@cba6777 thanks for this informative post! I was also planning to install ECOwater, until reading your post. Would it be possible to get your contacts as well. Thank you!!

@harish/@cba6777, can you please share how much does installation costed you in getting fleck installed?

@cba6777 thanks for all the info. I was just going to Costco when I read these posts. Glad I came upon this. I too live in Orange County and would greatly appreciate your contacts.

Thanks you all for the info on the post. I'm glad I came upon this as well. I'm in OC Ca, and would like to get all referral information if anyone can send me the message.

I just meet the rep. EcoWater this morning before I read the posts. Besides the pricy unit, the Extremely pushy attitude from the rep. who kept asking me why I cannot sign the contract now made me extremely uncomfortable. She quoted me the most expensive system. After I asked her any lower price point option, she finally gave me the other basic model but kept telling me how bad that unit is. When I asked her how she compare their with others, she gave me no specific answers but refer back to Costco will only choose the best in the industry!!?? It's so hard to believe CostCo will choose a such unprofessional company to work with. Disregard how great the unit will be, I won't deal with them!!!

I suggest you copy your comments into hard copy letter form and send it to the President of Costco. If no one complains, how can Costco become aware of the problem?

I agree with jo168168 regarding the EcoWater rep. She is very pushy and I reported it to the company. She promised a Costco cash card for $1,000 from Costco which is untrue. I contacted Costco and they basically said, if it's not in writing its not true. EcoWater is a good system, we purchased it but their service is terrible.

Pima 74 Thank you for your your suggestion. I will send a letter to the Costco's president.

The Costco EcoWater reps stopped by and I feel the cost is way to high as well. I'm looking at a Fleck 7000 SXT 32k softener withiy built in KDF 55 media to eliminate external carbon filter. . . . when selecting RESINS I need some advice:

High Capacity Resin
Purolite C100
HCR-SS DOW EX
SST-60 Resin ( uses 50% less salt and water)
High capacity 10% crosslink ( more chlorine resistant )

thanks for any input

First - Never, never, never, never, never go with a mixed media or built-in carbon or KDF in a softener. The softener won't backflush properly, the KDF or carbon portion will be egregiously undersized, you will have to change out the media much sooner and it will cost you way more money in the long run. It is a terrible idea.

Second - Since you mention chlorine resistance, I'll assume you have city water, so you want 10% crosslink. Purolite is a high quality brand - can't go wrong there. The SST-60 won't use enough less salt and/or water to justify the premium price.

Third - There are lots and lots of threads on this site about proper softener sizing - read up before making a decision.

Last - If you want your question to get attention, start a new post rather than commenting on an old one.

So overwhelmed on picking a water system. I live Phoenix AZ the water is terrible. I know I want a system but how to choose. Help.. Had Eco come out this morning which cost was less than 2 others that came out. Just want unit to soften water ..less calcium buildup. We already have RO.

I see everyone talking about a fleck system. House is just 1600 Sq ft 2 people.

Clack and Fleck are very well built valves. Flecks can be bought online whereas the Clack only sells online if you know what your looking for. They may call it another type system but it is a Clack valve. Be careful not to buy a Chinese knockoff of the Fleck valve.

@cba6777 thanks for this informative post! I was also planning to install Flecks, until reading your post. Would it be possible to get your contacts as well. Thank you!!

@cba6777 Just sent you a PM asking for your independent supplier. I think you should get a referral fee :) If anyone else can send me those details, please feel free to PM me! Thanks everyone. In my previous home I bought the Costco Ecowater system, and thanks to this post, I won't do it again!

I think it depends on your independent dealer. If you can find a solid trusting dealer who knows what they are doing and talking about you should get great equipment. I googled a EcoWater EEC 1502 because I know that piece of equipiment is crap, it’s cheap, and yeah maybe it does do kinda what it’s suppose to do for a short period of time but, over time it will suck! It will break. However, EcoWater has some great equipment that will do what it’s suppose to do. But you’re gonna have to pay for it. But if your local dealer is invested in their customers you will never go back to another. My local dealer takes care of his customers and bends over backwards to make sure they have the top notch service and equipment. So I definitely think you need to visit your local dealers and strike up a conversation with them. You can tell within minutes of meeting if they know what they are doing or not. A good dealer will be able to tell you the ends and out and then at the end will tell you, check out other local dealers and see what they say. They won’t bad mouth other companies but they won’t talk them up either. They should provide you will all the info you will need and they most definitely should do a water test for you! I’ll stick to EcoWater because my local dealer is great.

I have personally found that salt systems are way over priced and completely out dated. The new salt free water conditioning systems is where its at. King Water filtration is what I am looking at. SO far it seems to be the best all natural unit with the longest complete warranty

"I have personally found that salt systems are way over priced and completely out dated...."

Really?

I briefly looked at the King website and I wouldn't buy a used car from that guy.

He's combining carbon, KDF and some nonsense "multi-polarity magnetic ionization descaler".

I appreciate the feedback. When researching systems, I found that most original systems dating back years and in third world countries use carbon to filter their muddy waters. Is it the website that makes you feel this way? or the combination of the materials used to make the unit ? I appreciate your advice, and I agree salt systems are way over priced especially since you need RO systems to drink with them

I didn't say that ion exchange systems were overpriced. In fact, I think they are mature technology that provide really good value for removing hardness. They do it very well - and are probably the only option for residential use for removing hardness. I got a great 48k grain softener for $550 with a Fleck valve and 10% crosslinked resin. It's very effective (I tested before and after) and I expect I will have many years of service from it,

Carbon filters will reduce taste and odor, as well as chlorine and some voc's. They are also a mature technology.

Combining media in the same unit is usually a very bad idea. Different media require different back washing schedules and volumes. They combined KDF and carbon in that backwashing filter. In addition, the magnetic media sounds like utter BS.

Ion exchange systems do not require an RO system to provide drinking water. Some people prefer to not drink softened water and so they use a carbon filter on unsoftened water for drinking.

RO is a common solution if removing certain chemicals (such as nitrates) is required. Those chemicals are not so common that RO is a given. Most people who have RO don't actually need it.

Jake,

You said that “combining media is the same unit is a bad idea”, this is only partially correct however and can easily create confusion to people doing research.

The downside to “combining” media is when it’s mixed. Mixed media has a tendency to clump up and congeal. This of course would affect the Filtration media’s ability to remove contamination due to lower surface contact time. This also only happens with CERTAIN media types, NOT all

however when the media is separated, such as in the Wayde King Systems, it will never be able to bind together. If fact similar designs have demonstrated to last for millions of gallons of service free performance. Being the average family only uses about 75000-100,000 per year, that is about 15 years and longer of life span.

The King system does not claim to use “magnetic media” as you stated earlier, I think you were confused as the system actually uses a magnetic ionizer. The military, pharmaceutical companies, heavy industry, vacation resorts, golf courses and more have effectively used this technology for hundreds of years to protect their multi billion investments in most cases. That is pretty convincing as It definitely is indicative of effective and beneficial results.

If you read this article by the US Department of Energy: http://www.fractalfield.com/implodermagneticresearch/scalesolution.pdf , it will show how effective magnetic technology is at ionizing and de scaling water to make it safe, healthy and provide Reliable scale inhibiting water.....

Dude, I meant exactly what I said: I'm looking at a slide from their site titled "Features"
in it they show
-KDF media filter
-Carbon media bed
>>"Multi-Polarity Magnetic Ionization Descaler" <<

Now, the first point that you didn't seem to grasp:

KDF has very high backwashing requirements - something on the order of 30 gpm.

Carbon media has different backwashing requirements

You don't want to combine two or more media in the same backwashing unit.

The link you provided is from 1998 - and is referencing industrial water treatment.

So here's the thing: There are two different usernames "Jack Demirjian" and "Adam Kaplan" who both just registered in order to comment on an 8 year old thread and plug a water treatment system. Both posts use really bogus arguments and language that sounds overtly suspicious. "Adam Kaplan" is a username and photo for a Realtor who had some posts on a different website that have nothing to do with water treatment.

I was pretty sure this was spam and a really lame attempt at manipulating social media initially, now I'm sure of it.

I'm done here.

Not spam at all. I am a realtor and I would however recommend you verify your statements as they are lacking greatly in accuracy regarding the backwashing requirements of KDF in non mixed media system.

Its like you are trying to disparage a Hyundai, but speaking about a Tesla. Definitely want to clarify your statements accuracy as they are incorrect because you are speaking on erroneous applications. (I.e a carburetor may be fuel inefficient, but not all cars are bad because some cars, like Tesla’s, use no gasoline at all)

you are simply making a blanket statement without any scientific fact.

This is not an attempt to manipulate anything, it actually was an attempt to take an inaccurate statement and shed some factual light on it so people trying to educate themselves can. No offense was intended as it seems to be you were. I am sorry for that.

Adam - Your claims are contrary to manufacturer tech specs for the specified medias. The media beds in the unit noted above are not deep, nor do they contain adequate volume to be effective. That is a simple fact which has been covered here many times over and which you can easily verify by reading the specs. Your post appeared spammy because it spouted the sales rhetoric from a vendor who also obviously failed to read, understand, and follow manufacturer specs. It's a common mistake in residential water treatment, unfortunately.

I would recommend people do their research by looking at laboratory tests by the NSF and/or the Water Quality Association. If a product is certified by one of these agencies, it probably is a reliable system.

Adam,

It is important to understand what is -- and what is not being tested or certified. For example the system in question says, "the tank and filtration medias have earned NSF certification".

What does that mean exactly?

NSF 42 applies to the minimum standard for reducing aesthetic - non -health related contaminates
NSF 53 and 58 are for lead reduction and RO filters

NSF 61 applies to the materials coming in contact with the water - not the actual effectiveness of the filter.

Unless the assembly is tested, and the certification is for the actual performance of the filter against certain contaminates, then it's easy to be mislead by statements like "the tank and filtration medias have earned NSF certification".

What that probably means is the tank and media meet NSF 61 -- which is good to know that they aren't going to leach dangerous chemicals .. but doesn't tell you much beyond that.

I'm not the one making inaccurate statements:

- I said that you don't want to mix media in a backwashing system because they have different backwashing requirements. KDF, in particular, has significant backwashing requirements. - That is accurate.

- I said that the system claims to use magnetic descaling media (which is accurate) and that sounds like utter BS (opinion, but I stand by it). I know that there is support for scale prevention using magnetic fields in industrial applications. Unless something has changed recently, there isn't support for it in residential systems.

I know that carbon filters can improve taste, odor and reduce some chemicals such as chlorine. I also know that KDF process filters can work, but as AIW has stated, the details matter.

Companies which make "salt-free conditioners" are on thin ice if they make additional claims that go much beyond what a carbon media filter can do.

You do make excellent points. However one last thing I wanted to point out for all whom care. On KDFs own website: http://www.kdfft.com/ it states in the opening paragraph about features of this media. In there it does say it reduces “Heavy Metals, Microorganisms, and Scale”. This is info from the company that makes KDF and I’m sure has more certifications than what you had aforementioned.

i guess he proof is in the putting, whether it be quantative or qualitative. Results are results.

Media, any media, can only do its job when applied correctly. KDF works very well when used according to manufacturer specifications. The unit you are touting here fails to follow those specs.

Adam,

I'm familiar with the website. They are promoting the media - they do not make the finished filters.

We know that carbon filters can remove taste, odor and chlorine - but not all filters that contain carbon do a good job or could pass NSF 42 certification. Similarly, the claims made on the KDF website, I believe, are accurate - but that doesn't mean that any filter using KDF process media will be effective or pass NSF 42 or NSF 53 for lead reduction.

If a filter is certified to NSF 42, 53, 58 or some other applicable standard that demonstrates it will actually perform - that info will likely be very prominent in the advertising and not a vague statement of "NSF Certified". For example: This filter cartridge from Aries contains KDF-55 or KDF-85 and states it is certified to NSF 42 and 61 - we must assume it does not meet the tests for lead reduction. Note also that the capacity in gallons is for the carbon portion of the filter only (the KDF may - or may not - have become ineffective much earlier, if it ever was effective).

Jake, what do you do for a living ?

My background is high-rise and mid-rise building maintenance, multi-unit residential maintenance and renovation of older homes. I have broad (but not always deep) knowledge of electrical, plumbing, HVAC, construction, and energy conservation. My degree is in business and economics.

Total Ripoff. Be very cautious. No satisfaction guarantee offered.

We just bought EcoWater system through Costco and I am now regretting it deeply. I did not do my research because I trust Costco, but this is a total mistake that will destroy our pipes system in the house. Ecowater uses salt as a media to remove hard minerals from your water, but unfortunately this old technology comes with a number of disadvantages:

They require you to regularly replacement of heavy salt bags in order to continue functioning
The salt causes a slippery feeling on your skin in the bath or shower
Older units take 3 gallons of water to produce just 1 gallon of drinking water – the rest goes to waste
Water produced has a slightly acidic pH, which modern medicine agrees can have negative effects on health. Alkaline water is far better for you and your family. It has been a month of total disappointment. The water doesn’t taste good and our skin, hair and shower feels slimy. I called the EcoWater company to find out the the system offers no satisfaction guarantee because they know that their system is the worse mistake you can buy. Save yourself trouble and stay away from this company. I have no idea how Costco can support this company. Such a fraud.

Saltless benefits
Certifies scale prevention
Keeps beneficial minerals
No use if electricity
No waste of water
No monthly maintenance
Eliminates slimy feeling
No yearly operating cost
No need for RO system
No RO operating cost

Salt softener system is the total opposite and in addition, the yearly operating cost can go as high as $566 and the RO operating cost can cost you around $200+. It requires monthly maintenance and the cost of electricity. I wish I did my research. I AM NOW STUCK with the system because there is no satisfaction guarantee. Ugh. Disgusting EcoWater and Costco.

The above may have simply been spam. It quotes talking points from a specific website.

____________

Wow... just wow!

So let's be very clear: The above post is inaccurate, misleading, and wrong. It's typical of someone who "researches" water treatment on the internet. Let's also be very clear that the person above admits to not having even a basic understanding of what they were buying and not doing their homework at all -- and then blames Costco and EcoWater.

Most of the health / aesthetic claims above are just wrong. There is no "salt" in the water - there IS as much sodium as there was hardness in soft water. That amount of sodium is very small - less than a glass of milk, for example. A properly adjusted water softer doesn't leave the skin "slimy".

There is no "salt free" water softening system. Water softening involves replacing calcium and magnesium ions with sodium ions - by definition.

There isn't any "New Technology" that replaces a water softener. There is no system that uses magnets, electro-magnets, coils, etc. that has been proven to reduce scaling in a residential system. None. There are some chemical feed systems that can reduce scaling - but I don't see them commonly in residential systems.

If you want to remove hardness from your residential water, there are just a couple of commonly available technologies to do that:

1. A water softener - A very good choice for most people

2. A RO filter- best used for drinking water when there are chemicals present that can't be removed by other means. RO filters remove just about everything from the water and are generally overkill unless there are specific things that need to be treated.

Reverse Osmosis filters do require filter maintenance and they tend to waste significant amounts of water. Some models offer less waste by piping that to the hot water tank. For these reasons, and because RO water can be aggressive with plumbing, it's best to limit RO water to drinking water. There are some RO filters that re-mineralize the water to make it less aggressive.

There's nothing "wrong" with the ecoWater system. It doesn't use outdated technology or anything like that. Depending on the system, it uses ion an exchange water softener, Reverse Osmosis water filter and carbon filters - all current and proven technology. It's not a "ripoff" or a "fraud" and the above poster should understand that making such claims could result in legal action by the manufacturer and Costco.

Understand I'm not endorsing the product-- in fact, I'm not a big fan of these types of systems in general. I tend to think they are overpriced and unnecessary. However, It doesn't deserve that kind of criticism.

A quick search of the "$566 in operating costs" reveals that the above poster is regurgitating "information" from a specific website selling "salt-free" softeners almost word for word. Again - all very misleading and inaccurate. My water softener (typical) uses less than $1 a year in electricity and about $60 in salt. Your mileage may vary, as they say... but $566 is a gross exaggeration.

Yes, you should understand what you are buying - including what is needed for maintenance. And if someone tries to sell you on "salt-free" water "conditioning" you should be very skeptical.

I agree with most of what you have said and agree the other poster was wrong on mostly everything. I am also not a big fan of EcoWater systems and they are way over priced for what you are getting. As to the annul cost for a water softener, I find for a family of 4 the salt cost is around $78. An RO if its a good one you should be changing the filters every 18 months for around $80-$100. Non salt systems don`t work and are a waste of money, if they did I would be selling them. Aspen Water Solutions

Not sure this answered the guys question but simply. Don’t buy this system. It sucks and expensive

Given the question was asked 6 years ago, I think it's safe to assume that he's moved on - one way or another.

First - Never, never, never, never, never go with a mixed media or built-in carbon or KDF in a softener. The softener won't backflush properly, the KDF or carbon portion will be egregiously undersized, you will have to change out the media much sooner and it will cost you way more money in the long run. It is a terrible idea.

I know this thread is old, but can anyone comment if the following system is one that we don't want to go with based upon the reasoning above (or for some other reason):

https://www.watercare.com/products/softeners/caresoft-elite-rc.html

Its split tank technology combines high-performance media with activated carbon all in one tank.

We have hard water in our area (12 gpg) and will also use a reverse osmosis system. Our local dealer is recommending the system above, but not sure if this is considered to be 'mixed media' or not given that they are separated in the tank. The resin comes with a lifetime warranty.

Our other option is Culligan, which is a little cheaper in price, but seems will cost us more in the long run given proprietary system and expensive labor rate for house calls.

Thank you!

So best to start a new thread. This would be a mixed media filter.

Why are those your options?

Start a new post and talk about what you are trying to do.

Thanks, started a NEW THREAD

I wondered if the quoted $5,000 cba6777 got was for ** Whole Home Filtration Systems ** ?

See the new thread for the answer.

Hey "Jake the Wonder dog" what Water softener do you recommend? I am in Phx AZ and want to find a provider to have it professionally install and a RO also. I was thinking about eco water but the views have been horrible.

I used a Fleck based softener from Amazon for about $600.

I think you can get a decent R/0 unit for $400

Get a Clack, it’s the best system available and the most reliable providing the highest quality water. If you buy a system from amazon and then pay someone to install it and it doesn’t work correctly then you have to pay someone to disconnect it and then pay them to reconnect the new one. Get it from a local professional who will test your water and recommend the right system for you.

Any advice of a reputable provider ?

Can email me , jack@affintiyhts.com

i have a few great systems.

email does not work

Jack@affinityhts.com Sorry miss spelled

Email me and I will give you a quality water pro in your area. steve@aspenwatersolutions.com

Please order a www.ShellWaterSystem.com save your$$$.

Looking at purchasing an Encore Reveal all in one softner, moved to Arizona from Oregon , this decesion is so confusing with multiple softners?

I didn't see an "all in one" model on their website.

Municipal or well water?

What are the results of your water lab tests?

What are you trying to accomplish?

Terrible company caused $67,000 and counting in damages in 2021. Never helped us clean uip after the reverse osmosis filter blew the same day as it was installed causing kitchen family room living room and front foyer to flood. When we called for help to clean up they ignored us we have been living with mold for over a year and it looks like we may have to sue! Long story if you want to see a review on another site go to Yelp. Its a nightmare!