I've watched and read this thread with interest. My mother was the victim of horrible abuse as a very small child at the hands of her father. It was physical and emotional. The emotional abuse continued until he died. My mother left me with my grandparents as an infant and lived on the other side of the country until I was 9. As she wasn't around I was unaware of the acrimony between my mother and grandfather. When she came for a visit the battles began anew with me a pawn in their war. When she moved back to the town we lived in it was all out war most of the time. As I grew older and she lived near by, she began to abuse me. Some of it was subtle and cruel mental/emotional abuse some of it was her venting her fury on me physically with several awful beatings in my teens. Mostly I was aware that I was a symbol of unhappiness for her and she unconsciously wanted to destroy me. And my grandfather never abused me, he expressed affection in his grumpy way. My grandmother told me he felt sorry for me because my mother didn't love me. So that didn't help my relationship with my mother either as you can imagine. She had another child, my half sister. She pushed me away even more and attempted to have me sent away to a juvenile prison. She nearly succeeded. Fast forward. I am an adult with small children of my own. A year of therapy in my late 20s helped me resolve a lot of the painful and conflicted emotions about my mother. The damage exists, though, and still effects my relationships. Therapy and self examination help me to be more aware and conscious of my reactions. That doesn't always keep them from happening, however. I put on my big girl pants and make no excuses. One night when she was visiting and the kids were asleep, she started talking about my grandfather and told me the full tale of the vicious abuse she received and his alcoholism. She had an infant sister that died of leukemia. My grandfather turned his grief and anger on my mother who was three at the time. All news to me including the alcoholism. He was a teetotaler by the time I arrived. I sat there horrified and transfixed. That I knew nothing of this from my grandmother was no surprise as she didn't ever discuss unpleasant family events, ever. (I didn't even know about the infant who died until I stumbled on a family photo of two babies when I was 13 or so, one was obviously my mother, one was not but looked like family. I asked about that baby and my grandmother told me she had died.) How much was true? I will never know. I know my mother reinterprets events to suit her own needs. So I have to consider that. But she thinks it's true. Right then and there I forgave her all the pain I had suffered. Have I forgotten? No. And I keep both myself and my children shielded from her and have little but cursory and cordial contact. She plays obvious favorites with her grandchildren. My sister's kids get lots more attention and regular gifts. My kids understand that Nana J isn't a warm normal grandmother. But out of sight out of mind. Not perfect but not painful, either. I won't comment on your relationships, Tricia, as all families are unique. I'm simply sharing my own story of the multi-generational ripple effects of familial abuse.

Not sure about the mental illness, but it's a great possibility. I have a BIL and SIL who are bipolar. One worse than the other. Another SIL is a recovering drug addict and alcoholic. She did things like your daughter does. She also had abortions and is divorced. I asked two woman once who had had abortion how they felt. If it was painful. They both said physically it was okay. Emotionally it was hell. Maybe your daughter feels like she doesn't deserve to be alive after having so many abortions and losing so many children. Maybe she's trying to destroy herself because of the emotional pain she is suffering because of her choices and then, when she's sober looks for hope, and then gets down again. Up and down! Up and down! Not getting into a long story but one that relates very well with your granddaughter's life. She should be in counselling NOW. My brother and his wife are raising their son's 2 sons because the mother is a drug addict who has caused so much emotional damage to the eldest since he was 4 (now 8). He had a counsellor from Children's Aid come over to the house and she did some "play counselling". It really helped him. He'd do well until the mother would call and say all kinds of stuff to him to turn him against my brother and SIL. They have now decided to cut all ties with her for the kids' sake and resume counselling. It was destroying them. They are dealing with the courts right now. It's not good for your granddaughter to be subjected to her mother's emotional outbursts and all the stuff that's going on. It will only destroy her too, so PLEASE get her into counselling now! Don't mean to sound unfeeling or whatever, but I don't think there's anything you can do now to help your daughter because she NEEDS to want to help herself. BUT.. what you CAN do is make sure your granddaughter doesn't suffer emotional damage because of her mother's actions. She needs to know and understand WHY her mother does the things that she does, and only a qualified professional knows just how much info a little mind can take at a time so as to not overwhelm them too much and cause more damage. Just my opinion. I wish you luck and strength as you go through this with your family. P.S. A friend of mine had a schizophrenic mother who did all kinds of things to her. My friend was 9 years old when she ran away, collecting pop bottles to get something to eat. After 3 days on the street, she'd go to the police. "They" would get the mother back on her meds, then my friend would go back (and her brother). Only this would happen over and over again. She ended up in a total of 40 foster homes. At 16, she was on her own. ONE foster mother gave my friend (aged 15)several books about schizophrenia and told her to read them all so that she could understand WHY her mother did the things that she did. It wasn't because she didn't love her. It was because she was mentally ill. My friend said that reading those books changed her whole world. She didn't hate her mother anymore. On her wedding day, she saw her brother for the first time in a very long time. My friend invited her mother to the wedding. When her brother asked her how she could invite her and still love her after everything that she did to them, my friend told her brother that it's called forgiving and understanding and she'd talk to him about it when he grows up! I have to say that my friend turned out very well. Never did drugs or hit the booze to numb the emotional pain of her childhood. It actually made her stronger. The brother, however, today, is bipolar and smokes drugs! The mother is now deceased, but my friend took care of her by arranging proper care when she was too sick to care for herself. She would also go pick her up to spend Christmas day with her husband and kids. By educating herself about why her mother did the things that she did, she didn't grow up with resentment, hatred, low self-esteem, feeling unloved, etc. She grew up knowing that her mother loved her in her own special way, the only way she could, and was mentally ill, and had "outbursts" when she was not on her meds, etc. Your granddaugther needs to know the same about her mother!

I agree with what Suzieque posted. You're an instigator, Glenda, whether you realize it or not. Many times you have posted something vague, and when folks ask questions, you get your tail feathers up and come out swinging. I agree, hugs are wonderful, and are to be cherished, remembered, and kept close to the heart. But your grandson would have given you huge, happy, loving, heartfelt hugs in response to your gift to him even if he'd given you a gift (cheap gift or expensive gift, or somewhere in between). His hugs in those photographs were in response to the fishing boat you gave him -- they should not have been, and I don't believe they were - his Christmas gift to you. It's even posted, somewhere not too far above: "Posted by glenda_al (My Page) on Tue, Dec 28, 10 at 23:20 If U cannot say anything nice about my gift giving DONT, darn it. I did what I did and that is it, pure and simple! Leave me alone!" So, you were all huffy about perceived reactions to YOU GIVING A GIFT TO YOUR GRANDSON, when, in fact, this entire discussion was started by you with the subject line My gift from GS: it's flat and oval And you could have easily avoided a whole lot of this if, when you finally responded to all of the requests to find out what it was that your grandson gave you, you had said something like, "he, his father, and his stepmother all gave me..." and said what those gift were. Instead, your response as to what your grandson gave you was this: "Hugs, big hugs! That was it. I appreciated that." It's really not fair to call foul when you started it.

Anne: Really appreciate the info. you gave in cooking forum. Since I'm lactose-intolerant I used soy-milk for 2 1/2 decades and was so miserable with insomnia. I got into reading about near-death-experiences and this woman was in a coma for days. She reported while out-of-her body & floating above & she saw wheat-fields being sprayed with poison. When she came back to life, she embarked on organic foods & same with other NDE's. I researched further was shocked to find that wheat and oats are routinely SPRAYED WITH ROUND-UP to desiccate 3 days before harvest. It's shocking that Cheerios cereal is highest at 1,125.3 ppm in glyphosate (weed-killer-residue), versus 9.9 ppm for Trix cereal. Weed-killer (glyphosate residue in foods) mess up one's hormones, contribute to many cancers, plus insomnia. Currently there are 700+ lawsuits against Monsanto for various cancers. Soy, oats, wheat are high in Round-Up residue. Last night we were out of power (due to the storm) from 10 to 11:30 pm. Instead of soy milk and cereal for bed-time-snack, I used almond-milk and gluten-free cereal (imported from Australia) and I had the best sleep ever with vivid-dreams. Round-up weed-killer messes up with one's sleep & UP the risk of many cancers. I was plagued with insomnia, until I cut out cereals & soy-milk before bed-time. See below link in Houzz for data of Round-Up residue in many common foods: [https://www.houzz.com/discussions/worthy-roses-2018-and-favorite-products-and-health-and-glyphosate-round-up-dsvw-vd~5197301?n=107[(https://www.houzz.com/discussions/worthy-roses-2018-and-favorite-products-and-health-and-glyphosate-round-up-dsvw-vd~5197301?n=107)