I think you are doing a fine job, 369k wont get them any new lookers from a realtor.com search perspective (The next lowest rung below 400k is 350k). So I would think they would only get new lookers for people who were already watching it or new buyers into the market.

One possibility, in a week have your realtor contact them and ask how you can bridge the gap in a non-monetary fashion (fast/slow closing, bigger earnest money down so they are more assured the transaction will close).

Figure out what are willing to pay and stick to it, that is the right way to go in negotiations. (Although it would get a little sticky if they came back at 355 or 352.5 I might budge some then).

Be careful--sellers in divorce--all could go out the window, depending on judge etc. If deal goes thru, make sure your lawyer checks everything out. Be sure and check to make sure the title is clear without liens. May sure the lawyers from both sides know what is going on also.

It seems you like the house a lot but at the current minimum perceived price by the sellers it is out of your budget....

I checked few sites to get feel of the MA RE market and it is definitely turning more and more buyers market forcing serious buyers to reduce price in order to sell..based on what I read from multiple news outlets( links attached below for your reference ) the inventory is already 13 months. Wonder how much the increase will be come next spring?...you could just wait couple of months and might even get lucky to get the house at your original price if the articles quoted below are any indication of where MA RE market is headed...well by waiting you are also risking letting someone else come in with higher offer and buy the house..so you need to decided how badly you want this particular house.

State home sales slide over summer

Bay State housing in deepening slide

Home sales, prices decline, Sixth consecutive drop

Downsizing dreams delayed Housing slowdown making it hard for suburban empty-nesters to fly the coop

try 99, those articles are interesting to read, but even in a "small" area like MA they don't apply to every town. My town is not even close to having a 13 month inventory, I think we are pretty close to normal for this time of year. We had several properties close in November, most of them over $1 mill. Some properties sold for a fair price and a few still got top dollar. People will still pay for location and excellent schools.

OP, a divorce sale is tough. Make sure you use a lawyer and cover all your bases. Some friends got divorced a few years ago, he became very bitter and did everything to mess up the process. She wanted to buy him out, he wouldn't go for it. They had a few offers which he turned down. Finally sold, for less than the first offers, but he was happy because it meant she got less money and didn't get the house, never mind that his children lived there! Crazy.

Depends on how much you want it and whether it will appeal to another buyer. We recently had a house sell that I was convinced would sit forever at the asking price and sold for more than I would have paid. My problem is we have some business stuff going on and also I cannot get my act together to list my house (I could buy without one or the other but not both). If I had wanted to take a risk I could have tried to buy the house. In a way it was perfect for us, in a way I had grander dreams, DH loved it. Its hard to say until its snatched away by someone else how much you really want it and how much you are willing to pay. There are houses I should have bought in 1993 that I still regret not buying (no longer because I do not own them since we are moving to another Town for social reasons but now because they would have been worth a bit more than my house.)

What I am trying to say is that the house we recently lost was a fairly unique one (in a good way) and there are not many others like it in my area, so when one comes up for sale there is interest. The broker sort of confirmed that it was a buyer that fell in love with the house and had the resources to overpay slightly. It had sat most of the summer and got an offer in October

If this house is typical for your area then it will sit unless its fixed up in a special way or else has something else to draw people to it. What is it worth? Could it be worth 365 to someone else? How long have you been looking, cdoes this meet your needs in a way that most others in your price range do not? I might repeat the 345 in a week or so at least have your agent look into it. If this were a stabl market I would say its not worth losing it over 20k but its not my money and right now anything can happen in real estate, I have no predictions just that its not stable

Call them up, or call up their realtor and say "I noticed you lowered the price, would you like to reconsider my last offer?" and see what they say.

Well, what is a fair price? You said the $399K "seemed" overpriced. Then you totally lowballed. What does $365K get you in that area and how does it compare?

emb7 wrote: Well, what is a fair price? You said the $399K "seemed" overpriced. Then you totally lowballed. What does $365K get you in that area and how does it compare?

I agree, doesn't anyone look at recent (I KNOW they have to be recent) comps anymore? It would be nice (for buyers) if sellers were fine with selling their homes for the price that buyers "wish" they were, but that is not usually the case!

Thanks for all the responses. Regarding price, there are not enough recent sales to generate real comps. Other sales in the town are not comparable, as it's a pretty depressed town. Schools are not good, and there are no cultural amenities. Prices on the lake are much higher, but there aren't enough homes selling in any given period of time to consider them meaningful comps.

The most comparable home on this lake was listed last spring at $399K, and sold in September at $343K. A smaller home (by 2 bedrooms and a bath) sold in August--asking $299, sold in ~3 months at $259. A comparably-sized home in *much* better shape has been on the market for 8 months--starting at $479, currently listed at $388K. (Gorgeous lot, very strangely laid out spaces, so DOM and falling price might be idiosyncratic--and who knows at what point it will finally sell). Stunning home next door to the one I'm looking at was listed last season at $549 and is now off the market, presumable to be re-listed next season.

These constitute ALL the homes for sale within the past year, so you can see that they don't really constitute a set of comps. The home we're looking at is in very rough shape, with no maintenance for the last ~10 years. The layout is perfect for us, given our somewhat unique desires (huge separable office space), so it has an appeal for us that it may not have for other buyers. But who knows? Right now there are 2 homes for sale on the lake--this one, and the strange layout one with the dramatically falling price.

Regarding the divorce, the couple has agreed on a third party who is handling the sale of this home. Husband has fled to Hawaii (!), wife is staying in the home until it sells, complaining all the while. Good point to be wary of the divorce situation, but I do think that a sale will go through once there's agreement on price.

BTW, this would be a second home for us (that's why we have no contingencies on our offer), and it is a year-round home. If this home doesn't work out for us, we will remain focused on finding a home on this lake.

"I agree, doesn't anyone look at recent (I KNOW they have to be recent) comps anymore? It would be nice (for buyers) if sellers were fine with selling their homes for the price that buyers "wish" they were, but that is not usually the case!"

I did -- both as a seller last summer and as a buyer this.

Looking at comps was *why* I offered about 82% of listing price on a house last month. And, you were critical of me for lowballing. However, I *had* looked at comps and the comps told me the house was overpriced. The seller ended up pulling the house off the market (probably because his agent told him that our offer was much closer to the market value of his house than what he listed at.

We are now under contract on a house and will close next week. We started out with an offer that was a little over 90% of listing price and fairly quickly settled on a price. THat house was a little overpriced but not a lot overpriced.

Laura, I remember how stressed I was a seller this summer. Even though we sold fairly quickly (90 days) it seemed forever. I think that perhaps you are overgeneralizing from your own experience. The reality is that there are sellers out there who do overprice their houses. And, when they do it isn't "lowballing" to offer something that you think may help you get to market value.

katsmeow wrote: The reality is that there are sellers out there who do overprice their houses.

I'm sure there are, kats. But another reality is that you didn't get the house that you lowballed, for *whatever reason.

As a seller who did have the experience of receiving a lowball offer, I was curious as to how the buyers had arrived at that number and asked my agent to ask theirs to show us the comps they had used. She (the agent) admitted that she had NOT run the comps and that the buyers had no real basis for their offer. After my agent showed her our comps, their agent admitted that their offer was way out of the ballpark.

If you want to call that generalizing, fine but based on what I've read on this Forum, my experience was in no way unique.

We received a lowball offer on the house we were selling in SoCal. It was listed at 589k and we got an unofficial "fishing" offer of 550k. We didn't even respond and 2 weeks later got an offer at full price.

But laura, you didn't sell, and now your new realtor has all sorts of nifty but expensive improvements for you to make when you relist in the spring. And there is no evidence at all that conditions will be better in the spring. Meanwhile, your hellish neighbor is lying in wait to make your life absolutely miserable as you try to sell.Given all this, is it worth waiting for a nonlowball offer?

There are two kinds of lowballing. Some buyers lowball because they just can't resist. Those are the ones who end up disappointed, not understanding why the seller never wants to deal with them again.

Then there are the lowballers who are entirely justified. The seller is obdurate and refuses to understand that his house isn't worth as much as he thinks it is. It's very difficult to convince the seller, even when showing them comps. Often, these sellers end up getting much less than listing price, if they ever sell at all.

Sometimes people put their house on the market as a fishing expedition and when they get lowball offers they pull the house off the market. You can say, in truth, that the house was never really for sale.

Lynsski, I think that if you really really love this house, and the sellers are still willing to deal with you, then it's kind of self-defeating to lose it for a mere $20,000. So I would just suck it up and pay the extra $20,000 or maybe try to offer $355,000 which splits the difference. Since the house if on the lake, in my opinion, it's unique enough to justify paying a little more. Think of it this way, $20,000 over 30 years (if you had a mortgage) is a fairly negligible amount.

kaleberg wrote: Given all this, is it worth waiting for a nonlowball offer?

Yes, it is. I know what my home is worth (assessed value + appraisals + comps) and I'm not about to give it away. We are anxious to sell but not desperate.

And we are not waiting until the Spring to relist, we are listing it as soon as the improvements are completed.

Oh, and thanks for all the encouragement. @@

"I'm sure there are, kats. But another reality is that you didn't get the house that you lowballed, for *whatever reason. "

I guess I think the use of the word lowball is meant to be pejorative to buyers and is meant to imply that any low offer is unreasonable. And, that just isn't the case. I know you peg me as an unreasonable buyer but bear in mind that just a few months ago I was a seller. I've been in both shoes this year.

And, while it is true that I didn't get that house, I think that misses a lot of the point. Two points, actually. The seller also didn't get to sell the house. We were ready and willing to buy the house with only a financing contingency. I have since found out the seller has had the house on and off the market for a couple of years, apparently never really being serious about selling. So, whose not serious here? Me or him?

The second point is that I didn't want that house enough to pay an extremely inflated price for it, one that I feel sure it would not have appraised at.

katsmeow wrote: you were critical of me for lowballing.
katsmeow also wrote: I know you peg me as an unreasonable buyer

I guess I was and I did but do you remember that *most of the other posters who responded to your thread about your lowball offer also (1) thought you made a lowball offer and (2) were baffled that you were baffled that the seller didn't counter your lowball offer??

You don't really know why the seller pulled his home off the market. Maybe he intends to sell it FSBO or privately, to family. Or maybe he just got tired of dealing with lowball offers! He may indeed be "serious" about selling, but at HIS PRICE.

And it sounds like you have found another home that you are very happy with so all of this is really moot at this point.

Here is a link that might be useful: Seller didn't counter

Hey kats meow congrats on the house. My family and I are currently looking for a house and are trying to decide on a starting price. What was the final percentage of the asking price did you end up paying. And what area are you in? Thanks.

"Or maybe he just got tired of dealing with lowball offers! He may indeed be "serious" about selling, but at HIS PRICE."

If a seller keeps getting lowball offers, then there is something very, very wrong with his price. The seller may never be able to sell the house at *his price*, if *his price* is not based in reality.

I never deal with lowball offers.
It is not worth my time or my agents time.
I am not in the busniess of 'educating' buyers.
I typically purchase properties from estats, and generally have few problems getting a reasonable deal accepted. The places almost always need heavy work.
After renovations and repairs I put them back on themarket. They are often at the uppper middle for the area (that is what I am aiming for).
Every once in a while some yahoo looks up the recent sale price I payed and makes a lowball offer based on the unimproved price (once apparently without doing more than driving by the property - the new key had not been placed in the lockbox yet).
I am sure some of these buyers just wanted to 'start a dialogue', but they are not worth the trouble.

John75 - Thanks. Our final price is around 95% of listing price.

Laura

"I guess I was and I did but do you remember that *most of the other posters who responded to your thread about your lowball offer also (1) thought you made a lowball offer and (2) were baffled that you were baffled that the seller didn't counter your lowball offer?? "

I guess we see it differently. I think a lot of people understood why I didn't want to make an offer that was out of line with comps. Let me put it this way? What should a buyer do who wants to buy a particular house but thinks it is listed too high compared to comps? It seems to me that there are 3 choices: Offer to pay a price that won't be supported by appraisal and pay more than the house is objectively worth (and if someone loves a house enough to do that and can afford it not appraising that is fine with me), move on to another house without making an offer (what most buyers do, but then everyone loses out) or make an offer closer to comps (probably won't work but maybe it will).

"You don't really know why the seller pulled his home off the market. Maybe he intends to sell it FSBO or privately, to family. Or maybe he just got tired of dealing with lowball offers! He may indeed be "serious" about selling, but at HIS PRICE."

No, I don't have a pipeline to his thought process. However, I do know that his agent thought he should have countered and I do know that the seller has had the house off and on the market for a couple of years. So maybe he is serious about selling at HIS PRICE as you put it. And, that is fine if he can get it. I don't see why though I should feel like I have to offer HIS PRICE if I don't think the house is worth it.

"And it sounds like you have found another home that you are very happy with so all of this is really moot at this point. "

For me, yes. But I don't think you are being objective enough to realize that there really are honest to God sellers out there who are asking for unreasonable prices and not every seller is reasonable. I am willing to believe that you have your house priced perfectly appropriately. I am willing to believe that you are not being unreasonable in the amount you are listing your house for. I am willing to believe that you are not an unreasonable seller. You seem to be unwilling to believe that any buyer who gives a "lowball" offer could possibly be the reasonable one. I am just suggesting that you should acknowledge that it is indeed possible that a seller is the unreasonable one and the buyer is the reasonable one. In my particular situation given what has occurred since I made the lowball offer (the fact my agent - a certified appraiser - felt my offer was reasonable, the fact the seller pulled the house off the market, and the fact that I quickly entered into a contract for 95% of listing price) supports the idea that I was not the one being unreasonable.
"

Minet, I'm glad that you got your price, but I wouldn't consider an offer of more than 93% of your asking price to be a lowball offer. Now, if they had offered $500k, that would be lowballing.

Thanks terriks - what percentage would you consider to be a lowball? Now that the shoe is on the other foot - I'm now looking to *buy* a house - I'm wondering how to offer enough but not too much.

I'm thinking about a house that is listed at $325k - not sure (agent hasn't confirmed) but it seems to have been on the market for at least a couple of months. Would 300k (about 92%) be considered too low an offer? The most I want to spend is about 315k. Should I start lower?

Would 300k (about 92%) be considered too low an offer?

That's hard to tell. I guess it depends upon the seller's frame of mind. You should have your agent look up the days on market AND the original listing price. That will give you an idea of where the sellers' heads are at. Of course, if the house is overpriced it really doesn't matter what their reasoning is. You need to make an offer based on comparable sales and what YOU need.

It seems to me that the term "lowball offer" really can't accomodate all these different meanings. Particularly in the unstable RE markets that are currently the norm in most places, there's a huge gap between sellers' expectations (often based on their neighbors' prices from 6-9 months past), and buyer's expectations (perhaps more current...or perhaps based on what they think the "value" might be in 6-9 months if the market keeps falling).

Some "lowball" offers might be a way to try to bridge that gap. Some "lowball" offers might be a way to feel out the sellers' frame of mind. Some "lowball" offers might reflect the buyers' inability to pay beyond a very low price point on a given house.

I don't know why "lowball offer" should have such a universally negative sense to it. Especially in these uncertain times, a lowball offer can be an important investigative tool. In our case (I'm the OP), we offered very low, in line with appraisal and recent prices, but adjusted for the large amount of work the home would require. The sellers countered immediately with a small drop in price, and a couple of changes in conditions (i.e., inspection dates). This told us a lot--that they're serious about selling, but not (yet) realistic about its current market value.

We're still waiting. Sellers dropped the asking price $30K, but I don't believe they've had any real interest since then. Realtors on the lake say "Nothing is moving." It looks like an old man (father of one of the sellers?) is now living alone in the house, which feels very sad. I think if we hold on and do nothing, we'll be able to buy it at around $350K before the end of the year.

I must admit, however, that as time goes by, I feel less certain that I want the house. The extra debt, the uncertain market, the illiquidity of funds. If we had agreed on a purchase price right away, we'd be thrilled. Now I'm not so sure that we'll buy, even at that same price. The value in the buyer's mind decreases as time goes by. There's a huge mental component to this waiting game.

"The value in the buyer's mind decreases as time goes by."

Yes! This is so true. In addition to missing the excitement that a newer listing generates, if a house stays on the market too long, buyers start thinking there is something dreadfully wrong with it.