It is unbelievable what is happening now, but it was a predictable outcome of the vaccine blather that so many parents (including Jenny McCarthy - one of the most visible proponents) bought into. Spreading the hysteria that vaccinations caused autism.

So predictable and so very sad. Diseases that were believed eradicated are now coming back with a vengeance. Because they were never eradicated, they were controlled through vaccination antibodies.

And the most horrifying thing about all this hysteria is that the "study" that so many people bought in to was a complete fraud. Just Horrifying:

Here is a link that might be useful: The Lancet Retracts Fraudulent Autism and Vaccine Study

This post was edited by tally on Tue, Apr 29, 14 at 22:29

Our province just went through a measles outbreak and just this week it was declared over. Alberta has just announced today that it now has a measles outbreak.

Our outbreak was in an area of private religious schools whose students do not need to be immunized. Whether that has anything to do with it I don't know.

This has been a popular subject on our family/friends FB pages~~~there is one gal that does not believe in vacs. It sent all of the other young moms in a rage. It is a hot subject and very sad~~~here in California when my kids went to school you HAD to have your shots kept up to date. I am not sure if that is the same now, I have heard a few states are saying you can sign a waver say you do not believe in it. Could this be true??

Yes, you can sign a waiver if you do not want your child vaccinated, most of them citing religious reasons even if that isn't so.

I worked public health for nearly 20 years and one of the main objectives was making sure children were vaccinated and up to date. In all those years I never encountered a serious reaction other than a sore injection site or elevated fever.

I have a granddaughter-in-law that is adamantly against vaccines and their 18 month old girl has not had any and she's pregnant again. She's Russian and posts on her FB page all the time these articles that she claims support her ideas and all her friends with babies are right with her so I'm sure there will be more outbreaks of disease. She's from the St. Louis area as so many of her relatives and friends so won't be surprised it there is an increase in that area.

She won't listen to any of us regarding the need for vaccines. Before I retired from the health dept., we had many Amish and Mennonites in this area that at one time didn't get their children immunized, but as time passed they were coming in and getting vaccines for their children.

In public schools in the state of WA! you have to have a medical professional sign a waiver for you. You used to be able to just "claim" yourself..now it must be signed off by an MD.
In our schools over the last month we have had about 4 confirmed "immunized" Pertussis cases. These were in school age and adults that were fully vaccinated.

In my school of 500 students we may have 4 unimmunized children.

I wish I could take some of these anti-vaccine parents for a walk through an old cemetery. Gravestones tell a graphic tale of what often happened in pre-vaccine times. All those poor little souls and heartbroken parents....

yoga lady you can, and we did as far back as the 1950's, on some offered in school...and my mother was very lax except for the first shots (I still have the old fashion scar ) but growing NEVER saw a dr on a yearly basis til I was very sick. I had measles and the flu at my grandmother's that came close to taking me (but before the measle vac) 1950?
even now at 67 had shots...with 9 grands?? you better bet...do have 1 dil who is a just as needed...even though now peds office now give separate dose shots and no more of the "large bottle" with suspected problems...

Some doctor's offices are refusing to see patients if they have not been vaccinated, for the health of their other patients.

Susan, they give MMR (measles, mumps, rubella) and Varicella (chicken pox) combined now.

Children now get "inactive" Polio.

However, the spacing and multi shot protocol has changed a bit.

My concern is the fact that pertussis..has begun to present even in fully vaccinated people.

Now what?

This is another case of the human 'skeptic' gene being misapplied. You'd think parents would at least notice the graphic advertising about *shingles* and recognize THAT reason for protecting their children against chicken pox.

Personally, I am *VERY* anti-drug and anti-medical, but as someone who's done an obscene amount of research on late 1800s life in America, I can tell you, we are living in times that our great-grandparents would consider purely "miraculous."

Did you know that the tracheotomy was developed in response to diphtheria?

Diphtheria was very fatal in young children and there probably was not a worse way to die. A growing leathery membrane grew in the back of the throat, and closed up the trachea, slowly suffocating the young patient.

Diphtheria comes from the Greek word meaning, "leather hide."

It was known as "The Srangling Angel" (horrible name, but accurate).

In 1895, a doctor invented an anti-diphtheria serum which showed promising results.

And the Iditarod is now an annual event, commemorating a race to save the children of Nome, Alaska when the diphtheria epidemic broke out there.

In 1925, mushers rushed anti-toxin across the most dangerous parts of Alaska, in a desperate bid to save the children of Nome. They completed the arduous 674 mile journey in an unbelievable five days (a trek which normally took 15+ days).

When I was researching my family in Wisconsin, I discovered that there was a farm family in that area that had buried seven of their eight children from *ONE* outbreak of diphtheria.

The newspaper reported that the "eighth child was doing poorly."

So while I am VERY anti-drug and anti-medical, I have no patience with parents that choose not to vaccinate. I wish that we could talk to that farm family in Wisconsin and see what they'd have to say about our modern medical miracles.

I am 100% in favour of vaccinating children. I was born just in time to get the polio vaccine before I contracted it. Many children in my school did not and suffered from polio - some with lasting effects. I was also vaccinated against TB. Of course I did catch chicken pox, measles and mumps since the vaccines had not been invented - how I wish they had been.

I have not had the shingles vaccine. Cost aside (neither our provincial health plan or my husband's company plan will cover it) my doctor said it works 50/50 so for the moment I am not getting it. And she does not necessarily recommend it for me.

Not only are we now dealing with epidemics because of the failure to vaccinate, but we are about to be faced with a serious epidemic of diseases that are resistant to antibiotics. We've known for a decade that this was coming. We knew that we've been overusing antibiotics and bacteria were becoming resistant. And these resistant bacteria can infect any of us.

But this new study from the World Health Organization is truly frightening. They are predicting that the coming Antibiotic crisis will be bigger than AIDS.

Here is a link that might be useful: Coming Antibiotic Crisis Worse Than AIDS

My younger two have NEVER had an antibiotic.
They get a cold now and then..but we let their bodies do what they should.
We also did not immediatley "drug" them when they had low fevers. Again, let their bodies do what was needed.

When we had a confirmed cases of Pertussis at our school..it was "highly" recommended that all in close proximity even with zero symtoms be on a 5 day prophylactic antibiotic by the Health Dept. I refused. I had no symptoms at all. Nor did the majority of people/children..who did take them.

This is another reason for the resistant "curse".. Or the kids who have 3 rounds of antibiotics for a case of Strep...

'Cillian's and cyn's" thrown at every little thing are not helping!

The problem is that even though you may not have had any antibiotics, many have, and the bacteria have become resistant along the way.

So if any of us become infected with a resistant strain of bacteria, it won't matter if we ourselves have never taken an antibiotic. The bacteria have evolved to resist our arsenal to cure.

Terri, that's interesting. I did the same with my children (and myself).

Problem is, I had to take an antibiotic in 2002 for an abscessed tooth, and I told the dentist, I can't remember if I've ever had an antibiotic, but I might not have.

He gave me a child's dose, and it left me bedridden for several days. I had to stop taking it because it wreaked havoc with my entire body.

I don't know how people can take that stuff so often!!!

It's powerful!

I went through school with a girl who was very short, and wore a body brace. She had polio.

I got the mumps, measles and chicken pox. It was encouraged for kids to get them, then they wouldn't be able to get the disease again.

A few weeks ago 500 kids were not allowed to go to back to school until they got their immunization. There are measles going around in our area.

There's a lot of talk about antibiotics not being able to ward off a lot of diseases.......super-bugs. Everyone rushes to get drugs as soon as they get a cold, that their bodies are immune to the anti-biotics. What's really bad, is that a lot of our food is treated with those chemicals, which amplifies the problem.

terri and rosemary, like you, I and many others are also extremely against the use of antibiotics unless it's absolutely necessary. But unfortunately, tally is correct in stating that it doesn't matter how little we have used them, because the fact that so many others have overused them has caused the bacteria to become super resistant to all of us, whether we've ever taken an antibiotic or have used them often. It is very scary to know that we might soon be facing the prospect that even the slightest little infection could kill us.

It is very scary to know that we might soon be facing the prospect that even the slightest little infection could kill us.

Just like the old days.

Before the advent of antibiotics, women died from blisters, caused by ill-fitting shoes and men died from simple cuts.

My friends who have a 3 year old tell me the pediatricians are not giving antibiotics for ear infections now. A few years ago when I had pink eye, I called my doctor and was told they are not treating pink eye any more.
I feel strongly that all children should be vacinated. I read that California and NY have measles outbreaks now.

I am also very anti-"drug" (for any little problem) and anti-antibiotic (for any little problem) but I do believe that vaccines are essential. When my Grandson was going to be born in w few months, and we had Pertussis in our state, I got the DTap booster, just to be safe.

I agree about the vaccinations and antibiotics. I remember as a young child in the 50s, everyone standing in line at our school to get the "sugar cube" polio vaccine. Whole families were in line.

One way to avoid antibiotics is to not eat meat, especially beef and chicken. We never buy meat and rarely eat it when we go out. I've heard that there are antibiotics in the water now, from people flushing their pills down the drain. Very scary.

I worry about women who are pregnant around these diseases, especially measles. Imagine being a pregnant teacher these days!

One way to avoid antibiotics is to not eat meat, especially beef and chicken. We never buy meat and rarely eat it when we go out.

Your meat supply is safe. Don't believe all the fear mongering that the media puts in place. Antibiotics have to be out of the animals system before they are sent to market.

Your livestock producer eats the same meat you do - we don't want it in our food either. Look for US beef.

I also will not touch organic beef. I know what an organic beef carcass can look like. Abscessed livers! It's disgusting. This is where your e-coli outbreaks come from! I would eat uninspected meat from Mexico before I would eat any organic meat. You won't hear that from the media.

Like I said above..all of the cases of whooping cough(pertussis) in our school district were FULLY vaccinated children.
I think the final number was 5 out of our whole student population. 1 elementary out of 5 had 2 cases, 2 at high school and 1 at 1 of 2 middle schools. About 5000 students.
So Vaccines do work..but you are not totally immune..same with the Varicella(Chicken Pox) vaccinated children can and do get it, just mild cases.

As to my own children being antibiotic free...I understand how it works..with the "super bugs", but my hope is that they will still have strong enough immune systems on their own..that will help fight whatever it may need to.

Antibiotics are worse on my system, than whatever I may have needed them for...

Iowa_Girl, I have wondered about that (anti-biotics and our meat supply). I don't eat a lot of red meat these days, but I do enjoy a good hamburger from time to time!

I've been doing research on TNT poisoning during WW1 (developed by the women who worked in American shell-loading plants). The TNT poisoning caused their bone marrow to produce too few red and white blood cells. Some women died from the exposure to TNT.

The anti-dote was eating plenty of meat and drinking lots of milk. They found that the women who ingested lots of both of these substances fared far better.

Today, red meat is a dirty word.

Thanks for your comments. VERY interesting!!!

Measles is now sweeping through Ohio.

There have been 68 cases of measles reported in Ohio, which is the most cases reported since 1996.

Just a random poll - how many people here know a child who has not had *any* vaccinations? I know TWO and both are related to me.

Here is a link that might be useful: Ohio Measles Outbreak

If these parents who don't want their kids vaccinated ever saw people (especially kids) going through pertussis (whooping cough) and some of the other diseases that used to be so common, they'd want their kids vaccinated, in my opinion.

When I was about 8, five out of the six kids in my family got whooping cough, and my baby brother had colic. My folks were walking the floor all night with two sick little ones. My youngest sister weighed 20 pounds at one, and 18 pounds at two from coughing so much. My oldest sister and I coughed so hard, we coughed up blood constantly. When we ran, even as adults, we still hacked that same cough.

Hi all! I just wanted to clear up a couple of misconceptions about vaccines, since many who don't vaccinate actually DID vaccinate but had to stop due to problems. Others choose not to after seeing someone else they love go through vaccine-related problems. Vaccine inserts can really be interesting reading as they state the percentages of the problems; death is even a side-effect, and even if it's only 1-in-500,000, that one child is someone's baby.

I personally stopped vaccinating after two of my four children experienced vaccine-related injury. I'm lucky that neither died but one will never be the same. I could show before/after photos of the hour before and the hour/days/weeks afterwards; some people don't even think those pictures are the same child when they look at them.

Instead of walking someone through a cemetary, I'd love to walk people through the days before and then after my son's 14 mth vaccines. The screams, the head banging, the pain...I guarantee it would give you pause and help you to understand what a vaccine can actually do to some people. It's easy to say "everyone should vaccinate" and bash those who don't, but they are people with stories you may never know. A friend of mine lost her child to seizures immediately following a vaccine. (Seizures are known side-effects on the inserts.) To say he's acceptable loss or collateral damage for the good of society is mind-blowing to me, yet some say that. No child is acceptable loss.

One thing to think about is that if vaccines work, the unvaccinated aren't hurting anyone. We also don't cave in to the pressure to vaccinate our children so that someone else's baby or parent won't get sick, because each parent's priority is their own child. Once a parent sees their child become violently ill after a vaccine, most won't do it again; if a child is allergic to peanuts and could die, we don't expect them to give the child peanuts again, so why would we give them a vaccine that makes them deathly ill? As a society, we understand that people are allergic to penicillin or peanuts, but why can't we accept that some bodies can't tolerate the mixture of 17+ ingredients in a vaccine? Scientifically, it's impossible that some people out there won't react negatively.

One of my children received the chicken pox vaccine. She then got chicken pox...twice. Vaccines aren't foolproof. The pertussis 'epidemic' in California? Over 90% were vaccinated. The measles 'epidemic' in California now consists of 20-22 people, none who died, and some of them were vaccinated, too; they're still trying to determine all the routes of transfer but found at least several cases were passed by a guy who had just returned from overseas...in other words, the unvaccinated had zip to do with it.

There are a lot of myths out there about vaccines, and while I'm not against vaccines, I won't give my children something that I know makes their bodies sick. Maybe they're part of the minority, but it doesn't make them any less important than anyone else out there. Even their doctors are on board. Not vaccinating isn't as black and white as it sounds, and most parents who choose to selectively vaccinate, or stop entirely, have read volumes of actual medical material and researched 'til the cows come home. Jenny McCarthy has oh so little to do with it, and usually someone who tells me "Oh, you listen to that ex-bunny?" says more about their lack of education in the area than me at all.

Right now, I'm far more worried about the true epidemic this country is facing, and that's autism. 1-in-54 kids is now affected and people aren't 'freaking out -- we need to be freaking out, because eventually, at this rate, it's going to be in every family, and we don't know why. That's a real medical concern.

Have a good evening!

Thank you for sharing your perspective and showing us another facet of this complicated issue. I'm so sorry you and your child have had this experience.

Regarding the autism epidemic, it has been said that the numbers are so huge because we didn't used to diagnose it. But I find that explanation hard to accept. I tend to think the cause must be something we used to do that we stopped doing, or (more likely) something we're doing now that we didn't do before.

I feel someone should take a long, hard look at prenatal ultrasounds, for starters. Also, I recently read some appalling statistics about prescription drugs given to pregnant women, including opiod painkillers. This begs to be investigated as well.

And I wouldn't be surprised if someday the current trend to induce labor is found to be a mistake.

"There are a lot of myths out there about vaccines"

Yeah, it's true, and you seem to have swallowed all the unfounded ones.

I'm sure you're well intentioned. Make sure your kids get proper health care and be sure they receive all reasonable preventative measures, like vaccinations. Don't pretend that your understanding of the issues and assessment of risks are properly informed, because they're not.

Vaccinating kids is a black and white matter. Period.

I am very pro-vaccine, but I think there is a big difference between someone who doesn't vaccine because a celebrity told them not to, and someone who stops vaccinating due to a serious reaction in their child.

Herd immunity is designed to protect everyone, including those who can't get vaccines for whatever reason - age, compromised immune system, and bad reactions (beyond sore arm, temporary fever, etc.)

That being said, I do 100% agree that way too many people are choosing not to vaccinate without a valid reason and it's hurting the herd immunity. I think it's trendy and unsupported, but that doesn't mean there aren't legitimate exceptions.

I plan to have kids soon, and they will be vaccinated, but I can't in good faith say I won't stop if I see a severe reaction (and by severe I mean life-threatening). I would have to weigh the severity of the reaction against the possibility of catching and spreading the disease. I can't imagine anyone would be willing to let their child become a statistic for the greater good.

Alisande, you bring up some very interesting ideas and I have to agree with you. Look at all the things pregnant women go through now that were unheard of years ago.

How do they know that ultrasounds are really safe, especially when a woman may get several, not for any reason but to know the sex of the baby.

I think that inducing labor is only for the safety of the mother and baby, not because the Dr. may be out of town on the delivery date, or the Mother wants the baby to be born on a certain day. That to me is introducing unneeded medication into the system that shouldn't have it.

This should have been posted in Hot Topics, because it sure is a hot topic!!!

One of my sons had a reaction to the pertussis vaccination (he ran a temp of 105º) the night he got his 1st DPT shot. I told our Pediatrician about this via a phone call, and was instructed to NEVER let Brad have another pertussis shot. He was so adamant about this that when I brought my twins in for their next shots (12 weeks later) the doctor sat down and talked with me about this. Scared me, that's for sure!

My youngest son never had chicken pox (5 - 6 people in my extended family have a natural immunity), but our public school INSISTED that Mark get the vaccine. Bear in mind he was exposed to chicken pox 15 times...and I do mean exposed...as in close, personal contact. I got him vaccinated, and sure enough he got chicken pox. And it was a VERY SEVERE case. Bear in mind, the kid was in 3rd grade. He's my 4th child, his siblings all had them...nothing like what Mark got. I called the school to tell them, and now it's a reportable event. What a load of crap! I had to report all about what, where, when, how, etc...this took a lot of my time and effort. If I had to do it over again, I would have found a way to avoid giving him that vaccine.

Not everything is black and white.

Mama, so sorry to hear about your daughter. Having chicken pox not once, but twice after vax must be very scary. She must have a very low immunity, which must be very alarming.

I have no doubt that some bodies have terrible responses to vaccination, but I have no idea what the statistical occurrence is in the overall population. I'm sure each parent must make decisions based on their own child.

Not sure if your last comment was implying a link between autism and vaccinations, but I'm sure you are aware that the British study that started the hysteria was found to be fraudulent and the doctor's medical license was revoked.

Anyway, thanks for your perspective, and welcome to the Kitchen Table - I see you joined yesterday.

Nothing in life is black and white, but we see what we experience, I suppose, and after seeing my children struggle, that's all the proof I need. My job is to protect my child, not to worry about herd immunity.

FWIW, my children are rarely ill. My friends who fully vaccinate without even reading the inserts or let their children have shots while ill? Sick monthly. Our bodies are made to handle a lot more than we let them, and we're killing those natural responses.

In the end, I just hope that people can respect others' choices and realize that we each have to put our own children first. What I saw happen to my children trumps any 'scientific' proof because no one can yet say what causes autism. (And I do wonder, too, what about meds during pregnancy...ultrasounds, etc. Great point!)

If you want to read more, read about the national vaccine court awards. They've continually given away money to families with medical proof that vaccines have critically injuried their children. One of my friends lost her child to seizures immediately following a vaccine...a vaccine whose insert said that a side-effect is seizures. Another friend's child is brain damaged and in diapers in her 20's. No matter what the good side of vaccines may be, the fact is that there are side-effects, and we have a right to protect our child from being one. They are not acceptable losses to protect herd immunity. I hope it never happens to anyone here, but if it did, it sure would make you think differently, I guarantee. Most people survive measles, but autism, brain damage and death...they're pretty permanent.

Have a good day.

Have just heard from a friend who has been diagnosed with whooping cough and is very ill. These childhood diseases hit adults much harder and could happen to more of us.

Mama, thank you so much for the tip about the National Vaccine Injury Compensation Program (VICP)! I was very interested in this, and decided to look into it. I was surprised to find that the Department of Health and Human Services has actually been tracking vaccination injuries since 1989.

Between 1989 through March 5 2014, a total of 3,540 claims have been compensated through the program, and another 9,734 claims were dismissed.

But the statistics they have published since 2006 are even more interesting.

Between 2006 and 2012:
1,300 claims were compensated.
1,968,399,297 doses of vaccines were distributed.

Again, I think every parent should do what they feel is best. But the vaccination injuries (at least those documented by actual compensated claims) versus the number of dosages administered over the same time period is 0.000066% by my calculation.

Just something to think about. If this were a peanut allergy I wouldn't recommend that everyone stop eating them.

Truthfully, I think we are only beginning to see the effects of non-vaccination. The real effects may not hit us for a decade, if not more.

Edited to add: 698 of the compensated claims between 2006-2012 were for Influenza vaccinations. If we back Flu vax out of both the doses and the claims, the number of claims to dosages drops slightly to 0.000052%.

Here is a link that might be useful: HHS: Vaccination Injury Compensation Program

This post was edited by tally on Fri, May 16, 14 at 0:30

Alisande, I totally agree with you. I think there are many suspects that might be contributing to autism AND, while we're discussing it - I'm alarmed at the number of kids being diagnosed and medicated (drugged) for various attention deficit disorders.

Tally, it is truly alarming. I think the word "disorder" is grossly overused, and meds appallingly overprescribed. Sadly, we've become a pharmaceutical society.

Just last night I read some nasty statistics about a potentially lethal combination of drugs (narcotics and sedatives) commonly prescribed to veterans. But what we are doing to our children seems even worse.

What are medical students being taught today??

Tally, that is some excellent ciphering.

Utterly fascinating, and it really spells out the issue. Contrast that with the fact that, in the late 1800s, 20% of children did not make it to their 18th birthday.

When these epidemics went through town, the children were the ones who suffered the most. If a child survived Scarlet Fever or Diphtheria, there was a fair chance the child would be "crippled" for the rest of his life, due to a damaged heart or injury to other organs.

My daughter refuses to even talk to me about vaccinating her child (age six) and it makes me very sad.

My point is, I have a personal interest in this topic, both as a grandparent, and as a historian.

Rose

My grandson just turned six months old, and was finally able to get his MMR shot last week Monday. It was scary taking him outside of the house because his parents couldn't be sure the people who stopped to check out the baby at the malls, etc., weren't sick with the measles (before the rash starts), and if he might get sick. Poor little guy is feeling miserable right now even though he doesn't have a fever, but it beats the alternative. A new case of measles was reported in Alberta this week. While I did have the measles as a child (and the mumps.....) and survived, there are people out there to whom these diseases can be lethal to, along with the unborn baby of a pregnant woman. People need to stop and realize it's not just about them. Other people are put at risk because they into the hype of a comedy celebrity who has no degree in disease and the "doctor" who fed her this information had is licence pulled!

As one who contracted a super-bug a year ago I am very interested in avoiding antibiotics. I got c-diff from taking Clindomyicin, routinely given after dental work. Didn't think twice about filling the prescription at the time. I am now cured, thank God, but the experience was eye opening as to the laxity with which these antibiotics are prescribed and the possible consequences. Although I am now completely well, no one knows whether I am now more prone to the disease recurring if more antibiotics are taken. Truly scarey stuff.

chi83, you wrote my thoughts exactly. Although I'm pro vaccine and vaccinated all my children, I also realize it would be false to insist that vaccines can never cause harm, as they clearly affect some children adversely. The parent of a child who has died or become disabled after receiving a vaccine is no less sad than one who has lost their child from the actual virus itself.