((((((hugs))))))))

You are not alone.
Kitch renos are overwhelming with the best of friends and
can turn lovers into temporary enemies. Give yourself a
huge pat on the back because if your DH is like mine he
forgets to do this.

During my DH my sweet, handsome, kind loving husband turned
into a stubborn, obstinate, penny pinching, pig headed,
impractical, foolish, style or taste from his arm pits, Neanderthal
kind of man who had no clue what a sink drain was. Clue less.
And yet he acted like he was the king of kitch.ens.

He would tell me "Oh you choose honey?"

And after I chose . He would say. "Oh, you chose THAT.
Or Why did you choose that? Thats too bad, I like this better."

I found myself having to put my foot down on what I really
wanted and accept his insane comments with a grain of salt.
We created a sense of humor about our reno. He called me
crazy kitchen lady, I called him Cro-Magnus.

And I communicated to Cro by e-mail. Yes, from one
side of the house to the other.
He would laugh and send back a note.

And there is an old rule of giving bad news. Tell someone
you are going to give them bad news or a choice before
you do. Crazy? No, Tell your husband via e-mail or note
that you need to talk to him later when he has time about
the fina,ncial and practical choices of your reno. And that
gives him time to think about what you might say.
Tell him to choose the time and place to talk.
Then tell him. In a gentle, loving, with humor way that says
"Our marriage is first in all of this but we have a problem
and we need to fix it together. "

And in the back of your mind, use this motto.
Loose the battle WIN the war. : )

And the reno will be over one day and your marriage
will last many, many, many more wonderful years.
~boxer

Cawaps thank you for your post, and thanks to all who have responded with great advice. Very timely for my situation also.

South Pole...hmmmm...

Okay, I checked. This trip was to McMurdo Station

http://www.antarcticconnection.com/antarctic/stations/mcmurdo.shtml

which I see is on the coast of Antarctica.

His prior trip was to the South Pole station
http://www.antarcticconnection.com/antarctic/stations/southpole.shtml

I got mixed up. Sorry!

Cawaps, so sorry for your situation. Just wondering if there have ever been circumstances where you've gotten him to trust you/your instincts and he has ended up pleased with the result? Something you could remind him of, so that you can perhaps ask him to trust you again? Then ask him to make a list of his top 3 wants for the kitchen and tell him you'll accomodate them - and that you'll do the rest. We just built an entire custom home, with 95% of the decisions made by me. It was painful! But once it became clear that I was going to be doing the large majority of the work in the build, I also became the decision maker. It was only fair. Early on we DID have some type of conversation about how if we happened to disagree (we do like a lot of the same things), I would expect generally to get to be the winning vote, since I was doing the work. I also asked my husband to make a list of things he really wanted, so that I could try to make sure they were included too. But let's face it - this stuff is a TON of work, as you are realizing. It's not greedy or selfish to think you SHOULD get that tiebreaker vote. It's payment for doing all that work. My husband didn't want white cabinets either - but since I was doing all the work - and he trusted my taste - we got them. Now he loves them. Ditto the light fixtures, speed oven,induction cooktop, granite/marble ETC. I will also admit that the few things he really wanted (free standing tub was one) look great too.

(((Cawaps))) I'm sorry you're going through this right now. I could have written that same post about our almost-completed house renovation. I did 95% of the legwork and research and felt like I was always coming to DH for the yes or no. It got to be demoralizing and tiring and I really hated the dynamic of me soliciting his approval for a house that is, after all, ours. I truly understand your fatigue and frustration.

It does sound like a KD might be in order if you truly don't have the enthusiasm anymore - s/he could run with the "cherry and granite" idea and assemble some sample boards including backsplash and flooring ideas. The KD could also do a "white and quartz" plan, and one melding the two.

If you want to continue without the services of a KD, what worked for me in the end was presenting DH with a limited menu of choices, and all were choices I liked. Paint color? "We agreed that blue might be nice in the bedroom. I put up samples, and here are three blues I love and each would work well." Lighting fixtures? Same. If he nixed everything, it was up to him to come up with an acceptable alternative. It didn't always work - we'll be getting an electrical sign-off with switchplates covering some junction boxes because we never agreed on a few lighting fixtures - but it worked more often than not. Would this work with your DH? It means you get absolute veto power at the initial stages and don't have to share with him the options you reject out of hand. And whatever he chooses from the remainder, you already like.

I also found that presenting DH with a package of choices worked well, and that's my plan when we re-do the kitchen. Partly because it's easier to visualize the whole, and partly because it speeded up the process if we could agree on a number of things at the same time rather than tackling each room element by element. If you can do cabinet samples with countertops and ideas for backsplash and flooring all at the same time, you have a whole look/concept to sell him and less negotiating over individual components.

Best of luck. And please come here to vent - lots of us have been there!

You always hear how common it is for marraiges to suffer during renovations. Thankfully, DH and I work beautifully together in any project - our problems are surely there, just in other areas, so hopefully that can be encouragement that it IS possible for a marriage to thrive in a renovation.

Something came to mind in reading Jsweenc's post.

What if you looked at project kitchen as also project marriage? We've been to marriage counseling before and we would always have to think up scenarios in which the problems were presenting themselves - you would have plenty in this renovation if you were to view it as a "training field" and go to counseling during this renovation. The goal would be to have the counselor walking you through the renovation communication as well as ideally learning life-long communication skills that will only make your marraige better long after the renovation is done. It seems you would have ample opportunity to really truly put into practice the things you are learning.

Regardless, I hope things start to go smoother for you and your DH, and I too think no kitchen is worth a marriage. A strong marraige is such a beautiful legacy and heritage to leave for the next generation.

In our marriage, there are certain territorial boundaries when it comes to the ultimate "veto" power.

My husband has the veto power for all decisions regarding the boat. I do not have the knowledge or the interest.

I have the ultimate veto power regarding the interior of the house. My husband lacks the esthetics for it.

My husband has the ultimate veto power when it comes to the yard and landscaping.

We will have a joint decision regarding the total budget. But when there is a difference of opinion, having a designer really heps with specifics of the decision.

We try to not to use the veto power, but on rare occassions, you do pull rank on the other. It helps to clarify the decision making responsibility. No company will ever start a large capital project without an appointed decision maker. I think you need one in a marriage as well. Assigning an appropriate decision making role and trusting that person is good. You two need to decide who will have the ultimate decision making responsibility and authority when it comes to the esthetics of the kitchen, which is what you are not agreeing on. Either you or your husband needs to take on the authority and the responsibility that goes with that job. If he wants it his way, he does all the work. If you are not willing to do that then you NEED to convince him to give you the job and trust you for it.

In the past few projects, we have not used the designers extensively. I was the one that did all the leg work. For this remode, we are using a kitchen designer and at times, we defer the decision to her if there is a discord. MY DH has come up with really kooky "stupid" ideas that I can't disuade him from. But he will say "we will let the KD decide". This is good.

Does your plan call for an island? If so, can't you both be happy?

Have him pick the stain of cherry and type of granite he likes. You pick the color white and quartz you like. Do a mockup with yours on the perimeter and his on the island. How does it look? Maybe you'll need some adjustments on the counters, but I think you could come up with a gorgeous combination.

This is also expedient: you pick, he picks, put them together. Yes it's a compromise but it could be a gorgeous one. (And marriage is full of compromise anyway, isn't it?)

My husband and I do a fair amount of remodeling - and we both have very definite OPINIONS - we rarely fight, but I'd say the vast majority of our fights in 22 years of marriage have been over a remodel project. I have found a few things help us - we are very open EARLY in the process about the deal breakers. The things that he or I absolutely cannot live without or at times with (no chandelier in the bath for me). I am also the planner and I get extremely frustrated when I do hours of planning in a different direction and learn that he just cannot live without X. I've also found that I was often giving him too much information/choice. I'd show him three different lighting fixtures and then be disappointed that he didn't pick the one I wanted. Now I just pick the one I like.

In our first kitchen remodel we fought extensively about the range - I had fallen in LOVE with one after hours and hours of research - only to learn that he HATED ranges. I frankly wore him down and then had to listen to him complain for the next five years during the summer about how hot it was to cook in front when the oven was on.

Wow I think I'm more commiserating than helping :0 Good luck - hang in there and I would definitely say sitting down and talking about your musts and must nots - and doing some early negotiating can cut down on the stress!

I'm so sorry. Just plain reno stress is tough enough. I can't imagine upping the stress ante even further! The folks here had such good suggestions. I wonder about resolving the discord/stresses underlying the situation before tackling the kitchen. If you think it's really only about the kitchen, then bringing in a good designer may help. I ran into a designer at a tile place. She gave us her card and jokingly said that she saves marriages when people are in conflict about design decisions.

Yes, hugs to you because many of us who have gone through the remodels, recall the stress and it rears its ugly self in conflicts and negative feelings. We can relate. Reading about your experience kind of gives me a picture of someone who is sweet and articulate. If your DH said at one point that you could make the decisions, maybe that was his way of saying he wants you to be happy, but when it comes time to decide, his opinions, wants, thoughts about what is right are strong. Some of these decisions feel so permanent and big because they involve alot of money and they last for so long. They can also affect resale in the future if that is a consideration.
My suggestion is to try and think of it as not your way or his way, but how can you merge what you both like. Think positive, that with both inputs, it will be more creative. It will be a reflection of both of you. And if you have already agreed on the layout, well, congratulations! That is a huge step.
Probably cabinet color or wood vs paint is the next big decision. They can both be sooooooo beautiful. Maybe some negotiating, such as "Well, if we decide on cherry wood, which is more your preference, then how about this countertop, which I just LOVE...!"
Or maybe a few comments like "You know, we both need to like it, maybe since the biggest two decisions after the layout are the cabinets and the countertop, we may have to each take one or the other. Which matters more to you?"
Best of luck. I am sure it will work out for you.

Chicagoans: I appreciate the suggestion, and it sounds like a great compromise. But I wanted white cabinets to build a stong black/white graphic element to be the backdrop for a big pop of contemporary red (was thinking in the form of a back-painted glass backslash)--and I have not found an inspiration photo that does that vision justice. And the big pop of contemporary color--red or any other--is what I am having trouble fitting into the cherry cabinet kitchen, even if it is only a cherry island (My husband was all for putting in a bright red backsplash with the cherry and I said, "Really? You think that looks good?"--apologies to anyone who happily mixed red with cherry). It's really the color and the contemporary element that I am mourning, because the cherry kitchens that I like are either all neutral or they are very, very Craftsman with green tile.

But that is a subject of another post.

hmmm cawap - I'm purely guessing here - but is it possible that your husband started to feel like your vision didn't match the feeling he had for the kitchen? It sounds like you have a definite interest in something modern - I know my husband will often throw something totally random at me when all he's trying to do is sidetrack me from a direction I'm heading that he doesn't agree with ie cherry cabinets in a modern kitchen. Just a thought - do you two often agree on over all style and aesthetic?

johnliu - I sure did not mean to imply that someone could not go to the South Pole. I knew what you were saying. I was trying to be sarcastic and think about planning a trip for my husband. I am sorry my joke missed it's mark.

Antarctica would work just as well though.

What a great thread, very cathartic to read and write in!

Cawaps, I think it is really important to re-read what you wrote about modern design, color splash vs. how you see cherry. If your DH hasn't spent any time looking at inspiration pics, make him do it, either with you or independently. Send him the link to the finished kitchen blog. Buy some magazines and let him leaf through them. Our designer had us each do this and then bring all of our inspiration photos to a meeting, and then we went through each of them and said what we liked/didn't like. It was very helpful in getting us going in the same direction on our kitchen.

Since my DH is color blind I have come to learn that his visual esthetic is MUCH different than mine and entirely based on the contrast value. I like color, and I was able to show him a color scheme for our kitchen and get his buy-in pretty quickly. Then we spent an entire month sorting through our backsplash pattern. We ended up with random (my first choice) only because I think I exhausted him.

I'm certain that there is a modern application of cherry cabinets (slab doors, quarter sawn, horizontal grain, white/stainless accents. I can see a color splash of blue or yellow working well with cherry. You might have to reserve the red for the living room if your DH is in love with cherry. Start with what you can agree on and then move through the decisions in an increasing order of difficulty.

Cawaps - more hugs and support here. I too am in your boat. My husband hasn't been handling the stress of set-backs too well and it is causing me no end of stress. For the first time in 15 years I actually don't like him, if only for those few minutes when the stress takes over (he starts acting like his mother - a WHOLE other story). I'm just keeping my head down and plowing through, hoping we'll both be back to normal in a couple of months.

My old kitchen was modern/contemporary with slab cherry cabinets (although I did stain them dark), with a robin's egg blue glass backsplash. Perhaps it will give you some inspiration as you consider the cherry option. My main regret with that kitchen - that I didn't do white or very light quart/quartzite or granite counters (I did dark brown granite). I too would have preferred that strong contrast. I was very happy with the striking blue backsplash though.

My husband was sitting here with me and actually accused me of writing the original post!!! However, we aren't remodeling, we are building. DH is an engineer. He is very detail oriented. He is also very picky. He told me I can make all the decisions about the pretties of the house, he just had some specifics (had to have a theater room etc...) That sounded good, but it isn't true. What we started to do now, and it makes it so much easier, is that I go to the lumberyard, cabinet company, etc... and make all of my decisions. I then show them to him, with samples if possible. For example, I went to the plumbing supply store, picked out all faucets, and brought them as a list home. We pulled up the website and looked at all of them. He was happy with all of them except the main kitchen sink. That was 9 faucets yes, 1 no. So then we literally argued over faucets for 2 days. Then he dedided he was indeed interested in a pull down (before the sprayer HAD to be seperate for him) and the decision was made. I stress on this because I do SO MUCH research, SO MUCH time is spent on this. I don't work outside of the home, except we are the GC of our build, so that is my job (along with raising our 4 boys)

I just give on some things. Some don't really bother me as much as others, so if something doesn't REALLY bother me too badly, I make sure to make it look like it does so he "wins" on something I don't mind "losing" Then later when something is really important to me, I can say that he got to decide on whatever that was, I am going to call this. If he really hates it, I won't do something, but he will sometimes pick his battles too.

All contractors and suppliers know to deal with me. They all have my cell phone and email. No communication (or decisions) goes from them to DH (and I'll never see the phrase DH the same after this thread!!!) He is never to make a design decision on the fly... I don't give anyone the opportunity to ask him.

Good luck, just know, we're right there with you!!!!

Sochi, that kitchen is beautiful and I feel like some kind of clairvoyant talking about modern cherry cabinets w/blue & yellow color splash! Your pics made my day.

karen_belle - I know, too funny. I couldn't not post pictures of my last kitchen after your post! I really liked the blue and yellow with the cherry cabs - you must be clairvoyant!

midwestmama--my DH is an engineer as well. He only sees function. 1970's avacado green tiles that are not broken--in his eyes they are "keepers" because they are functional. In my eyes, I'd rather die than keep those tiles in my house. Is there a support group for being married to engineers? --will have to check out Odiegirl13's plan to ship DH to Antarctica! :)
(Didnt mean to sideline the conversation here)

I understand the OP's issue and am glad that people are coming up with compromises to incorporate the white and cherry together although I can see how the cherry and RED blacksplash are not going to work here. Hope it all comes together for you!

cawaps-

I don't usually respond to the "support" threads, there are many people here who are much nicer than I and provide support very well, but in your case, I have to respond. Do you have a marriage or a boss/employee relationship? Asking you to do a PPP on the kitchen remodel in your *mutually owned* h ome? Seriously? That sounds like something a boss asks an employee, not part of an interactive, mutual discussion/negotiation on a h ome remodel.

I really feel sorry for you, it sounds like your DH is a complete tool with no absolutely no regard for you as a person and equal partner.

sandyponder

For what it's worth, I understand that from Feb to Oct, no-one can get in or out of the South Pole station. (One time, the station doctor diagnosed herself w/ breast cancer in June but had to stay in the station until an aircraft could land in October.) So if the OP could send her husband there in Feb, she'd have 8 months to do the remodel.

I work 30 hrs/ wk and have 2 small kids. After scheduling every pediatric appointment, buying all the kids clothes, the crib, selecting schools, camp, babysitters. etc, every now and then my DamH says "Why did you buy that ($150 IKEA) bed without consulting me?!" Same in our remodel. AERRRRGH!

Let's go out for a drink and complain about our men. :)

Posting to this thread is so much better for my wallet than talking to a therapist.

JohnLiu, you are cracking me up. I'm sure most spouses fantasize about sending their darling to Antarctica - how much easier life would be without another person to check all your decisions!

karin_2009, as an engineer myself I must defend my people. While I do love function, I am not the perfectionist that my lawyer husband is and I bring my engineering skills to the project management and visualization of our remodel. I'm always the concept person and the project starter, he is the detail man and the one who makes sure all the little things are taken care of at the end.

I need a support group for spouses of procrastinators. I keep waiting for the logical consequences of my DH's slow process to actually result in some learning and behavior modification, but I think at age 50 he is definitely not going to change. So I'm left with being the one to push and prod and get him off his duff, because he is also the one to complain endlessly about decisions he didn't make himself.

I'd love to hear how Cawaps can get her DH to participate in a reasonable discussion about their remodel when he's working 55 hours a week and spending one wknd day on his sailboat. To me, you've got to pay to play. If he wants to be part of the decision making, he actually has to be present to make them.

I hope this isn't wildly inappropriate for this forum, but between the wine thread and midwifekim's post...here goes (and I apologize profusely if this just isn't done):

Do not ignore this warning!
Important Women's Health Issue:

Do you have feelings of inadequacy?

Do you suffer from shyness?

Do you sometimes wish you were more assertive?

If you answered yes to any of these questions, ask your doctor or
pharmacist about Margaritas.

Margaritas are the safe, natural way to feel better and more confident
about yourself and your actions.

Margaritas can help ease you out of your shyness and let you tell the
world that you're ready and willing to do just about anything.

You will notice the benefits of Margaritas almost immediately and with
a regimen of regular doses you can overcome any obstacles that prevent
you from living the life you want to live.

Shyness and awkwardness will be a thing of the past and you will
discover many talents you never knew you had. Stop hiding and start
living, with Margaritas.

Margaritas may not be right for everyone. Women who are pregnant or
nursing should not use Margaritas. However, women who wouldn't mind
nursing or becoming pregnant are encouraged to try it.

Side effects may include:
Dizziness
Nausea
Vomiting
Incarceration
Erotic lustfulness
Loss of motor control
Loss of clothing
Loss of money
Loss of virginity
Table dancing
Headache
Dehydration
Dry mouth
And a desire to sing Karaoke

WARNINGS:
The consumption of Margaritas may make you think you are whispering
when you are not.

The consumption of Margaritas may cause you to tell your friends over
and over again that you love them.

The consumption of Margaritas may cause you to think you can sing.

The consumption of Margaritas may make you think you can logically
converse with members of the opposite sex without spitting.

Please share this with other women who may need Margaritas.

Thank you.

teaforwendy - I needed a laugh today (this week actually)!! Maybe we should start a thread for kitchen fatigue, frustration, etc. with funny stuff. Laughing always helps.

OMG, that is just perfect.

Now you all know why I live in a 1950's kitchen with brown formica....it was the DH or the kitchen...

Teaforwendy: Too funny! I could totally see that as a TV ad.

Midwifekim: You know I'll take you up on that.

Everyone: I feel much better. Thanks for all the support and suggestions. I've been home with the flu, otherwise I wouldn't have been morose enough, or had time enough to post such a rambling lament. But I think I will get through both the flu and the remodel (eventually.)

Well, no one else has suggested this and, given that you live in an area with tons of therapists...

DH (very much a dear right now) has a close friend whose marriage was irrevocably damaged by the tension caused during an intensive house remodel. We were worried about experiencing the same thing, so we did several sessions of couple's counseling before starting the remodel. The therapist had a lot of experience with her own remodels, so she was able to help us work on communication strategies, problem solving, expressing appreciation for each other, etc., before we headed into the trauma of moving into 1/3 of your house while 2/3 is torn up.

I think that we came out of the remodel with a stronger marriage than we went into it -- very different from our bathroom remodel years earlier.

Just a thought...

I now realize what I have been missing!!!
The RX for margaritas.

I need a safe and natural way to feel better. Hee Hee
And can I have a little salt/lime with mine.
Fun suggestions.
~boxer

Cawaps, Hope you feel better soon! I love the support and shared feelings and funny insights I read about here, even when they are in response to someone else's situation.

I suggested some compromise, because that is what I had to do with our remodel. Though it was not on choices, but on time. My DH wanted the project done before his relatives visited, but I wanted, no needed to take my time to decide. At one point, my sister said,"Well, it sounds like you would have chosen everything before you even started if you could have!" (and she was surprised) Yes, I would have planned it all before starting out and once I found GW, I would have planned and consulted even more.

As it turned out, I chose everything as it was progressing and it caused much stress and tension. Now that it is done, it is okay, but I know that I HAD to give in to that one part of getting it done by DH's deadline. (At one point he did say it was okay if we did not do the kitchen in the rush, I knew that it mattered to him soooo much)

My Mom was very ill and that caused a delay. A situation with the cabinet company caused two major delays. And though we barely made it, I will never forget the stress of it all. I also know that it was the right thing to do.

I hope you too will find a compromise AND a way to communicate what is most important to you. If DH said you could choose, remind him, and tell him that you researched and planned and now have your heart set on such and such.

I can SO relate!
(We're in Year 10 of a whole house remodel, and we tend to fall into those same roles.)

I have to admit, I read some posts, skimmed others, and skipped a few entirely -- my span of attention is suffering, so I may have to try that all-natural cure-all TeaForWendy posted -- I know that's good advice!

1) It sounds to me like your husband is taking the 'executive' role in this remodel and delegating all of the subordinate research 'scut work' to you. Really, this whole thing reads like a scene from a typical corporate office where you make a big presentation to 'The Boss' and hope he likes it. Well, If that's the case for this remodel and your marriage is supposed to be an equal partnership -- well I'm sorry, but that's not fair. And if this is the case, framing the statement in just those terms (office setting, subordinate presenting to the executive) might get through to him exactly why you object and how you feel -- especially if he's ever been in that subordinate role. He may be willing to change his behavior, once he recognizes it.

Or - YOU could go with that arrangement and work it into something you can live with. (Once you recognize the pattern for what it is, if it's something you can deal with emotionally, it's not really so bad to live with.) As the designated researcher, you can present him with whatever choices you want -- eithera full range or only stuff you like! Give him three choices and let him pick the one. Or give him 7 choices to narrow to three, from which you pick the one. Or give him two expensive cherry choices and your favorite less-expensive white. Variations on this theme are endless. (When choosing restaurants in our family, we each submit two names to the pool in Round One - duplicates allowed. Then, in Round Two, we each get to take one restaurant out, thereby assuring us that we won't have to go to our least favorite place. Then we draw from the remaining choices.)

2) AND/OR - Try the Sweeby Test approach. What about stepping back a bit. Instead of focusing on cabinets, focus on kitchens as a whole, on finding 'a look' you both like. Once you have 'a look' in mind (really, more of 'a feeling') the pieces fall into place much more easily. Go through the finished kitchens blog and Gallery and identify kitchens you love and a few you really dislike. Copy the pictures to a folder on your hard drive and give each one a number. Then on a piece of paper with 2 columns (Like and Dislike), write a few words by the number of each one describing what it is you really like or hate about each kitchen. Use descriptive feeling words like bright, cozy, elegant, rustic, vintage, earthy, blingy, warm, sophisticated, cold, modern, dark, dramatic... You'll find certain words pop up over and over again in your 'Like' column. Then have Hubby watch your slide show and give you the same type of gut reaction feeling words for each of the pictures. (You can scribe since he's impatient.) See which kitchens and which words you have that pop up for both of you in the Like column. Hopefully, there will be some!

When you have a few kitchens you both like, see if you can tease out exactly why it is you both like those kitchens, and write it down! Seriously - writing it down is the hard part. Turn it into a Mission Statement: "My ideal kitchen will feel..."

Hang in there. And remember, taking frequent breaks is allowed...

Oh cawaps, So sorry to hear about your difficulties! I posted the original fatigue thread, but your situation is much more exhausting than mine. My husband has almost no interest in the plan, says I am overthinking it and being too much of a perfectionist.He has a great eye but couldn't care less whether we have potlights or pendants, induction or gas, wood or tile floors. Now I realize that might be for the best! At least no thoughts of Antarctica. Thank you, Johnliu, for that laugh!

I found that just posting here and having sympathetic people respond made a huge difference, it's nice to be heard.

We are with you, hang in there! :))

cawaps, I hope by this time you are on your way to recovery from the flu. Certainly illness can have a huge effect on the way we see things, especially when combined with other huge stressful issues.

I won't (at least try not to) be a wet blanket on teaforwendy's Rx. And there are many threads that contain such "recommendations", so I wouldn't say it's taboo here. In general I don't necessarily even object to the comments, knowing it's a running joke and most people don't think it's a serious suggestion. I can even see the humor in the gist of it... sounds like many of us need a good laugh about now.

I just had to respond to the one part about getting pregnant. For those seriously trying to get pregnant, there are strong recommendations to avoid alcohol ahead of time. Even for men. I wouldn't have thought anything about this before (two years ago). I mean I knew the part about not drinking while pregnant. But our baby was alcohol-exposed prenatally so I've been on a forum about that and found out a great deal related to alcohol and pregnancy and pre-pregnancy and drinking in general. (I don't necessarily buy into everything they say but I pay attention to the child development issues.)

My concern whenever I see this is for those (few, maybe even none, I hope) for whom it is a problem who might take it to be permission to drown their stress. I realize that those who chime in with this topic are joking about taking it that far, but someone in a vulnerable place may lack the ability to judge that. I usually keep quiet about it, but since it included a potential hazard for babies that most would have no reason to think about, I had to speak up.

BTW, Baby is perfect at 15 months, smart, gorgeous, on track developmentally in every way. There is still potential for many things to show up later, learning and behavior wise, but I am praying that she has been protected from that.

Sorry to preach. Just had to speak up about that.

Hugs and prayers that you'll be feeling better soon cawaps!

I think there is a bit of Mars/Venus going on here. Men, at least the ones I know, make decisions faster while women tend to spend hours on hours agonizing about the options available before coming to a tentative conclusion. The difference in time spent does not necessarily reflect the validity of the choice nor the strength of opinion. Find out how strongly your husband is attached to his overall kitchen vision.

I spent 10 years racing sailboats. It's really, really fun but can leave you really, really exhausted both physically and mentally. It would be a bad idea to try to discuss the kitchen after a long day of racing.

Meanwhile, it doesn't sound like you're having any fun planning the kitchen. And that is the fun part of a kitchen reno. How "bah" (bad? blah?) is your current kitchen? Maybe you should set renovation plans aside for a couple of months and do something more enjoyable. Life is too short and unpredictable to spend it stressed out.

Poor Cawaps, feeling under the weather and dealing with a difficult situation. Not fun. Cheer up, things will get better. Take comfort in that there are lots of us dealing with some pretty strange kitchen situations, each in our own way. We could probably write a book about them and make a fortune.

At least, you have a kitchen. I don't. Well, not a real one. My DH decided to surprise me and had a crew come in to demo our kitchen without telling me ... you may imagine how I felt when I saw it. The walls and ceiling were gutted to the studs and it was bustling with guys happily putting down a new subfloor and stringing up new wiring. Gobsmacked might cover it. He told me happily that I should start ordering cabinets and appliances, get whatever I wanted, as high end as I liked. I couldn't even speak. When I was able to, I told him that redoing the inadequate space we had wasn't what I wanted as it wouldn't give us one cubic inch more storage, that we needed to bump out the wall a bit. He absolutely refused entertain the idea of adding on or to discuss it any further.

So, I told the men to take my stove and fridge which were sitting in the diningroom, along with some of the cabinets and the sink they had just removed, and hook them up in our back hall. I then announced firmly to my husband that I would be happy with the new set up for the next six years, or until he decided to let me add on to the house. And, that was that. We hardly spoke for weeks because neither of us could explain to the other how we felt without causing a fuss. He thought he had been doing me a favor and couldn't understand why I didn't view it that way. We compromised. We ignored the subject, and the empty kitchen. It's been almost three years.

However, he finally gave me a budget and told me I was free to do what ever I wanted within it. I am adding on. Not just a kitchen, but a large addition which I am GCing myself. I started by having a geothermal system installed - DH thought I was crazy and that it wouldn't work. Now, he loves the way the house stays so warm and cosy. And, while he still doesn't want to discuss the project, which he calls mine, he's coming around and beginning to show some interest in it. We shall see.

Wow, Sunniflies. Can I ask what generation you and your husband are? I can't imagine being placed in those situations AND there are several situations there. Congratulations to you for taking your power back even if it had to be in a very agressive way.

Wow - Sunnyflies! That's some story...

How's your story evolving Cawaps?

There is no progress on the kitchen front. Well, that's not quite fair. My husband called a contractor, who is coming toninght, so DH is at least taking some interest in the project.

In the meantime, all your responses cheered me up immensely. It's reassuring to know I'm not the only one in this boat (and some of you may be in worse boats--you have my sympathy, too!). And I'm finally done with the flu (symptoms went on and on), so I'm feeling much better.

Oh brother! I rejoice being single.

My Sister is offering to pay for my kitchen reno, I immediately said to myself, No Way, No How in a million years. Why and have her give me her millions opinions? And this Sister I know, she's all sweet and mild mannered but oh boy does she have opinions. She's mad now that I declined the offer, but I am no dummy!

I have not noted much mention of money in all this. Is money not a dividing issue for those in Discord City?

Speaking only for myself - money is rarely the issue. My husband just has slightly different taste and actually has an opinion. Two people + two opinions = discord

Cawaps, I'm so glad you're finally feeling better!!

My advice, cawaps - is that you make sure to retain control over this project.

You do not want your husband and the contractor to do the male bonding thing, and proceed to make all the decisions on layout, appliance choices, and materials, while brushing off the little wife yapping at their heels.

You know that the typical contractor is going to instinctively take directions from the man. It is not clear to me, frankly, how much attention your husband pays to what you think. If the contractor says X and you say Y, who is he going to listen to? Especially on a supposedly factual, contractor domain sort of thing, like this material is better or that location doesn't work or this kind of drawer lasts longer. And you also know that the typical contractor doesn't necessarily know as much about kitchen design as he might think, or as your husband might think.

It might be good that your husband is taking an interest in the kitchen project. But it might not be.

If others don't think I'm being a silly, paranoid, overly Machiavellian man-basher, what do you suggest cawaps do to keep the reins?

For those who do think I am being such, consider that I know how it works, because I am an opinionated man and routinely overrule the views of everyone below me in the pecking order. Now, in my house that pretty much means the cats. But cawaps may have a different situation.

I laugh at all of the posts...my DH is both an engineer and an attorney...God help me. He too claims he doesn't care about the remodel (we took the entire house to studs), but yesterday he went around with his eagle engineer eyes and exclaimed, "There are 42 door frames in this house and over 50% of them are not exactly flush with the side rails. We could sue them!".....oh dear me. I know he was kidding, but after literally sacrificing my entire year to this project, that's all he could say? Not "oh the granite looks great!" or "Wow, love the tile pattern!"

Did I mention that the kids call him Daddy Cheapskate? He is notorious in my family and among our friends for being more than just a penny-pincher. He is 47 and still wears his rugby shirts from high school.

He told a relative last week that I am remodeling this house but he is going to sell it out from under us if he gets a good offer.......now that's appreciation :)

Cawaps, hang in there--we are with you, we will be here. My sister in law has cherry cabs that are modern and she added a glass backsplash--I could see a red glass backsplash--look at the red knobs and reddish fruit or cups in the corner, it would match :)
{{gwi:1657904}}From Misc photos

"You do not want your husband and the contractor to do the male bonding thing, and proceed to make all the decisions on layout, appliance choices, and materials, while brushing off the little wife yapping at their heels.

You know that the typical contractor is going to instinctively take directions from the man. It is not clear to me, frankly, how much attention your husband pays to what you think. If the contractor says X and you say Y, who is he going to listen to?"

Ain't necessarily so... My husband is a professional remodeler, and whenever he saw a situation like that, he asked the couple point-blank which ONE of them was in charge when it came to final design decisions, change orders and 'Plan B' compromises. For the kitchen, 99% of the time it was the woman; for other parts of the house, it was also MUCH more likely to be the woman. He also made it a rule that the designated 'in charge' person had to make themselves available for a few minutes every morning and every evening for a consultation to make any necessary adjustments and decisions along the way.

This post is funny and Sunnyflies, that is one interesting story. I should mention that I accepted the "rush" to do our kitchen because in my heart I know that it is not my last kitchen. All I have learned, I will take with me in my next home. Otherwise, I think I have the same backbone as Sunny. Luckily, my DH really does defer to me when it comes to aesthetic choices.
Still wishing you the best in getting it sorted out so you LOVE your kitchen with your marriage intact!

This is just to say:

Wow. What a lovely bunch of intell.igent, caring, funny people. How generous you all are to each other, how careful, how varied in your experiences and opinions. I usually come here for very practical design and product information but I'm very happy, and I feel very enriched, to have read this thread all the way through.

I don't have anything significant to add to the topic at hand so I would like to offer a very short William Carlos Williams poem that is tangentially about kitch.ens but deeply about beauty, selfishness, generosity, and simple pleasure. (And this poem will really work well for you if you've already solved your Refrigerator Choice decision-problem):

This Is Just To Say
by William Carlos Williams (1962)

I have eaten
the plums
that were in
the icebox

and which
you were probably
saving
for breakfast

Forgive me
they were delicious
so sweet
and so cold