Soundproofing pipe from 2nd floor toilet - what to use?
annab6
15 years ago
Featured Answer
Sort by:Oldest
Comments (17)
clg7067
15 years agoyeomama67
15 years agoRelated Discussions
Height of Joist between 1st floor ceiling and the 2nd floor?
Comments (15)There is no absolute set answer. The necessary joist height (thickness) depends in part on the distances you are trying to span. It also depends on the load you will be putting on the joist, how widely you space your joists, and the type of wood your joists are made of. A good grade of 2X10 lumber might be used for joists spaced 16 inches apart where the longest clear span is no more than say 15 feet. If you needed to span a room that is 20 feet across with lumber of the same quality, you might need to use 2x12s that were spaced no wider than every 12 inches. You mentioned a 7000 square foot home. I would lay odds that you intend to have large open rooms downstairs. That fact alone means you will need thicker joists. The whole issue of space between the floors for can lights and ductwork is secondary compared to making sure that your joists will support the load that is put on them. This is NOT an area that a novice should be playing around in. I have an undergraduate minor in physics and despite having recently read far more about joist loads and span table that I ever wanted to, and I can barely comprehend the subject. I would NEVER trust myself to actually try to determine the proper size joists for a house without help from a structural engineer. And frankly, I rather doubt most architects - who are only required to take a very minimal amount of physics to get their degrees - really understand span load tables either. I suspect (pray) they confer with qualified structural engineers whenever they are designing anything out of the ordinary. But, let me give you two examples and tell a cautionary tale... In our current house, the joists are 2x12 lumber. (I know b/c several years ago I repaired the sheetrock in the dining room after we had a leaking pipe.) However, our current house is a very simple rectangular shape of only 1900 sq feet. It has a central staircase with rooms on either side. The joists between the 1st and 2nd floor run perpendicular to the staircase and the widest room they have to span is only 14.5 ft wide. The HVAC unit also sits in the middle of the house (behind and just to one side of the staircase) so the AC ducts run parallel to the joists (i.e., each duct lies between two joists) to reach the rooms on either side of the staircase. A soffit over my kitchen cabinets houses a duct that runs perpendicular to the joists from the HVAC unit to the back of the house. Parallel ducts T out of the top of this to reach the rooms that are at the back of the house. No holes had to be cut thru the joists to accomodate the ductwork. Meanwhile, all our upstairs plumbing is centralized over a single "wet wall" so all the drainage pipes run straight down. Again, no need to cut holes thru those 12 inch joists. The only holes drilled through our 12 inch joists are little tiny ones that accomodate electrical wiring. Now the second example and the cautionary tale... Our new home - still under construction - is a 3200 sq ft house with a much more complex design with much larger rooms downstairs. I will also have two large cast-iron bathtubs upstairs and wanted to be sure their weight, when filled, would not be a problem. My architect and his engineer specified 18" deep open-web trusses spaced 16 inches on center. To save money however, my builder elected to use 18 inch i-beams joists made of oriented strand board (OSB) instead. (Actually OSB is stronger than real lumber when used for ibeams.) The engineer at the lumber store where my builder bought his lumber package told the builder he could place safely place the OSB ibeam joists 24 inches apart. I was out of town for several days while framing was going on so first time I saw the i-beam trusses, my builder was already framing up the second floor. I immediatley insisted that he stop what he was doing and verify with his engineers that he would be able to cut large enough holes thru the ibeams to accomodate my HVAC ducts BEFORE he went any further. I should have just told my builder he had to follow the specs but I was trying to be reasonable. I told him that IF holes could be cut through those ibeam joists large enough to accomodate HVAC ducts without compromising their structural integrity, he could go ahead and use them. But, if not, he needed to back up, take down the second floor framing, and replace the ibeams with the open web trusses specified in the plans. Two days later, in one of many many lies he told me, my builder said he had checked with his engineer and that the HVAC ducts would be "no problem"... that I should "trust him" and "let him do his job" because he was a professional. Foolishly, I did so. Later - after my house was fully framed, sheathed, roofed, shingled, sided with Hardie, had all windows and doors installed, and the exterior was painted - I learned for the first time what my builder meant by "no problem." It meant he had unilaterally decided that he would move the two HVAC units and ductwork up into the attic so holes would not have to be cut thru the ibeams for the ductwork! He completely ignored the fact that this decision meant the HVAC would no longer be in the heated and cooled envelope of the house which would increase my utility bills AND require him to purchase larger and more costly HVAC units; that running flex duct down from the attic to the first floor rooms required chases which took significant amounts of space out of each of my bedroom closets; and that positioning two HVAC units and a spiderweb of flex duct in the attic made it completely impossible to ever consider putting in an attic bedroom - which was the whole reason I had elected to have a 12/12 stick built roof in the first place! But my cautionary tale continues... It then turned out that the necessary holes for the plumbing drainage pipes was too much for the joists! In some cases the joists span distances of 25 feet. Once the plumber cut a 4 inch diameter hole through several joists to accomodate a toilet drainage pipe, the joists started bowing inward. I noticed rather quickly that the sub-floors on the second floor were no longer level. My builder tried to tell me that it was "normal" for the subfloors to bow a little but that putting the final layer of flooring on top would correct the problem! HAH! By this point, I was long past trusting anything the man said. We are building out in the country where no inspections are required except for septic systems but I had included in my contract a provision allowed me to call in an independant third-party inspector at any point. The contract stated that the third-party inspector's finding and recommendations regarding the safety or structural integrity of any element in the house would be controling. In other words, if the inspector said something needed to be done, builder had to do it at his cost. The inspector required my builder to go back and put an additional 18 inch i-beam joist between every pair of existing joists that had had a hole cut thru it. So now the joists are spaced every 12 inches instead of every 24 inches and the second floor no longer bows. I don't know what it cost my builder to put in the additional joists and then to replace the drain pipe he had to cut... but I'd lay odds the total cost was more than if he'd used the open web trusses in the first place. In case you're wondering, we ultimately fired the builder and filed suit against him after even more issues reflecting his incompetance and dishonesty. Now I'm the GC to finish the build... and believe me, I'm relying heavily on my third-party inspector to help me get things done right! The bottom line, simply by asking "10 inches or 18 inches? which one is the correct answer?" you reveal that you have a lot to learn before you proceed. You might start by reading this link. Here is a link that might be useful: Tutorial on joist design...See MoreSound from 2nd floor Rec room
Comments (4)We have our master (with hardwood floors) directly over our living room (10ft ceilings) and I can DEFINITELY hear DH walking around up there when I'm downstairs. It doesn't particularly bother me because it is just the two of us but if we had more people living in the house, I'd definitely want some soundproofing between the floors. When my brothers come to visit with their kids, things sometimes get a bit noisy. Guest bedrooms are over the kitchen, dining, and library areas and my brothers kids sound like troops of elephants tromping around upstairs. So we instituted a socks-only upstairs policy when they were here. That helped to reduce how loud their footsteps sounded AND helped protect my wood floors. LOL! I'm sure if we had carpets upstairs, it wouldn't be nearly as loud but, if I had teenagers living here all the time, I doubt that carpets and carpet padding would suffice to muffle their noise enough for me. I'm assuming that your 2nd floor rec room will sometimes be used at the same time as your 1st floor living room. (Maybe adults downstairs and kids playing upstairs?) If so, I'd definitely look into additional noise proofing...or at least spring for extra thick/dense carpet padding....See MoreClose off 2nd floor catwalk to soundproof?
Comments (7)No, it wouldn’t solve the problem, that would require a whole lot more than just building a wall because most noise travels through the stuff inside the walls and under the floors. I recommend a noise machine in their rooms for now and trying to get them used to more noise at an early age as you add more blessings. Personally, I had 5 kids in 4.5 years (yes, there is a set of twins, LOL!) and I found it helpful for my newborns to take their daytime naps in a bassinet in the family room where all the noise was. My kids are all teens and young adults now... it’s funny to hear them reminisce about bedtime when they were little, they fell asleep with certain familiar sounds, in their case there was a long time period where hubby and I would pop in our Seinfeld dvds when they went to bed. Hahaha! It’s a good memory for them now....See MoreMoving washer/dryer from basement to 2nd floor master bath?
Comments (13)We did it in our old Victorian house for pennies. We turned a closet in the bathroom that was behind the tub (!!!) into a laundry closet with a stackable. Complete DIY job and I would definitely do it again. Our only "problem" was that the pipes up there couldn't handle the flow of water as fast as it came out of the washer. So the draining washer water backed up into the bathtub, which filled with about 6 inches of dirty water during a load until draining out. It never caused the tub to look dirty or left a ring or anything. We just lived with it as a quirk and I absolutely LOVED not having to lug clothes up and down to the yucky old basement via the yucky old non-standard basement stairs. The draining is something to really understand before you start demolishing your setup. We had no problem selling that house--everyone wants convenient laundry access and no one cared about the draining into the tub thing in this Victorian town. The hardest part was getting the stackable up the curving Victorian stairs. My husband and his friend almost toppled and killed themselves doing that. Just make sure you have a disaster plan in place--as for any 2nd floor laundry-- if something breaks or overflows, you don't want water all over going into the ceiling of the floor below. Use the best fittings that last (no plastic), the tray, etc.....See Morefrodo_2009
15 years agomightyanvil
15 years agomightyanvil
15 years agodavidro1
15 years agoannab6
15 years agofrodo_2009
15 years agochairthrower
15 years agopinkpowertools
15 years agodavidro1
15 years agoovermyhead08
15 years agodavidro1
15 years agofrodo_2009
15 years agoRae
5 years agoHU-972251420
2 years ago
Related Stories
REMODELING GUIDESSee What You Can Learn From a Floor Plan
Floor plans are invaluable in designing a home, but they can leave regular homeowners flummoxed. Here's help
Full StorySTORAGE2 Weeks + $2,000 = 1 Savvy Storage Shed
This homeowner took backyard storage and modern style into his own hands, building a shed with reclaimed redwood and ingenuity
Full StoryFLOORS5 Benefits to Concrete Floors for Everyday Living
Get low-maintenance home flooring that creates high impact and works with home styles from traditional to modern
Full StoryPOWDER ROOMSNow Arriving on Platform 2, a Playful Powder Room
Subway graphics from a New York City station add unexpected depth and humor to a tiny half bath in California
Full StoryHOMES AROUND THE WORLDHousehold Habits and Customs to Borrow From Other Countries
Discover why salt may be the perfect house-warming gift, how to clean rugs in snow and why you should invest in a pair of ‘toilet slippers’
Full StoryBATHROOM DESIGNClever Bathroom Layout Gives 2 Sisters Shared and Private Spaces
Each girl gets her own vanity, toilet and door to the shower, making for smoother mornings
Full StoryBATHROOM DESIGNDesign Takeaways From the Most Popular Powder Rooms of 2017
Features such as patterned floors, mosaic-covered walls and floating vanities can turn a powder room into a jewel box
Full StoryBATHROOM DESIGNNew This Week: 3 Bathrooms With Showstopping Floor Tile
Caution: These stunning tile collections might give you neck cramps from staring at the floor for too long
Full StoryVACATION HOMESHouzz Tour: From Fixer-Upper to Family Ski Retreat
Budget-conscious remodeling over 2 years gives a family a comfortable second home in the mountains
Full StoryBEFORE AND AFTERSA Boston Kitchen and Bath Go From Dreary to Darling
See how a $25,000 renovation budget gave 2 outdated spaces in a small Massachusetts apartment a brand-new look
Full Story
raam