What would you do with this bathroom? (X-post)

14 years ago

I've asked this on forums I frequent (incl Bathrooms) but they suggested I ask you folks over here on Remodeling....

We've invested in a fixer-upper with a fabulous address. We are about 75% through major renovations, the last space we need to figure out is the hall bathroom.

For our use, either a tub/shower combo or shower stall would work fine (more in a sec) but looking ahead to RESALE (in ~4 years).... in this situation which do you think is more desirable???

I'll attach a plan of the house. It has 2 bathrooms, one of which is at the end of the master suite area. We recently remodeled the master bath (pics below) and it has a great walk-in shower and a separate soaking tub. So we do have a tub in the house.

This bath in question is SMALL... just 5 x 8.3 feet. It serves as the company powder room, in addition to being the bathroom our teen daughter uses (she's in the top left bedroom.) She'd prefer a stall shower but not by a huge margin. A stall shower would allow us to add more much-needed storage. BUT my gut tells me that a tub/shower combo is better for resale. I am not sure who the buyer would be. It's a town with a great school system. It's a one-level house. It won't be starter-home priced, more mid/high end.

The house has a master suite, plus a decent sized bedroom, plus a small nursery/kid bedroom/or home office.....

The choice is between a new tub/shower combo and a 36" neo-angle shower stall (we have a nearly-new one we removed from our master bathroom that we would use.)

What would you do???

Plan:

Master bathroom with tub and shower:

My thought is that for our short-term use the shower might be better, but not drastically better enough to outweigh resale. And that the tub/shower combo might be better for resale. Although the shower would open up the space more, make it less crowded (shower curtains on tubs always visually shorten the room, don't they?) IN either case, we might consider moving the doorway to open up the floor space. Right now it's chopped into a weird tight space as you can see below.

Floor plans would be as shown. The current floor plan, which would remain largely the same in the tub/shower layout, has little useable floor space. it feels crowded in there. I'm not sure whether the shower floorplan works any better or not...

Existing floorplan. If we did a new tub/shower and vanity adn kept this layout the same, it would be the least amount of work. But... crowded?!?

Shower plan. We'd have to move the door AND move the toilet over about 6". Would not have to move the stack, just the trap.

Tub plan with door moved. The toilet would stay in the same place, so plumbing is easier. We'd have to move the door. But is the floor space a lot more useable this way (even if we keep a tub)?

What would you do???

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Comments (16)

revamp
14 years ago
last modified: 9 years ago
I would not want the only tub in the house to be in my master bath.

Personally, we use a tub for: bathing young kids, washing the dogs, soaking/cleaning large things (miniblinds...)

If you figure you're moving out in as soon as 5 years, I would leave the tub.

If you think you may be staying longer, make the bathroom work how you want it to and don't worry about the possible impact on resale.

If it were me, and this is a purely personal opinion, I would just leave it as-is. The cost and pain of juggling things around isn't worth the payoff of possibly an extra shelf or a little bit of floorspace
Stacey Collins
Original Author
14 years ago
last modified: 9 years ago
Thank you-

It does need to be gutted and renovated, though (disgusting very old tub, bad tile, water damaged walls). And we've really brought the level of the rest of the house up a lot, so need to do the same here. So, even if the layout stays exactly the same, it'll still be a project :)

I asked this on other forums and it seems to be about 3-to-one in favor of the tub/shower combo.
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staceyneil, I'm in the minority voting for the neo-angle shower. For me, bathing toddlers in a shower/tub combo with the faucet next to the toilet was not ideal, and within a few years they preferred showers anyway. My master bath has since been remodeled with a shower and a tub with easy access on 2 sides. If I had that when the kids were small, I would have bathed them in that tub instead. It might be helpful to get input from a realtor who specializes in your area and price range. Maybe your home appeals to the DINK couple or an about-to-be-empty-nester family. Both might prefer a shower in the hall bath. As far as gaining storage while retaining an airy rather than densely packed feel, the space next to the neo-angle shower looks like all you'd need to augment the large medicine cabinet and concealed storage in the vanity wall. Could you could anchor a 21" wide by 18" deep semi-floating vanity to the corner walls? I'm envisioning a scaled-down version of the vanity in your master, but without a sink and installed at kitchen height. Would that leave enough space between the side of the vanity and the short wall of the shower without looking awkward? Maybe the vanity should be only 18" wide, with a small towel bar or hook on the side of the vanity. Leaving a standard 18" above the new vanity, I would hang a 24" tall wall cabinet, possibly only about 9" deep, with glass doors in metal frame. If you have an 8' ceiling, that leaves 18" above the wall cabinet for storage or decorative items. Those are the general ~~height~~ dimensions of a 56" wide dry bar near my kitchen. My dry bar is installed in a 24" deep niche that used to be part of a standard 8' closet. On each side wall, the 12" deep wall cabinets are attached to the wall through a 12" wide piece of matching wood that runs from the ceiling to the bottoms of the wall cabinets. On the 56" x 12" strip of ceiling above the wall cabinets, there is a flyover of matching wood with a puck light in the center. The front edge of the flyover is finished with the same very simple crown molding used in the rest of the kitchen. In your case, maybe the molding could wrap around the corner back to the wall. I apologize if I come off as presumptuous by imposing my style preferences on your bathroom design! I've just noticed that we have similar taste in bathrooms, and I thought some elements of my dry bar might work for your bathroom. Seeing photos of your gorgeous master bath convinced me to go with a semi-recessed sink on a floating vanity. Good luck with your remodel. I can't wait to see pictures! docdom
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Okay. I'll start right off with the part that you (and others) probably won't like to hear, to get it off my chest and out of the way. :-) When I see a home that has the exact same cabinetry and granite in the bathrooms as in the kitchen, I don't really get a "custom" vibe off it. To MY eye, it is a rather more builder-y look, like the leftovers from the kitchen counters were used up in the bathrooms (the "well, we paid for the whole d@mn slab, use it up!" philosophy) and the bathroom cabinets were lumped into the same order as the kitchen. If you are passionate enough about those cabinets that you want them in the bathrooms, by all means use them, but think about a different stain and a different top; conversely, if your heart is really set on the granite, put it on top of a slightly different cabinet. When I read your post and saw your pictures, though, what popped into my head were Jim Canton's custom "rustic" and "country" (which still has your beadboard door insert and I'm sure stained parts could be matched to the kitchen if you wanted to do that, but I like the mix of painted and stained parts) vanities. Yes, they're expensive - perhaps think of those as inspiration if your budget does not stretch that far. I admit to being a bit of a ho for the unfitted look but if you have the space a pine pie safe type cabinet would be great for storage, stained to match the trim. Since you adore copper as much as I do, copper sinks are almost a no-brainer, and ditto for lighting. Look at Arroyo Craftsman's offerings. I just LOVE their Simplicity series which is so very versatile. I have the "raw copper" SB-1 sconces and hate how they're patinating, so I would recommend the antique copper instead. Clawfoot Supply has some pretty and reasonably-priced copper towel bars etc. (the Aztec line), and this nameless one from A-Ball Plumbing is quite nifty as well. I like how they're all subtly different instead of being really matchy-matchy. For the floors, I think a slate-look porcelain mosaic would look excellent and be very durable/easy to take care of. I myself like a rather scaled-down tile size for a smaller room, and it does provide better traction and believe it or not it's not that busy if the grout is kept to the same color value as the tile. If the bathroom floor were going to actually touch the real slate flooring I would go in a different direction, but since they're separated by carpet and you can't stand on one and see the other, I think you're OK. Both Daltile and AO have very convincing slate-look "suites" in which there's a 12x12 tile and a mosaic; I think it would look great in the tub surround to use the larger tiles as a field with a listello of the mosaic tiles (three rows, say) at about shoulder height. American Olean's "Highland Ridge" has a fabulous mosaic of 1x3 tiles along with 12x12s. Yes, it would darken the tub alcove but that's easily enough rectified with a couple of recessed lights (about the only use I really like the things for! LOL). I think you're a very smart person for eliminating the whole subway-tile schtick, but if the dark tile is just too much for you, I'd think about a 8x8 or 12x12 white tile trimmed out with a slate-look mosaic, as a broad listello and perhaps vertically at the border of the tile. I think the embossed copper you're using for kitchen backsplash would be perfect on the ceilings. Rather than being "in your face" they would be something that you catch out of the corner of your eye, and perhaps don't even register consciously but just add to the whole sense of warmth and charm as well as reflecting light downwards. Think about using the plastic version though - they look very good and you won't have any problem at all with corrosion. Aluminum "tins" won't rust but are much more expensive. If you have leftovers that you want to use up and you're working with steel, make sure to backprime them with a rust inhibitor.
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Well now if you stop worrying about every little freaking thing, what happens to us??? We're unemployed ;-) I'm trying to picture your layout but honestly it isn't clear to me. Generally I like to see something other than a 50/50 split but there are other things that come into play - how does that 50/50 or 33/66 relate to the finished height of your vanity counters, to the windows (if any) either at sill or apron height. I like continuity, too and like to see some relation to other horizontal lines in a space - expecially a space like a bathroom. But that doesn't mean everything has to end at the same height, just that you need to put those other lines into the thought process so you don't end up with staggered and unrelated horizontal lines all through the space. Clear as mud?
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benjesbride I absolutely LOVE this idea! Is moving a waste line more of an issue than moving the plumbing lines? I've always hated that the toilet is right at the door and would like to add a partition wall between the would be new vanity and toilet location. There is a vent in the rear of the existing shower (from bottom to top of building) that is about 12" wide. It's goes all the way to the end of the foyer closet. That leaves us with about 72" of space along the foyer closet wall to add a toilet and vanity. I think the toilet requires 30" so a 42" double vanity (or two smaller single vanities). We cannot have washer/dryers in this complex (old 1950's plumbing). But I've always complained about no linen closet in the bathroom so that works too. I'd like to move the door to the foyer; however, that would require a split vanity due to the heating pipes in the middle of the room along the wall behind the existing door. No, we are not adding a bedroom. That may be a later addition though, years from now. An neighbor converted the rear of the living/dining area to an office/bedroom (photo below). I've tried to adjust the floor plan to add the vent/shaft in the rear of the shower. It may not be worth the time and expense to open up the foyer wall if we can't get a great layout.
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paul21
14 years ago
last modified: 9 years ago
Definitely keep the tub/shower combo as to changing the location of the door, I'd say go with your gut feeling. Personally I don't see the advantage of moving the door other than the visual appearance of the fixtures all in a row unless stepping in and passing between the toilet and the sink in the present floorplan seems to make the space crowded . You will have to step back from the sink in order to open the door in the alternate floorplan. What about a pocket door since you plan to do some major gutting here anyway ?
firstmmo
14 years ago
last modified: 9 years ago
Hi Stacey! :)
I think keeping the tub combo is not a bad idea considering that there's only two baths.

I like the door moved, but I think what's more important is seeing if that would affect how the family uses that BA. The entry would swing it to the hall--good in my opinion because you can't see inside the BA from the family room/kitchen. I tend to not like being able to see a bathroom from a kitchen. But, it means you do have to walk around the corner to get inside then. Does that bother you? It also places the entry just a tiny bit further for your daughter's bedroom--but again, I like it better squarely in the hall so when she comes out of the bathroom, she's not directly walked into the family area.

I also think the layout is more "predictable" if the door is moved. Resale sometimes relies on predictable--people expect to see what they want to see. The quirky layouts tend to catch people's eye and lower value. In this case I don't think it would really affect anything too much considering your great taste and updating. But it MIGHT strike someone that the layout is funny and if you have a chance to fix it, maybe you should do it now. Especially since you do have to actually gut the thing. Moving framing when you already have to gut only adds a small bit.

I love your master, just LOVE it. One small thing--if you do the second bath using the mosaic tiles, it will certainly be cheaper to have the tub filling half the wall than tiling the whole wall!
Stacey Collins
Original Author
14 years ago
last modified: 9 years ago
Thank you, firsthouse. Did you see my response to your doorknob post?

I hear you about the door/layout. Since it's not just a powder room, it feels more normal and right to have the door open to a more private space. My DH groaned when I told him but I definitely think it will improve the bathroom to move the door. I don't mind that the BA is a few more steps away from the living area, outdoors, etc.

What's your opinion on the pocket door vs. regular door?
The pocket doors are more of a PITA to install (more studs to remove and header to install) but perhaps it makes the space easier to use?

By the way, this bathroom will be 100% D.I.Y.... and we're so overwhelmed with house projects right now (DH actually just left to go plane some wood at his shop, looking very depressed because the simple project of installing two stair treads has turned into a 4 weekend debacle!) that we won't be starting work on this bath till fall.
Circus Peanut
14 years ago
last modified: 9 years ago
Stacey, I don't know if this would make sense for you, but my bathroom has the same approximate size (mine's 7' x 8.5'). We switched the toilet and sink positions so that the sightline from passing by doesn't land on the toilet. Plus, you keep the toilet further from the bath for hygiene reasons, it provides the toilet user with a modicum of privacy, and it gives you somewhere to put the toilet paper roll. This is our only bath (old house) and it works very well for the 2 of us at once, if need be.
Stacey Collins
Original Author
14 years ago
last modified: 9 years ago
circuspeanut,

That makes total sense. And I totally agree that it's a better layout.

But---- we're really having renovation burnout now. As you know we started demoing the main living area a year ago.. and we're still installing trim and living with doorless cabinets and plywood counters in the pantry. And that's spending every second of spare time on it! So, I'm trying to find a good compromise between making this cruddy bathroom work and look better, and not making huge amounts of extra work for DH. He's the plumber and electrician. He's already groaning about moving the door.... but I do think that will be a pretty dramatic improvement over the floor plan we have now. We've decided to do a new tub/shower combo, and he was relieved that that meant he didn't need to break into the 1950's drains to move the toilet. :)
macv
14 years ago
last modified: 9 years ago
Try getting into a 36" neo-angle shower stall before buying it. Take along a tape measure to be sure it meets the minimum code dimensions (usually 30" in any direction and 900 sq. in. in area). Even at the minimum dimensions it can be difficult to pick up the soap. That's what a prospective buyer will notice.
macv
14 years ago
last modified: 9 years ago
I would use the last plan that you originally posted with 2x6 studs in the plumbing wall. I don't recommend putting the vanity next to the tub/shower if it can be avoided for simpler plumbing, ease of cleaning at the floor level and ease of access to the tub/shower fixtures. The TP holder can be recessed into the vanity cabinet.
handyguyhugh
14 years ago
last modified: 9 years ago
I favor the tub/shower combo. I really like the pocket door idea but the stack position may prohibit the use because the pocket is in the wall behind the toilet. I like the idea of the guest bath entry being near the public area.
stjamesb
14 years ago
last modified: 9 years ago
I vote for tub/shower combo. If this house is a great school district, your prospective buyers would be families. Need a place to bathe the kids, dogs, etc ... I wouldn't do that in the master bath.
macv
14 years ago
last modified: 9 years ago
I thought this was the bath for your teen daughter. Why should she have to go into the kitchen area to use her bathroom?
Stacey Collins
Original Author
14 years ago
last modified: 9 years ago
Yeah, it's a toss-up for the door location, since the bath has such a polar opposite mix of uses (teen daughter and "powder room"). But I think we have pretty much decided now (thanks to all the GW input) to do the third layout: tub/shower combo but move the door around to the inner hall.

It's only a few steps more from the kitchen/LR area, and I think that the useability of the bathroom is improved substantially by moving the door. Right now, half the floor space is taken up by the door swing so you really have only about 5 sq feet in front of the toilet for ALL your bathroom activities. Moving the door effectively doubles that.
macv
14 years ago
last modified: 9 years ago
Guests looking for the powder room are usually highly motivated so they'll find it.
downsouth
14 years ago
last modified: 9 years ago
I don't know what you decided to do with your bathroom remodel, but after watching hundreds of episodes of House Hunters, there aren't many people who like a house to have a bathroom without a tub, even if there is one in the 2nd bathroom. The tub/shower combo is 100% the right way to go for resale value.
Stacey Collins
Original Author
14 years ago
last modified: 9 years ago
Thanks, downsouth! Yup, we decided to do the bath/shower combo. I appreciate everybody's input!

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