Question for all mothers and grandmothers

15 years ago

My grandsons' mother is allowing her live-in boyfriend to get their attention by hitting them on the butt - she calls them love pats - she isn't home when this happens. The boys are 5 and 7. What do you think about this?

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Comments (27)

lydia1959
15 years ago
I'd put a stop to it. It's inappropriate IMO.
socks
15 years ago
Obviously you are uncomfortable with this, and I don't blame you at all. How do you know this takes place when their mother is not at home? Why is it only when she's gone? Possibly because it's more than a "love pat." Do the boys tell her? Is the boys' father your son? Does he know?

Think of it--mom has taken in a man who is basically a stranger to the boys, and he hits them.

I realize you have little or no control over this, and I'm sorry for your distress.
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azzalea
15 years ago
You're going to get a lot of different responses. You're going to have to weed through and see which ones make the most sense to YOU.

for myself? I believe that ALL hitting, spanking, 'taps' done for the sake of discipline are child abuse. I was hit as a child, and I swore I would NEVER do that to someone else. It's degrading, it's painful--more mentally painful than physical, even--and it teaches children that problems can be solved by violence. It teaches that the bigger guy, who can hit harder or overpower wins--that promotes bullying, when a child who feels powerless at home, finds he can overpower someone weaker. Violence--even 'mild' violence (I'm not sure there is such a thing, but I'll allude to the 'taps' that way for the sake of discussion) just perpetuates violence. It also doesn't really teach. When I raised my dd, I never made her punishments pointless. They were always lessons, designed to teach her why what she did was wrong, what she could have done that would have been better, and gave her the incentive to change her behavior in a positive manner. And you know what? She's in her late 20's, and thanks me frequently for the upbringing she had. Not only that, but almost all her friends have told her and me, on many occasions, that they wished their parents were more like we were. I'm not saying this to blow my own horn, but to demonstrate that there ARE child-raising alternatives that work, that don't demean children, that don't teach THEM to hit their children when they're the big guy.

Even more importantly--this woman is allowing a boyfriend--Not even someone with ANY real or legal authority over her children, to abuse them.

Put me down for voting that it's child abuse, and no woman should ever allow a boyfriend to hit, beat, or even tap her children. Hey, a mother has to put her children's education--academic, moral and ethical--first--she shouldn't even HAVE a live-in boyfriend if she has minor children. Yes, I have extremely high standards of morality--you don't have to agree with me. But you asked for opinions. That's mine and I will absolutely stick to it.
samkaren
15 years ago
Too many times the innocent "love pat" has turned into something worse. Sounds like abuse to me...put a stop to it immediately.

SamKaren
your resident DJ
hayjud_mn
15 years ago
If it is something that he would not do in front of the mother then it is most likely wrong!

Otherwise the children could very well be trying to stretch the limits, to see how far out-of-bounds they can go with the new guy. That is normal for children to do, and a swat on the backside can get their attention, if that is what is needed.
JMHO
kayjones
Original Author
15 years ago
Thank you all for your input. I don't believe in hitting children for any reason - this just is tearing my heart out.

The childrens' mother defends her boyfriend at all costs. He's on probation for a drinking offense, for two years, and seems to always have a drink in hand. She just adores him and thinks he's wonderful.

I am powerless to do anything - she is so very head-strong, she is trying to start her own cleaning business and is home only to get them off to school, then gone until dinner, 7 days a week. I just don't get the whole thing.
Granlan_TX
15 years ago
It appears this man is an alcoholic and treating the little boys like they were men....wrong, wrong, wrong on so many levels.

The woman allowing this man to be in their presence is in the wrong, too.
stargazzer
15 years ago
Sure it's just a love pat, just like my uncles were just teasing when they twist our arms or fail to catch us when we jumped off the high porch expecting him to be there. I think it's a sign to come and I don't think there is anything you can do.
stargazzer
15 years ago
I wanted to add, I don't think there is anything you can do without losing the right to see the kids. I would keep an eye on them and call the authority if you see any bruises. Usually abusers don't cause bruises where they can be seen. Another very important thing to watch for is if the kids are kept in the house and not allowed out. That usually means they are hiding bruises.
kayjones
Original Author
15 years ago
Your opinions help me cope with this - Amber and her mother are trying to make me see that I am wrong about this. Thanks for being here for me.
Adella Bedella
15 years ago
I believe in spanking, but that is something that only my dh or I are allowed to do and we don't do it often. I think that it's wrong for non family members to be using that as a method of disipline or to get the child's attention. Your ds needs to step in if he can.
jel48
15 years ago
A 'love pat' on the bottom could also be sexual in nature. That would worry me probably even more.
mariend
15 years ago
As you are concerned, you should be you might talk to social services. Here you can "swat" a child 3 times (hand only) but if it leaves a mark, then it could be child abuse. Are you sure she is doing cleaning all day? Most people cleaning houses are not gone all day, every day. Are the boys complaining to you or do you see marks? Sounds like the boy friend is not working and where does he get the money for the beer? But then with my big mouth and temper I would let her know you will do something
lydia1959
15 years ago
I was thinking along the same lines as jel48.
caroline94535
15 years ago
Oh he!! no.

No man, who not their father, would ever, ever, ever be living in my house while I had children living there. No way, no how. Not ever.

And no man, no matter even if he was their father, would ever, ever, ever hit my child.

Love pats, he!!.

Don't people watch the news? If he doesn't wind up beating them to death (It happend to my nephew. His mother (not my sister) had a "boyfriend;" they both beat the 18-month old to death. He got life without parole; she got 14 years) then he'll wind up molesting them.

No way, no how. If I were a mother (I thank God I'm not!) and I wasn't with the child's father, there is no way another man would ever set foot in my house...not even for a movie or dinner or to borrow a cup of flour.

And this man drinks? I'm sorry, but in my opinion, this mother is a fool and she'll share equal blame for the outcome to these poor, innocent children.

((((Kay Jones)))) I'll keep you and your grandchildren in my prayers.
whidbeykathy
15 years ago
When I found out my son was spanking his stepkids, I went right into orbit. I didn't care how old he was, that was not going to happen as long as I am alive. He wasn't spanked and I sure as heck was not going to let him start with them!

I said if I ever hear they were spanked ever again I would go straight to CPS. I hope I put that fear in him, I have the kids a LOT and they let things slip. But never have they said they have been spanked since. I always ask the 4 year old, she can't keep a secret!

I am firm about NO spanking ever, as I explained to him, all it did was make those kids afraid of him. There are many alternatives to spanking.

Kay you are right and I don't know what it will take to get this behavior changed. I would keep after her that it is NOT acceptable. It also is NOT acceptable for a boyfriend to be babysitting her kids either. That is scary right there! How many times do we see on the news about the boyfriends harming kids ?!
kayjones
Original Author
15 years ago
Kathy, the childrens' other grandmother says I am making it 'more than it really is' - she sent me a scathing email about my actions.
lisa_fla
15 years ago
98% of the time when a child is beaten or shaken to death it is the parents boyfriend!! Love pats is a weird expression to use. That raises a whole new set of red flags.
linda_in_iowa
15 years ago
If I were you, I would notify CPA or DHS or whatever it is called in your state. A boyfriend should not be alone with those kids, especially an alcoholic boyfriend!
whidbeykathy
15 years ago
Kay, you are not making anything more than it is! It's simple. Her boyfriend is drinking, "swatting" the kids and alone with them. Three strikes any way I look at it.

I don't care if the other Grandma says it is not a big deal. She's wrong! You know it is and you have our support. Wouldn't you rather make a big deal NOW rather than saying you wish you had later?

It sure seems your Grandson's Mom is making some poor choices when it comes to the boys. That's the reason I babysit so much for my (step)grandkids, I need to be sure they are safe, it was my easiest solution to it. My son knows I WILL call CPS, but I still keep on top of it.
Call me interfering, but I like to sleep at night knowing those kids are alright. Kathy
mylab123
15 years ago
I don't believe in spanking, but I also think that the only decipline of any kind that takes place should always come from the biological parent ONLY. If step parents have a problem with the child, they need to have the biological parent enforce the decipline of the child - they should never assume that role.

Live in's should not be in charge of or ever left alone with any children other than their own.

Just my take on it.
kayjones
Original Author
15 years ago
Thanks for your input. Her boyfriend has never been a parent.
azzalea
15 years ago
This post has gotten much more serious since I was last here.

I'd suggest, if you're truly concerned and want to make a difference here, you do a couple of things. First, research the laws in your state (they vary greatly from state to state) to see what rights grandparents have. Then, I'd sit down with your lawyer, describe the situation, and get his opinion of what you can and cannot do legally. It's always safest, and makes your position strongest, if you have all the facts before taking any action. Then, depending upon what advice I got, I'd do everything in my power to save these poor children.

I do have one question--maybe I missed you saying something about this? but where is your son in all this? How does he feel about it? what is he willing to do to remedy the situation? The best thing would be for him to step in and take the reins here--he would have the best legal standing, of course, and could probabaly even get custody, if things are truly getting out of hand.

Look, don't worry about what the girl and her mother are saying--abusers ALWAYS think it's okay. I'm guessing that the kids' mother also hits them, from her position on her boyfriend doing it, AND because her mother supports child abuse, she probably was a victim growing up, too. It's a terrible cycle. You may be in a position to get that train off the track so the next generation grows up healthy. If you step in and do something as soon as possible. The very best luck to you and those little ones.
Kathsgrdn
15 years ago
I wouldn't be living with a man while my kids were growing up, unless I was married to him, so it's hard for me to understand. I would never leave my kids, alone with a boyfriend, I know that. What are women thinking?! How many times do you hear about kids getting molested or abused and killed by a boyfriend? The fact that he drinks all the time, if it's true, just makes it worse. Hopefully she will come to her senses and get rid of him. Is the info coming from your grandkids or their father?
susan_on
15 years ago
I agree with Kathleen, 100%. The mother does seem to have poor judgement. Of course we don't have her side of the story, but facts are facts. Just knowing that a guy is living there is showing poor judgement, but add to that, that he drinks and is responsible for discipline? It's a terrible situation.

I don't think we know enough to know if the mother spanks the kids. She may, or she may not. It's possible that she feels "grateful" to have someone in the house to discipline so she doesn't have to do it. Or not. We just don't know from the info posted.

As far as spanking goes.. I think there is a limited use for it, but only rarely, and only by custodial natural parents. This is not what is happening in this situation though.

I also wonder where you son is in all of this . You're in a precarious situation here, because the mother can make your life very difficult. I don't think that seeing a lawyer is a good option if you can avoid it. It will make things messy, expensive, but mostly more contentious. The best thing you can do is to call child protective services if you have concerns about the safety of the children. Don't let input from the mom and her mom influence you.
clubm
15 years ago
I don't agree with it. There are other ways of getting a
childs attention.
kayjones
Original Author
15 years ago
Thanks for your comments, folks - it helps alot.

The kids' mom said she was spanked as a kid, and she said it didn't kill her, says now she appreciates that she was spanked - says it made her a better person. She was raised by her grandmother.

My son, the kids' father, lives in Las Vegas - he and the boys' mother never married. He is an absentee "father", a 'call the cops' type of guy - that's what he called, and told me to do, after he received my voice mail about this incident. I think my son is an idoit (he has a gambling addiction AND works as a poker dealer!)- he's NOT a dad, IMHO - he's an ASS. He thinks that paying child support each month is all he needs to do.

You all are right - there is more to this story than even I know.

I don't think their mother hits them. I don't fear for the boys' safety - it's just that they should not be receiving 'love pats' from anyone, imho.

I don't know how much the boyfriend drinks - I've only been in his presence about four times, but he was drinking all of those times. He came to my house to pick up the kids, was in the car's passenger seat, with an open bottle, and he doesn't currently have a driver's license due to dui. Both their responses, when asked about it, is 'it will be alright'.

I personally know nothing about this man, and it appears I don't know the boys' mother, either.

I researched the child protection laws for my state - grandparents have no rights. I think the only thing I can do is just keep them if and when they (the children) want to stay, and let a babysitter care for them during the after-school hours.

The mother's grandmother lives upstairs from them and I feel she has the kids' best interest at heart - I will pray that she keeps an eye on the kids' well-being.

I am now realizing that I should not have moved from my home in Missouri, to here - this is just heart-sickening.

I appreciate all the opinions on 'love patting' my grandsons, which is what I was looking for. I realize my hands are tied, and I can do nothing. I will have to leave it in God's hands. Please pray for the situation and the kids' well-being. Thanks again, everyone.

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