Houzz Logo Print
david_diy

plugged ipe - to sand or not to sand??

18 years ago

I plan to fasten 5/4 x 6 ipe using the "face-screw and plug" method. I have heard numerous conflicting opinions regarding sanding vs. not sanding ipe before applying a finish. Here are my questions:

1. How can you possibly get away with NOT sanding if you are using plugs? Spot-sanding the plugs to level them off only will only make matters worse by causing an uneven surface texture on the boards!

2. I am considering either TWP 116 (per John Hyatt's advice) or Penefin for Hardwoods. Any comments regarding the sand vs. not sand approaches using these two finishes?

3. In addition to (or instead of) sanding, what about surface preparation on new ipe? Oxalic acid wash? Other deck cleaner?

Thanks in advance for your help and suggestions!

David

Comments (22)

  • 18 years ago

    You definitely have to sand.

  • 18 years ago

    I used a Dremel with sanding wheels to carefully smooth out the plugs. Granted, it wont be the best look when it is done, but I was careful not to go on the boards as much as possible. Just thought I would share it with you. I plan on sealing with the 116 TWP in a week or two.

    I don't know what the main consensus is, but I didn't think it would be necessary to sand all of the boards, just to get the plugs smooth. Good luck.

  • Related Discussions

    several Pinus clausa, Sand Pine, with witch's brooms

    Q

    Comments (10)
    "I came across several specimens of Sand Pine, [i]Pinus clausa [/i]with witch's brooms." eric_9b, you can italicize with at least two different codes on this site. One way is to use the i and /i as you did, but replace the square brackets with less-than and greater-than symbols, which are usually shift+comma and shift+period. [If I try to show what this looks like, the site software treats it like code and hides the whole shebang.' You can also italicize something by using em instead of i. Whatever you see in Preview Message is what you'll get in the final post.
    ...See More

    Sand or Clean IPE before restaining?

    Q

    Comments (1)
    Michael, I've been hoping someone would reply to your post, as I plan on using Penofin for the first time in the near future. From what I've read about Penofin, I'm drawn to the basic clean and restain every year, as opposed to stripping and all that. Can you comment on anything else regarding Penofin? Is once a year sufficient to keep it looking decent? How long does it take for the fumes to dissipate? I've read they are brutal! My plan is one coat when the deck is finished (next month I'm thinking), one coat in the fall, one next spring, and then yearly from there. Hopefully that will keep my Ipe looking nice. Any thoughts/advice is appreciated! Kim
    ...See More

    Sanding: Hand random orbital sander or large vibrating sand

    Q

    Comments (9)
    I have to disagree about the Bosch RO sander really sucking. I have 2 Bosch RO's and they're actually quite good. They are WAY BETTER than Porter Cable, DeWalt, or Ryobi, which I have also owned in the past. There are many different models of RO available from every manufacturer. Check the speed of the motor. They're rated by orbits per minute. 12,000 OPM is good. I would not get one rated for less. The Bosch models I own are the 3107 DVS and the 1295 D. The 3107 is really powerful, it would work great for sanding a deck. The 1295 D also has nice power, but it's a bit smaller and lighter. I use it for finish sanding. Neither model leaves swirls as long as you let the tool do the work. Swirls happen when the tool is bogged down by the operator using excessive force which prevents the motor from orbiting randomly. The sanding pad needs to spin freely to leave a nice finish without swirls.
    ...See More

    Will this work? (trimming ipe plugs)

    Q

    Comments (4)
    Thanks for the responses guys. I do have access to a multimaster tool - so I'll give that a whirl. You both said NOT to use a router, but neither said what problems could arise. Just curious - can you share? I'm not trying to get out of sanding......I will be sanding the entire deck. The reason I want to triim first is that I'm working with 1x6, so the plugs stand much higher than with 5/4. I guess I'll try the multimaster, and also try just sanding only and see which works better. Kim
    ...See More
  • 18 years ago

    I use a makita orbital with 60/80 grit pads, sanding like this has no effect at all on how the finish takes, the ipe comes with a higher grit right off the boat.I dont prep a new ipe project at all,or wait to put on the finish for anything but dry weather.

  • 18 years ago

    Thanks, guys! Would it still be wise to use a cleaner to remove sanding dust residue, or will a shop vac be enough?

  • 18 years ago

    shop vack,air hose,broom,water hose,an old tshirt,preasure realeased from Ken's Ego vent, things like that. J

  • 18 years ago

    That's a pressure vent. LOL

  • 18 years ago

    Before you decide to face screw and plug, check out the Deckmaster System noting ALL the information about IPE, not having to pre-drill except near the butt ends, etc.
    deckmaster.com > support.

  • 18 years ago

    ok, instead of lurking around, I finally decided to join this great forum.

    I'm building my deck on my own. My theory is: building decks shouldnÂt be harder than building softare :-). hmm, may be IÂm wrong. I hope I'm not!

    my deck is 34Â 11" (parallel to the house) by 20Â . It is 8 foot high. Following the county code, I designed it with 6x6 at 6' 6" beam span (that makes 6 beams). Joists are 2"x12" @ 16" OC. the joist span is 18' with 2' beam cateliver. The deck will hang on the house with a ledger. Decking will be IPE 5/4X6 pregrooved. So my questions are:

    Is this span too much especially that I'm using IPE for decking?

    Should I stick to 5/4X6 or 1X6 IPE (nominal) is fine? (is it worth to save the money?)

    I live in Loudoun County, VA, and I'm buying from Tart Lumber. They have the IPE material in stock for over a month now. I live only couple of miles from them. Should I still air it for few weeks at my place?

    I understand that you guys don't recommend Deck master hidden fasteners. What about Eb-Ty? or do you recommend T&G anyways?

    I plan to stain to Cherry or redwood color. What is the best product out there? Should I hold off staining for couple of weeks after decking? The guy at Tart suggests that I donÂt have to wait and I can stain all sides of each board before decking. But then do I have to sand first? is this a good idea or is he selling me more stain?

    Thank you guys. this place is a goldmine

    Curious_Dude

  • 18 years ago

    Hey Dude,your post structure sounds fine but the span might need a little work. The span tables a person might look at are rated just a whisper above failure and are not set up for outside/deck projects,as a given 2x12s on 16'' centers wont fall in but your project will bounse as a few folks walk on it,those little girls doing a river dance would really get it going.I really recomend going with a shorter span.One way to do this>>>I am thinking you want a 2' cateliver,set four posts on creet piers 18' out 11'7 11/16'' on center,build three 11'7 11/16'' beams,four 20' beams, install the three beams on top of the posts,land the 4 20' beams on top of this structure,header off at the center of the span, 10' with three more beams fastened with joist hangers,joist in on 16'' centers using joist hangers as well. The beams could be made up with double 2x12s,1/2'' plywood, counstruction adhesive.I dont recomend using the clips or the metal L channel underneith. For the no fasatener showing look I use T&G ipe(1x6),screwed thru the T,counstruction adhesive on the joists.I never prefinish all four sides or prefinish at all for a lot of reasons.TWP is the finish I use but we are limited far as color goes, they dont really have a cherry, the redwood looks a little fake to me I use the rustic color on ipe most of the time.TWP says its product can be tinted to any color but I have never found a paint store that will do it.I dont wait for anything but good weather to put the finish on.J

  • 18 years ago

    Hi Everyone!
    This website has been immensely useful and I appreciate all of the time put into it by the regular posters.

    I have a question regarding the question of the year it seems about whether to sand IPE and I want to be specific. I have just had a T&G 3/4 x 3 1/2 covered porch floor installed (it is outside but does not receive direct rain). The installers are insisting that they need to sand in order to even out the slight variations in height from the T&G boards before they seal it. Is there a different answer to the sanding question if you are planning to urethane it compared to using an oil finish? My husband is adamant that he wants the outside porch to look like an interior hardwood floor, so he would like to urethane it using a satin finish........is there advice one way or another on this, and also should we sand if we are going to urethane rather than using the TWP or Cabot's SPF product? Do I need an SPF product rather than just a urethane if I want to keep the rich dark color "wet" look?

    By the way, I need to plug Banner Elk Trading (Bill) for doing such an amazing job with me and getting the wood to me in 3 days, well crated/packaged and being so knowledgeable. They saved me from the nightmare I was in with Austin Wholesale Decking, and I would be happy to elaborate if anyone would like me to. After talking to Bill, he has said that we can sand but I wanted to get the rest of your expert opinions!
    Thanks in advance for your help,
    Anastasia

  • 18 years ago

    Anastasia, cool name, Slap!! ok Im back. My strong advice to you and Dh..... Do not try to finish this deck the way you would a floor inside your house, dont use urethane on it...Please I am beging here,fawning at your feet,shaving my head and giving up Tecate,spraying my body with lighter fulid while in the lotis position and touching it off with my zippo, well not really that far but close. Dont Do It. Crawling on the floor thru broken glass John

  • 18 years ago

    Please do not use Cabot's SPF.

    Please do not use any type of urethane.

    Violation of either of the above will surely cost you major dollars next year having a professional trying to remove the peeling, flaking mess that will surely have occured by next spring.

    I use a product that would give you the results you are looking for (a soft satin like sheen) but it is contractor grade, needs to be custom tinted and should be applied by a pro. It comes stock as a honey color that looks pretty rich on ipe, but still may not be your cup of tea. I tint it. You can have your contractor contact me at customerservice@restore-a-deck.com if you are adamant about the finish.

  • 18 years ago

    Thanks for the compliment :) After all of that torture you just put yourself through to get me to not finish the porch like an interior wood, can you give me a reason to not do it that way? My husband wants the porch to look like the tropical hotels/rooms we stay in when we visit central and south america, so I am going to have to make a case to use something other than a urethane. The ceiling of the large porch is also T&G stained wood that will receive the same treatment as the floor.

    Will the urethane distort the way the color/quality of the wood looks? I am trying to navigate between what my hardwood install guy is telling me and what I have read elsewhere and here. I was told that the cabot's SPF is a film forming sealant anyway, similar to a urethane exept water based, so what would the difference be? Banner Elk is telling me to use the Cabot's (the SPF, not the Australian Timber Oil), but I know that you use the TWP product. I am just a homeowner trying to do this correctly and playing the role of the GC....unfortunately I have the subs giving me conflicting advice :)

    Thanks!

  • 18 years ago

    Hey guys -
    Thanks for the info and advice......will definitely contact you for the finish advice, but I still don't have an answer on whether I can sand or not??? I have an L-Shaped porch and we had to miter the corner and there is a ridge where the boards meet on that angle.....how do I make it so that someone doesn't trip on the edge or the edges splinter with wear if I don't sand that corner so that it is smooth? If you can't sand IPE, then what is the point at having a hardwood floor because eventually I am assuming I will need to fix scratches/gouges etc (although I know it is more unlikely to happen with this wood.....I have 7 dogs). There are also some water marks and strap marks on some of the boards that I want to clean up.....

    Also, what kind of putty should I use to fill in the cracks where the angles meet on that corner? Sorry for the layman's terms, I am trying to learn :)

    Thanks!

  • 18 years ago

    Man,that was close,I had my thumb on the flint. Where is Don when we need him?? he is a guy that comes over here every so often that lives in S America,anyway inside floor finish 101, controled inviroment, install the T&G material sand it flat and smooth, some of the sawdust will get in the small space between the flooring the old Carpenters wanted this but latley they have vack systems hooked up,anyway the idea is to have a seamless look, clean up all the dust put on a few coats of urethane inbetween light sanding,allow plenty of time for each coat to dry in a dust free area.Outside finish 101,non controled inviroment, temp change sun,rain,hail,snow things like that. It dosent matter if the project has a roof over it its still outside exposed to weather changes,rain,cold,hot, sun this works on the finish up and down and will shatter a urethane finish,like breaking glass only on your deck the chards will be glued to your deck and will be all but impossible to get off.The finish has to move with the weather.
    So how do they do it in S America??? thats why I was hopeing Don was around,anyway I am thinking they do it with a hand rubbed finish,that is they are building coats with a product that sticks to the wood and to itself over time they build a finish that will hold up,actually bonding it to the wood like burnished leather,burning it in with a lot of labor. And of course its not a one time thing,them Boys are working it every now and then so you Folks will come back and have a drink with them again.
    Then there is the drainage thing,water is going to get thru that floor,it dosent matter how little that might be,it has no place to go so it finds a home in the ipe, the ipe being its own freindly self,swells up to make room for more and KaBongo your floor is buckled. Its not the ipe guys fault he was just being freindly,its your fault for not providing drainage and cloging what drain there was with sawdust and urethane.
    So how would you do it?? John you ol smarty pants! crawler thu glass know it all!!!We might want to start another topic for this,its time for my pain meds. J

  • 18 years ago

    You mean that was BEFORE pain meds? hahahahahaha

  • 18 years ago

    John,
    U da man. Thanks for the great advice. My girl is only 14 months, I guess by the time she is ready for the river dance I should be moving out to another place :-)

    I forgot to mention that the 6 6x6 posts will be on 18" creet footing with 16" thick in 2 feet deep holes (this county is pretty tough with their spec). I will have to do some redesign following your advice and see how it works. I went to the lumber guy today and I asked to see the IPE they have before I buy. Oh man, what a mess, the lumber is full of splinters and cracks, they have it under open roof (sounds like oxymoron), so some rain with wind wood soak it in water. The guy was trying to convince me that it is generally normal in wood. I did what he said though. I found many people saying good things about BannerElk so I will call them tomorrow. You and Pressurepros said many things against IPE clip fasteners so I decided to scrap the whole hidden thing and go for surface and plug. Did I make good decision?
    I also plan to wrap all the visible ACQ with vinyl for the looks. Any advice you have for a newbie like me would be great. I will be back soon when I get to staining. I will send you pictures after my project is done.

    Thanx again J

    Dude

  • 18 years ago

    Call the George at east teak 800.338.5636. He should be able to answer any question you have and his material is dynamite stuff.

  • 18 years ago

    Anastasia,,,sigh,sounds like a water fall in Russian,,,, You can sand ipe anytime you want, there is no problem sanding ipe I use a 5'' Makita orbital.Fill the miter cracks!! what kind of a carpenter left those!! anyway its possible to fill them with tightbond111 glue and sawdust you get from the orbital, most all floor guys know that trick.

    Dude, like for sure man!!! I always wanted to say that. Pluging makes a nice job last I heard the George also sells the ipe plugs.For the no fastener look I go T&G ipe,I use shop made plugs for the rail system sometimes but not the whole deck however several Conractors over here plug the Wallets deck with good results. J

  • 18 years ago

    Curious,

    Like others, I don't recommend clips and buscuit systems, but I would look into Deckmaster brackets deeply before you dismiss it completely. For those who have used the system with IPE have found it reliable, relatively easy to install compared to
    clips and buscuits. Check it out, especially the support pages.
    deckmaster.com

  • 18 years ago

    I have learned a lot from this forum, it has been great reading what everyone is doing.

    IÂm planning on building a Ipe deck starting in spring, and I do have a few questions for the experts here:
    1) John mentioned using T&G, and you screw into the T. Can you please explain this process a little more? Do you have to pre drill and counter sink? How tight do you push the next piece into this piece? Will water accumulate on the deck? How about ventilation, I thought you need the space in between so air can move through.
    2) 1 part of the deck is small, so IÂm not worried about the span calculation. 1 part of the deck will be 15Â4" wide. I plan to have concrete footer 2Â back, and attach the other end to the ledger. That makes it a 13Â4" joist span. The length will be 18Â, and I plan to have 4 footers, so they will be 5Â4" apart. I want to use 4x10s for beams between the footers, and 2x12, 16" OC for joist. Will this be sufficiently strong? I donÂt want to end up with a trampoline this close to the family room.

    Thanks for your input.

  • 16 years ago

    I am looking for suggestions on removing a Sikkens product stain from IPE completely so that I can re-stain with a different product. Should I just sand it with an electric sander? use a chemical stripper, if so what type? or a combination of the two methods?

Sponsored
Dream Design Construction LLC
Average rating: 5 out of 5 stars4 Reviews
Loudoun County's Innovative General Contractors
Best of Houzz 2025: The results are in!