Penofin/Woodrich Hardwood Stain on Ipe: pics/comments durability?

15 years ago

I'm trying to figure out what penetrating stain to use on a new Ipe porch and stairs/railings I'm about to install.

When I'm doing searches I'm finding a lot of old posts from 2007 including posts of WoodZotic which sounded great until I discovered they're out of business so I'm looking for some recent user feedback on available products.

I'm thinking Penofin Hardwood Formula or Woodrich Hardwood wiping stain. Can anyone post pics of Ipe decks/porches/stairs they've applied these stains to and also comment on durability (including if they're exposed to sun/rain/etc.).

My porch area is open on front but will mostly be protected from sun/rain/snow. Stairs/rails will get partial sun and are fully exposed to rain/sun/snow. Mold/mildew is a problem here in the Pacific Northwest where I live so I ruled out Messmers since it doesn't appear to offer protection for mold/mildew.

Sort by:Oldest

Comments (12)

Wayne Reibold
Original Author
15 years ago
I just found out Messmers makes a UV Plus product that has an ingredient to protect against mildew/mold so I'm curious anyone's experiences with that new product as well, pics, how well it lasts...
john_hyatt
15 years ago
As it turned out woodzotic was just relabaling an existing product. Drift on over to www.woodrich-brand.com.

Most all the projects on my site were finish with TWP 100 series. J.
Related Discussions
new Ipe deck problems
Q
Comments (31)
Iron Woods is definitely used interchangeably across several South American tropical hardwood species including Ipe and Cumaru, but believe is also a proper noun in the instance of "Iron Woods" whose parent company is Timber Holdings USA which we believe is owned by Coastal now. Regardless, good guys with good wood. This does open the door to an interesting topic for wood geeks and homeowners alike. Grading standards.... There is currently no uniform grading standard for South American tropical hardwoods. Generally speaking the best Ipe coming into the US right now is clear three sides with allowances for small tight pin knots no bigger than your pinkie. So how can a layman homeowner differentiate between "grades" and know they're getting the quality they expect? Nominal vs. actual dimensions can be confusing enough..... As stated, there is no uniform grading standard, but here is a list of common "grade descriptors" that are indicative of top quality: 1) Clear 2) Premium 3) Prime 4) FAS (acronym for "First And Seconds") 5) FEQ (acronym for "First European Quality") While a company may use these and send you something of lower grade or water it down with a small percentage of B-Grade... (like all industries there are unscrupulous characters and companies), if you purchase wood in any of these five "grades" what you should receive is "clear three sides with allowances for small tight pin knots no bigger than your pinkie." In addition to "grade" names, always check references of the supplier and they should be happy to give you a list of satisfied customers. Another qualifier is whether the company is FSC Certified. While you may not be purchasing FSC Certified material, the certification process is arduous and an indicator of a reputable company. We don't know of any companies out there who would risk losing this certification just to make a few extra bucks. Advantage is right though, you get what you pay for and if the price seems too good to be true then you're probably receiving some percentage of inferior grade before we even enter the realm of discussing botanical names and specie substitution....., but we can save that for another thread.....
...See More
IPE Deck
Q
Comments (51)
There is a lot of information here. I hope maybe I can give a few insights into what I know about the subject of ipe and other Amazonian hardwoods. Ipe is not really that good for ground contact. It will rot with direct contact with the soil in our climate here in Amazonia. It is has not been used much as a choice for fence posts for this reason. But, if it is not in contact with the soil it will pretty much last forever. At least longer than most of us will be on the planet. The prime woods used here for fence posts are Itauba, angelim vermelho, pequia, and a few other lesser known species. Massaranduba also known as Brazilian redwood is a very good wood for outdoor non ground contact uses as well. By not being good for ground contact I mean it will not last much more than 10 years. While some of the above may be fine for 50 years. Ipe has been one of the prime flooring woods used for probably 300 years or more in Brazil. It is the equivalent to oak in flooring applications in Southern Brazil. The big advantage to ipe is the stability when air dried. There are few species that move as little as ipe. It also does not surface check very much. About 20 years ago or so they used to make prefab country homes for use in Southern Brazil out of ipe to a large degree. As the cost increased they switched to garapa and other cheaper and more abundant woods. In the area I work we have a lot of Massaranduba and Europe is the major consumer. The Europeans use the antislip profile on boards which hides defects somewhat. And, they do not use wood finishes much from what I understand. In addition the climate in Northern Europe is more humid and stable than most of the USA which is better for Massaranduba. If Massaranduba is properly dried it is fine in any climate. Ipe has gotten very expensive in Brazil and I think it is time for the USA market to look seriously at other wood species for decking. Which has been happening. This is also better for sustainable forest management as it uses the resource better and helps preserve the standing forest. Here are a few pictures of Massaranduba being sawn into deck blanks which were shipped to Holland to be milled into decking there. Hopefully some will find it interesting to see where the material comes from. Massaranduba logs on the sawmill line. Massaranduba being sawn. A massaranduba log. You can see the red color. The tree has a high latex content and is mixed into natural rubber in some places to enhance quality of the mixture. The white streaks is the latex from the bark of the tree. The boards which are 32 MM X 155 MM are cut to length. For Europe that is every foot from 7 feet up to 20 feet. Being packed for shipment. Here is an order of rough sawn ipe going to the USA.
...See More
IPE Information 6 Aug 09
Q
Comments (10)
Salmon: Thanks for your great work in compiling this. This link shows how to create a link within a document. A few things I'll add: 1. Another "where to buy" place is ABS Wood. I worked with Jeff at East Teak. 2. The decks.com guide is good. American Wood Products also publishes a good code reference. 3. I bought several deck books, and the most useful (starts with the basics, lots of photos) is Black & Decker's. It's updated for recent code changes. 4. I sketched out my plans and used decks.com's $99 plan drawing service. They did the load calcs, produced a framing plan, footer plan, and materials list in 24 hours. A great time saver! 5. Tools: I love the Bostich metal connector nailer, and have the Paslode framer and finish nailers (love them too, even if the framer took a nip out of my finger). I buy all my expensive power tools on ebay, and prices are generally 30-50% off retail for tools in good condition. If you're only using them for one project, you can put them back on ebay and probably recover most of your expense.
...See More
ipe deck finish...yes, again
Q
Comments (9)
thanks, folks. aidan and steve, twp100.com allows for online ordering via mfg sealants. and they've not kicked me out after i've given my address in felton. so, i am hoping i can get all the way through once i've made my decision. $55/2 gal., free shipping, no tax. and described that simply, you're right, that's what i want. i have been laboring under many misconceptions, and that was one of them. thank you. john, i assume you use a foam brush to get between boards? or does it flood that much and drip through? i've got the deck up but for the final three boards, and am returning all the remaining ipe to my supplier (big creek lumber, a local lumber yard who matched my quoted price from advantage lumber) for replacement boards (about 10% of the total of 1200ish LF). lots of mill marks, broken or poorly milled edges, bad staining, wormholes, and some big honkin' tearout. the rest is very pretty. once i get those final three on i was thinking of these steps: (1) clean with someone's ipe cleaner (any recommendations on good brands?) to get rid of the dirt, dust, etc., that's lurking in the ipe, (2) sand it down using 80 grit sandpaper to get rid of some mill marks and drill fuzz (around the countersinks), (3) rinse it really, really well and let it dry, then (4) put on the finish. does that sound about right? btw, i am a homeowner, not a professional, and have built this largely on my own (had help from a contractor friend to attach the ledger board, and various help from friends during the substructural construction process). it'll end up being about 500sf including stairs, and we'll be into it for less than $7K total including rails, and a shade arbor... thanks for your advice, and comments, folks! reading steve, john, and others' deck builds/advice has helped all along the way...i am hoping to put up a page to help others once i get this done; there are many little things you do in a deck build that you can only learn from doing it, or from one who has... best, bill
...See More
Wayne Reibold
Original Author
15 years ago
John: which TWP 100 is used in the pics on your site? The color looks really red, could just be pictures, but was curious which color of TWP 100 has been used on most of those pics.

Everyone else: still looking for opinions of:

(1) Penofin Hardwood Formula
(2) Woodrich Hardwood Wiping Stain
(3) Messmers UV Plus (with mildew/mold protection)

regarding how long it lasts (and what lighting/rain/snow conditions) and any pics you have

Thanks!
john_hyatt
15 years ago
Mostley the rustic 116. Latley I have been mixing cedar tone natural/dark oak 3 to 2 for a more brown look.Most Folks like the 116. J.
riles_j
15 years ago
John,

Have you ever tried the Honeytone on Ipe. I just got a few samples of Rustic, Cedartone and Honeytone (those were the only TWP samples they had) and tried them on some samples of Ipe. I almost didn't even try the Honeytone because the color chart shows a color quite a bit different from what I am looking for. Well I was quite surprised that it turned out similar to the Rustic, only not quite as red. Not what I expected and I am questioning my sample. Have you tried the Honeytone?

riles
john_hyatt
15 years ago
HT and cedartone nat are very close. Remember the lighter the color the less uv protection. J.
Wayne Reibold
Original Author
15 years ago
Anyone have feedback on using Penofin Hardwood Formula or Woodrich Hardwood wiping stain?
energos_aol_com
12 years ago
I will let you know in a couple of months. Iam about to test both on a western red cedar fence.
everyrose
12 years ago
I'm in the process of stripping Penofin from my cedar deck. Not the same thing as Penofin for hardwood but this may help. Deck in PNW. Penofin applied 5 years ago. Zero maintainance. The deck started looking pretty bad after 4 years but last summer I didn't have time to refinish it. Now in year 5, it looks real bad--dark gray and mildewed. I thought there was no finish left but it turns out the Penofin grayed and mildewed and there is quite a lot of finish left. Perhaps if it was washed once a year with a mildewicide it would be looking better. But lets be realistic, it had zero maintainance before, no reason to believe the deck fairys are going to come by and wash my deck for me. So I would say that with maitainence one could get 4 to 5 years in the PNW out of Penofin. When its time to refinish your deck, Penofin strips very easily with sodium hydroxide.
On the downside is the smell. Very bad on a hot sunny day. The deck was unusable for the rest of the summer after I refinished it! I could still detect faint wiffs of the odor the next summer a year after it was applied. For this reason, I will not be using Penofin again.
GWgal
12 years ago
I am a penofin user on my ipe deck.

Anyway, applying it was the easiest thing - with the railings I just wiped it on. The whole deck (500sf) took about an hour and a half. The most time consuming part of the whole project was moving the furniture off the deck and moving it back ;)

Overall I'm very happy with the color. You have to be careful as with any product to wipe off the excess since it doesn't soak into the boards as easily as other types of lumber.

Any questions about penofin let me know - i can probably dig up some pics if you like.
dooer
12 years ago
I've used both Penofin and Woodrich on ipe decks. Really not much to choose between them. They looked almost exactly the same.

Life expectancy is about 6mos. the first time, slowly lasting a little longer after each coat.

TWP is not available to us for enviromental reasons.
np0x
10 years ago
I have been looking around for different finishes, having used penofin on my ipe deck(8 years old) a number of times. I have always had trouble with penofin pealing off, the richwood penetrating oil goes into the wood and drys to a nice walkable finish very quickly.

From reading some of the comments I believe this is a combination of the good product as well as the age of my ipe(which is quite dry).

From using the sample packs, I have to say the variance on the colors (on ipe) is very subtle. The Western Cedar color has a very subtle red tone to it, that looks very nice on the rich brown of the ipe.

Penofin/Woodrich Hardwood Stain on Ipe: pics/comments durability?

Comments (12)

Wayne Reibold
Original Author

john_hyatt

Related Discussions

Wayne Reibold
Original Author

john_hyatt

riles_j

john_hyatt

Wayne Reibold
Original Author

energos_aol_com

everyrose

GWgal

dooer

np0x

COMPANY

BUSINESS SERVICES

GET HELP

CONNECT WITH US

Penofin/Woodrich Hardwood Stain on Ipe: pics/comments durability?

Comments (12)

Wayne ReiboldOriginal Author

Related Discussions

Wayne ReiboldOriginal Author

Wayne ReiboldOriginal Author

COMPANY

BUSINESS SERVICES

GET HELP

CONNECT WITH US

Wayne Reibold
Original Author

Wayne Reibold
Original Author

Wayne Reibold
Original Author