Have question about materials/finishes with our reno

15 years ago

Hi all,

DH and I are in the planning stages of a house reno which will include: combining an existing family room/kitchen into one area (this would involve knocking down part of what used to be en exterior wall, since the family room was part of a two-story addition); relocating downstairs powder room; adding master bath upstairs; renovating one of existing bathrooms upstairs.

We are on a strict budget hovering around $150 and are trying to get a firmer handle on costs. We are interviewing both architects who would create just the designs, as well as design/build firms. No matter which of the routes we choose, it has become clearer to us that we would need to have a very good (if not exact) idea of exactly what finishes we would like.

I am planning to shop around now for: cabinetry, flooring, bathtubs, sinks, faucets, and windows. More than one contractor we've spoken to has sworn up and down that the quality of certain items (ex. Pella windows, Kohler fixtures) that a regular Joe can buy from Home Depot/Lowes doesn't match the quality that a GC would be able to get from a supply warehouse where you have to be a GC to shop. I am wondering if this is true or not so that I can compare apples to apples. I could always troll the internet for deals on materials, but I like to use the big box stores as a starting point.

Also, what do you guys think about having some sort of contract where we only have to worry about labor, and handling all of the materials ourselves? That way there will be no problems with change orders of materials, allowances, etc. that I keep hearing about on this board and elsewhere.

TIA

Comments (4)

joed
15 years ago
You won't get very far for $150. I presume you meant $150K.
The products for HD etc are not the same model numbers. Check it out. The model number will have an additional letter or some thing to identify as an HD version. If you check them out, they are similar but not the same. I believe they are less quality. Might have some of the parts made of plastic instead of metal among other things.

From the MOEN site.
Do all Moen products consist of one standard of quality regardless of whether the distributor is a retail or wholesale supplier?
Moen's production line does not differentiate between wholesale and retail models. There is only one grade of brass, only one grade of cartridge and only one grade of warranty coverage - the best. While the numbering system for Moen's wholesale distributors and retail distributors may vary and subtle installation and trim differences may exist (these may include, but are not limited too, packaging, threaded or slip-fit style tub spouts and metallic or non-metallic drain assemblies). The quality and limited lifetime warranty against leaks, drips, materials, and workmanship remain the same for all of our products.

Note the part about metallic or non-metallic drain assemblies.
User
15 years ago
Lots of---in fact, most contractors make a certain profit for the materials they use---part is the delivery/handling, part is any warranty problems, and part is being familiar with the materials.

Finding a contractor who will work for labor only will be interesting. However, in view of the current economic situation, you should have much less of a problem.

You will need to have almost everything on hand before the construction starts, since some materials need different construction procedures.

You will need to know down to an inch of what the total lengths/dimensions for the cabinets/tubs/showers are, for instance, before the wall construction starts, plus any construction details like thickness of drywall, any additional wall treatment thicknesses, placement of electrical and plumbing features, and whether the new floor will be installed before or after the cabinets.

Oh, and you can shop/buy from many of the same places the contractors do as a rule.
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weedyacres
15 years ago
If you take on the materials purchase yourself, I'd stick to the finishing materials, not the stuff like lumber, nails, and drywall. The finishes is where most of the variation in $$ is anyway, and where you can save money by shopping around. You won't save much (any?) by buying the lumber, and your GC probably would be more hesitant to rely on you to get everything there at the right time to avoid holding up the workers.

And do make sure you've got everything there before it's time to put it in. With windows, we've got a place here that makes custom (without the custom upcharge) in 7 days, so the framers can frame the windows and then provide the exact dimensions to the company for fabrication. Or you have the windows on-site before they start framing so they make the frame opening exactly the right size needed.
mightyanvil
15 years ago
There is a great danger in trying to approach home design and construction in the same terms as your previous experience as a consumer.

You can't buy materials for the same price as a contractor and if you insist on supplying all finishes the contractors will probably raise their installation prices to cover the lost markup and the additional trouble of dealing with your inevitable delays and mistakes. Also, using an architect just for the basic design drawings is a poor choice since he/she is likely to be the only available independent guide through the pitfalls of the project. After all, that is his/her profession.

The only certain way to save money on a house is to make it more efficient and eliminate unnecessary features. Unless you are highly experienced in these matters I suggest you provide the owner information and let the pros design and build the house with you observing closely.

It is interesting that you mention Pella and Kohler. Those are the only two manufacturers that I tell my clients to avoid. I would suggest that any product heavily advertised to the public and sold by Home Depot, Lowes, etc. should be used with extreme caution regardless of the model numbers. The model numbers might or might not matter but the factory quality control does and there are other code numbers that denote a different factory that might serve only the big retail stores. Manufacturers believe the public buys because of advertising and appearance rather than proven quality and I agree. If you buy a toilet from Home Depot put it on a hard flat surface to see if it was miscast and look at the flapper to see if it is malformed or dmaged. I would say you have a 50% chance of getting a good one from Kohler and a 90% chance that the cheap plastic flow valve will fail in the first year (Kohler uses FluidMaster valves which jam so often that there are instruction on their website for clearing them - have someone ready to shut off the water in case you drop the cup). The water you pay for from stuck valves can quickly exceed the cost of a better grade of toilet - this is not the place to save a hundred bucks if you are on town water.

Obviously, it doesn't matter how good a product looks or how low the price, if it doesn't work properly it becomes a liability. And if you provided it, you will be removing it and taking it back for replacement or repair. Being able to call the contractor about bad fixtures or window leaks is worth something unless you are good at diagnosing and fixing such things and have the time to do it.

I usually don't make pitches for architectural services because it inflames some die hard DIY'ers but I have rarely designed a house where I didn't reduce the owner's cost by more than my fee (sometimes just in the bidding/negotiating phase) and the avoidance of pain and family strife comes for free.

Good luck with your project.

Have question about materials/finishes with our reno

Comments (4)

joed

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weedyacres

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