Buying a 5 bedroom house with 2 bedroom septic system

14 years ago

Hello, we need some help. We live in Tennessee and are looking to buy our first home. We found a house that we like very much with 5.5 acres. However, we have discovered an issue with it. Our biggest concern with the property was that the septic system was in good condition. Upon our realtor doing some checking, this is what we discovered; The home is a 1997 doublewide - originally a three bedroom, two bath & 1600 sf. There have been three large aditions added, now making it a five bedroom, three bath, and at 2640 sf. When we received the septic certificate, we found that the septic system is a two bedroom system with 220' of leechfield.

Here are my questions;

#1 Can the Tennessee Ground Water Protection Division be contacted - forcing the seller to upgrade BEFORE closing?

#2 If not, if the tank is large enough, can this sytem be added to to accomodate the larger home and be sufficient. Enough to be classified adequate if we were to sell it in the future?

#3 If no to #2, what would the cost be to have an adequate system installed?

We are a large family of 6 (4 small children - with 1 6 y/o diabetic), with young-uns that like to stuff odd things in toilets lol :). We are also a fixed income family, and could not afford a $6,000-$8,000 "surprise".

I would gfreatly appreciate someones input. Thank you in advance.

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Comments (6)

User
14 years ago
last modified: 9 years ago
I'm not an expert but I'd think that if the additions were permitted and legal the owner would have had to upgrade the septic system.

There's a chance the additions were done on the sly.

I'd check to see if the additions were permitted.
manhattan42
14 years ago
last modified: 9 years ago
I agree.

The additions probably were done without permits otherwise the septic system would have been required to be upgraded at the time.

Additions to manufacturer homes also typically require an architect or engineer to design them. Mobile homes imply cannot be added to in the same fashion that stick built homes can.

You can ask the sellers to provide the info or make corrections, but it is unlikley they will.

Check with the local code office to see what was permitted, but you're going to find it is probably best to walk away from this 'deal'.
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Throughout the years as we have worked on the house, we have been very cautious and done everything possible to do sensitive renovations that fit the period of the house. I too hate to see lovely old houses where people have butchered them. In fact, last night as I was once again watching "Flip or Flop" on HGTV I thought to myself how sad that they are coming in and just rearing down all of those great lathe and plaster walls. We have three kids, and our "illegal" bedroom worked as a bedroom for one of them for ten years. We just stuck a wardrobe in one corner, so we know all about using a space that isn't technically a bedroom as a bedroom. Now it makes a great office, something else that I would think might be desirable to a lot of people. We know for certain that in our neighborhood a master bath would be a huge selling point. In fact, about five years ago, a Realtor told us that this is the only thing our house is lacking. I am starting to think that there is just not enough space in the existing footprint to justify doing this. We know that many people do want move-in ready which would make doing this a selling point. However, amazingly enough, in our highly desirable neighborhood many people do buy these expensive houses and then come in and make extensive renovations like additions. We always ask ourselves where in the world do they get the money to make a purchase that expensive and then immediately also sink a ton of money in the house. Thanks for all of the help.
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Gardenwebber, that is SUCH a good point about "entertaining in their rooms". Here's a thought about your floorplan: have the kids take the back two bedrooms. Move your son to the smaller bedroom, the girls in the room with the closet. Take that wall that you guys put up and turn it into the bunk beds in separate rooms. This will give you a lot more useable floor space. Swing your youngest daughter's bed against the far wall and you will maximize the floor space there. Your son can have the lower bunk bed in his own room next door. That leaves the bedroom directly across from yours as a playroom. That also makes your own bedroom further away from the kids beds. The bunk beds are just drywalled with the mattress only on them. We have always had a rule that our kids cannot have a computer, video games or tv in their bedroom until they are 18. I do not want that stuff cluttering my downstairs living room. An upstairs space for this is the best solution. We built our current home knowing that we were going to have teens in them someday and to give them space separate from ours. Think about this solution. My husband would be happy to talk you and your husband thru the details if it is something you would be interested in. P.S. my 17y.o.'s boyfriend is coming for christmas for 17 days and there is no way in hell that she will be "entertaining" him in her bedroom!!!!!!!!!!!! Sherry
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dave777_2009
14 years ago
last modified: 9 years ago
Yep - you can cause HELL for the current home owner. Just like complaining about a car sitting on the street for over 24hours...

Course - your actually trying to BUY the house....

"Tennessee Ground Water Protection Division" might be able to scream at them... Demand they upgrade the system - or remove the bedrooms. So they could remove the bedrooms. Undo the entire remod. Course the house will be off the market then, and you wouldn't want to buy it - since it would no longer be a 5 bedroom house...

People remodel stuff all the time without permits. And I know of no house that is perfect.

A manufactured house can have bedrooms added to it. Safely. Even without the county's blessings.

Instead of trying to FORCE the current homeowner to do something - why don't you try communication and negotiating??

The current homeowner doesn't have to do anything. They can take the house off the market. Have you offered full price? They can refuse to sell to you - if you have not offered full price. You obviously have a counter-offer based on the septic - so they do as well. They might decide they don't wish to redo the septic. And say no go to your 'offer'.

You have 5.5 acres of land. It is possible - but maybe unlikely - that in all of these 5.5 acres - no land would be suitable for a 5 bedroom septic.

I mean - what if the septic can't be ugraded?? My brother lives on a lot of land, and the cost to upgrade his septic is quite high... It functions fine, but now the county demands that it meets code when the house is sold... and it does not currently meet code. It met code when built - but not now...

It is not in the sellers best interest to have tests conducted to see if the current septic, or surounding land can be made to function for a 5 bedroom house.

He has a 5 bedroom house. It functions for his family. If a septic eval states that his septic is not adequate for a 5 bedroom house, and cannot be upgraded - this makes his house virtually worthless. He must disclose this info on the disclosure form, etc. So - it is not in his best interests to allow a septic eval - when his septic functions fine.

Course - an eval might state it is adequate for a 5 bedroom house... Then he's fine...

Don't know what the septic rules are in Tenn. If you like the house, you might try teaching your children to be more careful about what they're doing, and still go ahead with the purchase.

Only a septic eval can determine if this is sufficient. And ground conditions, etc. SUBSTANTIALLY come into play with the cost for a septic. NO WAY are you going to know the cost to 'upgrade' without a substantial eval.

And if the county doesn't require it to be brought up to code during a sell - as here where I live - than no way are you going to FORCE this guy to do it...

I can't believe how adversarial people are! If the septic is currently working fine for 6 people, and you like the house - buy it - and do yearly maintenance on the septic, don't have a garbage disposal, flush tampons, etc....
jake2007
14 years ago
last modified: 9 years ago
Wow Dave777, I hope you feel better!

All kidding aside, here's the answer:

1. No, you probably can't "force" the seller to do anything.

2. Ask for a credit to compensate for cost of increasing the septic size. The seller may turn down this proposal, but this is the way serious defects that are discovered on inspection are handled. You may have to move on. BTW: Once the Realtor and seller are aware of the material defect, they are probably obligated to disclose it to any other potential buyer.

3. If they did the addition without a permit and took a shortcut on the septic, check everything else carefully. People tend not to just overlook code in one area.

4. I personally don't agree with Dave777, you don't want to reward someone for taking serious shortcuts on things like the septic. You also don't want to buy something that you can't sell later without doing expensive work. Keep those kinds of expenses where they belong - with the person who made that decision in the first place.
universlman
14 years ago
last modified: 9 years ago
Dear Broadas, Hire yourself a county qualified septic system designer to evaluate the site for you. This will cost you perhaps $300 plus $150 for the backhoe. Ask the designer if a "legal" 5 bedroom system can be built on the property and for how much. Approach the seller to reduce the price by that amount and make the sale conditional on receiving an approved design from local health for a 5 bedroom system. This will make sure that at the end of it all you will have a legal system to handle the wastewater from your structure. Anything less would point you down the road to another property without this flaw.
brickeyee
14 years ago
last modified: 9 years ago
Remember you need open land for the larger drain field that WILL be required to increase the size of the system.

How much of the 5.5 acres is open field?

Buying a 5 bedroom house with 2 bedroom septic system

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