Determining price when there are no comps?

17 years ago

OK folks...The unimaginable has happened to us. We love our little house & thought we'd retire here. Then, we stumbled across a lonely, little, hand-written "House For Sale" sign by the side of the road about two weeks ago & curiousity got the better of us. So, we drove up the hill on the narrow, single-car lane because we were bored on a cold February afternoon.

At the top of the hill...there it was. In all of it's 1825 glory & proudly flying the American Revolutionary flag over it's pediment sat a white colonial. It sits there surrounded by its protective 4-5' almost 200 year old stone walls still in an amazing state of preservation standing look-out over Mystic Harbor. My husband stopped the car & we sat there silent both staring at the flag moving in the slight, cold breeze. I could almost here the fife & drums playing in the distance as they welcomed home a whaling ship moving through the harbor returning from a two-year absense. Without either of us saying a word, my husband picked-up his cell phone & punched in the numbers of the small sign.

Here's the scoop & ulitimately...my question. Thanks for sticking with me here.

A "wanna-be" builder purchased the home about 18 months ago. It was in a horrible state of disrepair. He purchased when the market was hot, hot, hot. Now, it's not. He and his wife have rennovated the home beautifully. But, they have not "restored" it. It will never again have hopes of qualifying for the historic registry. But, it will live on for many more generations wearing it's new, modern, 21st century facade & interior lay-out.

The builer wrapped the house in vinyl. He did an excellent job. The vinyl was put up to mimic the lines of the original clapboards. From a distance, you'd never be able to spot it. He added a Trek deck off the back. In essence, he eliminated one huge problem with nearly 200 year old homes...outside maintenance. Paint just doesn't stick to these old homes & they cost a fortune to scrape & paint in our coastal climate every 5-7 years.

Of the 8 entrances he started with...four remain. The front door, one into the kitchen, one into the what is now the "family room", and a new set of 9' Anderson sliders onto the new deck overlooking the Harbor. Upstairs, he punched out the back wall & added a floor-to-ceiling Anderson Paladium window again overlooking the Harbor and the deck below. Uupstair, he added two, 21st century bathrooms complete with granite, custom cabinetry, & stone floors. He added a master walk-in closet with built-in cherry cabinetry & more stone flooring. He knocked down a few walls to create an upstairs laundry room with more cabinets than I currently have in my KITCHEN! Again, granite countertops, custom cabinets, & more stone floors. Nooks, crannies, windowseats, cubbies, abound in each bedroom (there are four). Each room is unique & retains all of the original elements. From the second floor, there is access to a walk-up attic with views clear to Block Island & Montauk Point.

Downstairs is where the wonder is most evident. He removed most of the interior walls. To structurally shore-up the house, he had to add support posts. They are wrapped to appear as columns (see pictures). There are four rooms on the first level...all visible down this expansive first floor with the columns that give so much drama. First is the kitchen, then the "keeping room" with fireplace, then a library, then what is now called a "family room" with another fireplace. There is also a wet bar now in this room with more cherry cabinetry, a SS sink, SS frig, & granite counter. There are overhead cabinets with glass doors. This room leads to the deck.

The kitchen has stone flooring, black granite countertops, 48" SS range, custom cherry cabinetry, and a 6' island with a red pine top. There's a small desk built-in over by the back door. It's all anyone could possible expect of a kitchen in a nearly 200 year old house.

We LOVE this house. We want to purchase it. Please help us brain storm how to make an offer. It is priced way too high. The builder knows it. Yesterday, we spent over 2 hours crawling around the house's structural components. It appears beautifully done. We would obviously need more than just a home inspection. We know we'd have to get a real structural engineer to look at this place.

There are ZERO comps. Where do we start? Both my husband & I make our living on real estate. We are not novices to the industry. But this house has been so altered that it falls outside the normal parameters. We are baffled. We've been trying to establish some type of reasonable price per square foot. We believe $235-$240/s.f. is getting close to reasonable. Unfortunately, that's WAY off the builder's number. I looked it up & he paid $542K 18 months ago plus his rennovation costs which we're guessing were around $200K. Plus, he's been incurring construction loan interest charges for a long time. The house also still needs some work done to finish up...about $5,000-$10,000 worth.

This is a unique property. It will appeal to only a select group of potential buyers. We understand that & will take that resell risk. We love this home. Our antique furniture will slide into it & look as though they were made for the home although there are no walls to place them on...there are so many windows & the interior walls have basically been removed except for short 7' "dividers" that separate each living area downstairs.

What can we offer this builder to get him to work with us? We weren't expecting to be purchasing a home. We have to sell ours first. Ours is more saleable than his. Obviously, we haven't applied for mortgage approval but this won't be a problem...it just takes a little time & the builder will have to trust our word that it's OK. What carrot can we offer that would get him to hold this house until we get "our ducks in a row"???

Maybe, allowing him to keep it on the market while we get our place sold...but as soon as ours went under contract he had to commit? Anything else you can think of?

Here's the house...

Tricia

Here is a link that might be useful: 1825 Colonial

Featured Answer

akkw

17 years ago

last modified: 9 years ago

I hate to say it, but it doesn't seem priced that far off to me either. I don't live in CT so you (particularly with your experience in real estate) would be much more knowledgeable in that area.

It looks from the pictures to be very high quality work but I do have to say that I would never have done that kind of renovation on such a classic house. Wow...

Even so, I'll bet this house would appeal to lots of people, actually.

What a view! Unless Mystic, CT is really less expensive than I thought it was, the price just doesn't seem all that far off.

How did the open house go yesterday on this house (from the link you gave)? That might tell you something. My impression from your post was that the house was not listed with an agent, but the link you gave is through an agent. How long has it been listed?

Comments (101)

chisue
16 years ago
last modified: 9 years ago
OTOH, I'ts stood all this time. Lawns can be cut; vines torn down. It's great for YOU that the house has lost its "makeup"! I assume it's battened down against structural damages.

It IS a very large property to maintain for two empty-nesters; maybe that's what you are seeing?
infodivamary3
16 years ago
last modified: 9 years ago
I've got to agree...a day's work for a few landscape workers and a window washer--an investment of less than $1000 would get it back in pristine shape.

Wishful thinking to say that the house is now worth $150K less because of that.

Anyway, it's a good thing that the emotional "tie" is broken. Folks who buy houses with their hearts, rather than their heads, can be making a big mistake.
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triciae
Original Author
16 years ago
last modified: 9 years ago
There comes that word "worth" again!

It is only "worth" whatever I or somebody else is willing to pay for it. Maybe, somebody else will come along & decide it's worth more to them. Worth is entirely in the eyes of the beholder. And, it is worth significantly less to us because it looks like a pile of sh*t right now...if it took a person with vision to see it's potential last February...well, it takes a seer to see it now. Curb appeal, or the lack thereof, can absolutely shave $150K off a property's perceived value. Landscaping is also a tangible asset to a home & this place's landscaping is now trashed. Also, remember...I'm a Master Gardener with the Extension Service so I'm particularily sensitive to landscape issues.

An agent friend of ours is taking us to see a period Italianate this afternoon at 4:30 p.m. He thought we might like its potential. It's in the heart of Mystic...but up on the hill away from flood potential. I'm only sorta looking forward to seeing it...it's hot & humid here this week & the place doesn't have air-conditioning. I imagine it'll be a quick tour of the third floor!

/T
triciae
Original Author
16 years ago
last modified: 9 years ago
Thought I'd share a couple pictures of what this once beautiful home looks like today. This is what happens to homes that you're hearing about on the news that are bundled into these CDOs & then end up in foreclosure. They are now owned by some far away lender who has never seen the property & has not made local arrangements for maintenance. The foreclosure auction was June 4. It doesn't take long in New England for nature to reclaim its land.

I thought the lender had relisted with the same agency that the builder had made a final push to sell with but that proved inaccurate. That agency just kept their sign up through the end of the listing period...it's gone now & they are not actively marketing the property. It's just sitting there abandoned & deteriorating. The neighbors are NOT happy. You can see ruts through what was once the lawn...those were made by the neighbor's tractor about 6 weeks ago in an attempt to make the property look better from their vantage point. I would say the effort was not successful. What a shame...

I have no idea why the pictures came out "jumbo" sized??

Tricia
saphire
16 years ago
last modified: 9 years ago
I like it, it really does look like a few swipes with a mower will make a big difference. This is just cosmetics, if the house is sound I would go for it at the price you want when you are ready to make a bid. Reality is a lot of people have left the market who wanted a bargain, they no longer qualify for a mortgage. Even if rates were to drop, the risk premiums will not
chisue
16 years ago
last modified: 9 years ago
I guess it's that "eye of the beholder" thing. Compared to the property down the street from me (investor holding vacant colonial until city OKs teardown), this looks like it will be fine. I don't see that there was ever some wonderful perennial garden there. Anyway, now you'd be able to dig in, amend the soil, etc. before creating your own landscape plan. That it looks sad and neglected is in your favor -- if you still want such a big place. Would you live there? What about your current home?
solie
16 years ago
last modified: 9 years ago
Looks OK to me. Were there gardens and mature plants that were a big selling point that died off? Because to me it just looks like it needs sod and the bushes trimmed.

I wouldn't want it next door to me, but it wouldn't deter me from buying it.
dgmarie
16 years ago
last modified: 9 years ago
It doesn't look derilict from this angle. So it needs a little yard work. It isn't house on spooky hill by any means.
triciae
Original Author
16 years ago
last modified: 9 years ago
Well, it looks like a derelict to us.

/t
guvnah
16 years ago
last modified: 9 years ago
My 2¢ ----- that is one lovely house! Even with the unkempt yard I would buy it in a heartbeat if I was in your area. I went to the listing realtor's website to see the interior pictures because I missed this post the first time around. Wow. You are right, not everyone's cup of tea but I, like you, appreciate the upgrades. Our last house was a 1910 farmhouse & the previous owners had covered it in siding. We NEVER would have considered doing it, but since it was there we lived with it & grew to love it because there was no upkeep, so I fully understand your point there.

Anyway - back to the listing agents website, there is one house on there MLS ID: E209270 that is listed at $469,500 and it's nowhere near the house you are interested in at $699,900 - not in looks, amenities, square footage or apparently location - no mention of water view. There's another MLS ID: E208510 @ $414,000 and it's only 1877 sq ft & really needs upgrading. You certainly know your area better than I do, but I'm curious how you think this house is now only worth $425-450,000. It is so far above these other two houses in the $400's - in every way - that I don't understand.

I read & appreciate your posts & opinions and am not trying to stir up a "can o' worms", but, looking at just the houses that this one realtor site has in the Mystic area, this house looks like a bargain! Truly spectacular. Think back to the first day you saw it - it could be that way again - even better once you put your touches on it. You've put so much time & thought into getting this house that I sincerely hope you do. I once let the "perfect" house get away because I got stubborn (not saying that you are : ) - no offense intended) & have regretted it ever since.

On the other hand, I've read your descriptions of your current house and it sounds like perfection too & maybe you've just had time to change your mind. So either way you're covered! I just go back to the original post in this thread & it sounded almost magical - how you saw a little sign, drove up to the house, fell in love at first sight & started dialing..... Maybe all of the turmoil surrounding this house has just ruined it for you, but I hope not.

Please keep us posted!
triciae
Original Author
16 years ago
last modified: 9 years ago
And the beat goes on...

I have FINALLY tracked down who owns the house after the foreclosure sale!

I'd been focusing on the mezzanine originating lender. Then, all of our talk on the Forum about the CDOs, etc. got me wondering if this house might be included in some securitized debt instrument somewhere? Turns out that is the case. So, now that I know who owns it...I've got to track down the person (in an institution with tens of thousands of employees) who has the file sitting on their desk. I've got no idea if there's a servicing agreement but I've got to start somewhere.

DH knows some of management so he's going to make a phone call this afternoon to get us started.

It's not over 'til it's over.

/tricia
theroselvr
16 years ago
last modified: 9 years ago
Good luck Tricia! You seem to know what you're doing, which should work in your favor. When I saw the post was bumped back up I wondered if you got the house, hopefully it will happen.
triciae
Original Author
16 years ago
last modified: 9 years ago
I just noticed that my original link to the house is no longer accurate. It takes you to a different house.

Thanks for the encouragement. It pains us to see the house sitting there so unloved.

/t
guvnah
16 years ago
last modified: 9 years ago
I was happy to see activity on this post and, like roselvr, hope you are able to get it. If anybody can get thru the red tape, it's you!
triciae
Original Author
16 years ago
last modified: 9 years ago
Holly Carp!

DH got me a phone number to try. I called & while they couldn't help me they knew who could...isn't that amazing? Maybe, there's hope for all of these foreclosures, afterall. There are real people working on them. The foreclosure sale was almost five months ago but still...there's a person to contact.

I just phoned &, of course, they are not there. Well, it is a beautiful Friday afternoon & DH has escaped his desk as well. So, I won't get crabby 'cause I couldn't talk about the house. Hopefully, she will call me back on Monday.

I'm very excited. A PERSON TO TALK WITH...

Let the negotiations begin!

/tricia
theroselvr
16 years ago
last modified: 9 years ago
Will think positive for you that Monday brings a phone call or someone answers the phone when you call!
chisue
16 years ago
last modified: 9 years ago
YOU may be patient about this, but *I* am not!LOL Anxious to hear what you hear Monday!

Would you please 'splain the chain of events that lead to this institution owning the house?
riosamba
16 years ago
last modified: 9 years ago
Are the interior shots still available online somewhere? I missed this until now and would love to see them!
marys1000
16 years ago
last modified: 9 years ago
Hope all goes well Monday! Sort of thrilling!
eandhl
16 years ago
last modified: 9 years ago
Wishing you luck. That is one beautiful house and deserves to have someone own it that will resurrect the grandeur.
patty_cakes
16 years ago
last modified: 9 years ago
Ohhhhhh Tricia, i'll be putting out good vibes for you! Will be anxiously awaiting your post on Monday!
triciae
Original Author
16 years ago
last modified: 9 years ago
Ya know, sometimes life is scary!

OK, I got a phone call from 'Camille' with the bank. I had a terrible time understanding her accent & English. I guess I should have been suspicious by her last name but; gosh, here in America we have all nationalities & my father's parents were recent immigrants so I'm sympathetic to people who don't speak English as a first language. Anyway, I couldn't understand her & we weren't communicating at all.

Finally, I asked where she was officing from hoping it was close enough I could go in person to speak with somebody. OMG! She's trying to sell US foreclosed properties from INDIA!

She kept saying, "We do not have that property in our data base."

When I asked questions she became flustered & couldn't express her thoughts in English well enough I could understand. I tried to explain about how Mystic is not a real town, that it's divided between Groton & Stonington. I asked her to please check her database using Mystic, Groton, & Stonington to see if anything came up in one of the other towns. She kept repeating the above line. The conversation continued with me telling her that her bank has a foreclosure deed on record in Groton saying they own the property. Camille held to her line..."We do not have that property in our data base."

I asked if there was a local office involved. "We do not have that property in our data base." I asked if it was possible the file just hadn't reached her yet...the foreclosure sale was June 4? "We do not have that property in our data base". I gave up.

OK, the floor is open for suggestions....what do I do next?

/tricia
xamsx
16 years ago
last modified: 9 years ago
Call back and ask to speak to "someone in the United States". Or, call the local CS and ask who the US contact is for foreclosures. Every company outsources and every company has a US contact if you request it.

Here's some call centers but your best bet is the bank directly.

Get human
US call centers
Call centers
mmelko
16 years ago
last modified: 9 years ago
You could also try contacting the law firm that did the foreclosure. Sometimes, they have a local contact person and they might, if they are nice, give you his or her name.

MP
triciae
Original Author
16 years ago
last modified: 9 years ago
I re-phoned the number I started with. After I explained my experience with Camille he told me would call her & see if he got any more info than I was able to extract. He told me to stay by the phone 'cause he was going to call right back & wouldn't have time to bother with my call if he couldn't reach me right away. Geez, helpful guy, huh?

So, ten minutes go by & my phone rings. It's him. Here's what he said...

"We are not owners, but trustees. As per this address there's no records found in our data base regarding this property."

"Trustees"..."no record in data base"...June 4 foreclosure date...thinking, thinking, thinking.

I bet this institution has bundled this foreclosed property into a security instrument & sold it off. DH told me over the weekend that he's starting to get calls asking if he would be interested in purchasing "blocks" of foreclosures.

Still thinking...talking/typing out loud. Hmmm

This never was just an ordinary mortgage. The originating lender was a NYSE-traded mezz lender. They were also the foreclosing lender/agent. I've already spoken with the counsel they used to handle the foreclosure. He, along with DH & I, were the only ones at the foreclosure auction so he knew who I was. But, he said that his contact person was no longer responsible for the property. That was at least 3 months ago. He wouldn't give me his contact person's name/phone number citing attorney/counsel privacy. He did tell me though that he'd never met the guy...all of their communication had been done by phone, email, & fax. No representative of the lender was present at the foreclosure sale. Counsel just announced the lender's bid & closed the sale. We never even had a chance to bid even though we showed up with $70K for a deposit!

Now, the lady that handles the land recordings in Groton has told me that they now have a foreclosure deed although it's not been officially recorded yet. (I'd asked her to phone me if anything came through on this house.) The name on the deed is not the same lender that foreclosed. That must be where the "trustee" comes into play? But why?

So, how do I find out who they were "trustee" for & why?

Nobody's been maintaining the property. I probably shouldn't say this but yesterday DH & I went to the house looking (we drive over there almost every weekend dreaming about it). DH took his camera because I wanted to post a few pixs here. His intent was to snap through the windows. Well, being experienced lenders who often need to get inside abandoned/vacant properties & deciding the photos would be better from inside....let's just say I've got lots of photos now.

So, it's not maintained & nobody seems to have it in their 'data base'....sounds like the paper is being shuffled & sold here/there & everywhere with nobody actually doing anything with the physical property...just the paper.

So, if it's been sold again...how am I going to figure out who to? Bank of New York - Mellon just flatly denies knowing anything about it yet the deed's in their name?

In the meantime, the first freeze gets ever closer & the house isn't winterized & it's also filthy.

I'd like to post pixs (from yesterday) but the last time I posted some they came out huge. I use TinyPic...anybody know how to make them smaller? Also, does anybody know how I can find somebody to buy this house from? Oh, I've also spoken with the 3 REAs who had the listing while the builder still owned it...as Cramer would say, "They know nothing!"

/tricia
xamsx
16 years ago
last modified: 9 years ago
Triciae, two thoughts - would the attorney at the foreclosure be willing to forward your name & phone number? He may not be able to give you any info, but couldn't he forward your info? The name on the land deed is the owner. If it is an LLC the state will require a NAZ for the agent. Send a registered letter to the NAZ on the deed.

To resize your pics in paint:
- start
- programs
- accessories
- paint

- file
- open
(select the pic to work on)
- image
- stretch skew
type in the percentage size you want to decrease to in stretch. Leave the default zero in skew. Click "ok". The picture will decrease, now "save as". Now upload the smaller picture.

If you have photoshop, someone else with have to help. I haven't used photoshop for a few years and I've forgotten all I ever knew.
mmelko
16 years ago
last modified: 9 years ago
Wow. Who pays the taxes on the property?

I just stumbled over a property that is in the process of being foreclosed we think - we found an envelope on the property from the mortgage company so we at least can call the mortgage company loss prevetion dept. and hope someone knows something.

My agent at least was able to pull the cancelled listing from her MLS. While that only tells us the listing price (ooh boy way way out of line (high) for the neighborhood) I still can only hope somebody somewhere at the mortgage company knows something. This house is in the same condition as yours - only its been vacant since May of 2005 and the owners have cleaned out and taken all of the chandeliers and light fixtures and appliances. The owners have moved to Texas and that's all we know about their whereabouts - can only hope they did a deed in lieu of foreclosure as finding them will be tough.

She's talking about doing a short sale, but, if the listing price ($397K) is any indication of what the mortgage is - OMG - the closest comp we can find is $220K most are well below $200K.

Why is it so easy to fall in love with the difficult properties?

I'll be pulling for you. It's near criminal to let a nice property go to seed like that.

MP
chisue
16 years ago
last modified: 9 years ago
Could this forum be first to uncover a new "angle" in the already messy mortgage mess?

We've seen exposees on inflated assessments for mortgage purposes and people "selling" properties they don't own (mainly churches and other institutions with neglected land). How many properties like Tricia's focus of interest are the spurious "value basis" for yet more "paper"?

This can only get worse as non-RE-savvy financials "own" real estate.
chisue
16 years ago
last modified: 9 years ago
Tricia, this is really far out, but could you find out if there is insurance on this house? (Have to admit that I worked back to that question after thinking...arson.)
patty_cakes
16 years ago
last modified: 9 years ago
Tricia, very intersting scenario. How maddening, wanting to make a purchase of a property that has been horribly neglected, and not be able to get any info. Xamsx's idea of giving the attorney your name/phone# could be a step in the right direction, as is chisue's.

Good luck with this mystery.
triciae
Original Author
16 years ago
last modified: 9 years ago
Yeah, I'm going to write a letter to the attorney & see if anything happens.

I'm sure whoever owns the property has it covered under an umbrella policy. That's assuming that somebody KNOWS they own it & have forwarded it along to the insurance company. I've always had to update insurance policies on REOs once/month so I'm assuming that's pretty standard practice.

chisue...I imagine there are investors who are now buying pools of these foreclosures at a steep discount & thinking they can flip them still making 20-30%. I wonder though if these investors realize that real estate is a high maintenance asset?

Who knows about the taxes? For now, they are current. lol Maybe, in a couple years if nobody claims it we can pick it up at tax sale for next to nothing!

/tricia
deege
16 years ago
last modified: 9 years ago
At this rate, you could probably just move in and nobody would notice! LOL
theroselvr
16 years ago
last modified: 9 years ago
Tricia, maybe your hubby bought it for you as a gift and is enjoying watching you figure out what's going on? LOL

Deege, funny
mmelko
16 years ago
last modified: 9 years ago
Tricia - I didn't mean check to see if the taxes are paid, but who pays the taxes as I would hope that the company servicing the taxes would also have a file on the property or a contact.

MP
triciae
Original Author
16 years ago
last modified: 9 years ago
Since this wasn't a 'regular' mortgage, I'm sure there's no particular company paying the taxes as if it were a residential mortgage with an escrow account for taxes & insurance.

The builder would have been responsible then the foreclosing lender...now, who knows?

/t
punamytsike
16 years ago
last modified: 9 years ago
triciae, very interesting.

This was exactly what I was asking in my other post and it seems that this type of situation can create lots of wrinkles.

Do keep us posted of this saga, as it is good learning experience for me and I am sure for others as well :)
triciae
Original Author
16 years ago
last modified: 9 years ago
degee,

That's actually not such a bad idea! We'd be squatters & whoever owns the place would have to get a court order to evict us. By that time, we could negotiate a sale! Hmmmm

/tricia
deege
16 years ago
last modified: 9 years ago
Now that is definitely thinking out of the box! I work in the bankruptcy & foreclosure division of a major mortgage firm...it could take years to get you out of there! :)
triciae
Original Author
16 years ago
last modified: 9 years ago
The plot thickens!

I have just had a lengthy conversation with a spokesperson for what's left of the originating lender. The lender went BK. The foreclosure deed is in the name of the BK Trustee. All employees have been let go except a skelton crew in the servicing department. All assets of the originating lender are being managed via the BK Court.

But, but...

This servicing fella I just spoke with also looked in the now infamous 'data base' to no avail. He was very helpful & tried looking under various address/towns/names, etc. Nothing, nada.

It seems this property has somehow slipped through the preverbial cracks.

So, I'm going to wait until I can get a copy of the foreclosure deed. Hopefully, on the deed there is a BK number that I can use to contact the BK court. Right now, I don't even know which state the lender filed in?

We may end up owning this place via adverse possession after all? :)

/tricia
deege
16 years ago
last modified: 9 years ago
Wow! I have heard things like this happen, but I've never actually known of a real case! Aside from the headache of research, how exciting! Keep us posted. Better than TV!!
mmelko
16 years ago
last modified: 9 years ago
Great job Tricia. If you happen to know the name of the bankrupt company, or when you get it and you are having trouble finding out information about the bankruptcy - drop me an email and I'll see if I can use my lawyer skills to find out more for you.

I have been able to track down the owners of the house I am pining over (not to mention a couple of relatives) and we have phone messages and letters every where. I just hope they call my agent so we can get this ball rolling before foreclosure.

Maryanne P
marys1000
16 years ago
last modified: 9 years ago
What is adverse possession?
triciae
Original Author
16 years ago
last modified: 9 years ago
Adverse possession is when somebody takes possession of another's property without compensation & uses it as their own for some period of time. It's usually statute law & the time frame required to quiet title varies by state.

DH (who's an attorney) & I were discussing last night whether a bankrupt corporation would have the same rights as an individual in an adverse possession case. While I know that, in some cases, corporations are treated as a person...in this case, when the corporation is bankrupt, there would never be any 'heirs'. And, the Trustee's job would also end when the corporation's bankruptcy is concluded. So, my position is that it might be possible to file a motion to quiet title sooner than the twenty years required here by statute. We had a fun debate!

/tricia

PS The other alternative is to wait until it goes to tax sale (2 year).
mmelko
16 years ago
last modified: 9 years ago
Or just buy it from the Bankruptcy Trustee. Seems to make more sense. But I have found lately that sense has nothing to do with anything. :)

We got a call back from the owners of the property that I am looking at and he told my agent that the bank told him that he could not sell the property as the bank had already foreclosed on it. But the bank told my loan officer person that if we wanted the property - the bank did not have title and we would have to work out a sale with the owners.

Guess it's back to the bank on Tuesday morning - this time with a letter from the owners so my R.E. can talk to the loss mitigation people and get this straightened out.

What a mess.

Good luck to you Tricia - all you have to do set up house for 20 years more or less - open and notorious - You don't have any plans for the next couple of decades, do you?
:-))
newgardenelf
16 years ago
last modified: 9 years ago
make an offer -see what happens...I am a Realtor and do BPOs for banks-most foreclosures in New England are going to agents or auction and selling for close to what is owed the bank. Builders are notorious for being over extended in their own homes often owing more than it is worth- he may not even be able to sell for less but an offer will reveal that- I say the most telling is his second counter offer.
try_hard
16 years ago
last modified: 9 years ago
Tricia -- Have been following this most intriguing post. Any update? The suspense is killing me.
Try_Hard
triciae
Original Author
16 years ago
last modified: 9 years ago
Yes, Try_Hard...there is more news & none of it good.

It's gotten to be such a convoluted mess & taking so much time that we've engaged a REA to help play Sherlock Holmes. If we end up with a contract, we'll pay him 3%.

Our counsel has told us on Monday that the builder filed a 'death bed' BK just before the foreclosure auction. I searched the online info & couldn't find it. I phoned the state's attorney at 4:30 p.m. on Friday before the auction to check for a BK filing & he told me nothing was filed. That's one of the things the REA will be doing...hunting down all of these docs & getting us hard copies. So, if the builder still owns the property adverse possession may not make any sense. We actually know where the builder is & how to contact him. We've not done it because we thought the property was foreclosed. There is a foreclosure deed at Town Hall.

In the meantime, there's been some minor vandalism at the property. Somebody has shot what looks like a BB at the kitchen & broken a window. The glass isn't shattered but will need replacing.

I go through periods where I'm excited & feel like we can make this happen & other days feel it's a lost cause. Hopefully, the REA can devote some time to sniffing out the trail. But, for now...the house is lost in a sea of AHM bankruptcy filings.

I went to look another house yesterday. It's a colonial also. Built in 1799 & sitting on 6.5 beautiful acres. It does not have the view of Mystic Harbor but it's a lovely property. As nice as it is...I just didn't get that same feeling as when I first saw 'our' 1825 colonial. But, I'll drag DH over to look at this other one Sunday anyway.

/tricia
mmelko
16 years ago
last modified: 9 years ago
I know just what your are feeling Tricia. My DH wants to look at another house "just in case."

Our REA isn't very good at sniffing out anything. I've done all of the leg work on this. She told us to hire an attorney (since my DH works for a Trial Lawyer Association - we know a few) so we did. Don't know what to do about paying her. We feel like we owe her something for showing us houses.

I found a senior mortgage in favor of a town who loaned the owners money to start up a shop in their town. As collateral they gave the town a lien on the property I want - so it's ahead of the Bank of America mortgage (the one foreclosing) - I'm concerned only in how that might affect the amount of the bid by the bank at the auction. I just know that BoA has to know about the senior mortgage - the foreclosure attorney listed his expenses which included a title update and a title rundown. I've called their office several times and left messages to no avail. All I can do at this point is to attend the sale and see what happens. I've ordered the certified funds check - the sale is Oct. 30th. I'll be holding my breath.

MP
triciae
Original Author
16 years ago
last modified: 9 years ago
MP,

I hope you have better luck than we did. We also showed up at the auction with $70K ready to bid. In our case, the attorney wasn't "approved" (whatever THAT meant) to accept "a penny" more than their bid amount. How stupid is that? It's no wonder these lenders are losing their shirts!

/tricia
marys1000
16 years ago
last modified: 9 years ago
Tricae - Well you are getting more info so there is hope.
meanwhile - how do you mentally clean your emotional palate so to speak and really think about what you want. Just the view? With the attendent wind and storms? What else do you like? Don't like?
I guess I'm afraid that your won't be seeing clearly when you look at the other house. Or heck, reevaluate staying right where you are.

Determining price when there are no comps?

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