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newlynutmeg

Kitchen layout advice, please

newlynutmeg
12 years ago

Hiya! I am a long-time lurker and first-time poster. I am really excited to get started making an efficient, fully functional kitchen. DH and I cook nearly all our meals, frequently together. We would like to enjoy being there together.

Here is the current kitchen:

Ventilation is a priority for us, as we sear meat, cook fish frequently, stir-fry and prepare South Asian food, and the current OTR microwave hood is all but useless. We would like more burners. I enjoy having two ovens, but I do not enjoy sitting on the floor to check on my pies in the island oven, especially since I am then blocking access to the sink or the dishwasher. I would far prefer to have a second sink in the island and to find a space for a wall oven (or two). There is nowhere in this kitchen to store a broom or to hang an apron. The pantry cabinet is rollout drawers behind four "attached stile" cabinet doors. It is really annoying.

The kitchen sits between the dining room and family room. It is over a basement, so plumbing and gas lines can be adjusted. (I do not think the gas will need to be.) I do bake and have an inadequate baking center at present. DH is a tea drinker and needs a dedicated space for his teas and supplies. DH uses the microwave daily; I use it less often. We had a convection/microwave combo in a former kitchen and I would like another one.

I want induction; DH wants gas. I think we will try to have both. (Just between you and me, if it comes right down to it, I will prevail. He has a gas grill with burners right outside the door. I am the one who cleans the stove, and I am sick of cleaning burner rings and grids, so I will have my induction cooking. He is a lovely man and he wants me to be happy.)

The boss of the house, the cat, needs his own space for his food dish and electric fountain. He has plenty of cans and bags and boxes of cat stuff that need to be stored near his feeding area.

We have holiday meals and dinner parties in the dining room, but when it is the two of us or just family, we usually eat in the kitchen. Currently there is a table and chairs and no one eats at the island, but we are not wedded to that arrangement. In fact, I would love a stool in the kitchen. I do not prep sitting down, but there are times I would rather sit in the kitchen while waiting for some timer or other. Need cookbook shelves, too!

It is a large kitchen. In fact, the span between the island and the perimeter counters is too wide. If I need something from the island, I cannot just turn and grab it. I have to take a step over to get it. I am guessing the island will grow. It is a little awkward because of the bend in the dishwasher/sink wall. Maybe two islands?

We have talked about putting wall ovens where the fridge is now and moving the fridge across the entry hall doorway to replace that bank of cabinets. The countertop that is there now gathers a lot of junk, and no kitchen work is carried out there. Or maybe the pantry would be better there? A sink near the cooktop or range would be great, but should it be the island one or the perimeter one? A sink at the other end of the island might make that clutter-zone counter space a fine baking area. Maybe. I need your help! All ideas are welcome.

Cathy

Comments (23)

  • newlynutmeg
    Original Author
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I'm painfully shy and awkward, but I will be brave and bump this once.

  • palimpsest
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    How would you feel about a peninsula?

    What is the cabinetry next to the garage?

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  • ControlfreakECS
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Personally, I would not move your fridge to the location discussed. That is actually where my fridge is located in my current kitchen, and was one of the major things that got the ball rolling for us to remodel - it was just too inconvenient to go over there around the island to get to it. We are moving the fridge more to within the kitchen space.

    However, I would consider drawing out what you have had in your mind, and post it. That usually helps give people an idea of the direction you are heading so that they can give you guidance, rather than just start from scratch.

  • davidro1
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    you need a 2nd faucet.

  • lavender_lass
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    First, I would put your baking area, where those little cabinets are, by the garage. A combination wall oven/microwave (maybe with convection) would work very well there, with some nice counter space. If you make that area a little deeper, you should have space for bookshelves (cookbooks) on both sides of the entry to the garage.

    A nice induction range, with a new vent/hood, would be a big improvement...and I would lose the oven in the island...maybe put a prep sink with instant hot water...unless DH prefers using the tea kettle for his tea. The island might make a nice place for tea supplies and the last cabinet (closest to the table) might work for 'the boss' depending on where he likes to be fed :)

    I like the fridge as is, but the pantry sounds very awkward. I don't know if there's room for a broom closet here, but even redoing the pantry set up (doors, with pull out shelves, maybe) would be a big improvement. Would there be room for a broom closet, in the hall/closet area by the garage?

    It would be nice to have a few stools at the island and aprons could be hung in the broom closet, or on a hook for display, depending on your style.

  • herbflavor
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Try the frig to the left of the current range, move the range down that wall a bit:take the microwave away[too bulky] Next-try the oven against the wall next to the pantry where the frig was. Then-back to the island-turn it so a longer side is parallel with frig and range wall.Somewhere in the island,place the microwave in..or microwave back on the pantry wall.The reason for this:a visual focus coming in from fam rm will be created by reposition of island..and while at the frig and stove,you get a longer counter run behind you. This is zone creation, which would be wise I think in such a lg space.

  • blfenton
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Do you have about 4' between your sink and island now, and about 3' between range and island? Maybe you could confirm?
    I'm wondering about making a rectangular island. Bring it 6" closer to your main sink, maybe 3' wide and then back 5'.
    Trying to make it long towards the table is going to be awkward with that jog.

    At the end of the cabinet run by the sliding glass doors - what is there? Can something be put there and if so how much space is there?

    If you were then to put a second sink in the island and that was to become your prep area, you could leave the fridge where it is as it would effectively become closer to your prep area.

    Put your pantry on the other side of the entry hall doorway
    with a broom closet and maybe a small desk area with cookbooks and a place to write out grocery list etc. (3' pantry, 8" pullout broom closet, 18" desk area)

    Where your fridge currently is, leave it and add your wallovens/microwave set up and maybe a tea/drink area for your husband. Put the drink area by the doorway. (Don't want ovens opening into the doorway. -mmm not sure this will work but it's a starting point.)
    Can you post a photo of the jog in the wall and the island?

    Now, what I think you need to do is go over what you want in the kitchen and how you see it functioning, incorporate any ideas that you like that have been suggested and repost a floor plan of what you envision. The layout gurus love to work on this stuff, but as suggested before, they need a feel for what you see in the space.

  • newlynutmeg
    Original Author
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Thank you for your replies. I thought I had posted a reply earlier; my apologies if two of them appear.

    Yes, Palimpsest, I am open to a peninsula. I am open to anything. The cabinets next to the garage are upper and lower cabinets, the uppers with glass fronts. I keep small appliances and infrequently used pans in the lowers. In the drawers I store place mats and napkins, phone books and coupons (that I never remember to use)and some "overflow" baking utensils and pans. In the uppers are the cookbooks and stemware. Oh, and some liquor!

    Controlfreakecs, I suspected that might be an awkward position for the refrigerator, so thank you for your confirmation.

    Davidrol, yes, I agree we need another sink/faucet. I am not sure just where it will be best located.

    Lavender_lass, the cabinets are full sized; we aren't very skilled with the kitchen drawing and that's just how they turned out. Ah, I like the idea of ovens at that end of the kitchen. I think hub would love instant hot, and I'll check with him.

    There is a coat closet in the garage entry hall. It's quite shallow and awkward to use for cleaning implements and coats too. I don't know how the large family here before us coped.

    herbflavor, I don't quite understand. I don't think there is room for the fridge on the range wall.

    Back to the drawing board,

    Cathy

  • davidro1
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    "Ventilation is a priority for us" your first words, should be your starting point, n my view, newlynutmeg, because you have to start somewhere and so you may as well start there. Besides, you are the first person to post that as an opening paragraph.

    Another thing unusual about your post is this: "There is nowhere in this kitchen to store a broom or to hang an apron". You are the only person who ever wrote it out instead of waiting for someone to point it out. I think you are very practical and you should use practicality as your guiding principle for the first few weeks of simulation.

    Hth

  • herbflavor
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    the range wall is 99 inches: stovetops are 30 or 36...if you get a 36 in frig, you have 33 inches left and the area beyond that over to the sink-you can space the appliances how you wish: the idea involed a rotation of the island as well-for even more counter.This gives you a zone with stovetop, frig and more counter closer together.Perhaps you don't care for it:okay.

  • rosie
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Your question to Herbflavor leads right into my thought. It sounds like you really want an efficient core cooking area. That means bringing the fridge over into it. Would the dining room allow you to move that door down toward the bottom wall, eliminating all cabinets on that wall and lengthening the stove counter? That would create room to have the fridge at the stove counter, just a brisk step-turn away from the island, and if desired for the island be lengthened and turned to face the family room, as Herbflavor suggests.

    I truly don't know what goes into a baking center except a good counter and storage. How about dedicating a specific side of the island to your baking center? That way you could work away without facing into a wall. The pet supplies could go in pullouts on one of the outer sides of the island. Tea center over near the bay and table, away from the cooking core?

  • tracie.erin
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I think you can have a really nice space, and the range and main sink are fine where they are.. how about something like this? Your baking area can be on the island or between range & cleanup sink... the latter might be better if you wanted a lower counter. There's also island seating for two and bigger cleanup sink in in case you wanted one.

  • tracie.erin
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    PS - I forgot to put 36" or 48" rangetop/cooktop and vent hood in there for you, but you certainly have room for it.

  • lavender_lass
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I like tracie-erin's plan a lot, but I would put the microwave counter, between the fridge and ovens, so you have a landing space for either one. Right now, there's no where to set down milk, when you take it out of the fridge.

    I really like the island set up, with the sink and stool overhang...nicely done :)

  • newlynutmeg
    Original Author
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Oh, so many helpful replies that my mind is reeling. Thank you all so much!

    Blfenton, yes, there are 53" between the sink and the island, and 38" between the range and the island. I'll post pics in a few minutes. I'm having a hard time picturing the triangular island, but I like the idea. Between the end of the sink run cabinet and the sliding door is 32" of wall with an electrical outlet and light switches. That is where the cat fountain and feeding dish are at present. It is unlovely.

    Davidrol, lol! Yes, I am practical. I want the kitchen to be pretty, but first I want it to function without smoke alarms going off and smells lingering. I don't want to keep opening and closing those annoying bifold doors in the garage entry. Note to self: Look into replacing those with different doors.

    Herbflavor, aha! I seem to have an acute lack of vision, which is why I came here in the first place. Okay, I will try to commit that to paper. Thank you for opening these possibilities for me.

    Rosie, I am trying to get my head around moving the doorway, mostly because I don't know what you mean by "bottom wall." The sink wall?

    Yes, a good counter and storage. Island or perimeter, I have no preference. I'll just have to play around and see what will feel the best.

    The thought of reorienting the island has just made my jaw gape open. I honestly hadn't considered it. Doh! More soon.

  • formerlyflorantha
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Is there any other route into fam room or is the kitchen table always amidships in the only entry to fam room? Do you use fam room?

    Do you use the sliding doors to the outdoors by kitchen table? How much of a view out this set of doors and out the sink window? Is it possible to change the door to a different door, perhaps moved somewhat?

    Any gripes on access or relationship with the dining room?

    How many cooks today? How many in future?

  • newlynutmeg
    Original Author
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Here's the jog.

    Hope this helps.

  • newlynutmeg
    Original Author
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Ixnay on moving the dining room doorway. We pretty much bought this house because it accommodates our dining furniture. If we move the doorway, it will not fit.

    Florantha, there is no other entrance to the family room, which inconveniently involves a step. Grr. We have to go around the table. The step has to stay but the table does not. I worry about grandkids and the table/step/deck doors now.

    Well, there isn't much of a view there now, but we are working on it. :) I hate sliding doors and I'm happy to replace them. There isn't much room for them to move, though.

    We haven't used the dining room since we've been here! I don't think there are any particular worries as the kitchen is laid out now. I have to wonder about oven doors opening too close to the dining doorway during busy times. Does anyone have experience with that setup?

    There are only two of us here most of the time. My husband and I usually cook together, jockeying for sink and prep space. We have three adult offspring, all of whom cook with us when they are here. (My son is a professional chef; my son-in-law thinks he is.) The grandchild doesn't cook yet, but it won't be long.

  • blfenton
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    That pic really helps. I don;t think you want the fridge in the suggested spot either. When the door is open you effectively are blocking the doorway. (We were renting a house with that configuration and it really is a problem)
    Leave your fridge/pantry as is and then on the other side of the entry way door maybe try your wall ovens/microwave there?
    I really like the way tracie.erin drew your island. looks really functional with that extra sink.
    I'm not sure how you would transition from the main sink counter to/through the jog. Is that a corner that could be used for display items or cookbooks?
    It looks like you could even make the island another 12-18" wider into the eating area if you wanted and if there was a place to symmetrically line the edge of the island up to.

  • blfenton
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I meant to add, maybe mock up some configurations with sizes using big pieces of cardboard on your island.

  • newlynutmeg
    Original Author
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Yes, I too like tracie.erin's suggestions and the detailed island. (The problem, of course, is the jog.) I really like having the broom storage and cat feeding out of the main hive of activity.

    The jog definitely poses a challenge. That sink wall could be knocked out, but the sheer size of this kitchen already makes remodeling it expensive. I'd rather not have to remove the bay. Not saying we won't, but I would prefer not to. Just call me Bartleby the Scrivener.

    That area is a prime prepping spot now because of its proximity to the sink, so I will think more about what else I might do there.

    Mockups, yes. Better drawing software, too, methinks.

  • rosie
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Hmmm? Being very happy with a DRM as it is is great, but this you owe it to yourself to consider the options available to you, then fully aware of all trade-offs make the choices you want for yourselves.

    So many people start out refusing to even consider spending a few hundred moving plumbing or maybe a window because that's boring and would take money earmarked for the big shopping spree. Initial little decisions like that will affect everything that comes after, so they're not little at all and some turn out to be huge, even if no one ever realizes it.

    BTW, the "bottom wall" would be the one one the "bottom" on the diagrams you posted.

  • newlynutmeg
    Original Author
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Yes, you're right, Rosie. We do need to consider all options. In the case of the dining room doorway, it isn't money so much as preserving the space on the other side of the wall for DH's beloved heirloom dining furniture. The china cabinet fits in that spot perfectly, and there is no other wall in the room for it except for the wall with the even longer sideboard. (That darn dining furniture is why I get to win the induction/gas war.)

    Tearing that bay off the back of the house? It might be money well spent. We aren't opposed to doing it. In fact, that's about the only solution I could see. We'd just like to explore all the options there first.

    We don't oppose moving plumbing or gas lines or walls or whatever else needs to be moved. We aren't cheap or short-sighted; we are inexperienced.

    And a little bit ditzy, apparently. I had to laugh at myself for not realizing what you meant by the "bottom wall." Oy.