more friendly and gentlier people. Could it not be if we were more Christ-like?
Mike, I have read your personal page. You give reference to God there. I believe you mention the Bible being your favorite book.
Note how Jesus spent time with the children. Shouldn't children spend time with Jesus? Praying? Studying His Word? Telling others about Him? Not only the children but all of us? At home and away from home?
Many times we just think of the public school on this forum. I believe there are many represented in private schools as well and perhaps home schooling, too.
If we can not practice our belief, what kind of believer are we? If we are a true believer, I believe it will be evident and we will be telling and showing others the Truth... May God Bless and may we be a blessing to others and to God.
I am sincere, Mike; and I consider you as my friend.
I have learned something in studying the background of these songs. What do you think of the Psalms in the Bible?
Aren't they wonderful?
Have a good day...

I'm with michael. War is not glorious. War is disgusting. Especially holy wars. The song has a nice tune. But the subject is repugnant.

I don't think that most christians would really like to see objective scholarly attention being given to religion in schools, because the unbelievable hypocrisy of the christian church throughout history would have to be pointed out, and it couldn't really be explained away. A lot of children would come home asking their parents questions that their parents couldn't answer - or wouldn't want to.

As Christians, we are to wear the whole armor of God. We are in a battle. It is against satan. The victory is the Lord's.

Here is a link that might be useful: http://www.crossroad.to/text/articles/armorofgod.html#anchor467195

LOL!

You think God is on your side? So did those @holes that flew the planes into the buildings.

michael

I know bunnyman.

flowergirldeb, the war in the middle east is about TERRITORY--the israelis got it, and the palestinians want it back. It is about control--the israelis have it, and the palestinians don't. It is about nationhood--the israelis have it, and the palestinians don't.

Sure, religion flavors it and fuels it. but Yassar Arafat is Catholic, not Muslim. It's ain't about religion, not really.

I think all of this is silly. Arguing over "If God should be taught in school". MEMA WI where did you get the idea AKBOY was even speaking of having this song sung in schools? That is NOT what he wrote. He just put... "To continue this history lesson, I thought it would be interesting to express your views on this song. I like this song and to me it has a great spiritual meaning. How are you connected to it? Are you? I love to try singing along and love to hear it sung."....He mentions NOTHING of public schools. We ALL know how he is...he loves to talk of God and Jesus. That is OK! I myself love Jesus,and am a Christian. No, I do not think that one song should be in schools. But, in reference to the pledge "under God" in public schools. Well, that should be allowed....why? you may ask...because...everybody,no matter what religion you are...your god is your god. Just because the pledge reads "under God" does NOT mean just Christianity. It means everybody's God. No matter what religion you are. Is YOUR GOD not YOUR GOD? Everyone is so quick to JUMP on AKBOY! How about everyone stop JUMPING on him for being who he is and preaching what he believes! Do you have that much faith in your religion to jump on the bandwagon and PRAISE your GOD on this website? If you do...then lets see it!! I, for one have not seen it yet! Now...go ahead...bring it on....cause I know someones got something to say. How about giving AKBOY just a bit of credit?? huh?

Gardenboy, I personally like the song; the lyrics "as He died to make men holy let us live to make men free" are moving to me. After lurking on this thread since your original posting, I finally went to the first link you provided to the cyberhymnal. I just wanted to thank you for posting it because it's a great website.

The war in the Middle East is based on God's covenant with Abraham. The Jews will eventually get the land that was promised them. It will be after Christ returns. So the unrest in that area, is due to religion to some degree. (IMHO)

I thought that religion was a much bigger part than territory, but of course I could be mistaken!:) Sevenangels....CHILL, take it easy!:) Gardenboy keeps this forum "alive" and brings up some important, interesting, and educational issues. If the posts were all friendly and agreeable then I for one wouldn't be stopping in!:) Besides, I have learned PLENTY from being here, and from Gardenboy, if you look back at posts from March, April, 02, you can see that I jumped at him constantly!! BUT, I also LEARNED a ton!!
I agree with you about the "under God" in the Pledge. Maybe I am a goof, but I always assummed that people sort-of took it that way anyway. Patriotism and Religion are personal issues, but they are both present in everyday life. I think that our children could indeed recieve a BASIC religious education in school with no harm. It could only help!!:)

So if it is everyone's god, why can't we call him another word? Isn't it everyone's Brahman? Or does the word Brahman imply "Hindu?" And if the word brahman implies hindu to christains, isn't it reasonable to assume that the word "God" implies "Christian" to hindus? It is easy to be easygoing when you are a member of the majority.

Plus, some people don't believe in just one god. And they have every right to believe in as many gods as they want, and not have the government tell their children that they are wrong. I won't even mention those who don't believe in any gods, since apparently they are not considered worthy of equal rights, for some reason that I can't fathom.

You can't govern people's hearts, no country has ever succeeded in doing so, and the US is not the least of the countries that have tried.

Yeah...true. Didn't think that way. Religion and politics shouldn't mix in conversation...TOO COMPLICATED!!:):)

Flowergirl:

What would be the BASIC religious education you support? Would it be Christian? Jewish? Moslem? Hindu?

Mommabear

We all have one Creator.....My Bible refers to Him as the Father, the Son and The Holy Spirit.

Here is a link that might be useful: http://home.earthlink.net/~judanny/heritage.htm