In this case, it may have been ok to start with the sellers agent, and if necessary sign a short contract that would allow her to answer questions.

Roselvr, the agent asked her to sign a dual agency, she didnt want to. The agent had no choice but to be a sellers agent at that point. Anything other and she was in jeopardy of losing her license. If you read the OPs post, the agent answered plenty of questions. Who owned the house, how long, when they moved, that the house had an offer that fell thru. It sounds like the only question she didnt answer was "how much would they accept". I'd like to know exactly how she wasnt accomodating. Im not quite sure why she wouldnt provide the comps except that the OP says there arent any, so a listing price would have had to be figured out in a different way.

I am not saying that I think anyone should not use a buyers agent. I think a buyers agent is definitely the way to go. What I am saying is, if you want a representative, do it from the beginning. Don't call the listing agent to turn around and write the offer with someone else.

"Do you think if the original poster called the listing agent and said, "I would like to view this house, but if we like it, we're going to be bringing in our own agent", she would have taken the time to show them? No, she would have said, please have your buyers agent representative show you the house. No one likes to work for free. "

Linda, we've been over this time and time again. The listing agent would not be working for free. If she shows the house to someone and that person buys the house - - even if that person makes the offer through their own buyer's agent, then she is going to get her 3% as the listing agent. How is that working for free? The seller is paying her 3% to market the house. In my mind - - and I guarantee you pretty much in the mind of most everyone else who isn't a real estate agent - - that would include showing the house to prospective buyers. Only a real estate agent could come up with the convoluted logic that having to show the house to someone else's client while still pocketing say $15,000 on a $500k sale is "working for free."

Showing homes to your client is the buyer's agent's job.

More & more, I see verbiage in the MLS stating that if the listing agent shows the property & the buyer's agent writes the contract, the listing agent charges the buyer's agent a certain amount.

Only a real estate agent could come up with the convoluted logic that having to show the house to someone else's client while still pocketing say $15,000 on a $500k sale is "working for free."

Only someone who doesnt understand the business would think it was ok to show someone elses client a property, however,
We're not talking about showing the house to someone elses client, (which I wouldnt do either),we are not talking about a $500,000 sale, it is a $165,000 sale. She isnt even a qualified buyer, didnt want to sign anything, only wanted to "see the house". Yep, that sounds like something most agents would drop everything for.

Bethesdaman, it seems real estate agents on this forum have to constantly defend what they do. You dont have to agree with it, you dont even have to like it. Its the way THEY do their business and it is "their business". It is from years of trial and error and figuring out what works. Dropping everything, running out to show a house because someone has to see it, not only isnt cost affective, 99% of the time, does nothing but wastes your time. This "potential buyer" usually doesnt turn into a client (by her own admission, she doesnt want to commit to an agent, it could be years before she finds a house)it doesnt usually sell the house either.

Before I take someone in my car, I ask them to fax their pre qual letter to me. Chances are, someone calling each and every listing agent isnt going to want to fax everyone their pre approval letter. If they don't, thats ok, I dont show them anything. I avoid alot of lookers and unqualified buyers that way. Also, my sellers appreciate me not bringing unqualified buyers to their home.

More & more, I see verbiage in the MLS stating that if the listing agent shows the property & the buyer's agent writes the contract, the listing agent charges the buyer's agent a certain amount.

Apparently listing agents are writing that into the MLS because there are buyer's agents out there promising to rebate part of their commission to the buyers, but only if they don't have to show them too many homes. For example, the buyers will get a larger rebate if the agent only has to show them 3 homes. Their rebate decreases with the amount of work that the buyer's agent has to do. So they encourage buyers to have listing agents do their work for them.

Linda, where are you from, if I may ask? Just curious. The listing agent's name is Linda. :-)

I'm a little confused. You mentioned on another thread that if a buyer has an agent but wants to buy a house that agent has listed, they should find another agent to handle the sale. I'm not sure why it's okay to waste days or weeks of that agent's time and then not use him/her for the sale, but it's so offensive to waste one hour of this listing agent's time, even though she knew exactly what she was getting into when we began.

"Before I take someone in my car, I ask them to fax their pre qual letter to me...I avoid alot of lookers and unqualified buyers that way."

That seems silly and short-sighted to me. First, IMHO, pre qual letters are not worth the paper upon which they are printed; the prospective buyer can fabricate everything as info is not confirmed for pre qual. Second, you've probably tuned off any number of potential buyers by asking for the letter unless this is common in your area. I have never been asked to show a prequal letter prior to looking with a realtor for the first time and I'd be put off if a realtor insisted. I know I am qualified to buy anything I want, but I don't carry around a pre qual letter to prove it. My banker would probably die laughing if I told him some agent wanted a letter before letting me in the car. Agents ask me regularly for my business, and if one treated my that way, I'd laugh and call a (savvy) agent.

I'm simply not going to run out and get prequalified every time I want to view a house. I know I can get financing. I have a FICO score of 791, and am debt free. We did get preapproved on a loan several months ago, but ended up deciding not to buy the house, and we didn't want to continue extending the deadline when there was nothing else on the market to interest us. We have just contacted a mortgage broker about financing for this house, but only because we're sure we will want to put in a bid on it. I would never get preapproved before even viewing the house.

As far as contacting dozens of listing agents and asking them to view homes, this is not our habit. This is the first time we've ever talked to an agent at all. The homes we've looked at before this (only two) have been FSBO. Open houses in this rural area are unheard of, so there's no other way to get a viewing than to commit to an agent or ask the listing agent to let you see it.

The attitude that house shoppers must "prove themselves worthy" to even look at a house is a little baffling, in a market where buyers aren't exactly beating down the door with their offers.

"Bethesdaman, it seems real estate agents on this forum have to constantly defend what they do. You dont have to agree with it, you dont even have to like it. Its the way THEY do their business and it is 'their business'."

Linda, first of all, I'd like to make a couple of things perfectly clear. I do not have anything against you personally or real estate agents in general. I love your contributions to this board and think that you and the other agents are an incredible asset here. Secondly, you may recall that on more than one occasion I have defended you from personal attacks and I have also recommended to first-time sellers and others who want to save money by going FSBO that they would probably be better off hiring a real estate agent to gain access to their professional expertise.

This issue that we are debating here is one in which you and I have a philosophical difference. And once again, I completely disagree with your position as stated in the sentence I quoted from your previous post. It may very well be your "business," but you've been hired to do a job by another person and as such you should perform the functions that that person wants performed. It is as simple as that. I make very clear when I interview agents exactly what I expect from them - - and that includes showing my house to prospective buyers even if they are not going to be able to collect both ends of the commission. If they don't want to do that, then they are not going to be my listing agent. When I hire someone in any profession to do a job for me, I expect them to do the job to my specifications. I do not expect them to limit their role to what they perceive it to be because it is "their business."

Linda, where are you from, if I may ask? Just curious. The listing agent's name is Linda. :-)
I'm a little confused. You mentioned on another thread that if a buyer has an agent but wants to buy a house that agent has listed, they should find another agent to handle the sale

Angie, I'd like to see the post where I said this. Perhaps you're taking something out of context.

That seems silly and short-sighted to me. First, IMHO, pre qual letters are not worth the paper upon which they are printed,Agents ask me regularly for my business, and if one treated my that way, I'd laugh and call a (savvy) agent.

Quip a "savvy" agent as you say, would know which pre quals are worth the paper they are written on. You're right, some arent worth much, others are worth Gold. The only agents in my area that take unqualified buyers out are the agents who are trying to get their business off the ground. If you were the seller in this case, would you rather your agent continued to bring buyers thru the house that couldnt afford it? Having a pre qualified buyer avoids that. I will say there are times when talking to people you can get a feel for if they are a qualified buyer or not and each buyer is handeled alittle differently. If someone told me, "I know what I can afford, I don't need a pre qual, I would pass". Reminds me of a client whom I just sold a house. He called on a $425,000 house. I asked for his prequal, it was some print out off the internet. I had him call one of the banks I refer. The guy made $40,000 a year and had a credit score of 540. I sold him a much lower priced house. Had I shown him the $425,000 house, he would have never found anything he liked because he looked out of his price range. Like I said, its not cost effective, and its just a bad way to do business. Perhaps in areas where it takes 2 weeks to close a sale its worth the time to just take a buyer out without getting verification, but in an area where it takes 2-3 months to close, its a complete waste of time.

The attitude that house shoppers must "prove themselves worthy" to even look at a house is a little baffling, in a market where buyers aren't exactly beating down the door with their offers.

Angie what do you think your new buyers agent is doing right now having you call his bank for financing before you go back to see the house?

I'm simply not going to run out and get prequalified every time I want to view a house.

You dont have to. One letter is usually good for six months. BTW, Im in NY, I'm not the listing agent on the house you're looking at.

When I hire someone in any profession to do a job for me, I expect them to do the job to my specifications.

Badman,if you know better on how to get the job done, why hire the agent at all? In your scenario, your agent is showing your house to "anyone" that calls, nosey neighbor, curious looker, unqualified buyer, perhaps a theif. By asking for a pre qual, your agent is sure they are a "real buyer", they are a qualified buyer and are truly interested in your home. I can't tell you how many times sellers complain about agents bringing "the wrong people" to their house. (split level house to someone in a wheelchair comes to mind right now). Im pretty confident my sellers would want only pre qualified or approved buyers coming thru their house, not just any Tom, Dick or Harry that calls and wants to see it.

Linda, you keep setting up this strawman argument of having to show the house to unqualified buyers. Who said anything about showing the house to unqualified buyers? Besides you of course. That was never part of the discussion. You want to prequalify them? Fine. Now, does that mean you will show QUALIFIED prospective buyers your listing under the exact same scenario we've been discussing ,i.e, you won't be collecting both ends of the commission if they buy the house? I didn't think so! So don't throw up that prequalification requirement straw man just so you can try to prevail in this debate. That was irrelevant to our basic discussion and you know it.

Badman, if you want to go back to the original conversation, it was "that a buyers agent should be used to make an offer on a property rather than using the listing agent. (YOUR WORDS)

Now, if you're asking if I will show someone elses client my listing. No, I dont do that, thats what "their buyers agent representative is for".

Im not trying to prevail in this debate. I dont have to. It is the way I do my business.

The reason "qualified buyers" came into the conversation is that if I am running out with every person that calls to see a house, I am not showing the house to pre qualified buyers. If someone elses client wants to see one of my listings, I cant think of any reason to show it to them. If they are going to buy the house, they can buy the house with their agent, why do I need to spend my time "selling" the house to someone elses client? Your answer would be, because its your job is to sell the house, my answer is, I work for MY clients, not someone elses. You see, there is a system in place that works. It isnt as black and white as you try to make it.

Badman,if you know better on how to get the job done, why hire the agent at all?

Badman, if you want to go back to the original conversation, it was "that a buyers agent should be used to make an offer on a property rather than using the listing agent.

You know, Linda, the first time you referred to me as "Badman" I gave you the benefit of the doubt and assumed it was some sort of strange typo where you left out EIGHT letters from my SN (ethesdam). I know, highly improbable, but I figured it was at least conceivable. Now that you've done it a second time there can be no doubt that it was intentional. I am really disappointed that this discussion has devolved into petty, sophomoric namecalling. I had thought you were more mature than that. I guess I was mistaken. I see now, there is no reason to continue to attempt to debate you on this philosophical difference we have. I hope that you treat your clients with more respect.

Madman, I do apologize, it was not intentional. I had only noticed yesterday that your screenname was "madman". I've always thought it was Bethesdaman which was too long to type. When I noticed the "madman" it was shorter and easier to remember and type. The "bad" man was just a dyslexic thing in my head that I thought I was remembering until you pointed it out. I truly was not calling you names and only thought I was taking a small part of your screename. Again, I apologize.

Linda, the agent I've contacted to show us the house did not request or even suggest prequalification. He simply gave me the name of the person he uses so we could get started on it. (I had told him we wanted to get things in order before presenting an offer.) We're scheduled to see the house tomorrow, and I won't have a prequal letter to show him. He never mentioned it at all when he called to arrange the showing.

Having said that, it's your right to run your business however you see fit. I can see the logic in not wanting to show homes (especially for non-clients) to non-motivated buyers. I'm sure real estate agents get calls from gawkers all the time. I just hope there is some "happy medium" between the two extremes.

angie -- I hope you will come back to report on your viewing. Hate to leave a story before "The End". Good luck!

angie, however the agent asked for it doesnt matter. The fact is, he referred you to a bank that is running your credit and will let him know if you can afford to buy this house. He probably already got his answer which is why you are seeing the house tomorrow. In my area, its not extreme to request a pre approval letter, its customary.

I hope in the end you get the house that you love.

"The "bad" man was just a dyslexic thing in my head that I thought I was remembering until you pointed it out. I truly was not calling you names and only thought I was taking a small part of your screename. Again, I apologize."

Apology accepted, Linda. I thought that was out of character for you, which is why I didn't mention it the first time you used it.

Happened to find this post on buyer agency.

http://www.trulia.com/voices/General_Area/As_a_consumer_in_NY_Would_you_use_a_Buyers_agent-4011--

Linda, we didn't call the bank that the agent referred to us. We ended up deciding to go with a mortgage broker that several friends/family recommended. So the agent has no idea whether or not we are qualified, other than what I have told him myself. But no matter. I am in a very small southern town where people are generally more easy-going. I often forget how different the culture is in other parts of the country. I think that does play into things, on both sides of the coin.

Thank you all so much, and I will be sure to let you know how this all plays out. (I imagine I'll have a million more questions before we're finished!)

Angie, this post really got sidetracked. I'm not at all surprised that it doesnt matter to this particular agent whether or not you're pre qualified. He was handed a buyer who already has a house in mind on a silver platter. He would be an idiot to push for a pre qual at this point. He has nothing to lose. I question whether or not you will get a good representation from someone who doesnt seem to have any ethics about how you came to him.

I believe the listing agent was the procuring cause in this case. I am curious to see if the two of them work out a deal with the commission, although, I dont know if you would even know if that happens or if this even goes thru at all. She is most definitely not going to be happy about this. If I were you, I would not sign a buyer agency agreement with this agent for more than the time it takes to get an offer accepted. If by chance your offer doesnt get accepted, you might still have a chance to get this house by going back to the listing agent. Of course, her ethics would be in question at that point too.

"I believe the listing agent was the procuring cause in this case."

Opening a door to show a house is not procuring cause.
The buyer has the right to be represented by an agent and the listing agent can't do that. (that's how the law reads where I am, but local laws will govern)

Berni, while I agree with you that the buyer has a right to representation, I also believe the listing agent in this case did more than open the door. The listing agent can be a dual agent. Here is an interesting article on procurring cause, apparently its a popular subject. If nothing else, hopefully it educates the general public on using the listing agent to show them properties.

http://realtytimes.com/rtapages/20040211_causecases.htm

Perhaps things are done a bit differently in Texas- I was in a similar position as the OP - looking for a very 'special' property (for retirement). Spent 3 months on Realtor.com 'checking out' things on line (I do not want to see a zillion places that do not match my wants). Contacted one listing agent via e-mail - she gave me the additional info I asked for - contacted her again several times to get directions to listing (most were not hers). She then wanted a 90 days contract to show me anything and if I had found a FSBO I would have had to pay her a commission during that 90 days.

Found a new listing and contacted the listing agent - was advised he was on his way to pick up an offer - asked if we could still see the property - he said yes. Went to see it the next day, and like the OP - it was so 'right'. Just before seeing it we had been at a seminar put on by
Texas Veterans Land Board and met a realtor that I just 'clicked' with.

Told the listing realtor we would be making an offer thru the 'other' realtor. Had realtor 2 come by and signed contract for them to represent us. I had met a mortgage broker at the same seminar and got him involved in getting us financing.

Our offer was accepted - there was no major contingency - we were paying more than 30% down - have good credit scores, we did end up paying $2K less as the property did not appraise at the offered price and seller knew we could 'close'. She had an offer months earlier fail (probably due to financing problems) when she had it listed at a higher amount. It had just been reduced when I saw the listing and it is obvious she originally had it listed too high.

It was very difficult for the appraiser to get comps due to the 'uniqueness' of the property.

I hope the OP has a successful 'journey' Carolyn

Here is one of our local famous legal eagles talking about the "chain of events" for claiming procuring cause.

Here is a link that might be useful: Procuring cause

Personally, I would not go to a bank or broker recommeded by an agent. Do you not have a bank or broker that you can deal?

WOW. Linda is doing a disservice to her profession, and I am surprised no other REA has has spoken out to save face. I clearly see this as an example of why flat fee listings should be used by all. She is saying that an agent whom agrees to sell your house for 3% (5000 in this example), will require another 3% to show it. The original 3% gets you nothing more than lip service and an MLS page. I always thought a full price listing including showing the property - NOT?

She also admits her willingness to sabotage a deal on her own listing if a serious buyer wanted to use another agent after she showed it first. Its easy to run "their business" like this since it isn't "their property" at stake. Parasites do what they want to the detriment of the host. I thought real estate was more symbiotic - NOT. I know its murder having to drive around all day in a fancy car unlocking those brutally heavy doors, but isn't that what actually sells the house? The lister in this deal may get her listing sold for the 20-30 additional minutes she spent showing her house. Are agents really not supposed to move a finger unless a deal is guaranteed? I am convinced from your statements that most of your time is really spent doing nothing (or making excuses not to work) - look how much time you spend posting...

I'm sorry linda - the last post was too harsh. You probably do spend a lot of time working at your job. Its just that you also get paid alot to do that job when you figure the hourly commitment. I thought a lot of the earlier posts were focused on what the REA gets, and not the people actually buying and selling the house. The "wasting my time" touched a nerve. I apologize...

She is saying that an agent whom agrees to sell your house for 3% (5000 in this example), will require another 3% to show it.

Mudbelly, I'm not quite sure how you got that out of this post, but you need to re read again. I will show any property to MY clients or customers. Im simply saying, I will not show my listings to someone elses customers. Besides putting me in a precarious situation, I don't believe its ethical to take another persons client out. I also don't believe that I should be doing the buyers agents work for any reason.

She also admits her willingness to sabotage a deal on her own listing if a serious buyer wanted to use another agent after she showed it first

Mudbelly, again, you need to re read. I said I'm curious to see if the offer gets accepted, that the agent will not be happy about this, I also said, if that happened, her ethics would be in question too. Where does it say I would be willing to sabotage a deal? I'm speaking honestly in what I believe is a real possibility, Im in the business, I know there are unethical agents out there. Sheesh. You can also go back to some of the older posts I've written and see that I have NEVER had a problem with dual agency, not one person in 18 years of being in the business has ever felt the need to go to another agent after I showed them a house.

I always thought a full price listing including showing the property - NOT?

Yes,it does, to my own clients, not someone elses. This statement really proves to me that you understand very little about how real estate works.

I am convinced from your statements that most of your time is really spent doing nothing (or making excuses not to work) - look how much time you spend posting...

Did it ever occur to you that maybe I'm home sick this weekend, on vacation, or like every other realtor right now and in a market where things are extremely slow? Not that it is any of your business how much time I spend posting, it really has no relevance on how I do my job.

I know its murder having to drive around all day in a fancy car unlocking those brutally heavy doors, but isn't that what actually sells the house?

If I thought all I had to do was drive around in a fancy car and unlock heavy doors to sell houses, I would do it to every single person that rang the phone. However, I'm much better off doing things that have been proven to work over the many years I've spent in this business.

Its just that you also get paid alot to do that job when you figure the hourly commitment.

Really? Figure the hourly committment by adding up all the time wasters, people that you show one house to that never turn in to a client because "they just want to see this one house and don't want to commit to a realtor".

The months you can spend with a client to have them say, "we're going to wait before we purchase"

The days, weeks, months you can spend with a client and some unethical agent convinces them that if they don't put the offer in on the open house today, right this minute, they will lose it. (perfect example of why a buyers agent contract should be used, which is slow going in my area)

The months it takes to get to closing and the deal falls thru because the buyer didnt realize they were doing a bad thing by closing all their credit card accounts right before the closing. Now their credit score drops and they no longer qualify for the loan. (It happens!)

Or how about this one that JUST happened. Four months into a transaction, hundreds of hours trying to "fix things", and the buyer gets "tired" of battleing to buy this house. They want to drop it and start all over again.

Rarely does a deal go thru without a hitch. Most have some kind of issue. When you do get a smooth deal, its a relief and most of the time, its something you really need at that time.

Now tell me about that hourly rate again?

WOW - this is quite a heated thread! A couple of things:

Re: the pre-qual letter. My little old mother was looking to downsize in her little old town. She saw a property she liked & wanted to see. She called the listing agent (a young man new to town) & he would not show it without a pre-qual letter. Period. She was so insulted that she didn't even look at that house - didn't want to reward him in any way for being "rude". Little did he know she had no contingencies, was paying cash & would have probably listed her current house with him. She ended up with something much better & more expensive so if he'd hung in there with her, he would have made more money + her old house sold quickly for more than she expected. His loss.

Re: Buyers agent, etc. When we bought our first house, the listing agent was the next door neighbor. We were driving by, writing down the info & she approached us from her yard to show it. We figured since she was going to be our neighbor we would just use her. Big mistake. It was our first time buying & we really needed advice and she could not give it. She said she would be impartial but she knew how much we could spend & advised the buyer to stick to their listing price and not negotiate. We were only talking a few thousand & we really wanted that house, but still. She pulled high comps in the area to justify the cost too. We were at a HUGE disadvantage. She disclosed some of our financial information to the seller too & they passed it along to a few of the other neighbors. So our business was out there in front of people that didn't need to know that much about us. Very awkward. So, to the original poster - get your own BUYER's agent.

When we were looking this past December, we used a friend of ours to show us houses. She was super. We narrowed things down online & she only showed us 3 houses before we bought. She even looked at one FBSO house with us that would not give her a %, just so she could pull comps for us & still advise us what to offer. (She had to know that we would have paid her something anyway - but still....) We did not buy that one & ended up with one that was listed by an agent in her office so she got her cut, but it was a very pleasant experience. I guess because she knows us & cares about us as people , not just clients with $$.

Re-reading it again - I'm not really that sorry. Unfortunately, you can't edit your posts, eh?

"A realtor would be bankrupt running out and showing their listings to people who never turn into clients working the way you think it should be done."

"Now, if you're asking if I will show someone elses client my listing. No, I dont do that, thats what "their buyers agent representative is for".

Im not trying to prevail in this debate. I dont have to. It is the way I do my business."

--2 posts PROVING you are not willing to do what it takes to sell your listing - you need 3% more show. Want me to re read it again? I know there's more...

"I don't believe the listing agent will present an offer given by a buyers agent in the most favorable light because the OP has essentially, 'wasted her time'."

--This is you being "curious," or what you "believe?"

"When realtors show houses, their own listings included, the purpose is not only to sell their own listings, but to turn that "looker" into a client. In this scenario, neither is possible, it is an unfair thing to do to a listing agent."

It is perfectly clear its all about you - not your client. They are there for your leads. This is why Real Estate will change as your old school lazy attitude will be replaced with huingry young ones that are willing to do what it takes. If I want to pay a flat fee vs. 3% for, ahem, "Full Service," then I would be all the wiser.

I'm also sure if you reviewed you actual hours WORKING, you would see that the 100's suposedly spent on a fallen deal will actually be much less. You do get your 3% for listing and not showing it to anyone, right? Most people have 40+ hour work weeks, and we don't get paid for the drive to work either...

"I always thought a full price listing including showing the property - NOT?"

"Yes,it does, to my own clients, not someone elses. This statement really proves to me that you understand very little about how real estate works."

Linda, you keep neglecting the fact that the owner of the house - - you know, the person who HIRED YOU TO SELL THE HOUSE - - is your CLIENT too. In fact, I wonder what would happen if, when marketing yourself to the owner when attempting to acquire the listing, you came out and told him that should someone contact you as the listing agent to see the house, you would essentially tell that person to get lost because you would be too busy trying to earn another commission by showing your own "buyer clients" other houses. Somehow I don't think that little tidbit makes it to the forefront of your listing presentation now does it?

I think you guys are reading stuff into how we work that isn't there.
Every agent will show their listing to an unrepresented buyer. Buyers who are represented by another agent, need to work with their agent. If their agent asks me to help him/her out because of an emergency, I will help out (or someone from my office).
We are hired to market a property to other agents and the public, not to sell it, since the likelyhood of selling it ourselves is minimal.
Our efforts are directed toward the most likely success in selling a property and not to spin our wheels in actions, that have a very minimal rate of return.

Berniek -

This person was unrepresented at the time. They really wanted to see the house, and they are now serious about buying it. The 'extraordinary effort' (of 20-30 minutes) this agent gave is what actually may sell the property (surprise!). They need a buyers agent to represent their interests. Linda said since this person "took time out of her day" for the 20-30 min. showing, they should feel obligated to give her another $5K (thats $10 to $15K an hour)! Procure this! The one glaring fact revealed here - that listing agents are not willing to show their clients house unless they get a full 6% - displays much about the true work ethic of the industry...

In rough times like these, there is an expectation that the huge fee asked for by listing agents is justified. If you show your listing 50 times and it takes an hour for this - your still charging $100 an hour for this mere $165K listing. There are a lot of people who think $50 an hour is prety good scratch. To a REA, this is wasted effort since it is such a low success rate. Why who could possibly show 50 times...

What about the $600K listing? Still too hard? I am guessing it is easier to tell a seller to lower that price than it is to actually get up and show it. This is very eye-opening to me to say the least...

I bet that 95% of clients using full service agents do not realize their 3% listing commision is only going to marketing - not actually selling. I thought you paid an agent to sell your house...

"I bet that 95% of clients using full service agents do not realize their 3% listing commision is only going to marketing - not actually selling. I thought you paid an agent to sell your house..."

Well, there you go, you have learned how most of us work.
Your assumption of how much I get paid is just that, and not at issue here. (reminds me of my old military days: "you make an a** out of you and me").
If you want to complain about how much agents make, I suggest starting a new subject about that. We were talking about procedures and practices in the RE industry.

So Angie - Did you make an offer? And if so, what's happening?

Mudbelly, I dont need to edit, you are the one who doesnt understand how things in the real estate industry work. Instead of reading the posts and trying to understand, you sit at your computer, act like a big deal and put your big foot in your mouth. You keep repeating the same thing over and over again even though its been explained over and over again. You cut and paste my sentences, then don't make a point? Its easy to be bold in a nameless faceless place. I wonder if you are so bold in person. If you would like to have an educated converstion then perhaps you could act educated enough to at least pretend you can absorb some of this information.

I especially love this:

It is perfectly clear its all about you - not your client.

I go to work to make money. Do you go to work for any other reason? I take very good care of my clients and get enough referrals to prove it. Why dont you put your profession (if you have one) out on the table here and lets see if we can pick it apart like you seem to think is your given right. It appears that you are a very frustrated individual.

Linda, you keep neglecting the fact that the owner of the house - - you know, the person who HIRED YOU TO SELL THE HOUSE - - is your CLIENT too. In fact, I wonder what would happen if, when marketing yourself to the owner when attempting to acquire the listing, you came out and told him that should someone contact you as the listing agent to see the house, you would essentially tell that person to get lost because you would be too busy trying to earn another commission by showing your own "buyer clients" other houses. Somehow I don't think that little tidbit makes it to the forefront of your listing presentation now does it?

Bethesdamadman I never said I would not show the property to someone who called. What I did say is, I will show properties (My listing or someone elses) to "qualified" buyers. I think Berni is right. A few of you seem to be reading what you want to read and missing the rest.

We have been over this so many times, you just keep saying the same thing, but you never seem to really read the responses. Showing the home to ANYONE who calls, is not representing my seller. It is part of my listing presentation. My sellers KNOW, I will not bring ANYONE to their house who has not been qualified first. Someone who simply just calls to see this house, who does not want to share qualification information, who wants to just call listing agents to gain access, is not a productive way of selling that sellers house or any others sellers house.

I really don't know how many different ways I can say this so you understand.

Sweeby, thanks for asking. We contacted our own agent and he took us to the house to see it again. We were glad to have him "on our side". We aren't proud of having been shown the house by two different agents, but it was interesting to see the differences in being shown a house by the listing agent, and then by an agent who is representing us. Our agent was helpful in checking for possible problems, explaining how pricing works, and digging for info on the house, sellers, and previous contract placed. None of these things would have been possible with the listing agent.

He told us that the house was priced on the "high end" and hasn't been reduced so far. 110 days on the market now. The previous contract failed due to the buyers deciding not to relocate. The previous original offer was for $165,000. The only comp available was for a similar house what sold three years ago for $163,000. $66 per sq ft.

After looking at the house again, we notice many things we didn't before. One foundational crack that looks significant, a rotten deck, outdated and falling off wallpaper in all bathrooms, dated appliances and fixtures, the aerobic system is rigged together with garden hoses and cheap sprinklers. In addition to many other things. We decided to put in a lower offer, and let the sellers know that the lower amount is due to these repairs that will need to be made. We are submitting the offer tomorrow, contingent on inspection. I'll let you know what happens!

Good luck. Glad to hear that you got in and were able to give it a better look. Sounds like the agent you found is doing his job.

I hope your offer is contingent on having a home inspection, meeting your attorney's approval, and the house appraising adequately for mortgage.

linda, I am done arguing about this. I don't think you can see my side, nor I yours.

Sellers and lurkers - keep in mind exactly what 3% to list gets you. If we ALL choose to list with a discount agent or flat fee, it WILL become the norm (like internet travel booking vs. travel agents). EVERYONE will benefit from having more money in their pocket, and we could afford more house as well.

Angie, sorry this thread turned so ugly. Make that foundation issue the biggest concern of your life when you negotiate. It should get you a much better deal (simply because they can be really expensive). Good luck.

Thanks all. I will keep the foundation cracks in mind when negotiating. We did leave room to back out if the inspection brings forth concerns. We have seven days to back out for any reason at all, so we should be good on inspection and appraisal. Someone asked about mortgage brokers. We are using a broker that was recommended by family members, not by our realtor, so all is well there.

Thanks for all the help. We will play this out and see what happens. The sellers are still overpriced in my opinion. If it doesn't work out, there are always other houses.

angie -- That's exactly the right attitude. There are indeed other houses. Sometimes what seem like "setbacks" are life-savers.

Hello all, I wanted to let you know what ended up happening with us. We just closed on the house we wanted. We got it for $165,000. (The wind blew, but we held firm!) It was an enlightening experience, and we are very happy with our new home. Thank you all for your advice and empathy!

Congratulations! May you have many happy years there, and may your only surprises be happy ones.

What turned up in the home inspection?

Best wishes as you start enjoying your new home!

The inspection showed no structural concerns due to the foundation cracks, but there was some termite damage, but nothing alarming. Everything else was minor.

I'm a brand new, ink is still drying on my license agent. However I would like to add a point that has not been addressed. What about safety? I WILL not go show up at a house to meet a buyer I don't know without said buyer showing their face and meeting me at the office first. Now, that sounds paranoid and probably 99.9% of the time unnecessary. Now, after we meet and if they want to be prequalified I will show them all the houses they want to see. If they don't want to do that and need to feel more comfortable with me before doing that I will show them one house. They still will have to meet me at the office first because my safety is more important than a potential sale.

Linda made excellent points and seems like a great professional that puts her clients first, I don't see any problem with anything she said.

Angieanders: Congratulations! It's great when the end turns out like this.