I had to do the kitchen plan in two parts because to scale it was larger then my paper :)

Here is a link that might be useful: Other portion of the kitchen

Finally figured out how to post pictures in the post. I was trying to put the picture in the URL and couldn't figure out why it wasn't working.

Refrigerator Wall

Workcenter U

I have taken some of the suggestions that I have gotten here and hope that I'm on the right track.

THANKS!!!!

I would have major concerns about there only being 9" between the stove and a major walkway. Does the stove have to be on the DR side? Can you move plumbing/electrical/gas whatever and does the sink have to be in that general vicinity?

Remodelfla - We are gutting the kitchen and will have to move the plumbing and gas so I have the ability to move things around. The new location of the refrigerator is one of the old entrances into the kitchen. The back wall has to have a window but even the opening can be moved.

I am also a little concerned with the stove placement. I have moved it around in the kitchen but haven't found a better spot for it.

Suggestions?

Thanks!!!

Do you have a family that requires you need a full sized DW or could you manage an 18" DW?

There are three of us. I'm sure we could get by with a smaller dishwasher. I've never even thought of that. That's what great about this site, the creative people who think out of the box.

OK.. I don't have capacity to draw but I'm thinking (going from the 9" cab by the doorway) 18" DW, 30 or 33" sink base, blind, 12" drawer, 30" range, 30" drawer, corner super susan, 30" drawer... uppers as you need them. Having the frig over there may not be everyone's perfect but you have a limited space and it is certainly something I could live with.

I have a corner sink - the cabinet above it has a glass door & then the window is directly to the left. My window looks into my family room, but I believe that it was originally a window to the back yard before the family room addition was built.

If you have a cabinet over your corner sink, make sure you have an under cabinet light there. I'm so glad we decided to do that, as the corner tends to be dark.

i think putting the sink in the other corner might work better also. then the stove can be against the back wall toward the other end. dw can be on wing by DR door.

putting a double sink in the corner shouldn't be a problem. I've seen them before. will see if i have a pic in my 'idea folder' - not that I was thinking of one. Found 2 - below. the first one you can't see the sink much but you can see enough to tell it's a big sink. I do think it is a double. the other one shows a double sink.

They're both gw kitchens.

{{!gwi}}

Thanks for the pics and the advice.

Remodelfla - We thought about the sink on the dining room wall but the problem is that you are staring at a wall or the bathroom door. I want to keep the sink near a window. So I think it needs to go either in a corner or on the back wall :(

Keptoz - How much unseen space does your corner sink take up?

I have redone the plan with the sink in the other corner. What do you think?

I have two concerns.

1) Where do you put the window on the back wall.
2) Also not sure what the range hood will look like if it's near a window.

my sister had a corner sink in her prev place. the window was right along the sink. on the interior wall she had shelves for collectibles - for her it was her mugs. and a plant...

could you put a wall up on the interior side of the sink? you could hang a photo, print, other wall hanging. a mirror to reflect the other side of the kitchen.

also note the corner 'platform' (same corner sink as one I posted above) and the little under cab tv. you could put a little tv there - or one of those digital frames.

By unseen space, are you talking about underneath? The sink doesn't take up much at all - if I open the cabinet, you can't even see the sink & its a fairly deep sink (I think 10" or more?. Its all hidden behind the false drawer front) But - the garbage disposal does take up a lot of space. I store things like dishwasher detergent, sponges, garbage bags, etc down there, but not too much, b/c it is awkward trying to reach things. there are probably some decent ROTS or other storage solutions - I need to look into them for that cabinet.

It's great to see the pictures of the sinks and cabinets.

Desertsteph - I can put up a wall on the inside of the corner sink. The window could be to the left of the corner.

Keptoz - What I mean by unseen space is how wide the cabinet has to be hold a double bowl. I am hoping that it will fit in a 42" sink base but I'm not sure.

To tell the truth I'm not sure that a corner sink is the best decision for my space.

rlkamp...would love to help you out, but I can't tell all the dimensions I need...I'm confused as to how much space you have between the fridge wall and the other wall... Is it 11.5 feet? If you give me your overall room dimensions, I can throw it in some software for you later tonight.

becktheeng - That would be awesome. My overall room dimensions are 12ft long by 10ft6" wide.

However the back wall which is pictured in most of the sketches ends at a wall that can come out so I can gain a little space, maybe 5" of so before the new back door area.

The below layout may help

The new back door is being placed where the current pantry is and the hall entrance is being closed off at both ends to create a small laundry room. The builder believes that I can open the wall about 10 feet in total. The other obstacle is the chimney which is 66" from the back wall and is 18.5 inches wide(builder stated that after he walls in the chimney I'll have about 65.5")

Thank you and everyone else who has offered up so much help already :)

So, you think you can move the wall that backs the pantry about 5" over and open it up about 10'? Can you make the "hall to the back door" even smaller? It seems like you have a 60" area where the pantry was and that seems like some valuable space. I've been playing with it for awhile but haven't come up with anything great yet.

Can I ask what kind of cooking you do and how big your family is? Is there a reason you have the new opening right next to the fridge? What is the main traffic pattern in your house?

Hopefully if you come up with some of the

answers, that will help me come up with a plan....

Sorry for broken post.

I am hoping that it will fit in a 42" sink base

for what it is worth , I have a single bowl that is 23" wide and the base cabinet is 27inches.
So it seems with a 42inch base you should be more than fine.
I would have gone larger but only have a smaller kitchen ( 9x9) so needed the space more

becktheeng - The builder believes that I can remove that wall between the current pantry and the current kitchen all together.

The max space for the money I have available to spend is about 10 feet so I will have to keep the wall at the other end of the kitchen by the new laundry room at least partially.

As for making the back door smaller, I can make it a bit smaller but there is a covered deck on the back so I can't move the door all the way over to where the bathroom is. I think the max gain I can get is at least 5" (width of current wall) and then I'll have to start the frame of the back door.

I'm not sure how wide a space you need to frame in a back door, I was thinking about 42" or so. If it's less, maybe I can gain a few more inches.

As for size of family, there are three of us, myself, my husband, and my 11 year old daughter. My husband is the cook, he's also 6'4" so we are going for 42" high wall cabinets and since the ceilings in the kitchen are somewhere around 12ft. It should work out well. He likes to cook both in bulk for lunches etc. and make some more gourmet meals (I'm a lucky girl) He uses a lot of fresh stuff so he has many gadgets that he uses.

As for traffic. We spend the majority of our time in the family room on the front of the house, we don't use the dining room at all. I'm hoping the new kitchen will change that if we can get a more open feel.

I am going to attach another plan I was working on last night. It doesn't have a corner sink or a U shape. It's more simple but maybe simple is better for our kitchen.

The other wall would remain the same. It would just be wide open between the back door and the area where the fridge is.

I've tried so many plans and I'm just not sure what will be the best use of the space. Here are a few pics of the current kitchen.

Left of the picture is the chimney

Current Backdoor

muspic - I hoping that a double would fit in a 42" cabinet. Like you, I have a pretty small kitchen and am not sure that a corner sink the best use of my limited space. Plus with a corner don't you have to really watch your adjancent cabinets.

Sorry for the delays...I was having a heck of a time last night....anyway here's what I thought was the best....I do like your last plan. And simple is definitely easier...I just like a little more space around the range, but I see you have no countertop now...so any is a big improvment. I would definitely go with 42" uppers...I have some 48" uppers and they pack a lot of stuff.

I'm not wild about the range in corner, because the wall cabinets become an issue adjacent to the hood. The plan shows a 36" back door...I haven't put dimensions on yet, but I thought I'd at least post this so you didn't think I forgot. Work was busy today, so I couldn't post earlier. I have a corner sink and love that it gives me good space between the sink and the range for prep...the sink I show is a 24" single sink in a corner cabinet. I have a 30" single sink in a corner with a 27" inch cabinet front.

Have you thought about moving the kitchen to the dinning room? It's a little bigger with less obsticles. It may be out of budget for you though and I don't know how you feel about walking through the kitchen to get to the back door.

becktheeng - Don't feel bad about taking your time in responding. I understand that everyone is busy and you are offering free advice. Funny you should suggest the dining room & kitchen swap. We had an architect come in and that was his suggestion as well. We took the plan to the builder but we just couldn't afford it. The move alone without cabinets and floors was over $30K and we only have about $20K to spend.

That being said, this isn't going to be our forever house. We want to have a kitchen that we can enjoy that will enhance the value of the house but we didn't want to overbuild the neighborhood. As you pointed out, anything is an improvement over the current layout/counter space. Then there's the condition of the room, I can't wait to get rid of the ducks etc. :)

My husband seems set on a double bowl sink but maybe we'll take a trip out to lowe's or home depot so he can see some of the alternatives.

If we place the range in the corner, where would you think we'd put the microwave. We weren't going to put it above the range but in the cabinet by the refridgerator. What would you do with the dead space around the range? (That chimney really kills my flow :( )

I love the idea of the extra counter and visibility into the dining room from the dishwasher area and the extra work space by the range. Do you think we should consider selling the current range and getting a cooktop and a wall over?

Thanks again for all your thoughts and help to date.

I figured the cost was an issue and I definitely wouldn't even consider the move if you aren't planning on staying there long term.

I tried the cooktop wall oven combo and I don't think it works well...I can play with it more tonight...I will also put your plan into the program.

I was thinking the MW would go over by the fridge, unless your DH uses it a lot in his cooking. In looking at that area on your plan, It looked like you had fridge, counter (with MW) and tall pantry. I would reconsider the tall pantry cab as it will make the counter in between the Fidge and pantry useless and they are more expensive than the wall/base combo. I would consider regular wall and bottom cabinets instead. You could then put a toaster and cofee maker over there too. Then you could distribute the "pantry items" in the following way: Snacks, bread, cereal coffee etc over by the Fridge; rice, flour, pasta over near the range. I hoping that your new laundry room could house extra paper towels, napkins, towels and cleaning supplies.

Does your DH like the double bowl because you don't have a dishwasher? I see your current sinks are shallow, so having a deeper one may help the situation.

Becktheeng - You're probably right about the cooktop and wall oven and since we bought a nice gas stove. It's hard to justify changing it after 2 years. (That's how long we've been in the house)

We were planning to put the MW over by the fridge and I'm not sure if I mentioned that the fridge is counter depth. So it's also wider then usual I think. It's 35" wide. We basically use the mw to reheat so it being there shouldn't be a problem.

I like the idea of going with cabinets upper and lower instead of pantry. I think that will save money and the extra counter space isn't a bad thing either.

As for storage of bulk stuff, our bathroom has one whole wall dedicated to storing bulk stuff in cabinets. They aren't very stylish but they are functional so that won't be a problem.

We currently have a dishwasher it's next to the chimney, you can see the corner of it in the picture of the sink. It's not a built in one but I wouldn't call it mobile either (It has it's own water source etc.) So I'm not sure why he wants a double bowl but I think we will take that field trip and see if a single might meet his needs.

I like the idea of the U shaped kitchen and when you move the dw on to the outer wall, I really like the fact that you could see people in the dining room while you're working in the kitchen. In the plan that I came up with, your back is always to the rest of the house. I like the idea of visiting with DH while he's working but I haven't been able to find a good plan that brings the kitchen into the house.

Thanks again for all your suggestions. It seems to be coming together.

Glad it's coming along....I still might consider having the range on the chimney wall because in the corner you loose tons of wall cabinet space and some base cabinet space...but I would leaving the sink in the corner. Here's a shot of my U, with sink in the corner and cooktop adjacent to the other corner.

The dishwasher is moved over to the end on the finished drawings and the oven and counter are switched....I have slightly more usable space in my becasue I don't have a chimney in my way.

On the sink...you can always make a single sink a double by putting a wash pan in it, but you can't make a double sink a single sink!

Anyway, so since your husband does most of the cooking, make sure he's comfortable with how things are shaping up. Who does the dishes? Since I cook my DH does the dishes, so he had a little say in what the sink was.

You're right. DH doesn't usually do cleanup. We are going to take a trip to check on single bowl sinks. I think it's probably the best bet for our kitchen if we go for the corner sink.

I love your kitchen, Your house is on par with my forever house. I envision being able sit an the island with a glass of wine and watch my husband cook.

That being said the closest thing to that I'm going to get in this house would probably be your plan minus the corner stove. I will probably keep the stove on the chimney wall to save valuable space in my plan. Then I will move the dishwasher on the other side of the U. It makes sense, still gives me the open feel and at least I won't always feel like my back is to the rest of the house.

We are going with Kraftmaid cabinets and I was looking at their spec sheets for base cabinets and I am confused as how I'm going to get anything smaller then a 36" corner sink cabinet. Are there other choices? What is the dimension of your corner sink cabinet?

I'll mock up the plan you are thinking of later tonight. Then you and DH can see what it would look like and where you would put things. Thanks for the compliment on the kitchen...it's my forever house, so I spent time and money thinking about what *I* really wanted. I don't get the impression that I will get to do it again...so I enjoy helping others out to feed my addiction.

I would be slightly worried about moving the DW over to the other side of the sink because you might end up with a conflict between the DW door and the range door. With the corner sink set up, you really need a small cabinet between the sink and the DW to make it comfortable to stand at and load. Ours is a 10" open shelf (frameless cabinets) with 3 shelves....one that has towels and dishclothes in it, one that has garlic and onions, and one that has potatoes.

I think the corner sink I have in there is a 36".

Here is the floorplan you liked:

The corner sink is a 36" base....15" pullout trash or drawer stack to the right. A 6"+/- filler, 2-24 base cabinets, and a 42" blind base to the left. Didn't have a blin base in my software, so it's shown as a 42" regular base. I didn't really figure out the cabinets on the fridge wall.

I really like the plan. I can definitely can see the benefit of the corner sink. Thank you so much for putting it together.

I have one more thought about a layout and it may not even be worth looking at. But what would you think if we moved the backdoor into the middle of the kitchen basically where the two sets of drawers are. I could leave the stove where it is and gain space on each side. I might be able to use the current pantry just moving the door into the kitchen rather then the hallway. It may not even be possible and it may cause me to lose too much counter space but I was just thinking of every option to ensure that I have picked the best one.

I believe that you are right about the single corner sink vs the double bowl and I really like the idea of nixing the pantry in favor of the counter space.

Thanks again.

regarding the adjacent cabinets. I have drawers on both sides. The sink cabinet is inset a bit which makes it comfortable to stand in and gives the drawers the place/space to open

So funny muspic, I just commented on your post before I even got to my own post to see the pictures here :)

What type of cabinet did you use in the corner?

I don't think I'd like having the traffic path through the kitchen between the sink and stove. I think you would loose a lot of counter space. It might would counter wise if you didn't have the pantry. But then it would be odd with the door to the bathroom in the kitchen?

The current plan is very functional other than the area around the stove.

Could you put the door to the outside where the window is next to the chimney near the basement door?