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no_green_thumb

It only looks like a war zone - actually it is my back yard

no_green_thumb
15 years ago

Spring definitely has not "sprung", but at least the snow is gone, for now. For a long time, I have been trying to figure out what to do with my back yard. This is the year to re-landscape, but I don't know where to begin ---- hence the name, no-green-thumb.

Some of my thoughts:

I will take out the whiskey barrel as it is rotting, take out the bird bath and I am thinking about replacing the two pieces of purple fencing with white. In that area, I have a lot of fern and hosta growing.

I would like to take out the pine trees along the fence. They are nasty.

I would like to take out the concrete slab. It was a basketball court for the kids and we have removed the hoop. I need to get someone to take out the concrete.

Directly in back of the house, I need to do something with the patio. I HATE it and have since we had it put in. It was not done correctly, the stones are uneven, it is a mess.

I would like to take out the tree in the middle of the patio, but my husband nixed that idea. I'm still working on him.

I only need a small patio, but also have three doors that lead to it. The door on the far right is from the laundry room, so it doesn't need to open onto the patio, but at least a walkway to it. I am thinking of stamped concrete.

I just don't know what to do to create a nice, tranquil backyard area. And I would like to find a better place for the grill than sitting in the middle of the patio.

Thanks for any ideas you are willing to give.

A picture of the back of the sunroom taken last year --so grass does grow and plants bloom!!

Comments (26)

  • Carol_from_ny
    15 years ago

    If it were me I'd keep the extra concrete pad and use it to make another sitting area OR move the grill and a table with chairs out there. Of course I'd dress it up with potted plants. I'd use some wrought iron hooks to hang some pots to get the height. You could even buy one of those gazbo type frames with a canvas top to really dress it up.
    Having alot of hostas and ferns says to me you have a great deal of shade so you will be limited some in what you can plant.
    You could connect the two areas with more stone like you have on the patio or just large rectangles of stone, edge it with more hostas and ferns.

  • pbrisjar
    15 years ago

    I wouldn't remove the tree, either. What I'd do is make it into a feature - with either planting boxes or a seat/bench around it.

    You've got some beautiful scenery there and it's very natural-looking (versus overly-manicured). I'd keep with that feeling and strive to not have anything too structured / hard.

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  • no_green_thumb
    Original Author
    15 years ago

    Thanks for the ideas. I guess I am most stuck on what to do with the patio right outside the house. It was never put down right and is uneven. I do want something more natural looking, but don't know what.
    I had not thought about benches around the tree. That may be an idea.
    Yes, there is a lot of shade. I grow mostly ferns and hostas - at least the ones the deer don't eat.

  • pbrisjar
    15 years ago

    I'd go for a wood or wood-like deck. Either that or flagstones done right. Have you seen the newish wood-look decking materials that are made out of plastic. etc? Some of them look really nice.

  • johnatemp
    15 years ago

    I think you have a lovely back yard!!

    Tree - keep. Add a deck over the exsisting flagstones and leave a cut-out for the tree. Like the previous idea about a bench around it. Deck would also cover the wires on the lower portion.

    Then that concrete pad - Build a gorgeous cedar pergola over it. Maybe even add outdoor drapes and make an outside dining room or sitting room - what ever. If you wanted to you could even build an outside kitchen!! Add an outdoor fireplace....
    {{!gwi}}

    I think by having the wood deck and pergola it would tie the two areas together.

    Smiles:)

  • mclarke
    15 years ago

    Hi Nogreenthumb... I'm still getting estimates for my patio, so I sympathize.

    Can I ask ... what kind of budget are you working with?

    How far does your backyard extend? Into the woods?

  • gk5040
    15 years ago

    Good thing you posted the last picture, I wasnt sure there was hope for the lawn. This might cost some $$$$ but what I would do is hire a company to install a cement paver patio. The pavers would go right over the patio that is there...the pavers are set over a layer of sand. You need new stairs, which could be made out of the pavers. They use cinderblocks and then cover them with the matching pavers. I think you need to add evergreen shrubs to your mix of hosta and ferns. I love hostas but there is nothing to look at when they disappear for the winter months. I am not sure where you live and what plants are a good choice for your area. Maybe some hollys, yews, rhododendrons or azeleas.

    What use to be on the concrete pad? I like what johnatemp suggested but I would probably just extend a paver patio and do away with the concrete pad. What kind of tree is that near the patio....is it something worth saving? I know your husband nixed the idea, keep working on him:)

    Do you have patio furniture?

  • hoosiergirl
    15 years ago

    I think your yard has a LOT of potential! I love your patio, especially what I can see of it in the last picture. I think just softening it up with nice outdoor furniture and some potted plants (and adding a pergola if budget allows) would make it a very welcoming space!

    I think the concrete area looks forlorn out there by itself, but it could be connected by a stone path leading from the right side of the sunroom to the side of the concrete area. That could then be your grilling area (and I'd add a small table and a couple chairs. You could also soften the edges of that space with plantings around the perimeter.

    If it were me, I'd remove all the purple fence (and go without), and leave the pines and the other tree (but I would put a more defined border around it, or as pbrisjar suggested, a semi-circular bench would be nice).

    It would help in winter to have some evergreens in your plant bed as well.

    Do you have any other photos of the patio area during summer?

  • no_green_thumb
    Original Author
    15 years ago

    I am just checking in - have to leave for an unexpected business appointment - dumb customer!
    Anyway, Mclarke, I really haven't established a budget as I don't know what I even want to do.
    I do know I want to keep it simple.
    Yes, I do have patio furniture, a green wrought iron table and chairs, two green metal chairs - the old fashioned kind that kind of bounce.
    I am in northern Ohio - and am hoping the grass comes back. It took one heck of a beating this last fall with no rain and during this ugly winter.
    The concrete pad was a basketball court. We took down the hoop as it was all rusted, now left with the pad.
    I appreciate all of the ideas to use it, but I think I really want it out.
    GK - what do you mean by concrete pavers?? -- like the Unilock bricks?? I am unsure of what you mean - and they can be installed over the existing flagstone?
    I have all of those rocks around the tree and the flower beds and they are getting to be a pain in the butt. I am constantly out there putting them back after the lawn mower hits them.
    Oh, the tree. It is a flowering crab. I despise that tree. It also has some kind of disease and half of the leaves fall off every summer, but my husband hangs his bird feeders out there during the winter.
    Did you notice the pots on top of the roof? That is the roof-top garden. Between the deer and lack of sun, there is no garden space - so DH gardens out on the roof. He climbs out the window. I do think he is certified nuts, but he seems to get a kick out of it. He has all kinds of plants started under grow lights in his office.
    I'll check back in later.
    Thanks, ladies, for all of your ideas.

  • no_green_thumb
    Original Author
    15 years ago

    oh, and we go half way into the woods. I think you can see the telephone wires which run at the property line.

  • jejvtr
    15 years ago

    no green -
    Nice home - Your yard has many nice appointments - i agree w/you - they just need to be brought out -

    Patio -
    I agree it was done totally wrong - does not look as though it has a proper base - some thoughts
    1. Proper steps into the used back door - they should be the width of both doors -either nice wooden w/some - stained treads painted banister & ballister w/top rail stained OR you could do stone steps - same stone you are using for patio - Either way that would greatly improve that area - & the steps will dictate where the patio starts
    2. Consider losing the garden to left of patio to let the patio continue to the HVAC unit - that will provide excellent use of that space & allow the grill to be on the patio but at an end/out of the way (after all we do grill/eat on the patio right?)Looks as though you need more space to have a table & patio plants
    a. Have proper patio stone people give you the estimates for the patio in whatever stone you chose - the need to dig up existing- - establish patio perimeters (usually w/string and or spray paint) - dig up the earth below existing pation - making sure it is slightly pitched AWAY from the house - tamper earth down, lay fabric, pebbles - etc.. (differs depending on application) - may do stone dust base, then lay the stone in that - trick is it MUST be level -

    3. Some plantings in front of the HVAC

    4. BEFORE doing any tree demolition - I would have an arborist (not just tree svc) come out to examine your property trees & consider triming the canopies to allow more natural light but not loose precious trees - even the awful evergreen may just need some proper triming & training - I would venture that would make a tremendouse difference

    5. Concrete slab - as others have pointed out - perhaps it just needs a rehab - sitting area, fire pit -putting in a mosiac tile prject - play w/that one

    6. It looks as though its difficult to keep lawn back there - I'm on this in my own backyard - likely culprit is the large ?oak tree the lawn is competing with - You could send a soil sample to your local cooperative ext site & they can help w/what to plant there - certain grass seed, different shade plants etc...

    good luck !

  • gk5040
    15 years ago

    I went on unilock.com just to make sure they are the pavers I was thinking of and yes, there are so many names given to them....cobblestone pavers, (in florida, they are referred to as cement pavers), etc. There are many varieties and styles...even brick make a pretty patio. In Florida they go right over the existing pool decks with a 1/4 inch of sand. My SIL had something similar installed in PA, it was a new construction home and it came out beautiful. Without an existing pad they have to add layers of gravel and then sand. I would get a professional to give you a price, you might find having the patio saves prepping the foundation and they can go over it, maybe saving you $$, but I am not 100% sure....freezing grounds in Ohio might require something different, its worth finding out.

    Maybe you need to help kill the tree to win this battle with DH.... feed it a gallon of bleach every week, super concentrate poison ivy killer, stump remover....something so it doesnt survive the spring:)

    I would get a few cans of Rust-o-leum satin black spray paint and freshen up the old green patio furniture. Get some new cushions at Target or HD. That might give the older set some new life.

  • no_green_thumb
    Original Author
    15 years ago

    Thanks again --- I have a lot to think about. I want to call people to come in an give estimates, but would like to at least have a few ideas when they do come.

  • kim2007
    15 years ago

    I was thinking as I looked at your pics: "This looks just like Ohio!" We lived in the Kent/Stow area for 2 and 1/2 years before we moved where we are now. The good news is that I recall you have lots of great greenhouses and nurseries in your area where you can get advice and find lots of choices. I agree with you that keeping it relatively simple is the best treatment for your setting--that grove of trees is very nice. One of the things I miss about our little cottage and big back yard when we lived in Ohio was that we had an old, stationary, built-in brick barbecue in the back. That was fun to have--maybe that's something to consider having built. Like the others, I like your stone patio and think it just needs a little grooming. I also like the tree. The rainy weather and winter debris makes yards look worse than they really are, so don't get discouraged. I think it has real potential to be a very tranquil place.

  • no_green_thumb
    Original Author
    15 years ago

    Hi, Kim,
    Kent/Stow is not far from here. Growing up, we had a brick fireplace in the back yard. My dad built it and I have wonderful memories of Friday night corn roasts out there. My dad would buy a big burlap sack of corn on the way home from work, then peel off part of the husk, then soak it. He would build a fire, then when it got dark the neighbors would all come over and we would eat corn. What a memory!!
    I agree that the pics make it look worse than it really is. I was out there today cleaning up some, but it is still way too wet to do much. Digging in the mud just makes a bigger mess.
    I think the biggest pain is the patio. Every time I think of the money I spent and the lousy job I could scream. I am thinking about what jetjvr said about losing the bed on the left. I am thinking about maybe losing part of it and using some of the larger pavers as a pathway to where I could put the grill, somewhere by the AC unit.
    I am also thinking much, much simpler. The two big plastic pots are gone. One literally fell apart when I tried to move it today. I think sometimes that less is more, so I am going to strive for that.
    I plan to start calling people to come over and see what they have to say, now that I have a few (very few) ideas in my head. I have no idea what the estimates would be, but have DH convinced that we really need to spend some money to spruce it up a bit.

  • gk5040
    15 years ago

    Here is one more idea to "recycle" what you have. Maybe the slate/flagstone can be cleaned up, lifted up and then reset properly into a new cement patio. I am sure you have a lot invested in the existing flagstone and I would not get rid of it, either make a walk way with it or reuse it. If you had a new poured concrete pad with the slate set in the cement it would look lovely. I bet someone could reuse the slate you have and have it look fantastic. Good luck! Take another picture now that you were out there cleaning it up, because you are right, it looked pretty bad in the pictures you posted. Adding the right green plants to the garden will also make a world of difference in the end.

  • teacats
    15 years ago

    Recycle and re-use!

    First create a long narrow deck out of the two upper doors so that you can walk right out onto a deck pad.

    And then add a step down onto a basic concrete paver patio. We have built these -- and it is really easy -- just takes some time. The key is to first create a boundary line with smaller bricks add then a good layer of sand and let it be "damped down" -- and then add the simple square or rectangle of the paver stones. THEN add pea gravel as the "mortar" around the patio. You could make the patio go around the tree -- and yes! add one of those benches that go around trees! Very cool!

    THEN take those slate stones -- and create a walkway out to the other concrete patio -- add a standing trellis and create a gazebo out there. As pictured above -- you could even add a firepit and easy chairs for a conversation area. And it could block out some of the view of the other homes.

    Here is a link that might be useful: Lowes.com -- concrete paver stones

  • neetsiepie
    15 years ago

    Some thoughts to consider. The patio abuts your foundation. Whatever you have installed there it is imperative that it drains AWAY from your house. This doesn't appear to have been properly graded, thus the sinking.

    I'd like to see a nice deck here, you've got the vast expanse of lawn area and a couple of hardscaped areas. Soften up near the house with a low deck and planters. Make this your BBQ area.

    A nice stone pathway to the concrete pad. I'd definitely install something overhead, a pergola or even one of those seasonal canopy things. I see this spot as an asset...could be your 'sanctuary' area.

    Foxglove is a deer resistant plant that will give you some vertical height near the house and bring in lots of color. It's probably one of the easiest plants to grow too.

    Your soil looks like it might be compacted, and having those pine trees all around, your soil will be very acidic...hard to grow much there. Definitely get a soil sample. You might try sprinkling lime and till that in then reseed.

    Think more vertical...get some shephards hooks...they're easy to stick in the ground and DH can hang his birdfeeders on them. Or dig some holes and put in 4x4 posts with birdhouses & feeders. That will also help to camoflauge the tree line.

    Think pathways that lead to secret garden spots...you can put up low stone walls and create more raised beds. Oh, so much possibility!

  • kim2007
    15 years ago

    no-green-thumb, that's a wonderful memory to share about your father and the neighbors!!
    pesky1, that's a really good point. Ohio is often very wet, so you need to be vigilant about proper water drainage. I agree losing the bed on the left would help simplify and better define the area, and using some of the stones as a pathway sounds great.

  • no_green_thumb
    Original Author
    15 years ago

    more interesting thoughts. Thank you. Yes, drainage away from the house is important. The current patio doesn't come right against the house. There is about two feet of flower beds. That is another thing I want - the patio to be raised a bit, because all of the soil and mulch washes from the beds onto the patio.
    Teacats - interesting thought about recycling. I love the pavers, just not the way they have been put in. I have been fighting that patio for nine years, every year putting more stuff in the cracks, trying to get it even so the patio chairs don't fall over!!
    That is why I am almost thinking concrete, as it would be level and even, but don't think I really want it. I know the pavers can be put in so they are level and will stay put -- I just need to find someone who can do it.
    I will have to look up foxglove, Pesky. I have a lot of shade so will have to consider that as well.
    There are a lot of nice things that grow during the summer, so the pix I showed are before anything starts to come up.
    There are shasta daisies that grow around the AC unit.
    I am liking the idea of somehow carrying the patio through the bed where the AC is to put the grill there. Lots to think about. We get two more nice days here, then it is supposed to get cold and rainy again!!

  • prairiegirlz5
    15 years ago

    Hi no-green-thumb!~You really do have a lot of hidden potential. It has been a long winter; I am in IL, so I know how different winter and spring can look! Still waiting for plants to "pop" here, although a little green is finally peeking through.

    I did a paver installation in my landscape construction class. They need a gravel base, and proper grading. Their installation makes them more impervious to water than flagstone, which will heave slightly, so IMO flagstone is not the best choice for a patio right next to the house. They tend to be somewhat expensive.

    BUT the cost of installation of your existing patio included the flagstone itself, which you still have and can re-use, so don't despair! We have a flagstone patio in the far corner of my backyard, and I think that could look lovely with your forest backdrop. It is really not expensive to do, just labor intensive. Many nurseries have staff that might be able to do the job or recommend someone, so if DIY is not an option, you should get several bids before proceeding. Or, this is what I would do if it was MY yard...

    I think it would be best if you had a deck installed; one without steps, just a walkout that extended from the corner all the way to the purple fence to the left of your ac unit. Replace that panel with six foot cedar fence panels, to hide the AC from view. To add interest, stagger the fence heights. The deck would have an octagonal cut-out for the tree, and low wide steps to the flagstone path connecting it to the cement patio. The flagstone path would be wider at the steps and narrower towards the patio, but it would be at least three feet wide, four feet would be better.

    I wouldn't touch the stone edged bed of hostas and ferns, except to maybe trench the edge slightly, so that the stones "sink" and are no longer a problem when you mow. I really dig (no pun intended) the natural stone and flagstone combination. However, the wooden deck and cement patio are both more practical surfaces for grilling and eating, more sure-footed. I agree that the cement patio is one logical place for your existing grill. Since that was also expensive to install, why not re-use it?

    Have you seen these type of gazebos, they're a great way to define the eating area from the lounging/bar area closer to the house? They are designed to be taken down and stored in the winter.

    Here is a link that might be useful: Gazebos

  • no_green_thumb
    Original Author
    15 years ago

    Thanks Prairegirls. I am going to try the trench thing for the stones. I reset those every Spring as they sink over winter. I was looking at some other borders at Lowe's, but they all look unnatural.
    I do like the natural look. My back yard is really pretty with all of the trees. I am going to have several people in. I just hope I don't get another idiot! That is why I like DIY - if I screw it up, I screw it up. I have no one else to blame!

  • prairiegirlz5
    15 years ago

    I was thinking(uh-oh!), if you're dead set on getting rid of the concrete patio, you can always reuse the chunks. I have seen that in magazines but not IRL.

    But I really think it could work connected loosely to the deck, which is already installed in my mind, LOL. I have a deck that height with a tree in it, if you want to see it I can take a picture for you. It is the lower level of another, higher deck, but still would convey the idea. I used a lot of stones around it, with plants tucked into the crannies, since that part of my yard would otherwise be just dirt.

  • no_green_thumb
    Original Author
    15 years ago

    I really think I want that concrete slab out. I don't know where I could reuse the pieces. As for the tree, it is a flowering crab. It is gorgeous at the beginning of May, then that's it. It drops apples, which brings on the deer for lunch - and with the deer, well, you know. Also, it has some disease which turns many of the leaves yellow brown and then they drop. But DH hangs a bunch of bird feeders in the winter, so that's that. I don't think I want to build a deck around the tree, because I am hoping it may die! I don't want to force it to die, i.e., bleach, etc. I couldn't deceive DH. He lets me do what I want 99.9% of the time - so if he wants this stupid tree, so be it. The back is so shaded, I think it would be more open without it, but it is staying for now. Soon the area around it will be covered with sweet woodruff.
    Deck, stone, pavers, concrete, stamped concrete, so many options!!
    I am going to make some calls today to see about getting estimates. We had three relatively nice days here, now it is raining and we are supposed to have one week of off and on rain and by Monday ---- rain and snow. Grr!!

  • prairiegirlz5
    15 years ago

    Well of course you could always replant another tree. I think your apple tree should be removed and replaced. Japanese maples are often used in protected sites, they need part shade. The newer Black Lace elderberry would also look nice and it has fragrant flowers too. The messy fruit would ruin the deck, and a diseased tree so close to the house is dangerous, as its branches can fall and hurt someone. You could always fill in the hole left for a small tree with more wood decking.

    My deck has several angles, it's not a pure rectangle, I think that makes it more interesting. I would not put a bench around the tree, unless it was something portable, not built in!

  • cl_lesleinlawn_com
    15 years ago

    I would contact this guy. I know he an help you out. He is one of the best in his area. His prices are right and he works by himself, so you get great communication and service.

    http://lesleinlawn.com/

    Here is a link that might be useful: Leslein Lawn & Landscaping