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igloochic

Kitchen 2 layout and design issues to hash over

igloochic
15 years ago

Ok so here's the beginning stage plans of kitchen #2. I'm trying to figure out layout, and which cabinets I have to purchase (I'm using existing since they're a very high quality mahogany cabinet). I'd love to hear your opinion on this :)

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Comments (31)

  • sweeby
    15 years ago
    last modified: 8 years ago

    While you've kept the island from becomming a barrier between the sink and range, I still don't see it getting a lot of use except for collecting clutter. What about eliminating the island, pulling your base cabinets away from the walls a bit, and increasing the depth of your countertops?

  • igloochic
    Original Author
    15 years ago
    last modified: 8 years ago

    Oh I should have mentioned, that island is on wheels. We've set it there because that would be a likely spot for DH to drop a pot or pan off while cooking on the range. It will be a bit different than the cabinets and on nice coasters so it rolls into the adjoining diningroom if someone wants it out of the way.

    Without that sitting there, the space between sink and range is just about 7'. I've heard people here complain about having to walk back and forth when they have isles too big so the rolling island seemed a good solution.

    I can't make the counters deeper (that I know of but will check) because I'm going to use cheap granite (the precut stuff) and I think it's uniformly 25 or so inches deep (anyone know that?) This is a rental so I have to keep within a budget (I suck at that but I want to make this one profitable so that it makes sense to do others).

    Around the Aga there is a brick surround (I'm still trying to learn to draw that) and only 10" of counter top on each side so if anyone really "cooks" I think that rolling island is going to be a must. Maybe :) Let's see what else I hear!

    I am doing lighting under the cabinets, and that one above the sink will be glass. I'm wondering if I should have the cabinet guy router out some wood from the adjoining cabinets on each side of the sink and make those glass too...

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  • rhome410
    15 years ago
    last modified: 8 years ago

    I was thinking, also, that the rolling island might be needed with so little work space by the stove. The cook could even place it at a 90 degree angle to the stove if they didn't want it behind.

    I hope you have the full 2 ft of counter over the dw left clear by your sink. In the rendering it looks like the microwave cabinet overlaps, but not in the plan view.

    The cabinet over the sink looks kind of high compared to the rest of the uppers. I'd like less difference between the two heights. JMO

    Looks like a cool space.

  • Buehl
    15 years ago
    last modified: 8 years ago

    So, will that island be easy to roll? I.e., will it be light enough to "follow you around" the kitchen while working? I'm asking b/c the refrigerator really doesn't have any landing space. The 12" space b/w the range & wall isn't enough plus it's space for the range. But, if the island can move with you, you could unload from the refrigerator and move around the kitchen taking the island with you...portable work space!

    I agree w/RHome that the cabinet above the sink looks a little high...what's the height difference?

    As to glass in the cabinets flanking the sink....I would hesitate since not only is this a rental but, unless you have a pantry somewhere else, the upper cabinets will be used not just for dishes, but also for food, etc. If those cabinets are glass, then you limit how they can be used aesthetically.

    Do you have any other cabinets to use? I think I'd like to see what the sink wall would look like if there were cabinets to the counter on the right side as well. Right now, it looks a little "off" to me.


    It's nice to see you back working on your kitchens! I hope your DS is doing better.


    HTH!

  • igloochic
    Original Author
    15 years ago
    last modified: 8 years ago

    We'll definately spend enough money on the island to ensure it's very "rollable" if that's a word. Nothing too cheap. It needs to be really functionable, and we aren't doing anything cheap in here anyhoo (the rent will be around $3,500 to $4,00 per month so I have to keep up on the quality).

    I redid the drawings, lowering the center...I do like it better. I did them twice, one with glass, one without. I had originally had them down to the counter on the right side, but DH (the cook in the family) thought we should leave more working space on the counters.

    I will have to purchase some cabinets, so it's not only a case of fill with what I have. The company (quakermaid) guarantees a match to the cabinets if you remodel...for life :) I might go with an opening on that right hand side instead of doors to the counter. This would allow room for a coffeemaker in that area, but would still bring the wood on the sides down to the granite.

    I am trying to figure out how to finish the other side drawing...it's very complicated, with brick that can't be moved (or it can be but I'm too cheap). So with that brick, yup...no landing space for the fridge at all! So I pretty much have to work that island in. I was thinking of doing it in black with a butcherblock..since the Aga is black.

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  • plants4
    15 years ago
    last modified: 8 years ago

    This is an incomplete thought because i haven't figured out where I would put the microwave but...first, I would not use an island in a galley kitchen. Moveable or not. Second, I'd consider putting the sink and the stove along the same wall (saves dripping water from vegetables being cut as you go from the cutting surface to the stove). Then you could use that space between the two brick walls for something else -- maybe the microwave and coffee pot?

    But regardless, the area where the microwave is, the countertop to the left of the dishwasher, is really the landing space for the refrigerator so I wouldn't have the microwave come down onto the counter in that space.

  • rachelle_g
    15 years ago
    last modified: 8 years ago

    I kind of like fern4's point about using the space where the microwave is as a landing spot for the fridge. How about putting the microwave at the other end of that run? By bringing only the right-hand side down to the countertop, it would make the backsplash almost symmetric around the sink, which might be a bonus?

  • malhgold
    15 years ago
    last modified: 8 years ago

    Is the range the only appliance that needs to stay where it is? Can the sink move further to the right and then you can put the frig in the corner to the left of the sink? I would think that would work better with flow, frig to sink to stove. Or, if it comes out of the frig, to sink and then on island to prep. You would also then have landing space to the right of the frig.

  • igloochic
    Original Author
    15 years ago
    last modified: 8 years ago

    Ok two more options :) I really do appreciate the input!

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    The only reason one is darker is because I found my puck lights were stuck in the ceiling and was able to move them down to the cabinets heh heh I've only been using this program for a couple of days and it shows.

    Ok now let me show you the brick wall and what I have to work with there...
    All this crap has to be ripped out:
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    KIDDING!!! Heh heh (that's kitchen number 3) But I was feeling evil...

    Back to 2:
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    Oh and these pictures were taken when the old tenents were in..they were pigs! This is not my mess (mine is more orderly heh heh)

    The brick structure is there to stay, and frankly, I like it. I've worked with it in the design and stayed with an old world feel. The stovetop will be replaced with an Aga with two slide out cabinets next to it (one on each side) 10" wide. Granite on top. The refridgerator space was built for a subzero, and will be replaced with a KA built in (same size as a subzero but a couple grand less). The space where the wall oven and micro are now will be the beverage bar with glass doors above that for both wine and coffee (that's how we use it now) but it will be bigger (about 5' long). The reason for the placement of this is that it becomes handy to the deck, which is right off the kitchen through those double doors. I wanted to make that area a bit separate so that people wouldn't interfear with the cook so much.

    Ideally it would be a whole differnt layout...but I have a budget and a great deal of work to do on the place. Moving the sink is not practicle for a few reasons...first moving the plumbing, which would be pricy, and you still end up with a brick wall inbetween you and the stove...so you still drip :) Across is easier for the cook in this scenario.

    It's really not your true gally kitchen because of the size (width) I'm just making it gally so I can have a better flow. You can see in the picture with the cooktop a bit of the current counter, which cuts the room in half, jutting out in an odd L shape. It leaves 6' for a table and chairs...which is rediculous. So I am taking out the eat in portion, and making it a long "galley" style.

  • pcjs
    15 years ago
    last modified: 8 years ago

    If this is a rental, I wouldn't bother with the island as reality is an renter isn't going to take as good care of it as you will and it will get abused big time. Most renters, although some, aren't obsessed, like we are.

  • cleo07
    15 years ago
    last modified: 8 years ago

    Wow
    Now I am really confused igloo! Where is the house with the hood and rooster mosaic??? So you are doing 2 kitchens at the same time?

    As for this kitchen...what a nice space. The surround is really cool. The AGA will keep the stone toasty warm. I hope this house is somewhere cold. I wanted an Aga but we don't have enough cold weather here in S Jersey to justify it.

    As for the sink layout, I really like the one with the symmetrical cabinets going to the counter at each end. Maybe you could make the one a baking cabinet where there is not a cabinet bottom.

    Can't wait to see everything.

  • igloochic
    Original Author
    15 years ago
    last modified: 8 years ago

    You know cleo...that baking cabinet idea is one to toss around since I have extra cabinets that are lower...hummmm I am going to have to measure a bit... (DS is waking so that will probably take place tomorrow or late tonight heh heh)

    pcjs..this is a rental that is rented furnished, to oil companies...the place is guaranteed by the oil companies, and if there is damage it comes out of the exec's pay. They take care of things :) It's not your standard rental home so I can put some bucks in without worry about losing them.

    Cleo...I am doing two at once and number three is on the wish list for purchase if the gal will ever put it on the market (long story but we're waiting to buy it). So the chicken kitchen with the massive hood is my "real" house (townhouse on the lake) this is the "rental" (townhouse off the lake but with access) and the other one is in Duluth. These two are both in Alaska, but the Aga is an american style one, which isn't on all the time (because I don't think a renter would understand them).

  • lyfia
    15 years ago
    last modified: 8 years ago

    Can you switch the oven and fridge locations? From your pics and not the drawings. Not sure what is there in your drawings. Then you could have landing space. Closer to MW if you used #1 in your last two options as the drawers there make more sense with the DW nearby.

  • ci_lantro
    15 years ago
    last modified: 8 years ago

    What about building a niche in the wall at the end of the kitchen for the microwave? (Concealed by some kind of cabinetry in the dining room?)

  • jejvtr
    15 years ago
    last modified: 8 years ago

    igloo
    Love following your threads!

    I'm a bit weary -

    After a few up/down, up/down all around scrolls - I had a thought - The brick is bothering me from a design perspective sheerly - it really is an impediment - so my thought was - If you are spending some $$$ for an Island - why not get an estimate for brick removal - see where your money is best spent

    If you can get rid of the brick you are no longer limited so much in a good floorplan/design/function - good landing spaces and prep areas - you won't need the island...

    Another thought - I would imagine most of the renters are not cooks - what if you budgeted less for range and beefed up other things the oil types may like - LCD TV, fancy micro wave - wine fridge - To me "cookers" aren't phased by flashy - but by function - people who don't really cook - like gizmo/flashy/fun/cool things - I think oil tycoons - If so, you would have to think outside the box - if I recall you are a function person..

    For lack of better thoughts here's a link that might inspire cool stuff

    Just some random thoughts

    best of luck

    Here is a link that might be useful: I want that

  • rhome410
    15 years ago
    last modified: 8 years ago

    Am I confusing it with something else, or is an AGA the French top sort of range that works differently than 'regular' ranges? I'd want something user friendly and fairly intuitive for the people staying there, something that they wouldn't be afraid to use...Didn't you say it was for traveling executives that are kind of in and out...Longer term than for a hotel, but shorter than 'regular' renters? --in other words, people who want to be able to use it *now* and without a big learning curve or suspecting there'd be one. Maybe I'm totally off base about the type of range...

  • cheri127
    15 years ago
    last modified: 8 years ago

    Sorry jejvtr, but I have to disagree on some points. I think renters are wowed by cool and flashy, but I think the rolling island would fit that description. Having lived in two apartments as an expatriate, I can say that NO thought whatsoever went into whether the kitchen was well designed. But, had I walked in and seen an Aga and rolling island, I'd have been won over. There's no way I'd consider removing that brick if I didn't have to, either. I think a wine cooler is a great idea, though. Another thing to get someone's attention. How competitive is the temporary housing market where you live, igloo? When we were in Frankfurt, it was a total sellers market and I guess my opinions are based on that experience.

  • igloochic
    Original Author
    15 years ago
    last modified: 8 years ago

    Ok in the interest of discussion and LET'S BE CLEAR!!! This is not an accurate rendition because I don't know how to make the brick arch yet (which houses the hood) nor how to get the brick above the top of the fridge as it is supposed to be...so: Oh and the backsplash behind the stove is also wrong...but I'm working on that:

    {{gwi:1799293}}

    No I can't switch the stove and fridge. It's a professional size built in (replacing a subzero) and fits exactly where the space is with the white fridge in the bad pics above. The water line is there, and the space is too small. And in the stove location, there's a vent a hood built into the arch so again, no moving it :)

    I'm already including a wine fridge, sauna, nice microwave, LCD TV's etc throughout the house (there is another smaller kitchen being built in the family room as well). The aga is already in the garage (It was on sale) so it's here to stay..and really, I needed to go "old world" given the brick. And...to be clear...yes it would cost to remove the brick, but frankly...I love the brick and think it will be gorgeous when the kitchen isn't funky.

    Ok technically we're "oil tycoons" heh heh (ok we're in the business) so we do know this market. They all entertain quite frequently. The shortcomings of this unit are the smaller dining room (only seats 8 really) and the smaller kitchen, so we're making a huge deck off the kitchen (we're bound by the rules of the condo association for it to be where it is) and we're making the kitchen a chef's kitchen, since these silly tycoons usually do expect a very nice kitchen. Think about what you'd expect at $4G's a month...

    Ok keep the comments coming...what about the new microwave location??

  • pcjs
    15 years ago
    last modified: 8 years ago

    Humm... I'm going to blame you for not packing (going away for a week)....I like the 20:09 #2 for the microwave - having both cabinets to the countertop look too closed in but I prefer the microwave on that wall as next to the oven is too busy plus I like the countertop space to put things on when you take stuff out of the oven. Stick with the AGA - I love those - they are so pretty. If I cared about an oven, that is what I'd pick in blue. And, I'd keep the brick, but paint it - don't like the red color. I'm still not a fan of the island.

  • rhome410
    15 years ago
    last modified: 8 years ago

    PAINT THE BRICK?! An absolute crime! ;-)

    I love it and how it will look with the 'right' appliances in the alcoves, and I love it natural.

    I prefer, functionally, to have a microwave near the fridge and sink...and since you have the room, that's where I'd put it. (as in the original layout)

  • pcjs
    15 years ago
    last modified: 8 years ago

    LOL, I hate that color brick, sorry, but I'm not a brick fan either! But, I do like it as it is different.

  • bmorepanic
    15 years ago
    last modified: 8 years ago

    i don't know why, but that brick makes me think of bewitched or Rob and Laura Petrie. Perhaps its the age of the ovens...

    Are you thinking of an aga legacy?

    I would not see the island as an advantage - its only 18" wide and the aisles will be less than 30".

  • igloochic
    Original Author
    15 years ago
    last modified: 8 years ago

    Heh heh ok this is a test...how many questions can I answer...first it's a Legacy Aga (works like a normal range...not the always on ones).

    Second...I like the red brick, and will work with the color. I'll probably pull out some of the creamy tan tones and venetian plaster the room. I'll use the whites by using a white subway tile.

    I wouldn't even consider painting it because I'm too lazy :oP And I do like the brick as is :)

    The brick looks like a 1970's high end kitchen...like bewitched...because that's exactly what this was, but when I finish it, I promise bewitched will go away :) I know there is another GWeber doing a new brick enclosure just like mine this year ;)

    cheri the market for temporary rentals here is huge. Without a contract I can easily fill it for five months during the summer/autumn and cash flow the year. But we're more likely to take an annual contract (we've had a couple requests since our original thought of being very short term) and we'll do that with an oil company. As you noted, most rentals, especially short term, aren't user friendly. We want ours (we plan on ten of them eventually) to be first on everyone's minds when they're looking for housing for their execs. With that in mind, we'll have a full bar down on the first level with a high tech office, all wireless. We have two fireplaces, the "gourmet" heh heh kitchen, and three bedrooms upstairs all furnished with either really nice furniture that's new, or antiques, all in an eclectic (no one style so no one hates it) decor. All of the bathrooms (3.5) will be higher end as well, and we had the sauna reconditioned. We'll add a pool table and poker table downstairs in the gentlemen's parlor. We're going for splashy and elegant :)

    Now bmorepanic...do you think 7' isles are a better option?? I wanted to do the rolling piece because 7' is too wide...and I can't shrink the house without the neighbor complaining :oP

  • pcjs
    15 years ago
    last modified: 8 years ago

    The rolling to me looks cheap and an afterthought - either put an island in there as a permanent fixture or leave it out all together. The idea of it is better than the reality in a smaller kitchen. Personally, I'd roll it out of there and put it somewhere else until I left but we have a small house so I'd spend more on the big stuff like new cabinets and windows and less on that stuff.

  • cheri127
    15 years ago
    last modified: 8 years ago

    DH is looking for a new job. You're tempting me to move to Alaska just so we can live in one of your rentals!!!!

  • ci_lantro
    15 years ago
    last modified: 8 years ago

    If that's the micro to the left of the range, then I like it. With the brick chopping up the space anyway, that's a good place to tuck the MW. But think I would go with an overcounter MW to free up countertop space. That said, what I don't like, from a functional standpoint, is chopping up the space on the sink side with bringing cabinets down to countertop level. Also, I should add that I'm a bit claustrophic so I need to see nice stretches of countertop. And, given your intended market, maximizing every bit of storage opportunity probably isn't top of the priority list.

    Do like the flexibility of the rolling island. Work table for the kitchen or serving cart on the deck or in the dining room. Also think it's a Wow item and keeper idea.

  • venice_2008
    15 years ago
    last modified: 8 years ago

    I have a 7' aisle in my galley kitchen, and I do find it a bother to go continually back and forth across the aisle. In my remodel, I am ensuring that prep + cooking are on the same side. That said, it's not unworkable.

    I like the idea of a rolling island, and I don't think it need look cheap at all. Boos has some fantabulous-looking thick butcher block topped open islands, which I think would work very well with the brick (which I think looks great and should definitely stay unpainted).

    The other thing about the island is that with the demographic you're targetting, it seems to me that they would appreciate it more than not, as I imagine they will be entertaining a fair bit, and this would give a "cocktails and elbows" drop zone while the tenant(s) cook.

    So, pros and cons -- no perfect solution.

  • cotehele
    15 years ago
    last modified: 8 years ago

    Dawn,
    Y'all know my tastes and requirements for a kitchen aren't standard. So, of course, I like the movable island and the MW by the coffee bar. I think MWs usually are for a just for a quick warm-up and are rarely used for actual cooking. What better place to warm up sweet roll and chocolate chip cookies or make pop corn? The location keeps people out of the kitchen and is handy to the deck. Is there a small fridge there too?

    The island makes everything very accessible because it can be a landing space anywhere it is needed. And, no doubt, your design will be eye candy. Any renter who doesn't like the island can roll it out of the way or out of the room. As there is only one sink, 7' is a long way from the Aga with a pot that needs draining. A short turn around to the island and another to the sink would be easier and less messy.

    I like the brick, too. As long as it is there, make the most of it. Sorry I don't remember whose kitchen this is. The arched brick, pot rack and inset shelves creatively make it a focal point as well as very functional.

  • lyfia
    15 years ago
    last modified: 8 years ago

    Again can you switch the fridge to the location of the ovens are in your existing plan?

  • igloochic
    Original Author
    15 years ago
    last modified: 8 years ago

    Oh thank you so much for posting that other brick kitchen :) I knew there was one out there since I'd researched it so long ago! You know...a little wine fridge in that microwave/coffee bar actually would be easy to do. I can do one upstairs (kitchen) and one downstairs in the man lounge :)

    Cheri :) Come on up! The weather's fine! ::looking outside at the six new inches of snow:: lovely actually...gorgeous LOL

    The micro location as in the last drawing is actually where it is now (in a built in oven and micro combo) and really it's handy there. We're not micro cookers, but if we were there would be a bit of open space there to land a dish, or right behind on the island. I think I'm going to go with it there and raise the cabinets up on the other side for more counter space.

    Venice thanks for the perspective in using a 7' isle kitchen. DH is the big cook in our kitchen, and he just isn't a fan of an isle that big. If this kitchen didn't have the opposing doors, we'd just work in a real island or do a U shaped kitchen, but given the circumstances, it works better with an island on wheels. And it can be rolled outside as well as inside which would be handy during parties. Heck I might get one for the deck :) We'll have a big smoker/bbq out there anyhoo.

    Lyfia LOL I have so many stoves and fridges I got confused :oP You mean the "current" stove not the future one heh heh

    Well still that poses a problem because the brick in the fridge location is made specifically to squeeze right around the fridge. The brick does not go all the way back on the wall as shown here, instead it's just on the outter edge so if I don't put a fridge where the fridge is, I would have to rebuild that side of the brick wall so you'd have a nice wall in there...verses cinderblock which is what you see after about five inches of brick. And I'd have to move the water location, which would be a bear with the brick enclosure I'm told. I had thought of a second sink where I currently have the microwave...but that high cost to move the water over there was prohibitive to that idea. My budget for this remodel is $150,000 but I would like to keep it below $100 if I can because that leaves me room to sell immediately if I want and still pull in some cash on the place. The $150 I'd have to work off for a year to see profit.

    Of course it would be easier if cheri could get her bumm up here and rent when it's open in July/August :oP heh heh

    I know that budget seems pretty large, but the place needs quite a bit of work. We need to do floor throughout the entire 2600 sq ft (we'll be doing hardwood), quite a bit of drywall work, remove wallpaper from 30' walls in the living area, and upstairs, texture those walls, paint, rebuild the stairway with wood and change out the balastars, remove a ceiling and a wall in the bottom level, and reface a fireplace down there, new kitchen, new deck, redo 3.5 bathrooms from the ground up, yank out a pink brick entry floor, redo the laundry room, new doors, change out all trim, replace a few windows, replace the furnace and hot water heater, and the baseboard hot water heaters, oh and furnish and decorate it for executives :( It's a lot!

  • lyfia
    15 years ago
    last modified: 8 years ago

    LOL - igloo, I can understand the budget. I'm just thinking some landing space next to the fridge would be nice and if you put it where the ovens are in this pic (taking up more space of course). You could easily run a copper line over from the current location by drilling a few small holes in the back of the brick/cinder block walls to pull it over along the bottom. Just put a on/off handle near the new location of the fridge.

    Then you could do a cabinet pantry or cupboard look thing where the existing fridge is to hide the cinderblock.

    BTW I like the brick and would love to have that in my house.

    {{gwi:1799291}}