Mark- I live in Pacifica. My full time gig is in Menlo Park, but I work all over the area. I get almost all the outdoor wood from Empire Lumber in Belmont. Mike always gives me good prices and the pick of the stack. Hardwood and specialty ply- I buy from Aura in San Jose. You're right about the quality of all Redwood these days, It's nothing like the old growth stuff. I found an old 4x4 Redwood post the other day, and was cutting it for kindling. I couldn't believe the rings! They were too fine to even count. I polished the surface with a razor blade to bring out the grain. Then I got a magnifying glass and started counting. There are about 300 rings on that 4x4! There is a stretch in the middle that appears to represent a drought that lasted for over 100 years, with a pattern of 10 to 20 years of almost no growth interspersed with one or two years of significant growth. What an amazing record of natural history an old redwood tree holds! Compare that to a redwood 4x4 at a box store with only about 10 rings in the cross section. The new Redwood does not have anywhere close to the same rot resistance. The 4x4 with 300 rings will last about 30 times longer without rotting. I think tree farming is a waste of the environment just like cutting old growth. The wood is crap, the habitat is worthless, and the energy used to harvest the wood over and over is a bad deal on the environment. How many acres of tree farmed redwood does it take to equal one old growth tree? The tree farm land will never becaom a mature forest habitat. The 1,000 year old tree has wood that will last for 50 years or more. The tree farmed tree takes 30 years to grow, but the wood only lasts 10 years. I never source wood from Home Depot. Like I mentioned, sometimes I'll get onesies or twosies from the Home Depot Pro in Daly City, if we end up short. Most of the lumber and sheet goods there are a total joke.

We live in the Santa Ynez Valley of California and have redwood decks on the East, West and South sides of our home. After extensive research I decided to try Sikkens CETOl SRD on the new decks on the East and South sides of the house. That was in 2004. I used the 078 Natural color on the East and South facing decks. I used the 054 Redwood color on the West facing deck (in my backyard). After two years I noticed significant degradation of the stain on the South side which gets lots of direct Sun. I sanded and reapplied the 078 stain and it brought it back to near new. The following year (third year) I sanded and reapplied 078 stain to the East facing deck with equivalent results. I noted that the West facing deck with the darker stain was holding up better but the color was ageing a little too dark. In 2008 I completed an addition to that deck and after sanding everything I applied a 50/50 mix of 078 and 054 stains. It looked fantastic although I can see that the old 100% 054 part of the deck is a bit darker than the new part with the 50/50 mix. Never the less, I have received many compliments on the color of this deck. It has held up well and will need a reapplication of stain next year. Note: The West side deck does get shade protection from the house until later in the afternoon so my guess is a fully exposed West deck would perform equivalent to an fully exposed East facing deck in this climate. I have used other products in the past in this climate (ThompsonâÂÂs, Behr, Olympic) and Sikkens is the best so far. While I have read good things about Defy I have not used it because I could not get it locally back when I started this project in 2004. My conclusion is that in this environment it is clear that no stain can hold up against the Sun for more than 2 or 3 years without significant degradation. Summary Sikkens is a good product. It is not perfect and does require maintenance. In this climate on South facing wood surfaces in direct Sun plan on lightly sanding and reapplying one coat every other to every third year. On East and West facing wood surfaces in direct Sun plan on lightly sanding and reapplying one coat every third or fourth year. If you let it get away from you (as I did on the South facing side over the past 3 years) the product will start to flake and peel in places. To restore you will need to scrape and sand to get a good surface then re-stain and it will look fine. The 50/50 078 & 054 color mix looks better than 100% 054 Redwood in my opinion and gives better performance than 100% 078 Natural. A stained exterior wood surface will always require maintenance much sooner than a painted surface. I like the look of stained wood and accept the need for periodic maintenance. If this is too much work then don't stain and just paint with a good quality exterior paint.

Wow, thanks for sharing your experience, guys. It sounds like you've both had good experiences doing things in pretty different ways. Thanks for the detailed suggestions, pressurepros. I've gone to your site and read up on the RAD system. It sounds impressive, and I'm thinkin about using it. The cedar is already bought and paid for, so I may be stuck with the non-kiln-dried variety from the big-box store. I've made some calls, though, and may be able to trade for KD stuff if it will make a difference. It sounds like gorillabuilder doesn't think it will. What's the advantage you see in it? Thanks for the pointer to the forestry guide, gorrillabuilder. Actually, I love hearing about the science behind what I'm doing. Today I read most of chapter 15 on finishes. You pros probably know most of this stuff already, but it was educational for me. If any other novices are reading this with similar questions, you can find the guide online at http://www.fpl.fs.fed.us/documnts/fplgtr/fplgtr113/fplgtr113.htm Some of the stuff I took away from the guide was, You want a finish that is going to repel water, but also allow vapor to pass in and out because, (a) water vapor is going to get in, it's just a question of how quickly, and (b) when water does get in (either as vapor or liquid), you want it to leave; you don't want your coating to hold it in the wood. A finish that puts a thick film on your deck (eg. paint) will keep out vapor the best. If you cover all surfaces. And only until it cracks. Then, it's going to cause the most water to be retained in the wood. These sort of supported what I think pressurepros has been saying here for awhile - you don't want to finish the wood in a way that's going to trap water inside. However, the guide also said "The paint film inhibits drying, as shown. This retardation of drying can have a drastic effect on the durability of painted wood fully exposed to the weather. The moisture content of the wood can approach the range where decay fungi can become active. This type of wood paint failure usually occurs on painted fences and porch railings that are fully exposed to the weather (Fig. 1510). Applying a water-repellent preservative or priming the end grain of wood used in these applications inhibits the absorption of water at the end grain and thus works in concert with the coating to keep the wood dry. For a coating to be effective in minimizing moisture content changes in the wood, it must be applied to all surfaces, particularly the end grain. The end grain of wood absorbs moisture much faster than does the face grain, and finishes generally fail in the end grain first (Fig. 1511). Coatings with good moisture-excluding effectiveness that are applied to only one side of the wood will cause unequal sorption of moisture, increasing the likelihood that the wood will cup (warp). When finishing siding, it is important to allow the back side of the wood to dry, particularly if it is finished with paint with high moisture-excluding effectiveness. Applying a water-repellent preservative or primer to the end grain and back of siding (see section on back-priming) prior to installing the siding improves resistance to water yet allows the siding to dry. Cupping can be minimized by using vertical-grain lumber and by minimizing the aspect ratio." What I take away from this chapter is that applying a vapor barrier (eg. paint) to all 6 sides will do exactly what pressurepro is warning against. However, since a water-repellent preservative is not a vapor barrier, applying it to all 6 sides shouldn't have that affect, but should in fact be beneficial. At worst, it sounds like a waste of preservative. If we're all still around in a few years, I'll report back and let everyone know how it worked out. Gorillabuilder, how do you apply the sealer to your deck? Did you brush and flip, or dip the boards? I'm taking to heart the suggestions you guys made to weather the wood a little onsite before installing it. I'm a little nervous, though, because I've had one unfinished board sitting at the site for a few weeks (I had used it as a sample to get a feel for spacing), and it is now *really* warped. If I lay the new boards flat across the joists, though, and don't leave them out in the elements for weeks, maybe they'll hold up better. No one seemed keen on the deck clips, so it looks like I'm stuck with deck screws through the surface. That may have saved me a couple hundred bucks, but it'll expose my imperfectly-aligned and spaced joists. So, my revised plan would be, 1. Bring the wood to the site, lay it across the joists 2. clean it right away w/the RAD system or Cabots cleaner/brightener (no sanding!) 3. Let it weather for 3 days 4. Stain all 6 sides with a "paraffinic oil based, trans oxide pigmented, semi transparent penetrating sealer" 5. Let the stained wood dry for 2 days (again, across the joists) 6. Install it (the old fashioned way, not with clips) Thanks for sharing your time and experience, guys. David

I usually agree with John's comments but the one saying "NO natural or clear outdoor finish has any uv protection use them and your project will go gray silver." I do not agree with. I think we had this discussion a couple of years ago but here again is my understanding of "natural vs clear color/finish". I agree that CLEAR finishes do not contain the pigments necessary to provide UV protection that keeps the wood from going gray/silver. However, natural are actually colors (natural to the wood) & most, if not all, including Messmers, do contain the iron oxide pigments that provide UV protection. I did use Messmers originally on my IPE deck and while originally it looked great it did not last & I ended up with black mold-looking spots. However, now I believe they contain the mildewcides that good stains like TWP,etc. have. But I changed to TWP116 & have been happy with that. Messmers website has on their FAQ the question/answer of: Q: I want to keep my wood looking natural? Should I use a clear finish? A: Clears with no pigmentation do not offer UV protection or color retention. Our products contain Transparent Iron Oxide pigments which absorb UV radiation while allowing visible light to pass through. This results in a finish that highlights the natural beauty of the wood while still protecting it.