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kaismom_gw

My DH wants this house: someone talk sense into him!

kaismom
12 years ago

I see 2 to 3 years of our lives completely consumed by this project if he wants to take it on. This is in an area where a completely done house would sell for about 2 Mil. We looked at another new construction house a while back that sold for 1.8 Mil couple blocks away. There is another house ready for move in that is at 2.0 Mil and not moving because the access is quite poor.

I think this is a great project for someone younger and naive. We are too old for this!

I remembered another house in Montreal that someone posted a while back. I thought you guys would like to look at this project.

The woodwork uses old growth Pacific NW fir. They stained the wood in those days to make it look like mahogany. The woodwork is exquisite. The hallway in the bedroom floor is about 10ft wide, grand. Even the bedroom ceiling height looks to be 9 or 10ft. There is an attic that could be turned into a media/play room. The basement has no head room. I just see it as a storage and utility area.

Having said that, I have to assume that everything contains lead and asbestos.

I figured $750K to bring it back to what it could be.

Anyone with a deep pocket wanting a challenge?

Here is a link that might be useful: The Money Pit

Comments (62)

  • babushka_cat
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Could i marry your husband? Love the house, would love to take on such a project. Fully recognize it is a huge time and money sink, but boy is that a beauty!!!

  • farmgirlinky
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I would buy that house immediately, definitely can't help with this assignment of talking sense to your DH! It's such a worthy project.
    Lynn

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  • lalithar
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Kaismom,

    I will say that both of you should love it.. Do you like this house as much as your husband? Remodeling can be hard on relationships or this is a good time to check the level of commitment to the house. As much as the house is nice, I would say, don't do it if you are not fully on board.

  • polie
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    lalitha, I think your advice to Kaismom is spot on. Talk about the house some more, but after that if you both aren't enthusiastic about going for it, use your veto power. :-)

  • farmhousegirl
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I also think the house is fantastic. I say that if you can do this financially, it will be an amazing investment in that area.

  • rmtdoug
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Kiasmom, I agree that you should not paint the wood. That's what makes the house. Knowing these old houses, the trim was stained because it's mixed or unmatched grain, so you can't really do anything with it other than paint it. The house I grew up in north of Seattle was similar to this house. Kids love the darkness and creakiness but adults not so much. You could re-trim but that would be very pricey.

    Hopefully your husband will listen to your feelings about living in an old house with dark wood and consider that aspect of the cost.

  • hobokenkitchen
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    It sounds like you don't really like the house, so it's probably not a good idea.

    We've done houses with all new systems, additions, etc. Never spent close to $750,000 - but as you say you are not naive so I'm sure you know better and if you have reason to believe it needs a new foundation then that's something I certainly have no experience of!

    I love it and would buy it in a heartbeat if the area supports 2 million dollar houses. But if one of you doesn't like the house, then that's a deal breaker.

  • BalTra
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Kaismom, I'm with you on this one.
    Yes, stunning views. Great price in that neighborhood.
    Cool old house.
    But as has been said, there are many beautiful homes with equally stunning views in Seattle. I lived in queen Anne and enjoyed the daily subset from the top of the hill overlooking both the mountains and the city. Heaven.
    I don't know what the market is like, but I do agree that a major remodel has to have a good dose of labor of love in it in order to get through the craziness and the cost.
    Surely there are homes requiring less work that will leave you with more energy and money to enjoy the fantastic city you live in!!
    DH isn't crazy to love it . But you both should be head over heels if it will really require as much time and cash as you fear.
    I could (and have) sPend hours looking at Seattle real estate. So so fabulous!
    Good luck!

  • 1929Spanish
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Nice house! Don't you love how the realtor calls it a "builder's dream"? In California that means gut and make "modern".

    Keep us posted on the decision to buy or not!

  • jenny_from_the_block
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    My first impression - stunning house and the gardens (especially the shaped hedges and shrubs) are gorgeous....and the view! I agree that it does not look like it would require that much $$$ to update but of course a walkthrough would tell you more.

    As a parent of young children, I could not help but look up the school district it would be in. Not bad but not great either. Just average. Where are all the people with $1 to $2 M to spend on a house sending their kids to school?

  • kaismom
    Original Author
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    jenny
    Very few in this neighborhood sends the kids to public schools. My kids both go to private schools. This is the cost of living in a large city. Most people buy here knowing that they will send kids to private schools, or they buy in the suburbs if they want to send the kids to public schools. Even so, we have a lot kids coming from the local suburban areas in our private schools.

  • jenny_from_the_block
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I get that was probably the case. (I am familiar with those issues because my brother lives in Delaware, and has finally decided to move to an area where he can just buy a house and go to a nice public school, instead of having to pay for private school). I have always wanted to ask this so I hope no one takes offense, but how does this work out for kids in the neighborhood playing together? How many homes around this one fall into the same category? Is it just a tiny pocket? Ie...if the neighborhoods of expensive houses were widespread enough, all those kids would go to the same public school, the test scores and parent involvement would be such that most people would not feel the need to pay extra for private school. It is hard to tell from the pictures, but is this house in a tiny little pocket of homes near an urban area? Where there are not enough people to make a good public school? Btw I am not passing judgment, just curious how it works elsewhere in the states. We also bought a fixer-upper in a small city, so we could be close to work and good public schools. Sorry didn't mean to take this off topic....will close by saying that that property is unbelievably gorgeous!

  • lazy_gardens
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Divorce him ... I'll marry him and renovate.

    Lead is found in old paint ... the problem is when that paint is peeling and crumbling white paint, especially on woodwork and crumbling paster with multiple coats of old paint. You do not have to remove it, just make sure it's not falling into the soup at dinner. (I'm in an 1890s house with asbestos AND lead .. and nothing requires attention).

    I see nothing in it that says "money pit" ... the kitchen cabinets may nees updating, and the baths might be an issue later one, but that place looks move-in to me.

    The systems I would worry about immediately: the ROOF. Then the electric and plumbing updates to bring it up to modern specs. You can leave the old electric intact, and hook it into breakers in the new service box. Run all new circuits to the places that really need it, like the kitchen.

    The main problem with old houses is usually that they have been painted and modernized so much that's it's a major effort to get back to their roots. ere, you do not have that problem ... it's a VIRGIN!

  • eandhl
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Wow, what a beautiful house and view.

  • thepaintedlady_gw
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Story time!

    When I bought my 1893 home several contractors told me they wanted to rip out all my windows and put in new "energy efficient ones." I told them I wanted a pony and asked them if they saw a pony next door (they did not).

    This set the tone for a few of my contacts with contractors. Undeterred I did find two people who restore old windows, they cut out each window (in-some cases 48! over 1 mullion windows), stripped them, boiled the old hardware (which turned out to be copper) and put them back in (there are over 30 windows in my house, all with at least 20 little tiny windowpanes). Over the course of many months I did have a number of conversations about lead exposure. One of them admitted he worried about it so he got tested and found his lead exposure was no higher than the general population. This from a person who worked with lead paint day in and day out.

    I'm not saying you should let your kids gnaw on the window sills but I think this worry over lead paint exposure is entirely overblown. Granted I didn't live in the house while this was going on and I would hesitate to do so if I had small children (the rate of lead absorption for children v. adults is very different) but now that the work is done we're planing on raising kids in this house and we're not worried about it even a little bit.

    Looking at your house, I see more like 350k in work. And that's with replacing everything and restoring all the windows. Unlike me it doesn't look like you need to worry about laying new floors so that's 50k you don't have to worry about. Assuming 100k for a kitchen and 250k to spend on the rest of the house...if I had the money I'd do it. Based off my experience with my current (and first home) I would only ever buy gut jobs in the future (and I mean a home that hadn't ever had someone "improve it") most of my issues with this house is not the stuff that the builder did 115 years ago, it's the IKEA crap that got put in there over the past 15 years.

  • jgopp
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I love this house, huge potential for it to be a lovely home. I think it is a near steal at the price. I wouldn't expect it to last very long. Snap it up quick... I'm taking the husbands side on this one.

  • bmorepanic
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Your estimates could well be right.

    Living in the lead paint capital of the world, I'd plan on all of the walls could be painted with lead or only the kitchen/baths/utility spaces and of course, every bit of the exterior. It depends on if somebody liked wallpaper and I'd test some paint. Same thing for asbestos.

    We couldn't afford it, but I would buy it for the location.

    If your spouse wins, can I have the telephone from the upstairs hallway?

  • Circus Peanut
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    It took nowhere near that amount to restore our Craftsman bungalow of the same era, but to be fair it's smaller and perhaps prices are much less up here in the Northeast. Still, I cannot see more than 300,000, tops, in renovation necessities, and that includes new heat, plumbing electrical, roof and stripping all the fir of the dark stain in order to lighten it back to natural fir color. What you spend on a kitchen remodel of course depends on what you decide you need in a kitchen.

    On the other hand: you speak of it as though you are not a huge fan of old houses, and I'd say that rings a certain warning bell right there. If an older concrete basement that has no structural issues bothers you for its 'crumbliness,' this might not be the right aged house for you. If plaster walls bother you, it might not be right for you. If you worry about lead, an old house is not right for you. If you're depressed by darker older woodwork, this might not be the right house for you. If you don't want to invest in restoring the original wooden windows, this might not be the right house for you.

    All told, though, it's drop-dead gorgeous and the high ceilings are a real bonus for this style. Good luck deciding!

  • drbeanie2000
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Poor kaismom! I can understand why your husband wants it - it is beautiful. But if YOU don't want it, I would hope that is enough to talk some sense into him! Or at least to covet it but realize it is not the house for you as a couple.

  • kaismom
    Original Author
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    circuspeanut,
    How do you strip the dark stain from the woodwork?
    I thought that the stain often penetrates some depth beneath the surface and has to be be "sanded". Does chemical stripping work well enough? The woodwork is too intricate to 'sand' off the stain.

    We live in an earthquake territory. Old crumbly foundations would be a HUGE problem in a large earthquake. Granted that the house has survived a few earthquakes in the past 100 years, we could potentially lose the entire house in a big one... I suppose if the earthquake is big enough that this house is a total loss, the entire city would be a total loss, kind of like Japan's Tsunami.. We do carry earthquake insurances on our properties. There was a 4 story 100 year old brick building which was a 'totaled' after the last earthquake about a mile from our house. They have demolished that building since. I have no idea what the "loss" was for the owners.

    There is probably not much lead on the inside given that the woodwork is not painted. However, the entire porch maybe a huge lead issue. The woodwork on the porch is absolutely stunning. If it is covered in old lead paint, the condition of the paint is such that the new paint would not adhere without significant amount of sanding. Sanding lead paint per EPA regulation would be very very expensive. I am not sure if I or my DH would take that project on. I definitely would not. So we would be "paying" someone, hence the cost.

    To demolish the old porch and rebuild in to the same spec would also be very expensive given the detail of the woodwork.

    Yes, the house is grand and beautiful. I am not sure if we are the people that will restore it. Will keep you updated.

  • dianalo
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I would not begin to discuss it for real until you have an estimate and/or engineer's report on it. For that kind of price, the cost to have it thoroughly diagnosed is worth every penny.
    I am with the crowd that does not see it needing half of the $750k mentioned. I may be naive, but to me, it mostly needs the systems to work efficiently and up to code and a new kitchen and baths. The floors look easy to have refinished. The walls can be smoothed out or otherwise handled.
    While dark trim may not be your ideal, I am sure you can work around it. It really adds an elegance to this house that I don't think would be there if you painted it. It is also much easier to keep up over time.
    I think you owe it to your husband to decide after having more information. If you still don't love it, then you can say no with no regrets. He will have seen you make the effort and not forever resent your not giving it a chance.

    I think it is a gorgeous house even as it is. Aesthetically, I'd be happy to clean up the floors and walls and get to the kitchen and baths when we can. The kitchen is not very pretty or wonderful yet, but it is a decent size and can get you through until you get the one you want. It is a lot easier to make a big home pretty than to make a small one big. The location seems lovely and you say that others in the area are in this finished price range. You could always make a lower offer if you are worried about repairs, but I'd want to know facts before deciding that.

  • mamadadapaige
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Absolutely stunning views and AMAZING house - go for it! Life's an adventure. Jump on board and enjoy the ride.

    We had to replace all the plumbing and electrical in our last house. It wasn't that expensive. The bones of the house are wonderful! The biggest project appears to be the kitchen. I say go for it.

  • rbpdx
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Here is a note from an agent who visit the house:
    "Grand entryway, wraparound porch, generously sized rooms. However, plaster is cracking off the lath in almost every room of the house. Kitchen is dated. Wiring is 2 prong, knob & tube, windows are original, with storm covers. Basement has oil burning octopus furnace, decent ceiling height. Upstairs has 4 generously sized bedrooms and one large vintage bath to share."

    I see tons of work ahead. Beautiful house though...

  • marcolo
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I am unable to see anything wrong with the woodwork at all. It is probably coated in shellac, which is removed with alcohol. Shellac also binds to itself so it can easily be cleaned and refreshed. A light stain on that woodwork would be grotesquely inappropriate.

    I sincerely doubt many people are lifting these old houses off their foundations and repouring on a regular basis. You live in an earthquake zone, It is what it is. More minor "shoring up," such as tying in the sill better or whatnot, may be adequate.

  • melissastar
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Do you know if the woodwork is actually "stained" dark or if it has a shellac finish on it that has darkened with age? When I purchased my house of a similar vintage (1907), it had a real patchwork of woodwork colors. some door frames and even some spindles on the staircase were nearly black. Honestly, I feared that they had been painted by some miscreant previous owner.

    Other parts that seemed to have been restored were a mid-range brown. Still others were about as dark as the stain in this house appears to be. Some door frames and doors were alligatored, some not. I was steered by some good folks on the woodworking forum toward wiping/rubbing the woodwork with denatured alcohol to soften, blend and remove some of the shellac finish and it worked. Much of the very dark stained is now a pleasant middle golden brown. Some portions that were flat black required a rougher scrubbing with fine steel wool, but even it came off.

    It wouldn't be at all surprising if it was a similar shellac finish on the woodwork at this house. And you might be surprised at how easily it can be lightened with what is in effect, a thorough cleaning with alcohol.

    That being said, I was thinking about you and this house the other evening. My instinct was to tell you, as others have to jump at it. As an old-house kinda-gal I sure would...warts and work be damned.

    But the more I cogitated, the more I realized...not everyone is made happy by old homes. So many on this forum are, but it is OK to not want to deal with it, to want to pend one's time and money on other priorities.

    If you don't really love it, you probably will resent the time, work and $$ you'll need to put into it. The odds are it won't be torn down and lost forever. Someone will love it, buy it and restore it. It doesn't need to be you.

    Of course, if DH would never forgive you for making HIM give it up, you'll have to weigh that risk!

  • joslin99
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Here in Boston every single house needs new electrical, new windows, and lead/asbestos abatement. Many people take walls down to the studs but plaster can also be repaired. Old windows can also be refurbished rather than replaced which may be more appealing in a climate less harsh than mine.

    I too am getting the vibe that this is not something you want to take on, so I would pay attention to that gut feeling.

  • lafacia
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Sorry to be of no help at all. Tell DH I'm in!!

  • bmorepanic
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    A ton of older, natural woodwork is covered with shellac. Shellac actual comes in colors. It was sometimes enhanced with dyes. It rests on top of the woodwork and doesn't penetrate the grain at all.

    Even hundred year old shellac removes fairly easily with alcohol or other chemical strippers. The bonus is the color comes right off too.

  • melissastar
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I was interrupted mid post and by the time I got back to actually finish and post mine, Marcolo had made the same suggestion.

  • igloochic
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    So let me say.....I love that you use the right words when discussing the house. Restore verses renovate, etc. I am an old house snob and this house is worth being snobby over.

    I'm in year two on our 1890s house. It it much larger, and yet if I apply an economy of scale to your place I can say that you are likely quite fair to throw out the 750 number.

    So, does that matter? Yes if equity is all you have for your future, but maybe it's not? Can you afford to toss half a mill at the place that you will lose? Will that loss matter or is living in the done house enough and you can walk away from that comfortably? Are YOU wanting to go through this process? And done right I'm thinking that much like mine it's more like a five year project because many projects can't overlap.

    Dh and I were both fully invested in our project before it began and even if you aren't doing any of the work you still need to personally by into the issue of restoring a house like this. On our house we will likely double the purchase price to restore it over about six years and at the end we will likely eat a mill unless we are lucky. That's the difference between restore and remodel. Redoing major systems is messy....but well worth it. But again...are you "in"? It sounds like maybe so don't move forward until you are sure.

    This house needs someone who loves it and will do right by it. I'd love to hear you were those people but it can't just be dh....walk away if that's the case...if not, I can't wait to watch the changes :).

  • Mizinformation
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I would suggest not buying the house, but not because of the work or cost, but because you don't like it. It's an absolute stunner, but if your taste is not for dark wood, it's not the house for you. Someone else will adore it. We bought our old Craftsman fixer (north of you) specifically BECAUSE of the dark wood and in spite of everything else. The previous owners did some crazy things (dropped ceilings in some rooms, sprayed-on-popcorn texture on other ceilings AND down the walls to the picture rails, then added a camo paint job on top of the popcorn, etc.), but thank Thor they didn't paint, stain or lighten the woodwork. Yes, the reno has been a pain, but we are in absolute crazy love with the house. You have to love how the strong, dark, straight lines of the columns and windows frame the views of the PNW sky, the trees, the neighborhood. A Craftsman house really is an aesthetic, an architectural expression of a world view, an appreciation for a certain way of seeing the world and moving in it. If it's not your way, that's not a problem: there are lots of other great world views. Fussy Vicotrian, sleek modernist, ramblers, brownstones, even "snout houses" (suburban houses that are all garage in the front) -- they all are expressions of a world view, and you deserve to live in a house that reflects yours and makes you happy as soon as you see it.

  • Susied3
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I echo what a lot of others are saying, but IMO, I think these old homes have to "speak to you". If you toured it, left it, and it hasn't kept calling you home, then it probably isn't home for you. But, that's just my feeling from my own experience.

    And, don't know if you have small children, but remember, they are part of the investment as well. If you LOVE restoring, your kids will most likely love it as well, and what a joyful, and sometimes heartbreaking journey it is for the entire family.

    I LOVED our old 120year rambling farmhouse that sit on top of the hill, and after 12 years when we were forced to leave because of a "never to happen" DH job transfer, it broke our family's heart. I have an oil painting of that home which was done for us after we moved, and it hangs above our fireplace, and even after 15 years, I get a knot in the stomach if I look at it for a few seconds.

    I even have it in my mind to buy it back when DH retires, we are going to give the current owner an offer he won't refuse.

    Maybe I just have an odd way of seeing those old houses.

  • wolfgang80
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I love the house. Does it get any afternoon light? That would be my only concern with making it my forever house.

  • lavender_lass
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Lovely house...but if I wanted to have a water view in Seattle...I'd look for a 'fixer upper' by Ballard, with a view across Puget Sound to the Olympic Mountains! :)

  • sixtyohno
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Several times I've given in to my DH when he loves something. I've overcome my own reluctance to please him and then truly regretted it and always felt some anger when thinking about it even years later. This is especially true for out first house which he loved and I didn't and we bought and I lived in it for 22 years. Eventually, after much fixing, it became part of me, kind of, but I am so much happier in my current house, which we both really love.

  • marcydc
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I am in a 1916 house that looks quite similar. If it is shellac (test with rubbing alcohol) . I've been working on mine when I find an hour or too. It's not hard work. And certainly not expensive, just labor. I'm thinking I might get some paint store day labor guys over and just finish it all off.

    My staircase, on the other hand, has been varnished or something that seems indestructible. I'm still debating how much work to put into that. Luckily not the railings though, just the steps themselves.

    I have a 1935 gas furnace. I even have its original birth certificate from the place that built it. It is surrounded by asbestos covered pipes covered in something that looks like aluminum foil.

    I had an abatement company check it right after we bought. They said it was not at all dangerous. Removing it would be and it would be about $1100 to do that. It would require air testing afterward and 3 days of vacating the premises.

    I'd ask a contractor, but I don't think it is anywhere near that much to fix up. It looks like the bones are good. I assume you need new bathrooms/plumbing too? Ours weren't in great shape (corrosion, low water pressure) and so we replaced nearly all the pipe with copper.

    Good luck with whatever you decide!

  • igloochic
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Misinformation...I get that you love your house style, but is it perhaps possible to share that love without degrading other styles? I for one enjoy both my snout house (thank you for that beyond rude term for my townhouse) and my victorian...which is anything BUT fussy.

  • kaismom
    Original Author
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Thanks all for your wonderful comments. There are a lot of lovers of old houses on this forum.

    My DH and I are always looking at houses. My kids think its our hobby. Anyrate, we have always said that we will move when the house is better and the view is better than what we already have.

    I don't love one type of architecture. I love STUNNING examples of any architectural genre. If someone has a great looking Eichler, Neutra, Corbusier, Greene and Greene, FLWright, SW Adobe, American Colonial, French Chateaus. etc etc if it is done right and if it is in the right place. I will consider them all! I do know that this is a stunning example of American Four Square with a large wrap around porch!

    Regarding the large porch, although this porch is gorgeous, I don't think it is an American vernacular that works well for the Pacific NW. Our days are too grey and dark. The porches shield too much of natural light from entering the house. (Scandinavian houses do not have large porches...) The porch evokes a certain feeling in America but is not really an architectural expression that works in this region! Yes, the porch is beautiful but it shields natural light from the windows. In seattle, WA, if we have 1 week of above 80 degree summer, we are excited for our summer! Our evening summer temperatures are often in the 50s. We never leave the house without a sweater even in August. If we are out on the porch on a summer evening, we will be wrapped in a blanket.

    The porches are a throw back to the America of hot and humid summers without air-conditioning, ie all of the East Coast and the Midwest. My husband who is from MD, the porch evokes his childhood.

    Regarding this old-house-find, the house is (or will be) better than what we have now, but the view is not necessarily better, IMHO. The lake is closer and more open but... In our current house, we have 20 ft of windows with views of Mr Rainier and the Cascades from all of our common rooms. We have some Lake Washington view. We have the view from the kitchen, DR, and LR which is an open view without looking over the other rooms.

    We recently decided not to buy a house with really stunning view of Mt Rainier and the Lake, a few blocks from this old house. That house was kind of UGLY!

    We have turned down many houses where the view was from the bedrooms which we do not consider to have a value to us. We want the view from the living spaces.

    We live in a pretty nice house already. If I did not have a nice house with a view, I would probably jump at this house very quickly.

    The biggest problem for me regarding this house is that the kitchen is in the back, and there is not an easy way to give the kitchen a view of the lake and the mountains while keeping the character of the house. This house also does not have a Mt Rainier view, which is probably the most spectacular view in the city next to the Puget Sound view.

    Right now, we eat every breakfast and dinner looking at Mt Rainier and the Cascades and gorgeous sunrinse when the sky is clear enough. We would lose that completely in this old house that we are considering.... That would be a big loss to our family. Therefore, we would lose the amount of natural light and the Mr Rainier view to have a 'better' house. I don't know if the trade off is worth it to me...

    I am letting my DH go on with the leg work needed to do what he needs to do. When we have all the necessary stuff, we will consider seriously. The issue of a kitchen without a view is a significant one to me.

    My crazy DH wants to jack up the house and turn it around 180 degrees so that the kitchen and DR could have the best view. I think I married a dreamer of nth order.

    I know that I am lucky to have these options. Ta ta for now. I will keep you all posted if there is any progress....

  • kateskouros
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    i'm with your husband. that house has GREAT bones. i can't tell from the pics, but everything seems to be in good shape -plaster, floors, windows, etc... so i'd jump on that. i don't know how old you are, but i'm about to turn 49 and it's taken over 3 years for our new build. i would NEVER do this again. the truth is, i would have preferred another reno (we reno'd our first home) but none that i found worked for our family.

    the only one we found (that my dh really wanted) was 7200 sq ft on six acres and had two streams in the rear. it was white brick (strike one), garage entry at basement level (strike two), had oak flooring (strike three) and was seriously ugly. oh, it didn't have gas either. he said if we bought it i could do whatever i wanted to it. ha! i would have torn it down!

  • Susied3
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Kaismom, well, you know what they say, LOCATION, location, location!

    Let me just state from experience, our old farmhouse was right smack dab in between Oklahoma City and Norman. We could see downtown OKC, and all of Norman. You saw westward as far as the eye could see, and the same to the east.
    I was sitting at my breakfast table on May 19,1995 and heard a loud boom, windows shook, and looked up to see the plume of smoke from the Federal building bombing.
    Where we live now, no view. Just woods. Which is fine, if that is what you like. And, I do, to a certain extent, but would take a lesser house with a better view than a nicer one without.
    Sounds like the house you are contemplating has wonderful views,maybe you should go sit there at different times of day and see if it is worth the compromise?
    Had I been able to get over the shock of having to move and thoght about it, that's what we would have done, and we wouldn't have bought this place.
    Hey, I think I'm talking myself into moving!
    Good luck in making that big decision! Can't wait to hear.

  • aliris19
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Well wow, Kaismom - you do have well-reasoned explanations as to why jumping ship isn't sensible. One question might be: who spends the most time inside the house? Is dh doing the work then? That would count as time inside the house, I think. If not, then your pining for the mountain-view in the kitchen would seem to matter most perhaps.

    Someone's going to love this house even if it's not you. I can understand why you'd want to hold out. That said, I don't want to forget to note that I think the house looks fantastic! To be better than that, I bet your current house is amazing ... maybe you should post pictures of that?!

  • repac
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    The house is absolutely gorgeous. I love the character and beauty of old houses, often a feeling you just can't get in newer homes. That being said, the house has to have enough of what you want to make it worthwhile, and you have brought up many well-reasoned concerns. Other issues for me: with only one full bath on the bedroom level, can you easily get another full bath in there (I assume you will not want everyone to share)? What will the wood look like once it's restored (much of the beauty of the house to me)?

    We bought an old house years ago that we knew needed just about everything re-done. But the house had great bones: structurally solid, woodwork was original, never painted, and in excellent condition, home had 2 full baths upstairs. Basically every system and every room in the house had to be redone, and all windows replaced. Then we put on an addition, made to match the original home inside and out (no one has ever been able to tell where the addition is). Even with all the $$ we have put into it, the home in a good neighborhood has increased much more in value, so we still have a lot of equity in the house. We had looked at another old home, gracious and beautiful requiring everything to be redone, but it didn't have the basic layout that we wanted so we passed on that one. For us, we made the right choice as I never want to leave my home.

    So, if the house once redone matches your dream, then get it; home has been on the market for a while so you may be able to get a better price and use that towards renovations. But if it's not the one (Mt. Rainier would be a lot to give up! as well as sunshine), be patient, enjoy your current beautiful home, and wait for THE ONE.

  • igloochic
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I was thinking of this lovely house and sent it to dh via email. He loved it as well lol. Maybe they can work out a deal and we will share a vacation home :p. sure it's too close for both of us but fixing it would be so much fun!

    One thing about that style of house that I like, and you hate, is the cozy darkness. Those homes are great for a person like me who likes to feel she's safe in her next. I don't mind bringing artificial light to enjoy it and I would live on that wrap around porch because unlike mine, it offers privacy. Mine is full on right in front and sitting there just inspires the tourists to chat lol.

    Hey wait....want my house? Lol. Very light with sea views from every room...including the kitchen! I've been dying over the freezes in Bradbury Bradbury that belong in this house and can't get them because they don't fit here lol.

  • jakkom
    11 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I love the house, but I totally get your reservations about it, kaismom. And foundation work, at least on similar homes in the SF Bay Area, is REALLY expensive. The local developers used to throw in beach sand and/or local dirt/rocks into the concrete mix for foundations, so the concrete from the 1900's to around 1950's is crap stuff, what's called "soft concrete" around here.

    You can stab through it with an ice pick. Major earthquake costs to replace it, plus here in CA we have to do plywood sheathing now for additional bracing. Don't know what the codes are up in Seattle, but you guys are even more overdue for a major shaker than we are with the Hayward and San Andreas faults.

    I love Seattle and have visited some 12 times in the last 30 years, but really, it sounds like the new house isn't any improvement for you over what you've got now.

    I have to side with you on this one. Major money pit, not worth investing your time and $$$ in it. Let someone younger without kids, preferably a two-income couple with lots of energy to give up all their spare time, weekends, and vacations bringing this beauty back to life.

    Sometimes, you just have to be practical. It's lovely and romantic, but it'll crush your pocketbook, and these days, that's too high a risk to take in your situation.

  • baligirl
    11 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I can't imagine spending a million dollars on something I didn't love.

  • babushka_cat
    11 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    kaisamom,

    i lived with a dreamer type too for a while. we took the roof off in OCTOBER to raise it up a bit. (italy country house) . what were we thinking??? i was young, sounded feasible at the time.

    have fun exploring more houses!

  • mtnrdredux_gw
    11 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Well, it has to be a labor of love. Passion even. Because if you do it, and do it they way you want it, i think it will cost far more than it will be "worth". I think that is almost alway true of high end renos. Nice finishes are wildly expensive, at least on the coasts. I think you can easily hit 750. Might be a different story in the midwest, but in areas with high labor costs these projects are budget killers.

    It doesn't sound like you love it, and I am not sure what it gives you that you don't have (maybe I missed that part).

    I can't look at houses. I've never looked at one of those listing mags without seeing something I loved. Whereever whenever. We are finally down to 2 houses from 3 and, though I have been thinking about beachfront somewhere, I know not to look. I know few people who can "just look". Too dangerous ... the heart wants what the heart wants.

  • kaismom
    Original Author
    11 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    jkom,
    You seem the to be the only one with an understanding of the structural bracing necessary in an earthquake territory. The earthquake issue poses very real and expensive challenges in updating old houses.

    Do folks in other parts of the country not worry about crumbly concrete? I have only lived in the Pacific NW. It is actually quite common to see old houses lifted up on jacks and have the foundation re-poured and the house set on a new foundation. Our GC told us that it costs 50K-100K to do that. Since that is quite commonly done, my DH's proposal is to rotate the house at the same time if physically possible! In a $1mil house, it is a doable proposition.

    We live in a remodeled 1950s house right now. We took off all old lap-sheathing under the old siding, placed structural plywood sheathing with bracing everywhere. We had to get engineer's sign off prior to starting the project... We bolted framing to the foundation in the basement before finishing the basement. Our current house has been 'earthquake retrofitted'. It cost A LOT of money without really increasing the value of the house. When you go to sell the house, most people (young buyers or people from elsewhere in the country) don't realize what it takes to do that.

    We have friends in the SF bay area, CA that bought a house with the idea of total remodel. When they started to rip out things, they discovered that the foundation was damaged beyond repair and the previous owners covered it up to sell it. They actually demolished the house, then rebuilt on the lot. They sued the original owners... Our friends ultimately won the case. I think our friends with really deep pockets may have ended up paying more money in legal fees than what they got out of the settlement because they were MAD about the fraud.

    These things happen, buying things that are beyond what one had anticipated. I am putting a big padding number to not be surprised, hence my $500K to $750K number to update structurally to not have a total loss....

    Anyhow, old houses with structural issues in an earthquake territory is a sad thing. There was an amazing old house on a steep hill in my neighborhood with really a stunning view. WAY WAY better than the one we are considering. The house was used as the Italian Consulate in its heyday. It even had a ballroom. Due to structural issues, the person who bought the house ended up donating the property to the city and the house was demolished, and the lot subsequently became a park. I think the tax break they got from the donation was easier to swallow than what it could have cost to restore.

    One of the due diligence we need to do is to see if we can get a reasonable earthquake insurance on this property. Many old houses in Seattle cannot get ANY earthquake insurance unless you do the extensive earthquake retrofit. For those folks not familiar with earthquake premiums, you buy separate earthquake policies in addition to the regular home owners insurance. The premium is usually equal to the regular home owners insurance. The deductible is generally 20K or more on an earthquake insurance.

    We have multiple rentals and we carry earthquake insurance on all of them. It costs several thousand $s every year for that!

    After what happened in Japan and Katrina, we are unsure if the earthquake insurance will actually be helpful if the city was a TOTAL disaster to the point where bridges fell down, tall buildings tumbled. But alas, we play by the rule and hope that the insurance companies also play by the rule.

  • formerlyflorantha
    11 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Be sure to budget for a few experts to help you, including architectural person and/or design person, kitchen person, energy person, and landscaper.

    This house also needs good furnishings. Not expensive, necessarily, but of appropriate design for the house's muse--the current owner is a mismatch with the spirit of the house. Lucky for you, this style of house is in vogue and today's furniture companies have lots of things that are suitable without needing to seek out antiques. Same with drapery hardware and fabrics and rugs. Perhaps the original lighting fixtures for some of the rooms are still in a shed?

    Paint, soap water, shine, and tasteful furnishings would allow you to limp along, perhaps for quite a while. The kitchen image? images? are almost useless so you will need to think hard about that--how functional is the room and how long can you put up with it? If it's tolerable despite its aesthetics, you need to think about whether to attack right away or let it ride, with some cosmetic changes.

    Look into steel roofing. There are a number of styles that will work on this kind of house and they are impervious to wet weather. You see them more and more on high-end houses.

  • cindaintx
    11 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    "I love the house. Does it get any afternoon light? That would be my only concern with making it my forever house."

    I don't live there any more so I can't be sure, but I think it would have afternoon sun light until about 2PM in December. Dark by 4:30.