Hi Oakrun,

Yes, it is a daunting process. In fairness to all the homeowners here, (and respect to the pro deck builders who give so much help), we homeowners have pretty much one shot at the deck. In other words, we are not builders, and we are not Martha Stewart types, so we have to live with our decisions, warts and all. But on the other hand, we can afford to take a chance on something new. It will not wreck our livelyhood.

I have nearly finished my 5/4" Ipe deck, 12' X 30'. After much thought, I went with the hidden fasteners - Tiger Claw TC-G

http://www.deckfastener.com/products_tcg.asp

They look great! Time will tell if they work.

One difference between these clips and many of the old ones is that these are solid stainless, not fiberglass. To get these fasteners to bend would take quite a bit of force. I put one in a bench vise and hit it with a hammer. It didn't bend.

One definite advantage of this system (assuming the boards don't lift) over face screwing, is the whole deck is "floating" on the pressure treated frame. The ipe boards are free to expand and contract slightly. In the long term, this may minimize end checking.

Also, your air circulation under the deck seems optimal. (I have the same situation). I suspect that many installs of hidden fasteners don't have good air circulation. That may contribute to failure.

Installation notes:

1) I used a biscuit joiner to slot the boards where the fasterers attach. It takes time, but I think it's a better job that having the boards slotted along the full length.

2) For butt joints, definitely ease the edges with an 1/8" radius. I think that's a John Hyatt trick. Looks great!!

3) I had to ease the backs of the ipe boards with a 1/4" radius router bit where the fastener attached. (the ipe comes with a 1/8" radius edge, not enough for correct installation)

4) most of the SS screws for this are # 8. If you are screwing into another hardwood (Ipe, Garapa, etc) I think the correct drill size is 9/64" . I broke a screw very early using the recommended 8/64"

Here is a pic of a few weeks ago (I am doing most of this myself):

{{!gwi}}

When I finally located the Tiger Claw hidden fasteners at my local building supply, they were packaged as an installation system for Procell Decking. The lumberyard people knew nothing about TigerClaw TC-G, but they knew Procell hidden fasteners.

BTW, around here Procell is THE premium engineered vinyl deck material.

WOW, Tom! Your deck (and view) are both gorgeous!

What made you decide to use that particular product? Because they were stainless?

Your description of what I am going through is so true.
I don't necessarily want to be a guinea pig for a new system, but I guess since Ipe is kind of a relatively new decking material, that type of thing may be unavoidable and a trade off at this stage in Ipe decking installation.
Supposedly, the installer said he is "going to be using a "new" type of clip that is better than the "old" ones." Yipes...

What concerns me a bit is that this deck builder bought acreage in the same area that we did, but is about nine months behind us on his own build. I am worried that my deck is an "experiment" for him. (He said he is going to use Ipe for his own deck too.)

When I read about Ipe cupping, it did seem in most cases to be decks that were laid over existing decks, or decks that were much closer to the ground than ours will be, and did not have adequate ventilation.

I am hoping that the height mine is will help with that, as you mentioned. Oh well, as you said, no matter what happens, it is not the end of the world... Thanks so much for the info., and good luck with your install. I am sure you will enjoy your deck AND that view!

mad, thank you for the info on Timbertech. I do have my heart set on wood though. :)

I am not a big fan of the clips just the fact they keep coming up with new/improved gives a person some idea how the old proformed. Using them is always a gamble The complaint ratio over here is way lopsided on the enraged side.

If your going to take that gamble anyway those new tigerclaw seem to be the best bet going and you done good with the plate jointer/router Tom it takes forever but thats a much better install than the pregroved for a lot of reasons. TigerClaw is also making a clip for the pregroved TimberTech earth wood 5/4 plank I havent tried it but some Contractors are raving about it. John

Hi Oakrun

I think all the fastener systems are stainless. I went with the TigerClaw because they are very stiff. It would be difficult for the ipe boards to pull them loose.

By the way, in the pic above you can see some ipe scraps (from EastTeak.com) laying around. Those scraps have been laying loose out there for 3 months already, no cupping is visible. I strongly suspect many unstable installations are due to ventilation issues.

As far as contractor experience, I don't think it is a big deal. If your guy is experienced with high grade materials, he'll know what to do. On the other hand, if the only tool that he has on his truck is a huge nail gun, get somebody else.

Also want to add that I had no trouble with the Ipe sawdust, but a big problem with the Garapa sawdust. Tell your contractor to use dust protection, or else, don't bring it up down the road.

John - thanks for the comments on slotting. My neighbor is a trim carpenter and saw the project. He also said the plate joiner is the way to go.

I am in the same school of thought as John (and many others). I am for the moment turned off by the clips, because of past experience. I have, however, been keeping my eye on the improved versions that are coming out now. They seem like they are really trying to address the past issues. But they are too new for me and there is too little testimony out there to be sure that they will work well. For the time being, in the interest of covering my own a$$, I will let other deck builders be the guinea pigs, and wait to see what the results are. For now, I'll stick to face screwing w/Headcotes.

Hello OakRun,
The Ipe Clip Extreme and Deckmaster's 'The Grabber' are the two best hidden fastener systems to use on Brazilian hardwood decking. Experienced installers will tell you that the others are too difficult to install. The plastic on plastic types SQUEAK when you walk on them. The other best selling clips are plastic. RealWood hardwood will outlast plastic. Do you want hidden fasteners enough to pay the up charge? If yes . . . there you go. I saw the finished artwork of one installer who eased the ends of boards butted together. This gave the deck the look of plank board flooring. It was fabulous, didn't add to the cost of the deck and it was easy to do. This also eliminated the need to make the butted ends meet up exactly AND still looked nice as the boards expanded and contracted with weather. Congrats to you for choosing the BEST DECKING IN THE WORLD. Go Natural!

Here is a link that might be useful: Brazilian Wood Depot

I feel your pain as I am in the process of having multiple decks built on my new house. A prior post of mine elicited multiple negative responses to use of clip systems and other research comes up with mixed reviews. So many variables can turn a good product concept into something that leaves you unhappy.
I can only speak from recent (a few days ago)personal experience with the IQ Fastentech system (guinea pig trial)on one small deck...It looks great but most boards squeak, although this seems to be diminishing over time and the board spacing of 3/16" seems pretty big compared to what others say they do.
I'd like to hear about your experience as I have a much larger eased edge deck remaining and I'm not sure what to do. I don't want screw heads or plugs if at all possible. My contractor wants to use the older bracket system (deckmaster?) which he says has worked OK in the past.