akkw - of course you can get out of this contract. There are way too many issues with this house. As others have said, it's obvious that the owners have not taken water damage seriously and seemed to have let everything fester. This is not your problem.

It seems that you have become emotionally attached to this house and want it in spite of all these obvious flaws. What else is wrong which isn't showing? With your realtor, figure out how to get out of this contract, as the myriad issues are not acceptable to you. If you saw 150 houses, certainly there must be second and third and fourth choice houses you are your husband have on your list. Do not rush into this, or feel pressured by the time frame of your move, or the contract. This house is a "fixer upper" and unless you and your husband want to be putting in major repairs - move on. Along with your lowball offer (which it probably wasn't), submit a highball repair list (including roof replacement, window replacement, mold mitigation) and back out.

Thanks everyone. Actually I'm not emotionally attached to the house. At this point we just want to find a way out.

It seems stupid that unless they agree to let us out of the contract, we have to play hardball and submit a huge list of issues, or else sue for nondisclosure. But I guess that's what we'll have to do. If they would have disclosed the roof leaks we would never have made an offer on the property, at any price. We would have made an offer on our second choice house (a very close second) which is now under contract, and since we've used up our Cartus house-buying expense allowance on this fiasco we now need to start over, and at our expense. Plus any expense related to getting out of the contract (attorney fees or whatever). What if they actually agree to our huge laundry list of fixes? Then we're stuck anyway.

I really appreciate all your advice. My husband and I have read and re-read all your responses.

Our agent has been gone but I'll finally touch base with her later this morning by phone. She indicated to me that we need to come up with a list of questions for the seller so that we can "try to move forward with this". I'm going to tell her that it doesn't matter to me what the sellers say at this point; it won't change anything.

By the way, the reason we hoped to avoid renting is that I didn't want my kids to have to change schools twice (unless we ended up buying in the same neigborhood we rented in, they would very likely have to change schools). They're having a hard enough time thinking about changing schools once.

akkw -- I understand your issues with not wanting the kids to move twice, I commend you for thinking about them in the midst of all this. You should find the schools you want to send the children to and rent an apartment or home in that area and then concentrate on buying in that area so that the children do not transfer schools. As for getting out of the contract, I think if you even mention you're going to sue for non disclosure the sellers will let you out of the contract. There is absolutely no way that with that much water damage and a pie tin to boot catching drips that they didn't know about the water problem. It might behoove you to put in a call to an attorney to see what your options are.

Why not xerox the inspection report and tell them that you want everything fixed, mold mitigation, new windows as needed, a new roof, a licensed electrician, professional roofer, and licensed plumber hired. The contract will end real quick as these sellers are cheap skates. This bad inspection will not be hard to get out of.

I find it interesting that your inspection contingency clause basically gives the seller all of the leverage in this transaction. In the D.C. metro area, it is completely reversed. The boilerplate standard inspection contingency clause states that the buyer in his or her sole discretion can determine whether the inspection was satisfactory. If the inspector comes up with even just one minor issue then the buyer can simply walk if he wants to. If the buyer wants to follow through with the purchase then he can give the seller the option of fixing the problem or providing buyer with the money to do so. It is not until then that the seller has any input into whether the contract will be ratified. Once the buyer gives the seller the list, the seller can then either correct the problem(s) or refuse to do so. If the seller chooses not to correct the problem(s), then the buyer once again has the right to cancel the contract.

Here you go... cut and paste as needed.

The dishwasher was not securely attached to the kitchen counter top and moved when the door was open.
The dishwasher will be attached to the kitchen counter top according to the manufacturers intallation instructions. The work will be done by a licensed carpenter/licensed contractor.

There were water stains observed on the ceiling materials in the kitchen and the master bedroom.
The ceiling materials will be tested for water content by a licensed contractor and the ceiling materials will be replaced if the water content of these spots is higher than that of the surrounding ceiling materials.

The dishwasher was leaking, apparently at the seal of the door.
The dishwasher seal will be replaced by a factory-authorized service contractor, using replacement parts supplied by the manufacturer of the appliance.

The game room patio door screen was damaged.
The game room patio door screen will be replaced by a licensed contractor. The screen material used will visually match the screen material used in other door/windows of the home.

The window operating hardware was not fully functional at two of the windows in the game room and should be repaired.
The window operating hardware will be repaired/replaced by a factory-authorized service contractor.

Some of the cranks for the window operating hardware were missing.
Missing cranks for the window-operating hardware will be replaced by hardware provided by the original window manufacturer.

There appeared to be a water stain at the family room ceiling, near the right side of the fireplace.
The family room ceiling stain near the right side of the fireplace will be tested for water content. Ceiling materials will be replaced if the stained area is found to be of a higher water content than the surrounding materials, or if the stain is determined to be unable to be cosmetically repaired so that it is no longer noticeable. The source of the stain will be determined and will be repaired. All work will be done by licensed contractors.

The lockset at the back patio door was not fully functional and was in need of adjustment.
A licensed locksmith will be contracted to repair the lockset at the back patio door. It will be replaced by the locksmith if it cannot be repaired. The new lockset will match in appearance the original lockset, or the locksets on other doors of the house.

The arched window at the master bedroom appeared to be cloudy, however, it could have been dirty. After cleaning, the window should be checked for any moisture between the insulated glass.
A factory representative of the window manufacturer will inspect and repair the moisture between the insulated glass panes in the arched window of the master bedroom.

Open electrical wiring was observed in the cabinets on the left wall of the back patio foyer.
A licensed electrician will be contracted to properly replace/repair the open electrical wiring in the cabinets on the left wall of the back patio foyer. The repairs will be done in compliance with the building codes in effect for the municipality.

The GFCI receptacle at the master bathroom ceiling was "hot", however, it was not providing ground fault protection and should be replaced.
A licensed electrician will replace the GFCI recepticle at the master bathroom ceiling. The repairs will be done in compliance with the building codes in effect for the municipality.

The master bathroom shower faucets were leaking at the handle.
A licensed plumber will repair/replace the leaking faucets in the bathroom shower. The wall behind the shower enclosure will be tested for excess moisture and mold. If either is found, the problem will be repaired/remediated, even if this entails the removal of shower enclosure materials and the rebuilding of the shower enclosure. Materials comparable to the original materials will be used if the shower must be replaced. All work will be done by licensed contractors.

These water stains could be from the installation of the wallpaper border. Please check with the seller.
The source of these water stains will be determined and the wall/ceiling materials will be tested for excess moisture. The materials will be repaired/replaced by a licensed contractor.

The commode at the master bathroom was leaking at the floor seal.
The commode in the master bathroom will be removed and the flooring will be inspected for excessive moisture. Subflooring or flooring found to have excessive moisture will be replaced, as will any structural materials affected by excess moisture. The wet flooring will be removed completely, even if this entails removing tub/shower fixtures. A proper seal will be made when the toilet is reseated. All work will be done by licensed contractors.

One of the window screens a the family room was damaged.
The damaged window sceen in the family room will be replaced. The replacement screen will not vary in appearance from the existing family room screens. All work will be done by licensed contractors.

This electrical switch (I think in the dining room) was not fully functional and should be replaced.
This electrical switch will be replaced by a licensed electrician.

The refrigerant line at the HVAC coil unit in the attic space was not fully covered with insulation, which could cause condensation to drip on the ceiling below.
The refrigerant line at the HVAC coil unit will be properly insulated according to the building codes in effect for the municipality. The ceiling below the line will be tested for excess moisture and will be repaired or replaced. All work will be done by licensed contractors.

Slight water intrusion from the cracked flashing component at the plumbing vent stacks.
A licensed roofer will remove and replace the flashing at all plumbing vent stacks. Roofing materials near the leaks in the stacks will be inspected for excessive moisture and will be replaced if excessive moisture is found. The roofing materials used will not be distinguishable from the ground from the existing roofing materials, even if this entails reroofing the house.

There was an unused "hot" wire observed in the attic space.
The attic space will be inspected by a licensed contractor for further hot wires. The electrical components in the attic will be certified as safe by the contractor. All work will be done according to code.

There was a water stain observed in the attic space over the master bathroom closet.
The roof deck, structural materials, and ceiling above the master bathroom closet will be inspected by a licensed contractor for excessive moisture content. Materials found to have excessive moisture will be remediated or replaced. All work will be done by licensed contractors.

There was a water stain observed on the basement ceiling.
The source of the stain observed on the basement ceiling will be determined by a licensed contractor. The source will be repaired and structural and ceiling materials near the leak will be tested for excess moisture. Any materials with excess moisture will be remediated/replaced. All work will be done by licensed contractors.

This electrical receptacle in the basement was not securely attached to the outlet box.
JA licensed electrician will properly secure the electrical receptical in the basement.

The heat exchanger at the first level gas furnace was rusting. A licensed HVAC technician
should be consulted for further analysis.
A licensed HVAC technician will inspect the heat exchanger at the first level gas furnace. If it is not working properly, it will be replaced by manufacturer-approved replacement parts.

The refrigerant line at the HVAC coil unit in the basement space was not fully covered with insulation, which could cause condensation to drip on the floor.
The refrigerant line at the HVAC coil unit in the basement will be properly insulated according to the building codes in effect for the municipality. The materials below the line will be tested for excess moisture and will be repaired or replaced. All work will be done by licensed contractors.

This electrical receptacle at the basement was wiring with the hot/neutral wires reversed.
A licensed electrician will properly wire the electrical receptacle.

A section of the driveway was deteriorated and appeared to be a safety concern.
This section of driveway will be repaired/replaced by a licensed contractor.

There was open electrical wiring observed in the basement on the wall opposite the main water valve.
A licensed electrician will rplace/repair the open electrical wiring in the basement on the wall opposite the main water valve.

The flashing components were not properly installed where the back deck attaches to the structure and was allowing water to penetrate into the ceiling structure of the room below.
The flashing components where the back deck attaches to the structure will be replaced by a licensed contractor. The wall and ceiling structure of the room below the deck will be tested for excess moisture content. Any materials found to be moist will be remediated/replaced and the area will be finished so as to be cosmetically similar to the original appearance of the room. Exterior wall materials will be inspected and any structural or finish materials affected by moisture will be replaced. The inspection of the exterior wall will be done even if it involves removing all or portions of the interior wall. All work will be done by licensed contractors.

The caulking was inadequate at the windows and doors that were installed in the brick veneer.
Inadequate calking will be removed and replaced by a licensed contractor. Materials around the windows will be tested for excessive moisture and remediated/replaced. If moist materials are found, the structural components of the wall will be inspected for water damage, even if this involves removing part or all of interior walls.

There was excessive vegetation observed at the right side of the structure.
The building materials on the right side of the structure will be inspected for excessive moisture. Vegetation will be trimmed so that it is not in contact with the house. All work will be done by licensed contractors.
The flashing components at the lower front overhang area appeared to be inadequate at this point.
The structural materials below the lower front overhang will be inspected for structural integrity by a licensed contractor. The overhang will be reflashed. The overhang materials and wall materials below the overhang will be inspected for excessive moisture. If it is found, the materials will be remediated or replaced. All work will be done by licensed contractors.

The steel angle irons over the windows and doors at the brick veneer were rusting.
The steel angle irons will be inspected. If the rusting is caused by normal weathering, no remediation is needed. If another cause of rusting is found, it will be elliminated.

The refrigerant line at the exterior HVAC units was not fully covered with insulation.
The refrigerant line at the exterior HVAC units will be inspected and properly covered with insulation. The building materials at the exit point for the lines from the house will be inspected for excessive moisture and repaired/replaced. All work will be done by licensed contractors.

The HVAC condensation lines were exiting at the foundation wall, contributing moisture to the foundation wall area.
The HVAC condensation lines will be repaired/replaced/moved as needed to stop their dripping onto the foundation walls. All work will be done by licensed contractors.

The roof surface water was being directed toward the driveway, which was a safety concern.
The roof surface waters will be directed away from the driveway.

There were through the brick type cracks observed at the back side of the structure near the garage door opening. These cracks did not appear to be structurally significant at the time of the inspection, however, they should be sealed and monitored for any further movement.
These cracks will be inspected by a licensed mason. If they are structurally significant, the source of the structural problem will will be identified and remediated. If they are not structurally significant, they will be sealed. All work will be done by licensed contractors.

The roof surface water was being directed toward the walkway, which was a safety concern.
The roof surface waters will be directed away from the walkway.

The hand railing at the back deck was loose.
The hand railing will be properly secured. All work will be done by licensed contractors.

The HVAC units at the right exterior were not installed in a level position.
The HVAC units at the right exterior will be placed on a level surface. All work will be done by licensed contractors.

The rubber gaskets at the plumbing vent stack pipes were cracked and should be replaced or repaired to help prevent water intrusion into the attic space.
The rubber gaskets at the plumbing vent stacks will be replaced. All work will be done by licensed contractors.

The metal flashing components at the brick chimney were lifting and in need or repair and sealing.
The metal flashing at the brick chimney will be repaired and sealed. The roofing deck around the chimney will be inspected in the attic area. If it is determined that there is excessive moisture in the roofing deck and materials, the materials will be replaced. All work will be done by licensed contractors.

The exterior door sills were not caulked to help prevent water intrusion.
The exterior door sills will be inspected for excessive moisture and will be replaced if found to be wet. The structural and finish materials around the door sills will be inspected and replaced if wet/rotting. If wet wood is found, an inspection will be done to the structure to determine if insects that eat rotting wood (termites, carpenter ants, etc.) are present. If signs of such insects are found, the home will be treated for infestation. Any structural materials or finish materials found to have excess moisture will be remediated/replaced. All work will be done by licensed contractors.

Check for typos and spelling, I haven't had more than a couple hours of sleep. This was soothing work as we wait to hear how DH's dad is doing at the hospital.

I think Nancy's list is a good start. Add in for all water spots/damage in addition to tested for moisture content, also tested for mold and remediated as necessary. And that the source of the water damage be located and fixed.

I would in addition to all the licensed contractors say of your choice. If for some odd reason they would agree to this (I highly doubt it as they seem like cheapskates to start with since they've not fixed any of it while living there).

Then last make sure you have another inspection clause that all these items will be inspected again before closing to make sure work was satisfactorily completed.

Nancy is spot on. GIve them the full list and add in the extras suggested by lyfia.

I have a feeling the seller specifically stated they would not be nickled and dimed because they knew about alot of the water issues.

Make sure there is specific mention of the mould problems and the remediation and inspection thereafter - of course, all done by contractors of YOUR choice and allowing for an inspection of everything once it's done.

These people will not agree to this. Do not budge. Do not negotiate. That is your out.

What is also interesting is will they not have to disclose this in their next disclosure when this deal falls through?

Dont' forget to include all relevant photos in the counter about the HI.

I'm really sorry you're going through this, but you need to make sure you get this response back to them in time.

Well, we are trying to get them to sign a contract to get out of the deal without having to submit the laundry list of fixes, but they think we are making much ado about nothing (I think our realtor does too, if you want to know the truth). They want to go through with the deal. I think we are going to have a problem getting our $5000 earnest money check back.

" The dishwasher was not securely attached to the kitchen counter top and moved when the door was open.
The dishwasher will be attached to the kitchen counter top according to the manufacturers intallation instructions. The work will be done by a licensed carpenter/licensed contractor."

A licensed plumber to attach under counter brackets to a dishwasher? You've GOT to be joking!

I installed my own dishwasher 10 years ago. It hasn't budged or leaked since. If you have to hire a licensed plumber to secure a dishwasher, then I can easily envision hiring an electrician to change a lightbulb.

Of course, Tom418. Nobody with any handy skills at all would need a professional to do that job. I believe that the point of the thread is that despite this, this minor job and countless other jobs that would have been small to correct a few years ago, have been ignored by the sellers. If they don't know to secure the dishwasher, perhaps the buyer would not want them to attempt this job without professional assistance! The "buyer" (let's pray that does not come to pass!) is trying to give them a complete, long list of repairs that will cause the prospective seller to throw up their hands and decide to let the prospective buyers go, hoping the next rube will not be as difficult to work with. Perhaps you did not get this point, or perhaps you think that the buyers are obliged go go on with the purchase of the house regardless of the evidence that standard maintenance was never done on the home?

"The "buyer" (let's pray that does not come to pass!) is trying to give them a complete, long list of repairs that will cause the prospective seller to throw up their hands and decide to let the prospective buyers go...."

It is still hard for me to fathom that the buyer can be forced to follow-through on this contract. As I noted earlier in the thread, where I live it is the buyer who has the sole ability to determine if the inspection was satisfactory. If he's not happy for any reason whatsoever, he can walk away.

What part of submitting all the fixes do you think is not going to work? The way you say your contract written this looks like your way out. Nancy's info and adding of your choosen contractors, mold testing, and re-inspection of fixes. If they don't agree to fixing your request then you're out of the contract and they can't hold your earnest money.

I'm not sure your real estate agent is looking for your best interest and I do think it is a big deal with the leaks and the mold. Do you have children? Children are much more sensitive to lead than adults what is to say they are not more sensitive to mold? There is not enough information on mold and its damages for me to ever want to put any children at a potential unknown risk. Are you prepared to do a complete new roof if it came to it or maybe ask your real estate agent if she is willing to pitch in for that if she thinks it really is no big deal.

The roof sheeting is damaged so to me that would need replacement and thus the roof need patching.

akkw - if your realtor is trying to get you to go through with this and told you that you're making a big deal about nothing, I suggest you complain to the Federal organization helping with the transfer as well as her broker. They certainly have criteria and rules they must follow.

I'm with Bethesdaman - I don't understand how a buyer can be stuck when there is a horrible HI report.

What does your HI contingency say when you made the offer? I know there is a written clause already that you cited, but what was the wording of the HI contingency? Did you write: Satisfactory HI? Was it specified you can get out if it's unsatisfactory?

Your realtor MUST follow your instructions. Insist that the counter is submitted with all the fixes. Do not be bulldozed or intimidated into this.

"What does your HI contingency say when you made the offer? I know there is a written clause already that you cited, but what was the wording of the HI contingency? Did you write: Satisfactory HI? Was it specified you can get out if it's unsatisfactory?"

sparksals, I'm not sure what you mean. What I quoted was the HI contingency. The only thing on the contract pertaining to the home inspection at all was what I quoted in a post above. We didn't write anything else in there. There was a pre-printed list of inspections (check box style) after the text I noted in my post above, and we checked 'full home inspection', 'radon inspection', and 'wood destroying insects inspection'. There is no other text about inspections and nothing hand-written in, except for the list of specific items we want left with the property (appliances, etc). This is the standard contract for this state. There is nothing stating "unsatisfactory inspection" anywhere.

Our agent wants to make sure we are comfortable going ahead with this but she does want us to present the list of fixes. Not to get the seller to bail out, but just to give him an opportunity to fix it. Problem is that we just think this house has too many issues and don't want to buy it now no matter what the sellers do to fix it.

The agent said the sellers are very upset and want to fix this, had no idea that any of this was going on and that the pan was there (the contractor must have put it there in 1991 when the house was built; it was way back in a corner of the attic). I don't know what to believe. But the sellers say they are willing to fix anything no matter what it is, so I don't think they'll balk at a big fix list now. That's my point. They're going to have to fix it anyway; and better to fix it now with a buyer than fix it and have to re-list. They owe no money on the house.

akkw - I agree that this house has issues, but I will say, on some level, most of the issues are minor:

-- a leaky shower faucet is minor
-- not enough window chaulk is minor
-- a broken screen (so minor)
-- window cranks which don't work totally in one room
-- a lock which needs work
-- a wobbly dishwasher
-- more insulation on the AC
-- a double pane window where the seal may have leaked
-- a loose handrail on the deck (get 2-4 screws and a drill)
-- rain water possibly running over the driveway (get a tube to direct it elsewhere)
-- rusted metal pieces (get rustoleum paint and paintbrush)

None of these are huge issues. Even most of the electrical sounds minor.

Seems like the main thing is the roof and flashing, and perhaps gutters. If those were fixed, and any wet wood replaced, would you be okay with this house? After all, you and your husband liked the house to put it on the top of your list. And the things which bother you now, evidently didn't show when you checked it out.

Did the inspector specifically say don't buy this house? Or did he do a super thorough inspection which brought out every little detail. What I am saying, we are all living in houses which have this and that wrong with them. If we thoroughly went through everything as this inspector did, would we get a long list of issues too?

rachel - we don't care about any of the electrical issues, screens, window cranks, etc. I'm not unrealistic. I am worried about the water. My issue is that since these (and who knows what other) leaks have been going on for some time now, we might not be able to find all of the issues that might be behind walls, floors, etc. Is that being too picky?

We've bought and sold many houses but have never had a home inspection like this. The inspector said that the leaks themselves were easy fixes, but he was worried about some bulges in ceilings and that he could not guarantee that there weren't wet wood and mold issues behind walls and floors. He did not say don't buy the house; he said it was up to us to do what was right for us.

Okay, akkw, we can work with that. Go to my post above and highlight it. On your keyboard, hold down the control (Ctrl) key and press the "c" key. You have now copied my list of fixes. Open up your favorite word processing program - usually Word in this Microsoft age, and click on the blank document. Hold down the control key again and also press "v". You should get everything I typed transferred into the document. Name it and save it. Go to the top and write a title for the document and erase my remarks that are the first line of what you copied. Read and fix the document so that it looks like what you want to see. Put the part that is your response to the HI's observation into a different typeface by highlighting each section and going up to the top of the screen and clicking on the Bold icon or typeface that seems to make your request stand out.

Go to the first place that I typed, "Work will be done by a licensed contractor" and click between "contactor" and the period. Type in "of the buyer's choice" Then highlight what you just typed, hit "control" and "C". Move your cursor to the next line of "work will be done by a licensed contractor." Click between the "contractor" and the period and press control "v". Continue on using the control "v" command to add that phrase anywhere you want it.

Next you are going to add in something about testing for mold and mitigating it into every statement I made about testing for moisture content. Use control "C" and control "v" the same way you did before and you will have added all of lyfia's concerns about mold. To get in her concerns about finding the source of the leak, make a statement about that, copy and paste it everywhere it belongs.

Add a paragraph at the end that the house will pass pest, mold, and the home inspection assessments after the repairs have taken place. Or write any kind of "must pass our inspection" clause you like.

I am sorry if these are kindergarten instructions to someone who will be offended that I think you need to be told what to do with my list. I just want to help you get the document ready to submit to the sellers. I did the lion's share of the typing already, do the above fixes and any others you prefer and you can submit this as the list of repairs you are asking that the sellers make. With luck, they will be outraged and will refuse to ever talk to your realtor or you again!

When they do that, you get your deposit back.

If your realtor is not comfortable submitting this list, call the broker who runs her office and complain to the broker that the agent is refusing to represent you in negotiations and that you need a different agent.

How convenient they say that the builder must have left a pan in the attic. That's hogwash and they know it.

Well, if you are stuck by the law, then present every single thing to fix. Every single thing with contractors that YOU approve. The problem with giving them opportunity to repair is that they can try to do it in a cheap and substandard manner.

With all these fixes, especially water and mould remediation, it could take a loooong time to complete.

Is the link below the actual contract that you have? If so, then the clause on page 3

Repairs submitted in compliance with the paragraph above, shall be negotiated in good faith within four (4) days of Buyer submitting repairs to SELLER and/or SELLERs agent. If BUYER and SELLER cannot agree on repairs, this
contract is voidable at the option of either party with earnest money refunded to BUYER. If upon failure to agree upon repairs, either party gives notice of intent to void the contract, then the other party shall, within three (3) days of receipt of notice have the right to: if SELLER, agrees to make the necessary repairs, OR if BUYER, accepts the property in its as-is condition.

If this is the case, just submit every single item on the list requiring a licensed contractor to repair and specify the timeframe in the contract to have re-inspected to ensure proper rectification of the repairs.

Surely, the seller will not agree to everything and then that is your out since you cannot come to an agreement. If you cannot agree, the contract states you can void it and the seller has the option to do all repairs.

This contract looks much more in favour of the seller than the buyer, which is really unfair because you are put in a position where you are bound to a contract before you can have the house fully inspected. Everywhere else I know, it is an out for any reason.

One more thing, if the seller agrees to fix all the defects, you're stuck. If the seller refuses or comes back with a counter of anything less than the full repairs or a reduction in price, then you have an out because they have countered the original agreement and then you have the right to refuse it outright, thus having your out. At least, logically, it seems that is how it should work.

"A licensed plumber to attach under counter brackets to a dishwasher? You've GOT to be joking!"

That is precisely the desired response. The point is to get the seller to give up and refund the escrow money.

nancy_in_mich: I see your point now, and I DO apologize.
I read your post way too fast

Yes, if these could have been done by the homeowner, and they were not, then I wouldn't wan't them attempting repairs now.

I'm the type that wouldn't let things like this happen. A crooked electrical device would drive me nuts, let alone a loose one.

That leaky roof is the biggie, though, and would be enough to have me walk out on the deal. Cases of mold have been known to "blackball" a house with insurance companies, and in some cases, make a house permanently uninhabitable.

Send the link I left to your agent. Tell them that this is what you are afraid of.

Thank you! I'm composing a list with everyone's help. Hopefully we won't have to use it, because we have asked them to release us from the contract and if they do so we'll be done. Otherwise we'll use the list... this just seems crazy to me! What a game!

Glad to hear you will have the list ready. Make sure you submit it no matter what before the dead line even if they are saying they will release you, but haven't signed the papers yet. Otherwise they could just hold you to the contract and refuse to sign.

Yes! What lyfia said. Don't get screwed over by this! Meet that deadline come hell or high water!

Keep us posted.

akkw - any update? What did the seller say?

What happened akkw?

We all become so invested in these sagas we really like to hear the conclusion. :-)

OMG...the contractor left a pan in the ceiling in 1991!! What a whopper of a lie. If they are deceitful about that, I can't imagine all other things they "forgot".

Let us know what happened...hopefully you got out of the contract and got your deposit back.

Best of luck to you.

"This is actually a safety issue. When the seal breaks, you can end up with one of the panes "spontaneously" shattering, which even with tempered glass, is most definitely a hazard. I don't know all the science behind it, but basically, uneven heating and cooling due to the leak between the no-longer-sealed panes stresses the glass."

This is not correct.
A broken seal will allow for EQUAL pressure and not result in broken glass.
The industry had a problem with gas filled (argon usually) units loosing the argon charge and bowing in.
This resulted in units shattering without warning.
These problems have generally been solved, but leakage of pure gas filled units is still higher than if the unit contained the same mixture of gases as the atmosphere.
It is a partial pressure problem and cannot be fixed completely.

This is not correct.
A broken seal will allow for EQUAL pressure and not result in broken glass.
The industry had a problem with gas filled (argon usually) units loosing the argon charge and bowing in.
This resulted in units shattering without warning.

But how did the glass lose the argon charge in the first place? Wouldn't that be a broken seal? In our case, the glass had condensation between the two panes, indicating that the argon went out, and regular air went in (or so I thought). Maybe the seal was letting more argon out than it was letting regular air in?

Sorry to go off-topic but at least this will bump the thread and maybe catch akkw's attention... :)

*sigh* I was hoping akkw had come back to update. Perhaps her lack of posting is good news that she got out of the deal and she and hubby are avidly house hunting again.

Sorry for the delay. I just got back from a three day trip to the city we're locating to, trying to find an alternative house.

I sent the very long fix list and they "laughed hysterically". They are going to sign the release tomorrow (they are taking the longest amount of time possible to let us out of the contract). So we have an out.

Unfortunately, we also don't have a house. No really good alternatives, and we have to move there in THREE WEEKS. No rentals in the area we are trying to move (excellent school district, upper middle class houses, no rentals) so if we don't buy something and close in three weeks or less, I won't get my kids registered in school there. The school there is competitive and fills up fast so they have to be registered in the next three weeks or we won't get a spot and they will have to go to an alternative (much lower quality) school outside of the neighborhood and transfer in.

We are trying to decide if there is any way we can work it out with the water house, or if we should. Since we don't have much else for alternatives we don't know what to do.

I did a walk-through of the water house with the home inspector while there a couple of days ago. My biggest worry is that there is a walk-in closet where the ceiling is actually bulging (from water, I assume) and there are water stains all over the ceiling. We didn't see it when we initially walked through -- the water stains were faint enough that we didn't spot them, or the bulge. The home inspector thought that all the leaks were the result of poor flashing and would be fixed with new flashing on the roof, although the roof itself is within 2 years of needing to be replaced. I asked for a new roof in the fix list but there's no way they will go for that.

Anyone have any ideas of what the ceiling bulge might indicate? How much damage there could be? The home inspector said about the house "he didn't see anything he didn't expect to see in a house this age" (17 years). But again, we're talking about an upper middle class neighborhood and not a cheap house, and I can't even imagine that these kinds of water issues could be that common! So I still don't know if I'm making too much of this.

Without having to go back and reread the thread, I don't recall you saying where you are looking to move to. Perhaps make a new post with this info, you might get some feedback. Be sure to include price...

I wouldn't touch the water house after seeing the photos. I can handle a little bit of mold, but when you're looking at that amount of leaking, well, you could end up sick from the house and not even living in it while it gets fixed.

Akkw, you are going to need to make some choices:

The water house = a LOT of money, time and aggravation
A different house = possibly moving the kids twice

Are you certain there are NO rentals in the area? My area is 93% owner-occupied single family homes but there are rentals. There is also short term executive housing - basically a furnished month-to-month rental, not cheap but if available where you are moving, a stop gap that may buy you some time until a (much) better house becomes available.

BTW, they may have "laughed hysterically" but I wonder how funny it will be to them when they have to disclose the mold and leaks to the next potential buyer?

My 2 cents, DON'T TOUCH THE WATER HOUSE!!

I just can't believe the area is so so desirable that you would consider buying this house where the sellers have lied (e.g., pan in the attic), there's evidence of water damage, maybe severe damage and mold. It sounds like a nightmare. I'd rather move the kids twice - it's inconvenient but nothing compared with making a very costly mistake (I don't remember the dollar value but I'm assuming at least $300K-$500K here). Also where mold's concerned, I'd rather err on the side of safety.

I would not buy the water house. I really think the kids are better off moving twice than being exposed to mold and watching their parents stress.

Realtors can sometimes help find short term rentals. They know lots of people.

Perhaps aside from the water intrusion/damage issues, this house is common for a 17 year old house....however, the level of water damage/intrusion and lack of repair in a timely fashion indcates a poorly maintained 17 year old house.

There is no way to know how much hidden damage exists...how much hidden mold exists...and, of course...wood destroying insects.

Only you and your family can decide if this house is worth the obvious risks.

Run! Aside from what everyone else mentioned, what happens if you get transferred again and you haven't had time to fix the fixer upperwith water damage and the other stuff you had already known about. You're stuck with someone else's nightmare that you may have a hard time re-selling.

We went through relocation last year at the end of summer/beginning of the school year. We were told that all we needed to get my ds enrolled in the new school was a contract on a house. We opted to let dh move on ahead for a month and we stayed behind in the old house. Ds went to school there for two weeks. It wasn't a perfect situation, but at least ds didn't have to go to two unfamiliar schools.

Thanks everyone. You guys are a great help, I can't even tell you how much. We will take your advice and get out of this contract and I know it's the right thing to do.

We have never moved out of the area before, so this is all new to us. Thank you again for sharing your experiences. We don't know what we will do but at least we won't be going into a nightmarish situation!

I have kids too, so I know the pain of trying to figure out school logistics in a move.

Stick with your gut, and don't buy the water house! A little upheaval for the kids short term is a much better alternative than trying to fix the money pit that house could turn into!

My school district also allows kids to enroll if you bring in a copy of a house contract...maybe see if this is a possibility. My son started school while we were still staying in the Extended Stay!

Good luck!

akkw, so sorry this is turning out like it is, but I think you are making a wise decision. Even if this means a little chaos to start with schools etc. it probably means less chaos in the long run for your family. You don't know if you would have to move out of the other house for any period of time to fix problems and re-mediate the mold so better some chaos now than a lot more later. It will most likley just seem like some chaos of moving anyways and you'll be better off long term.

Yes, akkw, I agree with everyone else. Now is not the time for a dicey house! You will have enough work acclimating to a new city and a new region. The last thing you need is to be getting builder recommendations in a city you don't know, in order to fix up a house that you are living in while trying to repair. You'll get through this with less hassle without the Water House!

akkw - Please do not even think about buying this house!!! I'm shocked you're considering it. Someone made a very good point that if you have to sell in a couple years, then you will be in a position of having to disclose whatever has not been fixed.

The upheaval of your kids moving twice is far better than moving into a money pit.

You guys are all awesome. Thank you!!!

We passed on this house and are still looking. We'll move into temp housing there in less than 2 weeks (my husband left today; the rest of us will follow shortly). Five people in a two-bedroom apartment for a few weeks won't be fun, but at least we'll have some time to buy the right house. Thanks again to everyone who took time to post here and share their opinions/experiences. I hope this thread can help someone else too.

Good luck with everything!! You will look back on all this once you find your "perfect" house and be so thankful that you made this decision.

Good Luck to you and thanks for updating us!!

That's great news, akkw. I take it the seller finally signed off on everything?

Best wishes, akkw. :-)

Glad it all worked out....may you find a lovely DRY home ASAP! :-D

I'm very relieved. And hopeful that you've gotten rid of the realtor who was trying to get you to close on the water house. Your kids will be able to deal w/ the school issues. It's not the end of the world.

BTW, my house is ~50 years old and there's no water stains or bulging ceilings. So in a 17y.o. house, I'd expect no less.