Why do you like this property better than the nicer one that is priced lower? You seem to want this location. Always wise to buy 'location', but...

...it sounds like you would have a nice concrete block pillbox -- with running water? -- once you gutted this place. What's the land value? Sounds like a teardown would be more practical than such a huge renovation.

chisue - I know, I know - seems crazy! But you are correct - I do like the location better on this house.

Yes, there's running water & a decent kitchen with lots of cabinets & big fireplace & nice windows. I thought about the teardown option, but wouldn't build anything any different as far as size & layout. I think it would cost much more to build from the ground up since I can & will do some of the renovation myself. Except for the retaining wall - that will need heavy equipment - electrical & things that need licensed people.

The land value is where the $ is. It is the same exact lot size as the other house that's for sale, but just nicer location - no houses that close, bigger trees. I realize there is some value in that but not as much as they think.

I'm looking at it for extremely long term & want to live there full time eventually. Also, could be done gradually & the expense spread over several years.

You could offer what you think it's worth, but if the seller is not in a "must sell" situation, the seller won't sell it for less than what ever the seller thinks they should be getting for it.

Part of me really questions whether or not I would want to attempt to engage in business with some one who overprices that much. 65%-70%! If they have blinders that big on, I would probably move on and not waste my time.

While you can't fault some one for trying to get as much out of their property as they can at some point the sellers seem not really all that interested in selling.

There are so many 'bargains' out there now - I'm sure you could find something else you liked as well if you look a bit harder.

Well I am from the Location, location, location camp so I understand where you are coming from. I wouldn't be afraid to come in with a low offer and present with pictures. What have you got to loose? Perhaps an agent leaned them to a price not knowing the damage.

True - there are going to be others that would "do". However, this one is as close to where I want & how I want to retire as anything I can imagine finding. I will probably end up making a low offer and maybe it will work out. They probably won't accept and then I'll move on. I've been looking online & driving to check out properties for about a year & this is the first that I've wanted to own.

I figure I'm on a 10 year plan - find, buy, renovate, use for a weekend getaway for a few years then move in full time.

Hi Dart --

I think you have already answered your own question. Make the lower offer but with respect. In other words, document all the work that would need to go into the structure (photos, descriptions, etc.) and present your best offer. One that you can live with. But be willing to walk away. It will work out if it is meant to be.

Good luck and let us know how it works out!

If you can buy it for close to land value you'll be OK whether you renovate or tear down and start over.

We bought a 1950's ranch that was where we wanted to be, planning to renovate. We did a virtual tear down when it became evident that it was going to cost more to renovate, after which we'd have a partially new, partially old house. We saved the chimney and fireplace; that's all.

Someday a buyer will pay more for a newer house with matching newer and to-code mechanicals -- on a beautiful lot! So far, it seems we guessed right, as neighboring properties have become tear downs after people paid 150% of what we paid.

Thank you everyone for the great advice. That's an interesting point chisue. In the long run it MAY be better to rebuild. If this works out & I do get it that's something to consider/evaluate when I can tear into things.

azdreamhome - sounds like you found yours or are you still looking for it? You hit the nail on the head when you advise to offer "with respect". If presented correctly, this might work.

The realtor that showed us was not aware of the extensive termite damage & saw it for himself when we moved some furniture around to check it out. Wasn't aware of the old wiring or asbestos ceiling tile either & of course had never been in the attic. I don't get the feeling he'd be too surprised by a low offer. That said, he's not got the final say..... The property is for sale by an out of state relative of the deceased owner & the disclosure states that they've never lived there so I have no doubt they do not know any of this either.

The disclosure says that because THEY DON'T WANT TO KNOW -- 'know' officially, that is. I bet they do know -- just not 'officially'. They are going to know when you present the offer and photo proof, so they'd better sell to YOU!

"Am I crazy to consider this property? "

Yes.

Just a thought --be sure to check out if you need permits, and no matter where you are electric does need permits, federal requirement even in a county without any codes. Also if there is asbestis you may have to get special permits to meet get rid of it, I don't think you can just paint over. Is your escrow require truth in lending disclouser statements? If you have well water, get a certificate etc. Good luck and if you like the locations enjoy!!!

If I were interested in the property, I'd do what azdreamhome suggests: "Make the lower offer but with respect. In other words, document all the work that would need to go into the structure (photos, descriptions, etc.) and present your best offer."

The market is supposed to get worse before it gets better. Who knows how long it will last or why the seller has this house on the market. Can you find out his/her reason for selling?

If you make your offer now (directly to the owner with no time constraints), they might be more willing to work with you down the road before the market picks up again. Especially if you don't add too many contingencies.

LOL disneyrsh!

mariend - yes, we will have everything done to code & hire licensed people where we need them. I plan on doing the cosmetic interior things myself - drywall, flooring, etc. No well - thank goodness. From what I've read about asbestos there are different levels of danger - ceiling tiles are considered non-friable - not bad unless you crumble them causing dust & particles to be released. Not to say they are harmless, but they could be left in place & painted.

dreamgarden - The sale is being done by an out-of-state relative or friend of the deceased owner who inherited it. My guess is they will never go there so why keep it. I don't know how many people have to split the profit - but it is ALL profit. We have no time constraints or contingencies. We are willing to take it AS-IS if we can get it for the right price. There is a realtor on their end.

Just have to respond.
11 years ago DH said we need to buy a cottage/future retirement home. Maybe a future teardown if the property is right.
We go looking. Found one. Lakefront, 2 fireplaces, 2 bedroom, 1 bath, large 3 season room, 2 car garage, BUT very small lot 45'x125', well encroaches on neighbors property, huge trees leaning on house, etc.
We offered $105,000. Daughter says no, $125,000. Realtor did his best, said daughter did not understand the home sale market at the time. We walked away.
Fast forward one year. Realtor calls us, wants to know if still interested in house? Daughter not happy having to keep heating house, paying taxes and having driveway plowed.
Well, by this time we had bought a 3 bedroom, 1.5 bath, 2 car garage, 2 sheds, lakefront with a lot 108' x 450', for $115,000.
Needless to say, the other house did sell, but 2 or 3 years down the road. Don't know what the sale $ was, but the new owners put at least $150,000 in improvements in it. (they gave me a tour).
Take a chance, make an offer. Or move on. Ya never know what's around the corner!
Kathy G in MI, living on the lake and loving it!

Dart, I think I can chime in here as we bought a property such as you are looking at. Our house was built in 1946 but is on "prime" river land, and what we bought it for (from the family) was basically the cost of the land itself. It had structural damage from an underground city water line that had burst back in the 60's, and it was our intention to renovate the entire house.

After lifting the house, blowing out the basement, piling, and dropping the house back down. Our next step was to renovate the main floor (all flooring, walls - which were plaster and cracked, all electrical, and all plumbing.)

At FIL's insistence, we took our renovation plans to an architect and he point blank told us we were "nuts" (which is what I had already told DH, but that's a whole nuther story lol). His recommendation was that the cost to basically "re-build" this house in the end would not help us from a re-sale standpoint, even though we want to live here long-term, because we could only market the house as built in 1946 - regardless of the upgrades.

It was his recommendation to take our money and tear down. God I love that man! We now have the house of our dreams, on the same footprint & land that we coveted, but if we ever need to sell, we can do so with a 2007 build year.

A major advantage in tearing down, was that I was able to put rooms where I wanted them, at sizes we needed, because we could incorporate beams to span any distance needed. You often can't do that in those older homes with such small rooms.

It did cost us more, but we are soooo much happier with the end result.

Good luck to you!

Lora

With an out of town seller it doesn't sound like the seller really has a good picture of what's going on and additionally probably doesn't have a real relationship with the realtor either. Normally one might rely on realtors who actually know their client face to face to bring a seller into reality. In this case I think the excellent idea of a respectful letter with an outline of issues and markets with pictures might be the surest way to get your point across. The more people involved and the longer the distance the more likely the message will get garbled.

Lora, tear down rebuilers - can you sometimes use the original basement? Or does it cause more cost and trouble than worth?

Kathy - nothing like Michigan lakes. I miss Michigan so much. Wish I had a job where I could work anywhere I wanted. Wish I could retire now!

Ah! I'm so glad to read that others cut their losses and did teardowns. When we bought the old ranch we planned to remodel we did so primarily because we wanted to live in this particular neighborhood, on this particular street. (We knew we liked it; later discovered that realtors advertise homes here "on coveted, 'XYZ' Road".)

As we talked to GCs, consensus was that remodeling would be an open-end cost. Nobody knows for sure what lies beneath or behind existing walls, and you have to go slowly and carefully. It can be more costly than new construction, and you don't end up with an all-new house. With a teardown, the bulldozer takes it all down in half a day. Our new next-door neighbor, an appraiser, provided the clincher: tear down for your own comfort and for future value! (He was right, but he also had a vested interest. He sold his lot and old ranch for a teardown two years after we bought -- for 150% of what we paid.)

marys1000 -- We did save the basement and a chimney. As far as our city was concerned, this was an 'extensive remodel', not an official teardown. Today I think they'd skip that and call it what it is: a teardown. They've instituted hefty teardown permits which we escaped.

This has worked out so well for us. We love our tight, new house with large rooms, wide doorways, 9-foot ceilings, new mechanicals -- plus our location and mature landscaping. The few remaining old ranches that have sold for teardowns have brought much more than we paid. Only downside is that our taxes rise as the big, new homes rise. We wanted and built 'small', but GCs want to maximize profits, so build 'big' on these acre-plus lots 3 minutes from the center of town. Fortunately the city has tight limits on just how big.

Hi all - Just to update the saga. Made our best offer: as-is, seller does nothing, immediate closing & it wasn't denied... exactly. I was told they had another offer, but if it fell thru the realtor would contact us. Probably just too low. Disappointed, but there will be something else - in no hurry since it's a second home.

Thanks again for all of the feedback! I'll be back with the next one....

The story continues.....

The other contract fell thru. They got all of the inspections - general home, termite & septic - and decided they didn't want to do the work. We bought their reports for 1/2 price and they didn't show anything we didn't already know. We made our offer - respectfully! - and explained why we thought it was valid. We got it for 60% of asking price! It's on a beautiful, private lake & we are closing this month.

We plan to paint & live with it for a couple of years before deciding what to renovate/rebuild, etc.

Awesome, congrats!

congrats on the house - sounds like you'll have some "projects" to keep yourself busy a long time - I mean that in a good way. My experience with termite damage is that you can take the amount of damage you know about, multiply it by four, and that's how much damage you have. Plus, even after you have treated, other bugs can start to "borrow" their tunnels - I eventually won that fight too but not before wondering if there was an infestation.

Thanks roselvr & mfbenson!

Yep, we've got some "projects" but plenty of time to sort it all out. The termite inspection showed no active termites & evidence of a prior treatment. Just don't know when & the estate doesn't either so we'll keep a close eye for activity & proceed from there.

Kind of excited about another project actually - especially since the view is so nice & breaks can be taken on the boat that got thrown into the deal!