Mine is getting filled as we speak and the area will continue to be a work in progress with an Ivory travertine patio floor down the road. This is a modest existing pool remodel. We took out the silly spa with its four puny jets, odd size, and no light and made it into a conversation niche. In the before design you couldn’t heat up the spa without heating up the entire pool. Surface- Wet Edge New Zealand Tropical- peal matrix but with the deeper blue/green dye used in the Chilean Tahoe. The last picture with spa and orange coping is the Before .

Tresw: Thanks for lookin' into my plumbin' mess! I appreciate it! I had a feeling that the pool was bigger than 40k gallons thanks! As I feared the SWG is gonna be a mess! As far as flex goes, man I wish I had heard about the termite problem before hand. We have run some of the plumbing in flex, but we were actually able to run most of it in rigid. So far we've used only 45s and small pieces of the flex pipe for more gradual corners for joints. The drawings came out aweful!! Sorry! Looks like I'm going to have to re-scan and re-post them. Thanks again! Repair_guy: I'd love to see any references to how the dual intelli-chlor system is done. I have the tech. manuals, but it just illustrates the by-pass loop for plumbing over 100 gpm. I'm assuming that the second intelli-chlor is in the by-pass loop. Is there a better solution out there? I'm not interested in dragging home anymore chlorine. I'm OK with buying 2 SWGs upfront it the maintence cost would be reasonable. If you have a link to anything I would greatly appreciate it. I guess I garbled my words on the deep end plumbing supply lines. Lets see if a picture is really worth a 1000 words... The pair of drains in the foreground supply the intelliflow 4x160, and the pair of drains in the background supply the waterfall pump (imaginary pentair AFP-120, as yet to be purchased). I was thinking about the entrapment issue when we plumbed it, but I've never built a pool before. Did I do it right? Thanks for the education on pipe sizes. Looks like I really blew that one! I understand what you are talking about with the surface area of the pipe. Basically you're looking at a cross section of each pipe and calculating it's area. I'm going to sit down and work some more numbers.... As far as the 4x160 pump, I thought the pool was 40k gallons when I purchased it. I didn't intend to run it at full capacity, and I was hoping to only use it close to full when we were using the seat jets (6 in a "Cozy Cove" in-pool spa seat). Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated. FYI, I did re-plumb the supply to one Aqua-Genie in 2", and plan on re-plumbing another one this weekend. That leaves me with only one at 1.5" plumbing, but it sounds like I should plan on replumbing it as well. (It would be a pain, but not impossible!) The returns are all 1.5", because of the extra plumbing to the waterfall and spa jets. Guess that's wrong too... I'll get out my pencil and paper... I'm trying to get the plumbing stubbed up to the equiment pad this weekend, so that the liner can be installed next week. Nothing like a deadline to get me going again! Yikes! Thanks for everything! -Renee

Please bear in mind that many of the builders that frequent this board are busy building. They will probably respond but it will take some time. Many of the people that post here also post at TFP too, myself included. If your pool is already walled, backfilled and decked, the fact that you have a Hayward light niche and sand filter already pretty much makes the continuance of the Hayward equipment for the sake of continuity and integration a simpler path. The additional warranty is a bonus as is the fact that it will likely cost you less. I hope you weren't stung too badly by the PB's actions that lead to his conviction. If the pool has not been decked yet, it may be possible to change the niche but I don't know if the the mounting holes will line up. I have never had to replace a niche. Adding an addition hole for another niche with a steel walled pool might require an replacement wall panel. That will likely cost you a liner too. The additional fixture and niche is what costs, daisy chaining the power is usually pretty simple if the deck boxes and near each other. Without the decking, increasing the pipe sizes is easier, regardless of the pump. Slower moving water = less friction loss which begets lower energy costs and also improves safety, especially at the suction outlets. While the returns will be smaller, especially with eyeball return fittings in place, feeding them with bigger pipes is beneficial. A 2" pipe can move twice the water at a given velocity that a 1.5" pipe can. Slower moving water through the pipes is less energy lost due to friction. WRT to whether the Hayward vs Pentair filter is better, I personally feel that the Pentair Tagelus is a better top mounted sand filter. The parts it's made from are stronger. A simple example the is easy to see is the stand pipe takes the filtered water from the bottom of the sand bed to the multiport. The Hayward uses a much thinner plastic pipe that is known to crack, leaking sand back into the pool. The Pentair uses pressure rated Schedule 40 pipe, a MUCH stronger material that doesn't crack. The Pentair Tagelus 100D, equivalent to the S310T 500 lb. filter, has a slightly larger sand bed. Pentair's multiports, in my experience, tend to last longer before needing attention/servicing. I am not a big fan of the Tri-Star series but that's what Hayward uses for their variable speed pumps. IMHO, a 3/4 HP Super Pump will give you the flow you need for filtering and backwashing. A simple Intermatic timer set(one for the pool pump, one for the pool sweep booster) is all the automation you need. The light is easily turned on and off with a switch. Changing to a LED fixture will not light the pool effectively with only one fixture. There just aren't enough lumens. Adding fixtures is a very expensive proposition. If it's what you want and are prepared to pay for it, great, but taking apart a pool to change a wall panel isn't an easy task. If the deck is poured, you'll lose the deck too. The addition of an automation controller and variable speed pump is an expensive eye candy set of additions that for your pool, are unlikely to be a cost effective, problem solving set of additions that would, in the long run, make repairs more likely and more expensive. Yes, the variable speed pump would save you on energy costs, but I don't think to the tune of the additional initial costs. If you decide against changing the plumbing size, you must remember to set the speeds/ flows down so they don't exceed 75 gallons per minute or you will starve the pump of water. This will cause a condition called cavitation where the impeller of the pump is spinning but not moving as much water as it was designed to a given speed, wasting energy and generating vibration at the shaft, increasing wear and tear on the pump's bearing, seals, and motor shaft that will reduce it's life expectancy. It will also run louder. The communications from Brand A's controller is different than the communications link from Brand B's pump. While Pentair offers the Intellicom II to help with Pentair's variable speed pumps, it cost's the non Easy Touch/Intelli-Touch controllers expensive relays and limits you to 4 speeds. It makes more sense to match the controller and pump manufacturers on a new installation. A two speed pump with any of the the major controllers is not a problem. They are all similar in how they control the pump and how the pump's speeds are selected which allows interoperability between the brands. The controller need to be configured with a two speed relay, both physically and in it's programming. Since you don't have a south facing roof, I think solar will be of very limited use and would be an expensive disappointment. A heat pump with a solar cover is likely to be more effective and offers a more economical way to heat your pool over a gas fired heater. If the pool is too hot, there are versions that can cool the pool too. If the pool has a return port installed already for an auto filler to be connected, the Letro will be fine. It's not something you can just add to an already constructed pool without going through a similar set of efforts needed for adding a niche. Better is a subjective term. WRT which salt cell I think is better designed, I prefer the Intellichlor because it's electronics are on the cell, not in with the power supply. This offers two significant advantages. The first is at replacement cell time, you get new electronics. The second is the heat in a power supply cabinet will shorten the life of the control board of the other brands of cells. Pentair also offers a larger available unit that will last longer than the Hayward. If you go with a gas fired heater, it should be a 400K BTU unit. How the gas company feeds their meter is their problem. Heaters, funaces, stoves, etc... require a substantially lower pressure but consistent volume after the meter to function correctly. In order to supply the volume a pool heater needs at the lower gas pressure a residential device needs, the pipe size needs to increase. The added size adds a steadying buffer for the pressure as other gas appliances turn on and off. The heater's regulator is a 3/4" line. The shorter the length of pipe @ 3/4", the better. A 400K BTU heater needs at least a 1.5" supply run before it's reduced to the 3/4" connection. Long feed lines need 2" pipe to the meter but I don't get the impression you will need that. The person you spoke to at the gas company may have misunderstood you needs. I have never heard of a gas company having to run a separate line/meter to a residential home. I'm not saying it isn't possible, only unlikely that the existing line feeding the existing meter couldn't handle the additional load a gas fired heater would generate. That is normally just a change in the meter. Meters serve two purposes, one is to measure how much gas is used and the other is to regulate the pressure to the customer's plumbing. Given the information you have shared, I suspect that my replies will give you plenty to think about and will save you some money. Think about the wants/needs/haves ratios and the constraints I have mentioned. If my understandings are correct, you will find my suggestions reasonable. Best Of Luck; Scott

Quote: "I have checked out my PB with the BBB and everything looks great. He has built pools for 5 personal friends dating back 8 years and none of them have had any problems and recommended him highly." Excellent, sounds like a great track record! ==As far as automation...forgive my ignorance...would that be the Pentair Intellitouch Wireless? He has included the 4 keypad in our bid but I'm wondering if I should request the 8 keypad. Any thoughts?== Yes, I just responded in your other thread too but the Intellitouch is your automation system. Since you've got Pentair automation you should definitely consider the 4 speed Pentair pump (4x160). It's an excellent and efficient pump and can be programmed to run at various speeds for different functions through the Intellitouch. Regarding the keypad, it really depends on what you're controlling. Is it the QuickTouch remote? If so, that's just a simple 4 button on/ off keychain-sized controller. They also make a full-featured controller that allows you to make adjustments as well as turn things on/ off (costs a lot more though). ==One other thing...our weeping wall will have 4 weepers along the 40' wall. There will be a loveseat in the water in the back center so no weeper there. Should I request a fifth weeper at the loveseat? Would that require additional plumbing or pumps?== Hard to picture what you're describing, do you have a plan you can scan & post? I guess it depends on whether you want water spilling on you while you're seated or not. It would require additional piping, but probably not another pump.