Always get a survey on anything but a recently platted subdivision. Even then it's a good idea. Boundary surveys aren't that expensive, and as you found out, they can potentially save you from making an expensive mistake.

You should check your local setback rules to find out if that driveway is nonconforming or not. In some areas, driveways are subject to setbacks, in others, they aren't.

I think the surveyed smaller lot size and the driveway issues warrant renegotiating the price.

And your Realtor needs an attitude adjustment.

The municipality in which I own(ed) some other properties require a survey in some circumstances and also require property descriptions need updating every some many years, if they are on old properties. For instance I have a deed with references to certain trees, old large rocks, etc. When I questioned a surveyor years ago about updating a survey on this property, he told me they'd have to start blocks away for a reference point and that most of the residents on that street would be in for a shock when/if all the lots were updated with surveys.

I am a believer in one. I had one done on a house I suspected didn't even sit on the land shown in the description. BTW, I was right and it got me out of the contract. Worth every penny of my personal expense. On city lots and suburban lots feuds are usually caused by boundary issues. Knowing your exact boudaries and easements is very important.

No, you are not out of line wanting one done. When you write up a purchase agreement, it's 'your call', your money, your protection. You can put into it anything you want to. You can even ask that the moon be in a certain phase when it was built as a condition. LOL. It's a moot point what is customary. Most sales advertising here lists acreage with a M/L on it as a disclaimer. Nobody would make much of an issue over five hundredths of an acre, unless it affects easements, previously built structures, drives or set-backs.

We've always have gotten surveys done when buying it saves on unexpected surprises and it lets your new neighbor know you know where your property lines are and can't be bulldozed by what they think they know!

The last property we bought the new neighbors had to move their above ground pool. We knew prior to closing the deal that the pool was on our property as soon as we had the purchase closed and survey in hand we asked for them to move it, which they did. 3/4 of it was on our property. First they claimed they didn't know it was over the line and then later said the PO had allowed them to use the property. In any case we asked nicely that they moved it. We didn't want the liability issue to deal with plus they were selling their property and it gave the false impression that their lot was much bigger than it was.

former surveyor here, so here is my 2 cents..whenever a survey is ordered,whether for title purposes,corners staked,etc a drawing is ALWAYS issued..The drawing will depict whatever the client paid for,for example just the property dimensions(metes and bounds) with corners delineated,or the home plotted on drawing with offsets to proeprty lines and ALL possible encroachments..

Discrepancies in lot size from other then official surveys is very common.From my experience ,75% of tax info of irregular shaped lots is incorrect..

Is the property a rectangle? Is there a curve along any of the lines, My guess the error in lot size is in the computation of metes and bounds..

Far as I know, by me a survey is required. we got one when we purchased 5 years ago, and we got one for when we're purchasing this week.

Staking isn't required where I am and seems to increase the cost 100%.

I think its important to know where the boundries are. the driveway being 1 foot on your property, I don't think is an issue. the .05 is your call, it also, really depends on whether the property is really any smaller than what you saw, or if its the number that is the issue.

for those who discount the .05 of an acre being hardly a thought, my house is currently on .11 so essentially double the margin of error here...

if the boundries didn't move, I wouldn't make an issue of it, but if 20 feet of your backyard within your fence is really the neigbors property, it might be worth asking for a discount.

Title surveys are a must in NJ, but not in many other places..I used to live in NJ, and each time we purchased a home it was required by bank..Moved to PA, and nobody cares..

The smaller sf is likely due to miscalculations of the property, and i doubt the actual boundaries have changed..
An easy way to determine this, is ask to see the actual subdivision plat when the parcels were cut-up from original..

Thanks for all of you for chiming in on this issue. I just wanted other potential home buyers to take heed and I'm sure after reading all the posts that, even if not required, they will get a survey done, no matter what anyone says!
As an update, my RE atty just told me there's a problem with the title. It seems that they were not allowed to split the lot without a HOA okaying it. I'm not sure how big of an issue this will be, the Covenants and Restrictions were written in 1958 and were set to expire in 1/1984, though every 10yrs it says it would automatically renew unless a covenant of owners agreed to change in all or in part. That I don't know if it was ever done or not. Now I wait and see.
The appraisal was suppose to be done today but was re-scheduled for tomorrow. I called and let them know about the difference in the lots size. Now, see what that comes in as and what the appraised value of the land is, then go from there with a decision of what to do and how to proceed.
GDDAWG, the lot is a very odd shape, below is what it looks like. The part that the house I'm trying to purchase is the lower right, sort of where it looks like the middle of an hourglass down. This is from the original sub. plat

Again, thanks for all the input, we'll be saving someone else from making a mistake!

"She said I am the only person who ordered a survey on their own without a bank/lender requesting one. She said banks don't require them anymore."

She's wrong.

Well, at least she'd be wrong *here*;
no lender would forward a dime without being sure their collateral was actually "there".

I've heard horror stories about cash buyers who refused to pay for a new survey, on property described by metes & bounds and on lot & block descriptions in modern subdivisions (builder built a really nice house...on someone else's lot).

What are metes and bounds?

Metes and bounds are the "legalese" describing the property..For example, from the plot plan above:

Beginning at a point at the southeast corner of Lot 43,said corner being 250 ft from the southwesterly line of AnY street,and proceeding
1)N 29 Degrees 02 minutes E, 33.70 ft
2)etc etc etc

This is a cash sale, my parents are giving me the mortgage. The current owners have a mortgage, or at least had one when they purchased the home. I would think the lender in knowing the lot was split, would have made them have a survey done, or at least made them provide a survey that was done when the lot was split. Something just doesn't seem right. How did the county know the property was split, wouldn't they require a copy of the plat showing the now two pieces of property??

So now I'm waiting for word about the appraisal, which was done today. From there I'll see which way to proceed.

Metes & bounds were the only ways of describing property lines before the advent of platted subdivisions.

In the old "original town" area of my small town, some of the lots extend to the center of the street;
the first people to build homes "in town" sort of made trails or tracks between their properties.
When the city got big enough to pave the streets, the owners gave them easements.

It's kind of neat when one of these houses changes hands;
there are survey flags along the back & sides, & then in the middle of the street there's a big safety-orange chalk "X".

Please, save yourself a lot of anxiety & perhaps a lot of trouble;
get a survey.

(we were posting at the same time.)

How did the county know the property was split, wouldn't they require a copy of the plat showing the now two pieces of property?

The county doesn't look at the plat. It uses the legal description in the deed. Without a deed or a court order, the property doesn't transfer. Surveys aren't always done, and when done, aren't always recorded. Locals rules may vary on this, of course.

Someone wrote a legal description of the property to be split off. If it wasn't taken from a survey, the description may be faulty. You can have a faulty legal description corrected, but it is an extra step, and someone may contest it.

BTW, if there is no current survey, the title insurance you receive will not cover boundary disputes.

Sylvia, survey was already done, not to worry. If you read from the beginning you'll get the whole picture.

Creekside, thanks, I'm going to look at the original plat and description and the deed I found on line and see if I can see if there's an faulty info.

It's for sure they sold .66 acre to someone, so just doing the math, only .77 acre would be left from the original 1.423 Though I'm not sure if there's is exactly .66 or less or mine is .77 or less since the .003 is not accounted for exactly.

Have the survey, title insurance is ordered and the underwriter is working on it.

Thanks!

In the old "original town" area of my small town, some of the lots extend to the center of the street;
the first people to build homes "in town" sort of made trails or tracks between their properties.
When the city got big enough to pave the streets, the owners gave them easements.

It's kind of neat when one of these houses changes hands;
there are survey flags along the back & sides, & then in the middle of the street there's a big safety-orange chalk "X".

Here's mine, and it's way out in the country. No X mark, but a disc and a bit of flagging driven into the blacktop.

Yes, I do get to pay property taxes on my portion of the county road.

Our deed (also in country) also specifies our land runs to the middle of the state route and yes, I also get to pay taxes on the part of my property they turned into road. That's why I get so *itchy when folks take to tacking up signs (both temporary and large permanent ones) into the utility easements without permission.......like it's community property.

Our property is also to the middle of the County Rd and and we're also lucky to get to pay property taxes on it.