I understand where your coming from. My moms sister died at around 17. We were always told it was a drowning incident in the shower which it was, what we weren't told was that it was an epileptic siezure and that's why she fell. Back then she was in mental institutions because society didn't understand what epilepsy was and they actually thought she was either possessed or crazy.

Thanks for sharing, kathsgrdn,

I wish that we felt more free to talk about some of the "unmentionables" in society.

"Cancer" is another word that drives some almost crazy - and many won't talk about it directly, skirting around the issue.

But isn't it better if we can level with our loved ones, and talk realistically, and support one another, as we go through some of life's trials?

My Mom became ill about 6 mos. after the birth of her youngest (third of three living sons, and a still-born before me, the eldest).

I imagine that would be called "post-partum depression", in recent times, but then it was diagnosed as schizophrenia. She spent almost 8 years in the psych. hospital ... died of TB, I think ... and I, at 13, was the one who got the call from the hospital.

It was rather disconcerting, having little memory of Mom, to see her at 39 in a coffin, looking rather old, with stringy grayish hair.

I asked Dad once whether he thought that he'd put a substantial part of his emotions into cold storage after Mom's problems, and he said that he didn't think so ... but I'm not entirely convinced.

I don't think that Dad ever told me that he loved me, and a few years ago, in discussion with brother, he agreed: but we both knew that he did.

In earlier generations there was much less discussion of emotional issues, of course.

I suspect that it may have borne some bitter fruit in my generation, as well, as I did such a poor job of letting Sue know how important she was to me that she decided that she preferred to live on her own.

ole joyful

Kathy, I know just how your dad feels, wanting to shove it in the past. He's most likely around my age and 'back in those days', you didn't talk about such things - that's why so many adopted kids are finding out, in their later years, the real story of why they were adopted.

Back in 'my day', no one told an adopted child he/she was adopted - my brother found out, at age 50, when his adoptive mother died suddenly, and they were going through her important documents - he had NO IDEA!

We (of that era) grew up naive about such personal things - we simply weren't told what happened to 'Susie' or a family member who just 'vanished' for awhile OR forever. It was a prime example of 'don't ask - don't tell'.

What an interesting find! Your poor dear Granny had a tough life, and no doubt your dad had some rough times too. No telling why she was really in the mental hospital. We have drugs and techniques today which are so helpful, but mental health issues do still carry a stigma, sadly.

That's a powerful find! What made you look into it? (Perhaps you mentioned it in another thread, and I missed it.) Do you feel a little frustrated not being able to talk about it with your dad? I would. But it's good that you're respecting his wishes in the matter. This is something that has had an impact on him for his whole life.

Kath, I think it is best not to tell your dad. There is nothing that he can do now to change anything and he has learned to live with what he believes to be the truth.

No need to open old wounds.

Sue

Oh these stories are so sad, but yes, some things are best left unsaid.

I know some things that my sibs don't know, and if they did it would break their hearts. I released the burden of knowing these things (along with experiencing them) a long time ago, I know that it would open fresh wounds for them, and what would be the point.

They say knowledge is power, but in these cases it can make us feel powerless.

I hate my computer/internet...I just typed out a big long response and then got an error and had to close the page out.

Ed, sorry about your mother. I feel sad for her and my grandmother, did they just lock them up and throw away the key?

Alisande, not frustrated at all. I know a lot about my dad now that I didn't know 10 years ago. He never wanted us around his father, brother or step-mother. I kinda have an idea why now.

Sue, I'm not going to tell my dad or either of my brothers. I don't want them saying anything to him.

Now I'm wondering what kind of man my dad's uncle Flem was. I just had a headstone made for his grave.

It's often nice to know things, but let's also not forget the thing about a little knowledge being a dangerous thing. I'm happy for you to clear up some things about your history. I certainly would like to know as I'm sure you're happy to have discovered. But of course there's still a lot unknown and you'll never know as to what contributed to your dad's feelings.

Many times we try not to let things affect us but often they will anyway. And to some people what's petty to you and me can be something very major to them. What we might not think twice about could be very humiliating to them. For instance a good friend of mine often alluded to essentially a hideous secret in his past, something he couldn't even talk about with anyone and was scared to even tell his bride to be. Finally he broke down and told me, in tears, that he never graduated from high school. He was humiliated in school and refused to go back. He got his GED the following summer. I couldn't imagine how that would shame him so, especially since he got his GED. Essentially it's the same thing. He went on to college but that "dirty little secret" has haunted him.

In days of old there were certain things that just weren't talked about. And with some commercials on today hyping feminine freshness and male enhancement, I kinda wish some things weren't talked about so much today!

It is sad though about people who are deprived of what's considered a "normal" family life, especially through no fault of their own. It does impact people. Occasionally it can make one stronger but often it's a pained strength AFAIC.

What sad stories. I'm so sorry for all involved.

What a sad life! I wonder if it was depression after the death of the baby, not psychosis. Something so treatable today. The hospital looks like a lovely building. Is it still there? I see it is in Tuscaloosa. If it's still standing wonder if there is any tornado damage.

Speaking of things that are easily treated today-I would have had a brother 1 year older than me named Tommy. He was born with a VSD (ventricular septal defect) which is so easily treated today. He died after about a month in the hospital, the same hospital my Dad was an intern at. My parents would have had a healthy one year old at the time, my older brother Mark. I just can't imagine the sadness. She went on to have me and then 3 others in rapid succession and all 5 of us survived and are law-abiding tax paying citizens.

I think Family Skeletons are a lot more common than we'd think. My first husband had an uncle Jimmy who he was always told died in a car crash. The family didn't tell him the uncle was drunk driving. My second (current) husband's grandfather was a bigamist, with families in both New York and Italy. My own mother was adopted, she felt a lot of shame over it, found out when she was about 70 who her natural mother was.

This is not a suggestion to tell your father. That is your business -

But the topic got me thinking about my masters thesis, which was of family secrecy. It is the secrecy itself that perpetuates shame.

I myself have learned that when I share my "secrets" I"m much less tortured by them. The fact that I take anti anxiety meds, the fact that I wax my moustache, the fact that I am a sinner, and the fact that I love listening to the Carpenters music (LOL) have all been shared - before that, those things used to make me feel soooo bad.

Shame is a tragic, and yet very treatable, condition: Treated via talk.

Again, this is not suggesting that you tell your dad. But maybe someone else out there has a moustache and feels as bad about themselves as I used to. (Grin)

amyfiddler -- Thanks for talking about the damage done by 'family secrets'. The only GOOD family secrets last as long as it takes to open your Christmas presents. There are no other beneficial secrets in a family. I'm not saying you have to hit people over the head with them, but hiding facts that concern the people nearest and dearest to you FROM ONE ANOTHER is never a good thing. And, you know what? The 'secrets' twist people's understanding of how family members relate (or fail to relate) to one another.

kath -- I would write a letter, saying pretty much what you've said here, especially that the knowlege has helped you understand HIM better. I don't know that it would help you father; it might. He would know that you know these facts, and that YOU neither need nor want secrets. What he does or doesn't do in response is up to him.

Amy is right, the harm is in the *secret*. I wouldn't want to perpetuate any.

Hi Kath in the garden,

Sometimes the best therapy is to go out and hoe weeds ...

... and let's not forget that a weed is a plant in the wrong place.

While I have some positive feeling toward the value of being straightforward in life (including diplomatic and empathetic) rather than perpetuating secrets, as I indicated earlier ... I'm somewhat less inclined to recommend that you level with your Dad. You know your situation better than any of us here who've heard so little of the actual situation, including a hundred or so nuances, that it seems to me that it would be premature of us to jump to conclusions.

I hope that your judgement is for the best, here.

Whatever you decide, I hope that both you and your Dad may be blessed as you travel the road of life.

Also, thank you for your good wishes to me. My issues have become fairly dormant for a number of years, now: Mom died almost 60 years ago and Sue left just over 40 years ago.

ole joyful

I suspect that you dad probably knows more than he's let on. At his age, I'm not sure what would be gained by telling him if he didn't already know.

...my participation here is more theoretical than specific to this situation, only because the topic of family secrets is so interesting to me.

So what's to gain from sharing a family secret "like" this one here? Really, it's about the relationshp between father and daughter. A secret puts up walls due to the shame. So being able to say "I know your secret and I still love and accept you" is really really a powerfully healing thing to the person who holds the secret and potentially increases intimacy between two people.

Also, the assumption that the secret holder has put it entirely in their past is often false. People hold on to shame for years and years, and often it nags daily, silently, and bleeds into areas that are not easily detected.

Another way of seeing this, rather than simply "He's old, why bring it up now" is to say "He hasn't many years now, he deserves peace".

OF course, we don't know in THIS situation what is best for him, so we cannot presume to say that he "should" or "shouldn't" be told.

The other thing I know about humans is that we gravitate to status quo. It's familiar, it's comfortable, and the devil we know is more attractive than the devil we don't.

To be fair, I choose to keep certain secrets too. I have one that I'll go to my deathbed with - however, I HAVE gone to therapy for it, and a bulk of the shame of it has been dealt with. Certainly makes life easier for me. Hopefully this dad has been able to do the same. However, if someone approached me lovingly with the information and asked me about it, I would likely be scared but relieved as well. It's just not my secret to tell, if that makes sense. Maybe dad feels some sense of loyalty to his mom.